I consider myself a person highly influenced by the PEOPLE around me. When I am surrounded by hardcore people driving to achieve, I perform better. I did not find this dynamic at Sydney University. As for the physical ENVIRONMENT: Yes, I lived comfortably. I bought a nice new apartment near campus; travelled very frequently and comfortably, etc. I wanted more, though. I wanted to be part of a demanding intellectual culture

...........................

I was admitted to a top three Caribbean school but I chose Australia for a number of reasons. The environment of the Caribbean schools are highly competitive and they often have high attrition. I didn't want to take this risk and be stuck with sizeable student loan debts. The cost of attending school in Australia is lower and the quality of life is better. I already hold Australian PR, so I am saving a substantial amount of money on tuition. With a PR I have a substantial safety net, if I don't find a residency in the States, I can work in Australia, which is not a bad choice. The odd thing is that with the longer vacations that Australians get (5 weeks in Oz versus only 2 in the US) I have more opportunities to see my family back home in the States.

This is the first qualification I've seen you make that for me adds some credibility to your many otherwise rigidly dogmatic statements -- yes, if you are not an independent learner, if you cannot motivate yourself to do your top work, then Oz is not for you. Such is required here, particularly where much basic science required for USMLE I needs to be learned on your own (or in groups w/ others who want to do US res). There is a whole lotta cooperation among students who want it, but there is no hand-holding, there is no spoon-feeding, there is no competitive environment to fall back on for those who need it.

If you were to qualify (and personalize) each of your "issue" statements with that admission, few would argue with you.

-pitman

It is also important to realise that most Australian students in graduate medicine already have degrees in science. I personally have a double degree (5 years) in Exercise Physiology and Medical Biochemistry (with several years of professional clinical experience) and a majority of my classmates have similar qualifications. Therefore I do not see the lack of basic science in our graduate course as a disadvantage. For those who do not have a degree in science it is up to them to make the extra effort to ensure they obtain this knowledge. Our assessment is not the piece of cake people are suggesting, if you do not have the necessary knowledge you will fail.

I'm really not sure why those of you who have never attended an Indian Medical School feel the need to trash them as well as Indian doctors.

I am an Internist, born and raised in the USA, but who went to medical school in India. I will tell you, from experience, that you get what you take from an Indian Med School. If you study hard and are motivated, you can get a great education. On the other hand, if you want to slack off and just slide by, you'll probably be able to do so without confrontation. And, although the curricullum is in English, the fact that most of the patients speak only local languages can be an obstacle.

There are a multitude of factors that cause Indian doctors to come to the US. But to say that they are all inferior to Australian doctors is ridiculous, insulting and RACIST. Claiming that Indian doctors are superior to Australian ones is just as prejudiced and biggoted.

Medicine is a vast, complicated and continuously advancing field. We, as doctors. are part of a global community. We are, each of us only as good as we try to be, regardles of nationality or ethnicty.

You are an idiot.
Higher attrition at Carrib, but consider total # of incoming students. Just numbers don't mean anything.

.................................

At UQ, we decel about 3% per year (e.g., last year, our class: 7 out of 310; class above us: 8/~260).

Last year our class lost 3 domestic students -- 0 out of 27 int'l students -- to attrition (1% total). The rate goes down with successive year of med.

-pitman

I think Pitman is great. He is (or she is, i don't know the gender) the one person who has no innate reason to choose or defend the Australian medical schools yet he (she) does. I'll be honest, i'm from Melbourne and i was educated in Melbourne so i do have a bias (i did do a post doc at Stanford - i have a green card and i live in the US) and i find some of the comments on this group completely offensive.

Many people have already posted many reasons why doctor_with_no_country/DrBum is (are) full of crap, but here is why i think doctor_with_no_country is really a doctor_with_no_brain.

First of all, lets look at The (London) Times higher education supplement's list of top 100 biomedicine universities. Now this publication really has no reason to favor Australian over Canadaian over US universities, it's a British publication. So, here is Exhibit A, a shortened (english speaking only) list of top biomedical universities (the usnews list doesn't have the intenational focus) in the world which have medical schools.

