Thread: Foreign doctors not tested, despite pledge

http://www.theage.com.au/articles/20...?oneclick=true

Foreign doctors not tested, despite pledge
By ***** Wroe
Canberra
Catharine Munro
July 9, 2004

Page Tools
Email to a friend Printer format
The Victorian Government has failed to keep a promise made almost two years ago to ensure all foreign doctors' skills are up to scratch through tougher tests and better training.

In late 2002, then health minister John Thwaites said the Government would tighten screening of overseas-trained doctors by January 2003.

The pledge followed a report in The Age that revealed 283 such doctors were working in Victorian hospitals without having passed the standard Australian Medical Council exam.

The Age has learnt foreign doctors in Victoria face no greater scrutiny now than two years ago, partly because the Government was worried stricter testing would drive doctors emigrating to Australia to states with less rigorous standards. The Government chose instead to push for national standards.

As well as this, a committee within the Postgraduate Medical Council of Victoria that is responsible for developing new tests to improve foreign doctors' skills has not finished its work.

Advertisement
Advertisement
Its chairman, Professor Barry McGrath, said Mr Thwaites's 2002 pledge was too ambitious.

"The minister did go a little bit out on a limb and make promises that would be unrealistic," he said. "We were cautioning them to proceed slowly and be mindful of the national implications."

Victoria has funded cultural training to foreign doctors since January, but Professor McGrath's committee is still developing standardised interviews and computer questionnaires to test overseas doctors, and guidelines to improve supervision and training of them in hospitals.

A Government spokesman said Victoria had developed a further test that was a "bar for (new foreign doctors) to jump over" and had given it to the Federal Government as a possible national benchmark.

A federal Health Department spokeswoman confirmed the department was "very interested" in the Victorian work.

The Medical Practitioners Board of Victoria can give foreign doctors conditional registration before they have passed the medical council exam. This usually means they must be supervised by the hospital where they work.

State hospitals had 185 foreign doctors working in them on conditional registration on September 30, 2003, according to the board.

Australian Medical Association vice-president Mukesh Haikerwal said junior doctors and nurses were having to cover for the failings of some overseas doctors, who he said were not getting the supervision and training they needed.

"(Foreign doctors) are being exploited... because if they speak up they will get kicked out," he said.

Joanna Flynn, president of the board, said: "The board doesn't have any evidence that there are problems, but we do recognise that it would be better if there were uniform processes of supervision."

The issue flared this week after a Monash University study found 3000 foreign-trained doctors were practising in Australia without having passed the medical council exam - which many would probably fail.

Assessment of overseas doctors is also a pressing issue because the Federal Government aims to attract about 750 more to work in parts of Australia where doctors are in short supply.

Department figures show 21 doctors have begun work as permanent residents and another 33 will start soon. And at least 231 overseas doctors have had their temporary visas extended from two to four years under a special government exemption.

Some (most?) states let doctors who don't pass the AMC test work if they agree to go to shortage areas. Obviously, these are areas that Australian doctors (and those that pass the AMC) don't want to go to. I guess they feel that a not so well trained doctor is better than no doctor at all. I don't think that everyone buys this argument. First do no harm.

Also, the AMC exam is supposed to be fairly challenging. It is interesting that grads of Australian schools (which differ widely in content and quality) don't have to take this exam.

Please Wake up OTDs,
You have the rights to talk, especially to OTDs who are citizens of Australia. Now ,OET exam is getting more and more difficult in stupid way. It was totally unrelevent to medical profession in recent exams. The last exam was a good example. The listening section was a total double "baloney".It was like a conversation of illitrates in a bar outback Australia. It was not a standard professional medical conversation which is used in Hospital. It was merely a way to fail you so that they can make more money from tuitions and exams.
Some of the cases in AMC clinical exam are totally unrelevant and they looked so stupid. In May 2008, one of the stupid cases is a case of melanoma. The case goes like a man came to your GP to get the result and get further management as he had received a biopsy take for suspicious melanoma. Well, who the hell will do biopsy from suspicious from melanoma as it can spread the cancer!
Another foolish case is from AMC hand book of clinical assessment , condition 105,page 571. It is about abdominal pain and vaginal bleeding after 8 weeks amenorrhoea.In which ,the "critical error"(candidate will fail if he do or do not cover the issue no matter how well he perform the rest of the case) is inappropriate investigation requested such as pregnancy test after the results of physical examination are known, ultrasound examination or coagulation screening. How can one say 100% sure that this is simple abortion and not H'moles ? How can one say 100% sure that the uterous is empty without US check? How can one 100% sure to exclude bleeding disorder like DIC with history & physical exam alone . This was an absolute rubbish case that make no sense at all.Yet, It is in a book where all OTDs have to read like their BIble. I can't imagine someone from other countries like US or UK read that particular case.It is a disgrace to all OTDs who is reading like Bible .
One bad experience was in career expo 2 months ago in 2008. One OTDs talked about his bad experience about OET. He said he couldn't passed all component of OET at a time , although he had passed individually in several times. And one stupid lady said '' You come to Australia , so you need to obey the rule here". Well, in Australia, all the rules can be changed by Australian Citizens. It is a true democratic society. There is a huge shortage of Doctors in Australia but here the are many OTDs who are Australian Citizens who can't applied jobs because the English Certificates are expired but they all have once passed the requirement of English language before taking MCQ exam. There should be a better way to improve English skill for doctors. There are hundreds of TAFEs offering English classes in Australia, but non of this class can offer alternative to OET and IELTS for OTDs.What a national shame!

