can we please have a non-hijacked thread for pete's sake!

for those interested in Australia:
Oz has two "streams" of medical education: the 6-year undergraduate program and the 4-year graduate-entry program (GEMP). The GEMP seems to be the more popular with international students, and is offered by fewer schools for a total of around 150 places nationally. Entry requires scoring well in your undergraduate study (GPA >6.0-5.0 on a 7.0 scale) and on the admissions exam (GAMSAT for locals and GAMSAT or MCAT for internationals.) The graduating degree is MBBS, or Bachelor of Medicine/Bachelor of Surgery, which is the degree equivalent to the US MD or British MChB designating a medical graduate without higher doctoral training. (MD programs in Australia exist as a higher doctorate course designed for MBBS graduates and essentially constitute getting a PhD in medicine.)

The GEMPs have been compared with US programs, and while one cannot be described as "superior" to the other, there are substantial differences that you should take into account if considering Australian study. Most of these stem from cultural differences. If you come to study here, you'll probably spend a semester getting used to a very different education style and should be prepared for scoring lower than you expect (and certainly lower than locals) on your first exams. With some effort you will be fine. Most importantly, bear in mind that Australian medical schools do not cater to American or other foreign student, so schools will not "teach to the test" with regards to the USMLE and other exams. However, graduating classes have shown a high (>90%) pass rate on the USMLE, and most who want to can successfully match in the United States.

When deciding where to attend school, I think it's important to be aware that your success depends on you, not on where you go. I've found Australian medical students to be as competent , successful, and hard-working as American medical students, and I assume Caribbean students as well. If you opt for Australia, you'll be setting yourself up for having to work harder and score better than some US graduates in order to match in the US, but this is possible and often done.

please do not troll this thread, and if someone begins trolling, for pete's sake ignore them and say something intelligent about nobel prizes or talk to me about research or combined degrees or something else productive instead.

US students might want to be careful with entering a 6 year program directly from high school. There are some US states that require you to have at least 3 years of undergraduate credits to get licensed. Though the 6 year programs are truly equivalent to four year US MD programs, they are just stretched out in terms of time. The four year programs usually assume you are competent in science before you enter, the GAMSAT is a measure of your scientific aptitude, and from what I have seen of admission statistics, the vast majority of students here were Science or Health majors during their undergraduate years. My roomate studied nursing before she enrolled in U of Q.

Couple of minor corrections:

GAMSAT is more of an aptitude test than the MCAT and is taken by many non-science students (for example, UQ, one of the pickier w/ GAMSAT scores, is somewhere around 20-25% non-science students).

There are now just about as many grad as undergrad programs. I believe the exhaustive list is:

grad:
Flinders
Griffith
UQ
Notre Dame
UWA (also undergrad)
USyd
ANU
Melbourne (also undergrad)

undergrad:
Adelaide
JCU
UWA (also grad)
Tasmania
Newcastle
UNSW
Melbourne (also grad)
Monash
Bond

It's also important to get both sides of the story from other Aussie students to get a more accurate picture:

Which corroborates the research findings:

"2.11 Studies on Australian medical graduates show serious deficiencies in clinical skills. For example, a University of Queensland study published in 1995 indicates that at the commencement of the intern year, medical staff did not consider all graduates competent even in history-taking and clinical-examination skills and most graduates were not considered competent in such areas as diagnosis, interpreting investigations, treatment procedures and emergency procedures. At the conclusion of the intern year, only 45 per cent of medical staff considered all interns competent at history-taking and only 36 per cent of medical staff considered all interns competent at physical examination. In view of such studies, it is clear that overseas-trained doctors are examined at a higher standard than Australian graduates. In the author's case, the fact that the AMC persistently fails him raises the additional question of whether he is being penalized for taking his case to the HREOC"

Jabroni, they asked for a non-hijacked thread. You are very disruptive to this forum. Please stop. G

__________________
AUC Class of '99
Bored certified
I may be a jerk, but I'm a Jedi jerk like my father.

Some say I look like Buzz Lightyear....
(They're right)

DISCLAIMER: I have no financial stake in ValueMD, or any medical school.

George, I am showing info on what another forum member (who is an Aussie student) has said as well as corroborating research findings. Please tell me how I am being "very disruptive" as my previous post was within the TOS guidelines.
thank you

See other threads in the forum. G

__________________
AUC Class of '99
Bored certified
I may be a jerk, but I'm a Jedi jerk like my father.

Some say I look like Buzz Lightyear....
(They're right)

DISCLAIMER: I have no financial stake in ValueMD, or any medical school.

for myself i can't say whether "passive learning" exists or not, but i've found australian undergraduate study to be much more self motivated: lecturers hand you information, hand you opportunities, and let it be up to you to take it. you can get by--with mediocrity--doing only what is asked of you, but the standout and achieving students take what is given to them and pursue it eagerly of their own accord.

this is different from american education styles in which students are regularly tested to ensure that they're retaining information. this can be a good thing as it prevents anyone from falling behind. but, it can also be a problem if you are an individual learner who prefers your own manner of studying things, and if you happen to get hung up by any personal matter, you might miss a major assignment. the australian appoach stands back from that constant testing, and says, well, if you can hack it during your final exams, great; if not, stiff bickies. if you are someone who needs someone on your back and a very structured environment to help you learn, australian study may not be your best bet. if you are intrinsically motivated and are able to take the initiative yourself, you can do well in the australian system. it's up to the student to take the opportunities presented to them.

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