Originally Posted by ###

This is in response to dr_bum's comments.

You are confounding a lot of separate issues:

1) quality of Australian education
2) cost
3) ability to get PR or practice in Australia
4) compensation for Australian doctors
4) loan availability
5) ability to return to country of origin

Let me address these in turn:

Immigration issues Most people want to return to their country of origin (US or Canada) so immigration issues are a concern to a relatively small subset of students. And, even if it is difficult to stay in Australia, the option (however unlikely) is still a benefit relative to the caribbean. I am not aware of anyone who wants to stay and practice in Grenada or Dominca. This issue is a red herring.

Canadians are a special category -- my understanding is that they have difficulties returning to Canada no matter where they go to school. Thus, Australia is no worse in this regard than any other alternative. I believe most Canadians end up doing residencies in the US irrespective of where they go to school. Thus, this is the same whether they go to Australia or the carib.

Cost - Australian schools are still cheaper than most carib schools. Because of the decline of the dollar, they are no longer the bargain they once were but they are still competitively priced relative to carib schools.

USMLE preparation. Some people say that Australian schools don't provide a solid education for the USMLE. While it is true that Australian schools are not USMLE oriented, it is not difficult to fill in the gaps and most students do so. Very few Australian students fail the USMLE. I got a 249 which suggests that my training was adequate. I know other people with similar scores. Also, I seriously doubt that I would have done better had I gone to the caribbean.

PBL - Some people consider PBL a disadvantage and others consider it an advantage. It is important to select what is best for you. PBL is effective for some people. In my case, I did a semester at SGU and found that the lectures were an absolute waste of time -- so I rarely went to class. I rarely attended lectures in Australia either. I don't find med school lectures helpful but I recognize this is an individual preference. If you learn best by lectures you should go to a lecture based school. Otherwise, a PBL school can be a good alternative. It is important to know how you learn and to choose the right school. PBL is not right for everyone and you need to do what is effective for you. I am not really sure whether PBL or lecture makes much of a difference. At the end of the day it is between you and the books.

Loan availabiliy All the Australian schools have are eligible for Stafford loans. I believe there are only 3 carib schools that are eligible for Stafford loans. Australian students are also eligible for other sources, similar to carib students. There is no significant difference between Australian schools and carib schools with respect to financing.

Residency I will agree that getting back to the US is a little more complicated from Australia compared to the carib. Carib schools have clinicals in the US which is a (slight) advantage and carib students are a little more connected to the US system. Once again, this is similar to the USMLE in the sense that it presents a few extra hurdles, but nothing insurmountable. While there may be some vocal exceptions, students from here generally do well.

Licensure Unlike many carib grads, Australian grads have no limitations with respect to licensure. Thus, Australian schools are similar to the established carib schools (SGU, Ross, AUC) in this respect.

There are a few minor advantages to Australian schools:

location - this goes without saying. I would not choose a school based on location but, other things being equal, it is hard to beat Australia. Living here has been a wonderful experience.

research - unlike carib schools, the Australian schools are research universities which means that you have opportunities to become involved in research -- which can be a signicant advantage when applying for residencies. This is easily available to those who have the interest. For example, I will add a few papers to my CV during my stay here.

joint degrees - some of the Australian schools have reasonably strong departments in other areas that provide opportunities for joint degrees. For example, I am doing a joint degree in Clinical Epidemiology. These options are either not available or attractive (due to concerns of cost and quality) at carib schools.

Overall, my experience has been very positive. In my case, by switching from SGU, I saved a pile of money (about 90k) and, so far, I am quite satisfied with the outcomes (249 USMLE, publications, joint degree). Obviously, Australian schools are not for everyone; however, for the right person, I think they are a very attractive alternative to the caribbean. Obviously, the acid test is residency placement. I believe that residency placement will be much like the USMLE -- there may be a bit of extra work compared to the carib route, but nothing insurmountable. I am pretty optimistic about my chances.

While I would hardly claim that Australian schools are perfect, I have been generally satisfied with my education here. I also have the unique perspective of having attended both a carib school and an Australian school -- so I can speak with confidence about the differences. I agree that the established carib schools are a reasonable choice; however, I would hardly say that they are clearly superior to Australian schools. For others, the carib may be a better choice. I think the established carib schools and Australian schools are both reasonable choices. In my particular case, coming to Australia was a good decision. For others such as dr-bum, the carib may be a better option. Both groups of schools are acceptable and neither group of schools (carib or Australian) is dominant across all criteria.

Originally Posted by ###

You have a couple of issues here: 1) medical school 2) mph program

Medical school: If you have a choice, I would certainly choose Australia over Mexico. I would also choose one of the established carib schools (SGU, Ross, AUC, Saba) over Mexico.

MPH program: I am not sure why you are doing this. Are you doing because you are interested or to improve your chances to get into medical school? I don't think the MPH will have much of an impact on your chances for admission. Undergrad gpas and MCATs are the biggest factors both in Australia and the US. Graduate gpas weigh very little, if at all. Although some people take this route in the US, I would be careful about doing an MPH to get into medical school. Don't get me wrong -- I have nothing against an MPH (I am doing a degree in Public Health myself); however, I would question its value with regard to med school admission.

I don't know much about the UQ MPH program. While I would generally would generally recommend doing your MPH in the US, I have been reasonably satisfied with the School of Public Health programs here at U of Sydney.

You might consider the following plan:
Plan A: Apply to Australian schools. If you get in, then reevaluate interest in MPH.
Plan B: If you don't get in to Australia, go to carib.
Plan C: Mexico