Austalia is still the only country where OTDs have to take English test after AMC clinical exam . In UK and in USA, you only need to to complete English Test just once for the whole process, for example in MRCP exam you only need to pass IELTS once before clinical exam and in PLAB exam you only need to pass IELTS once before you take MCQ exam and there is no more English language Test after the clinical exam to apply registration.In US, once you pass the clinical exam you are regarded as proficient in language skill and there is no more English test.
It is claimed that AMC exam is equavelent to the knowledge of final year medical students. But, nobody every question how the Australian Medical Council (AMC)can make sure that the AMC exam is as equal as the exam of final year medical school exam . The pass rate of AMC exam is about 40% to 50% where as the pass rate of students in Medical School in Melbourne or Monash Uni is about 90%. OTDs in AMC exam are assessed by examiners from different Universities and different specialist medical colleges all over Australia. Medical students in their exam are assessed by their teachers in their own University.In AMC clinical exam , the cases and MCQs are unpredictable and are seem to be choosen from a pool of ever expending bank of questions. But , in Medical school in Uni, the exam is a mear curriculum recall . In Australia, there are many Medical schools with their own exam system which is a bit different from one another. There is no such things as medical board exam(USMLE) in Austalia as it is in US.If you graduate from any medical school in Australia, you are regarded as equal to any medical graduate from any Uni in Australian without a board exam, "look foolish but it is real". No more exam after graduation in Australia.But ,in US and Canada every medical students as well as OTDs have to take the same borad exam(USMLE). Only in this kind of standardized exam ,we can compare the standard of medical knowledge and skills of each doctor. There is no such case in Australia. So, there is no such think as Australian standard of medical knowledge and skill for a doctor as each University is running it own exam. Well , only OTDs have one common exam in Australia which is AMC exam which is organised by AMC . So , the claim that the AMC exam is equavelent to final year medical student knowledge is obviously spurious and have not much credibilities.
Yet, if you pass the AMC exam ,you are in the last preference in Job application or HMO matching.If you fail AMC clinical exam you need to wait 2 years to get another test. What a waste of time!
Well , OTDs Austrlian Citizens, we have a huge shortage of medical workforce and you can't apply for the job after AMC exam. It makes no sense at all. Speak out! The system need to be changed for the sake of all Australians.

God bless Australia.

Originally Posted by drdgdek

Please Wake up OTDs,
The case goes like a man came to your GP to get the result and get further management as he had received a biopsy take for suspicious melanoma. Well, who the hell will do biopsy from suspicious from melanoma as it can spread the cancer!

If melanoma is suspected, it should be excised completely as if it was confirmed and a sample sent for testing, so this is not an unlikely scenario.

The problem with the AMC exam can be eliminated by simply requiring ALL doctors, whether Australian born and trained or IMG to sit and pass the exam every 5 years in order to be registerd.

It is rediculous that in a field where medical knowledge is advancing so fast, that Australian doctors are NOT subjected to the same kind of ongoing testing that is the norm in so many other countries, to ensure that they keep their knowledge up to date and relevant.

"The issue flared this week after a Monash University study found 3000 foreign-trained doctors were practising in Australia without having passed the medical council exam - which many would probably fail."

The question should be, how many Australian doctors would pass the AMC if they were required to take it.

Originally Posted by Goresh

The question should be, how many Australian doctors would pass the AMC if they were required to take it.

Lol..you hit the nail on the head there.