Hi there everyone,
This is my first time posting here so forgive me if this is not the right place to broach such a topic.

Hopefully everyone should be aware of the current situation with the disastrous MMC in the UK and the mass exodus of junior doctors.

At the moment, I'm on the graduate entry programme in the UK in my second year. In the next 18 months I will be applying for jobs. However, I really don't see myself remaining in England at all. At the moment, I'm considering moving to Oz or the US.
I've been discouraged from going to Oz because I'm from an ethnic minority and the consensus is that Australia is racist.

I've been toying with the idea of moving to the US for some time now but I'm really at a crossroad in making a decision....

This is not to start an argument; I just want to get people's views on the two countries and which would be a better destination with my UK training.....

I'm aware that for both there would be exams to take which at this moment I'm totally unprepared for.......At the end of the day, it will be a personal decision but it would be helpful if I had some light shining on the path.

On with the debate!!!

hello?....have i posted in the wrong section?...if so where is better to get some replies?

Australia racist? And the USA is not?? Please, give me a damn break, I have lived in both countries. If you a really that concerned stay where you are(I am not trying to insult you but xenophobia is a world wide problem), because post-911 America is not so tolerant. If you are a Muslim and male, you definitely do no want to live in the USA for very obvious reasons.

In the US your UK medical degree will be recognized assuming you pass the Step 1 and 2CS and CK. Your postgraduate training will not be recognized and you will have to repeat all your post graduate training.

Australia could be racist, but it is not right now.. because economic conditions are good.

I'm not saying that the US isn't racist. I've not been to OZ and it has been voiced that it is openly racist,whereas in the US, it is there but not as obvious. I lived in the US in my teens and had no problems at all; hence the reservations about Oz.

I am not planning on staying in the UK to do postgrad training; hence my probing on into where best to start my career....I've gleaned that residency programs in the US are quite long and hard in comparison to Oz and the pay is roughly the same??

I'm concerned that there will not be adequate training posts in the UK as is currently the case.....is it the same in Oz? (Lack of training places that is)

Actually there are plenty of post graduate training posts, the ones that will be difficult are Dermatology and ENT. Surgery, Radiology, Anesthesiology and General Practice are very doable. I actually work with a Registrar who graduated from a UK school and is working here, he found the racism issue the opposite as in Australia being more open, he came from Bradford(he got his MBBS in Edinburgh and had quite a few stories to tell about that), fyi, a town that had a HUGE riot about six years ago involving whites and Asian Pakistani youths. I know another Indian fellow who grew up here, is married to a white Aussie.
As far as racism in the US, 25 percent of adult African American males are in prison. There is a lot of racism towards Hispanics, I used to live in a town similar to the part of Australia where I reside, I experienced a lot more discrimination there in than in Australia.

But anyhow racism is everywhere, and as a doctor you will be too busy to worry about it, the real issue is training, you need to have a US green card to be able to enter most residency programs in the US. Only the undesirable programs will sponsor you for a visa, usually Psychiatry. Since you come from a Commonwealth country any post graduate training that you have should transfer to Australia. There are many UK educated doctors who work in Australia.

You have your information mixed up, residency in Australia is longer, but you get paid more money and work more humane hours. In the US residency training is faster, you work long hours and get paid virtually nothing.

The only racist incident I experienced in Australia was when I ran into an English backpacker.

Bummer about training in OZ for dermatology!!!..Before I started med school I knew that was what I wanted to do and it's increasingly looking a bit dismal....GP is my last resort but it seems that's going to probably be my only way in.....

Since so far I've not had the misfortune of being discriminated against I will discount the negatives I've heard of OZ....will think about giving it a shot....I got a link from one of the members in another forum where I posted my initial thread so will check out the AMC guidelines. Thanks.

This is not true. OK, don't count on dermatology or opthamology.

If you have COMPLETED postgraduate training in ANY country (no preference to Commonwealth!), you can apply directly to your specialty's Australian college and they will advise on a case by case basis. They MAY or may NOT waive the AMC exam and supervised training year. It is not likely that you will receive "credit" for partially completed training. Often, special arrangements are made for short stays, "fellowships", etc.

I have found that there are some real limitations for foreign doctors, even Australian educated doctors with PR. Various legislation (for example Ten Year Moratorium) and PMC policies regarding placement of foreigners often limit where you can work and hence what specialty training is available to you. Once you get into the US system, you probably have more upward mobility and freedom to choose where to live and practice. The training is generally more standardized in the US than in Australia. Depending on the specialty, it can take half the time of programs in Australia. US medical training is generally more intense -- longer hours, shorter holiday periods and less flexiblity than elsewhere.

As for racism, you may want to research some of Australia's official policies since the 1970's. But note: If you are of African descent you may find rockstar status in Australia. When the US Navy sails in for R&R, Australian girls flock to the Cross to get Black guys.

Agree. It is more socially acceptable to be racist in Australia and racism is more institutionalized.
NO. If you take medical school completion as the starting point, twice as long in Australia as US. You must do 2-3 years of prevocational training PRIOR to even starting formal postgraduate training. Often, PR is contingent on 3 years of prevocational training. PR is a requirement of most if not all specialty colleges. (Check their websites for more information.)

This may well be a problem in future years due to the HUGE increase in medical school intakes and the opening of new medical schools over the last few years.

As for the process. After you finish school in UK, you will have to sit the AMC. (Your Australian medical school counterparts have to do PLAB and ILETS -- even if they are British citizens. There is now, as of 2004, no difference between graduates of Commonwealth medical schools and medical schools in other countries as far as the GMC is concerned.) Currently there are some desparate areas in some states that will hire you behind the backs of the PMCs even if you fail AMC. (This practice is generating some controversy.)Without AMC, you will certainly be destined for a life as a CMO -- effectively, a permanent intern. This could happen even if you do pass AMC. Passing AMC means that you can start prevocational training in Australia. Getting into postgraduate training is a whole different story. You may or may not ultimately get a place in a postgraduate training program. If you don't you can probably continue to practice in Australia as a CMO -- permanent intern.

AMC exam is said to be a real ordeal. Lots of trivial irrelevant psychosocial stuff specific to Australian culture. The clinical skills assessment is said to be very subjective. Not the sort of dry straightforward clinical science tested on PLAB.

That was a wealth of information that was imparted....It's quite obvious I have not done any in-depth research and was a little biased towards the US simply because I have lived there. It seems that even if I was to obtain a PR it would not necessarily work in my favor in Oz.

I don't particularly warm to the idea of being a permanent intern!!!....As far as specialties go I will try and find a second love if it is going to be virtually impossible to pursue derm......

By the way I'm FEMALE....

with a UK degree (MBBS), oz would be better suited for it. however, i would advise you to choose the US. just because you are a minority and the US would be more welcoming.