So when are the "It's good news" meetings?

[Bill_Cornbread]

So when are the "It's good news" meetings? I seem to only make the "It suxs for us" ones. I think the new game plan is to lower our moral by flip flopping "rules"-'a term used lightly in this context.' I feel good one day and then crappy the next. It's doing wonders to help me concentrate on doing better and preping for the step. I am just going to quit going to any meetings. They don't seem to mean anything because the next meeting the "rules" are all new, changed, or whatever and it's nothing but discouraging. I need to be in top mental shape to read 6 hrs a day.

On another rant; I am actually doing worse now that this attendance policy is in place. I am 4th, never failed a class and in fact most likely will be in the top 10% of my class. That accounts for only about 20 or so people from Jan 05 that haven't failed yet. Admin thinks; "again a term I use lightly", they can improve step scores. They can't. It starts at the door and you can not make someone do better by making them do anything.

One stealth solution in place now??; Let the numbers still come in but do things that only make it possible for the top 1/3 or so to sit for the step using shelf scores, comp testing, Kaplan, etc. The money still rolls in and only the top get to leave happy. The others in debt, bankrupt, and no possible way to repay. What does that matter though. I am sure if this model is in place then we would surely lose our fin. aid though. :shock:

Now many feel that we must go outside the campus to plea for help. It truely is unbelievable that this school is still working on ground rules after almost 30 yrs. They can not possibly improve scores using the system they have now. They don't know this because they never went to med school and don't know what it takes to succeed at it. We need TIME not role call. That's the dumbest idea I ever heard of. Fire that person right now. :p

This husband and wife thing working here is a problem too imo. Why do you think it's a no-no back in the states. I know it's a "cookie" for them to come down here but it bias when they both seat on a commity to kick someone out or one just plain stinks and the other is not easy to replace. How many couples are here anyway teaching? 5-6?? Cut the head of that beast and things would get better for sure. Wait we can't do that; those are the people making the "rules".

I think this place could be so much better.
Also; comments by anyone off the island are mute. So shut it. :mad:
Man; I think I can go study now. :D

[stateofequilibrium]

No, it's never a good thing when the admin keeps flip flopping rules around because they inserted a clause that they said so.

I do like how the biggest concern over the schedule change was not the people who've fallen back or had to retake a class going to do, but seats in histology.

[rocky_wayne]

I am a fifth semester here and I see a way AUC can improve step one scores...Don't keep us in class 6 hours a day and let us study. Now I see why people said you have to jump through more hoops in the caribbean.

[microphage]

Its nice to see how much you've grown.... I remember back when you were just a little lad asking for admission help but now you're ranting like the best of them(rrod excluded). You sound like me when I was in 3rd semester ranting about block exams. Keep up the good work.

:D


(and btw, since when did us "old" folks ever NOT butt in to every conversation ) ;)

[AUCMD2006]

so exactly what ar ethey doing now?

[microphage]

so exactly what ar ethey doing now?

dude.. it's rant itself and not the topic of the rant thats important. Have you not learned anything in med school?

[jp1]

I am interested in applying to AUC. Judging by Bill Cornbread's post, only 20 or so students out of the Jan 05 class have passed every course taken so far. If approximately 80 students entered the Jan 05 class, 75 percent of students have failed at least one class so far. Is this accurate??

[levator]

so exactly what ar ethey doing now?

i am there with you... it would be easir to butt in this conversation if we knew what it was about... what are the changes?

[McGillGrad]

I am interested in applying to AUC. Judging by Bill Cornbread's post, only 20 or so students out of the Jan 05 class have passed every course taken so far. If approximately 80 students entered the Jan 05 class, 75 percent of students have failed at least one class so far. Is this accurate??

If you are qualified then you have nothing to worry about.

