Thread: MU-Sofia what's next after graduating?

Hello I'm George and I will be in the 1st year in MU-sofia this year.First of all ValueMD has been a great help for me and I wanna thank you all .The reasons I'm going in sofia are mostly financial and because it's a four hour drive from home (Not that the distance would stop me from going to a better or a 50 state approved uni).Anyway I was thinking about what happens next,since I am a EU citizen it would be really smart to continue residency/work in the European Union although if somebody wants to go beyond that maybe U.S or AUS what happens?Apart from being worth it or not is there any chance that somebody could succeed doing his/her residency and finally work in the U.S or AUS for example? I know there are a lot of threads out there that it's better to stay in the EU especially for me that I am a EU citizen although but is there really any chance for somebody like me ,for a mu-sofia grad to go there?Always considering that you do give your best .

Thanks in advance !

Yes, there are definitely MU-S grads working in the US and Canada. No, it is not easy to get there, and it will be getting substantially harder over the course of the coming 4-5 years... especially if you need a visa. However, people do get there from here (or else I wouldn't be here in the first place).

It will likely be a lot easier for you to get hired in the EU for your specialty training, but if you take the USMLE exams while you are studying at MU-S you can also apply for the US... and/or the MCQ exams to apply for Canada. However, note that Canada is absolutely brutal for overseas grads, even Canadian citizens. The numbers of foreign grads who get a training position there are incredibly small. Most Canadians I know who study in Europe -- but wish to eventually work back home in Canada -- are trying to get a residency position in the US, complete their training there, and then move back to Canada to work. The numbers of foreign grads to match into a residency in the US are around 50% overall... the numbers in Canada are much, much, MUCH less than that.

There are currently training positions available in Australia and New Zealand, but you must have three years of experience after medical school before applying, and you must be in Australia or New Zealand in order to apply. There are recruiters who can help with that when the time comes, if you are interested in that option.

Remember, too, that this is all accurate information as of right now. 2012. You will not graduate for another six years, and the situation could be (likely WILL be) completely and utterly different by then. So, with that in mind, stay abreast of the rules and requirements in the areas where you would like to train and work in the future WHILE you are in medical school, because 6th year is no time to be trying to figure all of that crap out.

You really will need to give your best while you are in medical school, because merely taking what is given to you is NOT going to be enough. It will take a lot of outside work and effort to be prepared for the USMLE exams if you want to have a shot at the US. It will take a lot of outside work to be able to speak an EU language fluently enough to get hired there, if that is what you decide to do. Be prepared, don't slack off, work hard, and find some serious students with similar goals to be your work/study partners, if possible.

Good luck.

Originally Posted by devildoc8404

Yes, there are definitely MU-S grads working in the US and Canada. No, it is not easy to get there, and it will be getting substantially harder over the course of the coming 4-5 years... especially if you need a visa. However, people do get there from here (or else I wouldn't be here in the first place).

It will likely be a lot easier for you to get hired in the EU for your specialty training, but if you take the USMLE exams while you are studying at MU-S you can also apply for the US... and/or the MCQ exams to apply for Canada. However, note that Canada is absolutely brutal for overseas grads, even Canadian citizens. The numbers of foreign grads who get a training position there are incredibly small. Most Canadians I know who study in Europe -- but wish to eventually work back home in Canada -- are trying to get a residency position in the US, complete their training there, and then move back to Canada to work. The numbers of foreign grads to match into a residency in the US are around 50% overall... the numbers in Canada are much, much, MUCH less than that.

There are currently training positions available in Australia and New Zealand, but you must have three years of experience after medical school before applying, and you must be in Australia or New Zealand in order to apply. There are recruiters who can help with that when the time comes, if you are interested in that option.

Remember, too, that this is all accurate information as of right now. 2012. You will not graduate for another six years, and the situation could be (likely WILL be) completely and utterly different by then. So, with that in mind, stay abreast of the rules and requirements in the areas where you would like to train and work in the future WHILE you are in medical school, because 6th year is no time to be trying to figure all of that crap out.