1 Harvard University US 200.00 32.2
2 Cambridge University UK 179.39 26.3
3 Oxford University UK 165.32 25.6
4 Imperial College London UK 139.28 14.4
5 Stanford University US 133.05 30.1
6 Johns Hopkins University US 116.48 26.3
8 Yale University US 90.95 27.4
10 University of California, San Diego US 78.84 29.1
14 University of Melbourne Australia 63.09 12.3
15 University of Sydney Australia 62.65 11.5
17 Duke University US 57.95 22.6
18 University of California, San Francisco US 57.82 29.2
19 University College London UK 57.56 20.5
20 University of Toronto Canada 57.54 18.3
21 Edinburgh University UK 55.87 20.1
22 University of California, Los Angeles US 51.08 20.0
23 Columbia University US 49.26 25.8
24 Cornell University US 48.39 23.1
25 National University of Singapore Singapore 47.20 11.7
26 Princeton University US 43.64 39.3
27 McGill University Canada 37.86 20.7
30 Kings College London UK 35.66 14.0
34 Australian National University Australia 32.18 13.6
35 California Institute of Technology US 31.42 45.8
36 University of Auckland New Zealand 30.91 12.2
37 Monash University Australia 28.79 12.7
40 Boston University US 27.92 19.1
41 Washington University US 27.48 23.2
42 University of Chicago US 26.67 25.4
45 Queensland University Australia 25.72 13.2
46 University of Michigan US 25.66 20.5
53 University of South Australia Australia 23.16 –
55 Washington University, St Louis US 21.04 27.5
59 University of California, Davis US 19.77 15.4
61 Otago University New Zealand 19.39 9.9
62 University of British Columbia Canada 19.36 16.4
64 Vanderbilt University US 18.66 23.2
68 University of New South Wales Australia 17.97 11.0
69 Nottingham University UK 17.95 12.4
70 Nanyang University Singapore 17.84 –
=74 New York University US 16.84 21.1
79 Liverpool University UK 16.14 10.5
80 Manchester University and Umist UK 15.87 15.4
=81 Adelaide University Australia 15.59 11.3
=84 Alabama University US 15.02 17.5
=84 Glasgow University UK 15.02 15.8
=84 State University of New York at Stony Brook US 15.02 22.7
=90 University of Pennsylvania US 13.77 20.9
=93 George Washington University US 13.33 14.8
=93 Pennsylvania State University US 13.33 16.4
=96 University of Western Australia Australia 13.20 10.0
=100 University of Southern California US 12.90 19.0
=100 University of Texas at Austin

In the english speaking world, Melbourne and Sydney are BOTH in the top 10, beating some fine US schools!!

Honestly doctor_with_no_country/DrBum, how can you state that Australian medical schools are 2 or 3 steps below Carribean schools when the only US med schools to beat Melbourne and Sydney are Harvard, Stanford, JHU, Yale and UCSD?? Really now!! The Carribean schools don't make the list. Is logic beyond your grasp??

Sure Australian schools don't teach you to pass the USMLE, but guess what, that's not their goal. Australian driving instructors don't teach you to pass a US driving test either. Australia is a right hand drive country, so student must take the general principles and apply them in a different circumstance, just like i did to get a US drivers license.

You claim "i wasn't informed" and "where's my cheese", but there are more Malaysian medical students in the Australian system than US students, so you are a minority. Put simply you are a GUEST in Australia, if you can make it work for you in your life then great, if not DON'T COME TO AUSTRALIA, we don't need or want you, there are plently of Malaysian / Thai / Singaporian students better than you waiting to get in.

The simple truth is doctor_with_no_brain, you are an outcast. I've seen your type before. You don't fit in here in the US, so you go to Australia thinking you will be the "Big American" only to find Australians don't like you either (basically for the same reasons). So you get very bitter.

Then you get on forums like this and spread your venom!!

Just my opinion, what do others think??