[Scientific]

All I can say is that I really feel for the students still on the island. I'm not even saying that jokingly, I REALLY do feel for you. This disorganization is absolutely disgusting. I also am not aware of what the most recent changes are, but from when I left it seemed like AUC was beginning to lean towards the "Weed out" process used at Ross. There are 100 different ways to go about raising scores on Step 1 and it begins with the way that the classes are taught and the material covered. Only advice I can give is to take your time, maybe cut your schedule down to only 3 classes if you have to. It's more important that you don't fail classes than it is to be done in exactly 5 semesters. It's not fair, and you shouldn't have to do that, but you got to do what you got to do to get finished. Good luck guys.

[stateofequilibrium]

I'm not againist "Weeding Out." In a way, a Caribbean education is a weeding out process. But to constantly flop and change rules on the classes that have already gone through the majority of their basic sciences on the island is almost criminal.

Just to mention, I'm not whining because I'm in any danger. The only danger I face right now is the cumulative shelf and certification timing.. but the constantly tell us one thing to have it reversed the next, it's outrageous.

[AUCMD2006]

so exactly what is the issue? so bill, 75% of your class failed at least one class?

if they are going to the admit 300 and fail 250 model it is a sad day and i will not recomment this school anymore...but if the dean is making changes to improve passing scores then i will hold judgement. if anything, its hgood to vent..i know i did plenty during blcok exams, the neuro situation, and so on but in the end it all seems to work out.

if you put in the time and are a halfway decent student (maybe 80gpa?) then i honestly beleive you have a 100% chance of passing the usmle.

[stateofequilibrium]

so exactly what is the issue? so bill, 75% of your class failed at least one class?

if they are going to the admit 300 and fail 250 model it is a sad day and i will not recomment this school anymore...but if the dean is making changes to improve passing scores then i will hold judgement. if anything, its hgood to vent..i know i did plenty during blcok exams, the neuro situation, and so on but in the end it all seems to work out.

if you put in the time and are a halfway decent student (maybe 80gpa?) then i honestly beleive you have a 100% chance of passing the usmle.

Well, the current problem is the issue of certification for the current 4th semesters going into 5th. Certification will now only be issued upon a passing score on the cumulative shelf which means that if you don't pass it the first time (the monday you get back), you're not going to make it for the 2008 Match no matter how fast you get things rolling for clinicals.

Previously, apparently, our class reps were informed from the Dean that we would be granted certification despite shelf scores. Dr. Y disabused us of that fairy tale. I guess this is somewhat of a worry since our Shelf averages have been just at the minimum passing score.

[jp1]

Hoping somebody can clarify these stats. Is Bill Cornbread accurate in stating that the vast majority of students at AUC fail at least one class while on the island?

[Bill_Cornbread]

If this rule sticks, then the word needs to get out that applying to AUC in Jan may not be the best time. Not that is was before but now it really isn't.

If you stay on track and do the standard 5 semester plan and do not pass that one diagnostic test at the beginning of 5th semester (you only have a week break to study), then not only will you have to postpone taking the step and wait up to 4-6 months before for a clinical placement but that in no way can you make the match on time, period. What is that time wise anyway? like a 9 month wait between your MD and a residency? plus 4 months or so for the time to reg. for the step at the end of 5th, take the test, wait for a score, and then wait for placement. In the end; you lose a year. Why in the heck did I bust my buns in 2nd and 3rd passing all eight classes when I should of kicked back and taken only 3 in each and learned more.

Funny how the Kaplan exams sort of over rides all the exams we took in the basic science classes. It indirectly tells me that they have little confidence in their own exams and passing those isn't good enough for the step. Maybe that has more to do with the pass rate than class attendance. :rolleyes:

[swimguy23]

If this rule sticks, then the word needs to get out that applying to AUC in Jan may not be the best time. Not that is was before but now it really isn't.