You really will need to give your best while you are in medical school, because merely taking what is given to you is NOT going to be enough. It will take a lot of outside work and effort to be prepared for the USMLE exams if you want to have a shot at the US. It will take a lot of outside work to be able to speak an EU language fluently enough to get hired there, if that is what you decide to do. Be prepared, don't slack off, work hard, and find some serious students with similar goals to be your work/study partners, if possible.

Good luck.

Devildoc first I want to say once again thank you for your time and your words.I really appreciate your help and that you do share your opinion with us.I am really interested going out of europe and I am determined to do my best cause to me there is really no chance again it's my shot and it's now.I used to be studying computer science & networks in Greece (Never managed to pass the exams to medicine but passed in a variety of different uni's)after 2 years I did a research with a colleague made a presentation and was offered a scholarship in the university of melbourne in Australia although due to financial and family issues I did not succeed to set off for the land down under.I ended up losing a year of my life doing nothing and thought I would follow what I really wanted from the beginning and here I am.So being here means everything to me , I will study hard during and after and will keep studying forever if thats what it takes to succeed.I do understand that it is really early for me to "plan" things although as you said I don't want to reach last year with none action taken.I was wondering though what is the best time to start studying for the USMLE or any other licence exam and what year should I apply ?To be honest I've been always attracted by the U.S and Aus.I'll try to gather as much information as possible and I'll try to be updated as much either.I really want to wish you all the best devildoc and to everyone here.

Thanks in advance

Start reviewing/studying USMLE stuff from Day 1. I would recommend using "First Aid for the USMLE Step 1" in every class where it has relevance so that you know you are focusing your study on material that will be on the USMLE. (You will need to learn other stuff, as well, for the university exams... but that is just reality.) You cannot take Step 1 until after Year-III, so you will have plenty of time to prepare if you manage things correctly.

Steps 2CK and 2CS can be taken any time thereafter. While Steps 1 and 2CK are offered in Europe, Step 2CS can only be taken in the US (check out the ECFMG website for details), so you may need a visa to be able to take that portion of the USMLE.

Unfortunately, Year-VI at MU-S lasts ±16 months (!!!) so you will not graduate until January. If(f) your USMLE Steps are completed by the September before you graduate, then you can apply for the US residency match at that time. If you are successful and match into a position, then you will begin your residency in the US ±6 months after you graduate from MU-S.

I don't know how the process works in Australia/New Zealand, but according to recruiters there you would need 3 years of clinical experience after graduation before becoming eligible for residency training there, anyway.

Originally Posted by devildoc8404

Start reviewing/studying USMLE stuff from Day 1. I would recommend using "First Aid for the USMLE Step 1" in every class where it has relevance so that you know you are focusing your study on material that will be on the USMLE. (You will need to learn other stuff, as well, for the university exams... but that is just reality.) You cannot take Step 1 until after Year-III, so you will have plenty of time to prepare if you manage things correctly.

Steps 2CK and 2CS can be taken any time thereafter. While Steps 1 and 2CK are offered in Europe, Step 2CS can only be taken in the US (check out the ECFMG website for details), so you may need a visa to be able to take that portion of the USMLE.

Unfortunately, Year-VI at MU-S lasts ±16 months (!!!) so you will not graduate until January. If(f) your USMLE Steps are completed by the September before you graduate, then you can apply for the US residency match at that time. If you are successful and match into a position, then you will begin your residency in the US ±6 months after you graduate from MU-S.

I don't know how the process works in Australia/New Zealand, but according to recruiters there you would need 3 years of clinical experience after graduation before becoming eligible for residency training there, anyway.

I see so from day 1 I should start studying for the USMLE too.I see that the year VI lasts 16 months although I have an issue with the greek army which is not optional in Greece and you are forced to serve for a year I'll see what I can do.There are the pros and cons on serving the army one of the bad things is that you lose a year from your academic studies although if you have already graduated they recruit you as a MD and you do get some experience.So you have to be over 3rd year to take the 1st step if I'm not mistaken that means there is plenty of time.I want to plan things the best I can.I'll try to contact MDs from Australia/NZ to see how things work there too.Thanks once again devildoc

Also I would like to ask something else in order to get your license you have to go through USMLE exams but in which states? I mean let's assume you pass the 3 steps then in which state can you apply for residency ? Which states recognize MU-Sofia?

