What is a Greenbook rotation?

[Sree Cheruku]

The point of this thread is so I can link it to my signature and never again have to define the term 'greenbook rotation'.

A greenbook rotation is one that either has or is affiliated with an ACGME-residency program in the same field as the rotation. The reason for the term 'green book' is because the ACGME publishes a list of these accredited residency programs in a book that happens to be green. This list is also available for free on their website - ACGME Accredited Program and Institutional Listing - Public Access.

There are several reasons to choose Greenbook rotations.

The most important I think is the ability to practice in the maximum number of states. The VMD user Dakota, who is an AUA grad, posted the following:

States that may prove to be difficult regarding "GREEN" rotations are California, Delaware, Conn, Georgia (all including electives), Illinois, Michigan, New Mexico, New York, Oklahoma, Utah, Virginia, and Kansas (15 year rule). Tennessee and Nevada should probably be put in this list as well.

States that aren't as difficult, with regards to "GREEN" rotations are Arizona, Colorado, Florida, Pennsylvania, Indiana, Iowa, Maine, Louisiana, Maryland, Mississippi, Missouri, Montana, Nebraska, North Carolina, North Dakota, Ohio, Rhode Island, South Carolina, South Dakota, Texas (be ready to fight), Vermont, West Virginia, Wisconsin, and Wyoming.

The statutes of each state are readily available for everyone to read---just takes a while to get through them all.

State Medical Boards, Physician Licensing Boards, State Boards of Medicine Directory

Also very important is that a greenbook rotation is almost always affiliated with an academic program in the subject - which means that you'll have lectures and actually learn something.

There are certain hospital administrators and even AUA employees who think, quite incorrectly, that a program is "Green book" if it is affiliated with a Family Medicine residency program. I have personally called the Michigan State Medical Board and they have told me that this is not true. The only state I know of which allows these 'Blue Book' rotations, as they are referred to, is California. And, AUA students can't practice there anyway.

The above stuff about Greenbook rotations applies to the core rotations. There are only two states that require Greenbook electives, that I know of, and those are TX and PA. I think that you should do Green electives as well, simply because it is a better learning experience. Take advantage of the fact that AUA students can do 3 months of rotations in hospitals not affiliated with the school to schedule these Greenbook electives.

Finally, you need to be able to independently verify the greenbook status of any given rotation - otherwise you will be mislead. For example, if you want to check if your Internal Medicine rotation at Harbor Hospital is Greenbook, go to

1. Go to ACGME Accredited Program and Institutional Listing - Public Access,
2. Click on Accredited Programs (left column)
3. Select "Internal Medicine" and "Maryland"
4. You'll see Harbor Hospital on the list

Now here's the tricky part. How do you verify that a hospital without a Greenbook rotation is affiliated with one that is? That's the case with Ob/Gyn at Harbor Hospital.

1. Call Harbor Hospital and ask them exactly how the Ob rotation is Green
2. They will tell you that it is through the University of Maryland
3. Go to ACGME Accredited Program and Institutional Listing - Public Access
4. Click on Accredited Programs (left column)
5. Select "Obstetrics and Gynecology" and "Maryland"
6. Click on View Details to the left of "University of Maryland"
7. You'll see Harbor Hospital if you scroll all the way down

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[MajMD]

Hey Sree, do you know if it's difficult to get a Greenbook rotation in Massachusetts? They have some really great teaching hospitals in Boston...

[Sree Cheruku]

you can get an away elective at harvard if you're willing to pay them 3k/month tuition (in addition to paying aua tuition)

but i havent seen anyone on vmd talk about rotating in an MA hospital, think its a tough state for clinicals

[vasanthd]

Hi guys,
Thanks for your wonderful post in regards to greenbook rotation. According to my understanding from your post, you say that not all schools/rotations combo are greenbook rotations. But from the AUA websites Clinical sciences section, it states the following:

All rotations are completed at ACGME-affiliated teaching hospitals in the U.S. Clinical Rotations are scheduled only through our Clinical Coordinators.

Two questions on behalf of someone I know:
1) It does say that all are completed at ACGME affiliated teaching hospitals.
So does it mean that AUA states that all rotations will be greenbook rotations?
2) Do we have any control of the scheduling of the rotations? The same quote states they will be scheduled only by the clinical coordinators.


Thanks.
--Vas

[octavio]

you can get an away elective at harvard if you're willing to pay them 3k/month tuition (in addition to paying aua tuition)

but i havent seen anyone on vmd talk about rotating in an MA hospital, think its a tough state for clinicals

How much is AUA tuition/month during clinicals? Am I right in guessing around 3k/month? Thanks

[Sree Cheruku]

2600 a month, approximately

[Sree Cheruku]

Two questions on behalf of someone I know:
1) It does say that all are completed at ACGME affiliated teaching hospitals.
So does it mean that AUA states that all rotations will be greenbook rotations?

Nope. I'd say that at least 50% of students rotate through non-Green sites. Some do so out of convenience (shorter wait times, the ability to do everything in once place) and some do so because they don't know any better.

2) Do we have any control of the scheduling of the rotations? The same quote states they will be scheduled only by the clinical coordinators.

Yeah you can request whatever you want, but Green rotations will obviously have longer wait times. Those who requested Peds (at Wyckoff) two months ago were given a eight month wait time. As long as wait times for core rotations are under 12 months, it's not so bad.

[hannahMD]

I called a few FM residency program coordinators in Michigan. They said that they had no requirments for greenbook rotations. Does that mean we can get into a residency in MI and practice as a resident physician w/o a license or with a limited license and worry about getting a license later?

[mdstudent09]

how do you find out if an elective is greenbook, for example, cardiology, yes there is an IM residency affialiated w/the hospital, but does there need to be a cardiology fellowship affiliated too?

also is there anything i can do if my 6 wk core rotation of ob-gyn was greenbook under the family practice umbrella, is there anyway to rectify that now bc all my other cores were greenbook by specialty, thanks

[coolblue06]

Is SURGERY @ Richmond UMC in Staten Island greenbook??? Have anyone have

rotated there or know people who did their rotations, Please share your experiences!!!

thank you

[Madinat]

a good site to check for greenbooks is the frieda residency search.
AMA FREIDA Online

this lists sponsored programs as well as affiliated programs and you can search six ways from sunday.....

HTH