If you stay on track and do the standard 5 semester plan and do not pass that one diagnostic test at the beginning of 5th semester (you only have a week break to study), then not only will you have to postpone taking the step and wait up to 4-6 months before for a clinical placement but that in no way can you make the match on time, period. What is that time wise anyway? like a 9 month wait between your MD and a residency? plus 4 months or so for the time to reg. for the step at the end of 5th, take the test, wait for a score, and then wait for placement. In the end; you lose a year. Why in the heck did I bust my buns in 2nd and 3rd passing all eight classes when I should of kicked back and taken only 3 in each and learned more.

Funny how the Kaplan exams sort of over rides all the exams we took in the basic science classes. It indirectly tells me that they have little confidence in their own exams and passing those isn't good enough for the step. Maybe that has more to do with the pass rate than class attendance. :rolleyes:

just out of curiousity you contradict yourself.....in one post you say kaplan comprehensive and in another you say kaplan diagnostic and then youre talking about shelves.....which is it.....it doesnt seem likely they would make you pass the diagnostic especially if you improve dramatically by the time of the kaplan comprehensive or comprehensive shelf

[jp1]

Just hoping for a clarification from Bill Cornbread. Do the majority of students (75 percent is this case) fail at least one class while on the island?

[swimguy23]

Just hoping for a clarification from Bill Cornbread. Do the majority of students (75 percent is this case) fail at least one class while on the island?

unless things have changed dramatically in the past year, no 75% do not fail a classes

[stateofequilibrium]

Just hoping for a clarification from Bill Cornbread. Do the majority of students (75 percent is this case) fail at least one class while on the island?

Not even close to 75%. But there are some that failed back a semester, decided to voluntarily decrease their courseload, or failed a class for whatever reason and that equals a number of people who have to do some extra work 5th semester. But nowhere near 75, that was an exaggeration.

[TexSxm]

On another rant; I am actually doing worse now that this attendance policy is in place. I am 4th, never failed a class and in fact most likely will be in the top 10% of my class. That accounts for only about 20 or so people from Jan 05 that haven't failed yet. Admin thinks; "again a term I use lightly", they can improve step scores. They can't. It starts at the door and you can not make someone do better by making them do anything.

so exactly what is the issue? so bill, 75% of your class failed at least one class?

if they are going to the admit 300 and fail 250 model it is a sad day and i will not recomment this school anymore...but if the dean is making changes to improve passing scores then i will hold judgement. if anything, its hgood to vent..i know i did plenty during blcok exams, the neuro situation, and so on but in the end it all seems to work out.


The January '05 class started out with an enrollment somewhere between 85 and 95 students. Speculation, rumor, and/or a rough estimate of how many of those students that will be finished with basic sciences in August is close to 20, give or take a few. Maybe some have not necessarily failed but have decided to extend their stay and decrease their class load. At the end of second semester class rank was figured out of 82 students. The top 25% were the top 20, the top 10% were the top 8. After third semester the class rank was figured out of 68 students, with the top 25% being the top 17 and top 10% being the top 6. For those of you trying to figure it out, these aren't exact figures, but close. So you can form your own opinions!

[ChanceCount]

Just hoping for a clarification from Bill Cornbread. Do the majority of students (75 percent is this case) fail at least one class while on the island?

It would be difficult to find the statistics on this, but my estimation is that this is a high number or taken out of context. I'm a third semester and the number of students here that are taking 4 third semester classes is very likely under 20 when we started with a class of 65 or so. Not all them failed a class. Many of them decided they would rather take Physio II in 4th or Path II in 5th.

Personally, I don't care what any statistics say. As long as I take care of my own business, the percentage of people that fail a class isn't my problem.

[stateofequilibrium]

just out of curiousity you contradict yourself.....in one post you say kaplan comprehensive and in another you say kaplan diagnostic and then youre talking about shelves.....which is it.....it doesnt seem likely they would make you pass the diagnostic especially if you improve dramatically by the time of the kaplan comprehensive or comprehensive shelf

It's the comprehensive that we have to pass first to get certification before we leave the island. But we have to pass both the comp and diagnostic at the end to complete the course.. I think.