MU-Sofia's English program is accepted in most of the US (40+ states). However, the English program has NOT been reviewed by California, so it is currently not accepted there or in any of the states that use the California Medical Board's list. That list seems to fluctuate from time to time. Presently Vermont, Arkansas, New Mexico, South Dakota, Tennessee, and a few other states follow the California list to some degree or other -- you seriously will need to check with each state to make sure when the time comes.

(Note that the Bulgarian language program at MU-Sofia is fully approved by California and all 50 states, which is funny because the curricula are essentially identical. Regardless, those are the rules.)

Yeah... I know it seems like "plenty of time," but it isn't. Prepare early, work hard, and don't take the USMLE Steps late. It's a huge pain in the butt.

If you want information about working/training in Australia I would not contact Aussie MDs. The likelihood that they know anything accurate or current about foreign doctors coming to work/train there is pretty slim. I would recommend contacting medical recruiters who work with bringing doctors to Australia regularly, because they know both the medical and the immigration side of the issue, and both are equally important. You might be qualified out the wazoo, and have your medical diploma accepted, and everything... but if you can't get yourself through immigration, you can't bloody well work there!

(That is the problem in England for someone like me, for example, if I wanted to train in England. I will have an EU diploma, I have a pretty decent CV, and I speak English fluently... but because I am a non-EU citizen I have zero chance of getting to work there as a doctor due to British immigration laws. Just an example.)

FWIW, one very informative medical recruiter for both Australia and New Zealand can be found at Doctor Jobs and Locum Recruitment in New Zealand and Australia.

I see, let's hope that in the future the english programme will be reviewed and become equal to the bulgarian one cause as you said and as I have heard the curricula are almost identical.I'll start preparing for the usmle from the very first days and thank you for warning me about that.It's true as I mentioned in the past I had to do the paperwork to set off for AUS as a student back then and yes it was a pain in the butt although it wasn't non achieveable .I really didn't think of that aspect that aus md's wouldn't guide me, and thanks for giving me this tip , you are right I will try to contact recruiters.I have the ambition I'm willing to give everything .You can't imagine what those words mean to me devildoc .Thanks again (Blagodarya mnogo from the little bulgarski I've learned during my 5 months stay )

I am sorry to tell you that the English program at MU-S will not get CA approval. They most certainly COULD get it, if they would just apply, but that would require the administration filling out a lot of paperwork, plus an actual investment of time and resources. Unfortunately, the cultural (Balkan) and institutional (MU-S) inertia here make that a virtual impossibility. That doesn't even take into account the fact that the review process by CA is currently running into YEARS from application to approval.

Don't bank on it. If you come here to the English program, mentally cross California off your list of future practice locations. That way, if some sort of miracle happens and they get their crap together enough to apply for it, and approval is granted, then it will be a very lovely surprise.

(И няма нищо, Георгмайсър!)

Just on the New Zealand point,
I believe there is quite a shortage of doctors there and its a great place to work apparently.Cost of living is quite low.
Not sure why more people dont consider this option,coming from eastern europe.

Originally Posted by devildoc8404

I am sorry to tell you that the English program at MU-S will not get CA approval. They most certainly COULD get it, if they would just apply, but that would require the administration filling out a lot of paperwork, plus an actual investment of time and resources. Unfortunately, the cultural (Balkan) and institutional (MU-S) inertia here make that a virtual impossibility. That doesn't even take into account the fact that the review process by CA is currently running into YEARS from application to approval.

Don't bank on it. If you come here to the English program, mentally cross California off your list of future practice locations. That way, if some sort of miracle happens and they get their crap together enough to apply for it, and approval is granted, then it will be a very lovely surprise.

(И няма нищо, Георгмайсър!)

Originally Posted by bitebullet1

Just on the New Zealand point,
I believe there is quite a shortage of doctors there and its a great place to work apparently.Cost of living is quite low.
Not sure why more people dont consider this option,coming from eastern europe.

I really have no idea why, I would go anywhere in order to make my dreams come true, new zealand looks beautiful and besides australia is minutes away...Some greek friends that have been in hobart NZ for more than 2 decades told me that life is great there.Would love to go...I think that as long as you give your best sky's the limit