[swimguy23]

It's the comprehensive that we have to pass first to get certification before we leave the island. But we have to pass both the comp and diagnostic at the end to complete the course.. I think.

i dont understand.....the diagnostic is taken in the beginning why would you have to take it again.....if you pass the comprehensive you pass the diagnostic since many of the questions are similar.....

i know besides the regular shelves, there is the kaplan diagnostic taken during the first week of 5th, then at the end there is a kaplan simulated and there is the nbme comprehensive shelf

[ChanceCount]

It's the comprehensive that we have to pass first to get certification before we leave the island. But we have to pass both the comp and diagnostic at the end to complete the course.. I think.

I think this is true, Captain. But they are tentatively planning on moving back the diagnostic to the end of the third week.

[stateofequilibrium]

Oh sorry, I meant simulated at the end. Perhaps stimulated as well.. but that's a story for a different unmoderated forum.

[stateofequilibrium]

I think this is true, Captain. But they are tentatively planning on moving back the diagnostic to the end of the third week.

You absolutely suck. Do you know how hard it is to tell Dr. D that you're the "Captain" of the Posterior Fornix?

[swimguy23]

Oh sorry, I meant simulated at the end. Perhaps stimulated as well.. but that's a story for a different unmoderated forum.

i dont see whats wrong with that.....the kaplan simulated is much much easier than the step anyways.....i scored around 10 points lower than my true usmle score but i busted butt for a little while after it

the comprehensive shelf used some of the same questions.....i remember flyin thru that pretty quick so if you study hard for the shelves you will be fine.....i know it seems like undue stress from AUC but if you dont pass the comprehensive shelf and you dont pass kaplan simulated there is no way you are ready to take step 1.....if you didnt just blow them off

[anencephalic]

Personally, I don't care what any statistics say. As long as I take care of my own business, the percentage of people that fail a class isn't my problem.

Amen. My step I pass rate is 100%.:p

Aloha,

[TexSxm]

Okay, let me see if I can clear any of this up or just make it muddier.
No, certification is giving at the beginning of 5th semester to go ahead and register for step I.
First day of class, take the diagnostic, this is not counted against you.
Third week of class, take the comprehensive, if you do not pass the comprehensive, you are not given certification to register for step I, you must wait until the end of the semester to take it again and only upon passing this do you get certified to take step I.
You must also complete all the requirements of fifth semester to get certified to take step I.
This is where the problem comes into play, everyone in the past has been certified early in fifth semester, regardless of any test, to take step I, then those that did not pass fifth semester for whatever reason had their certification pulled. Doing it like this, seems to be an "inconvenience" for administration, calling USMLE and pulling certification. The problem is if you do not pass the first comprehensive but you fulfill all other requirements and pass the second comprehensive, then your window of opportunity becomes very narrow between the time the school gets all the scores back, 2-3 weeks, then certifies you, you have less than a week if that to try and get a test date within the block of testing, if not you then have to wait for the next block of test. I hope this helps to clear things up and explain why people are getting upset.

[Skipper]

it is doable to pass the comphrensive at the first try---

you need to pass by 1.5 Std Deviation which basically beating out the bottom 9%--the people who can pass this right away are on the right track--the people who cannot beat the bottom 9% shouldnt be taken step 1 right away anyways---

to be considered passing the shelf you need a 58 (which was the score this semester for pass) and this score is around a 160 on step 1 which is still failing step 1---

37 people pass it on the first try this semester out of 110---

skipper

[ChanceCount]

it is doable to pass the comphrensive at the first try---

you need to pass by 1.5 Std Deviation which basically beating out the bottom 9%--the people who can pass this right away are on the right track--the people who cannot beat the bottom 9% shouldnt be taken step 1 right away anyways---

to be considered passing the shelf you need a 58 (which was the score this semester for pass) and this score is around a 160 on step 1 which is still failing step 1---

37 people pass it on the first try this semester out of 110---

skipper

Geez, when I heard the 37/110, I had assumed that you needed a score that would predict you pass Step I, but it is only within 1.5 SD. Ouch.

[stateofequilibrium]

Geez, when I heard the 37/110, I had assumed that you needed a score that would predict you pass Step I, but it is only within 1.5 SD. Ouch.

Well, considering the Shelf passing score is within 1.5 SD and the class avg is usually one point above.. you get the picture.

[TexSxm]

it is doable to pass the comphrensive at the first try---

you need to pass by 1.5 Std Deviation which basically beating out the bottom 9%--the people who can pass this right away are on the right track--the people who cannot beat the bottom 9% shouldnt be taken step 1 right away anyways---

to be considered passing the shelf you need a 58 (which was the score this semester for pass) and this score is around a 160 on step 1 which is still failing step 1---

37 people pass it on the first try this semester out of 110---

skipper

To make sure I understand what you are saying, you believe that 73 people out of the 5th semester class right now, have no business taking step I in April or May?

[Skipper]

Geez, when I heard the 37/110, I had assumed that you needed a score that would predict you pass Step I, but it is only within 1.5 SD. Ouch.

yea if you are a pretty good student and havent had troubles at passing the shelves then you shouldnt worry---

you will most likely pass with the 1.5 std deviation guidline

skipper

[Skipper]

To make sure I understand what you are saying, you believe that 73 people out of the 5th semester class right now, have no business taking step I in April or May?


you probably really dont want to know my true opinion on the situation---

but you can understand it however way you want---

i am not trying to insult anyone, but if you score a 45 on the comp shelf i think it is a far stretch to be able to learn everything to bring the score up to a 62 (equivalent to a 182ish on step1) in the 3 mos, so in a sense yes i think people with a low score probably will have problems on step 1---

skipper

[TexSxm]

you probably really dont want to know my true opinion on the situation---

but you can understand it however way you want---

i am not trying to insult anyone, but if you score a 45 on the comp shelf i think it is a far stretch to be able to learn everything to bring the score up to a 62 (equivalent to a 182ish on step1) in the 3 mos, so in a sense yes i think people with a low score probably will have problems on step 1---

skipper

Well, I wasn't trying to call you out. I was just making sure I understood what you were saying and everyone is entitled to their opinion. For the most part I do agree with you. It comes down to administration telling you without a doubt you will be certified at the beginning of the semester just like classes before you then a few days later telling you everything has changed.

[microphage]

I actually support u guys on this one. It sucks...

Let's just hope they smarten up again.

[DrShikima]

I actually support u guys on this one. It sucks...

Let's just hope they smarten up again.

I support Micro supporting you guys.... where's my yellow ribbon?

[AUCMD2006]

this is to be expected i guess. why should they certify then pull certification? just do it once.

this may actually be good if you look at it from an outside perspective,
the first comprehensive you take should give you an idea of your weak areas...study for 3 months and see how much you improve..thats not a bad deal.

also you can fill out all the application and just hand in your certification paper, it takes about 10 days to get that in and be scheduled for the test. also a great number of people take an extra 4weeks to 4 months to study when they leave the island anyway so i really don't see the problem? unless you fail..in which case you aren't ready, or you are going for the shotgun approach and have tight deadlines.

a large number of students slack off during 5th...this change just means that you will actually have to study during the semester you are supposed to be studying for the usmle...ooooohhhh and they expect you to at least be in the bottom 9% of the curve? those masachistic bastards..putting in policies to make you pass and stuff....

[sparkles]

it is doable to pass the comphrensive at the first try---

you need to pass by 1.5 Std Deviation which basically beating out the bottom 9%--the people who can pass this right away are on the right track--the people who cannot beat the bottom 9% shouldnt be taken step 1 right away anyways---

to be considered passing the shelf you need a 58 (which was the score this semester for pass) and this score is around a 160 on step 1 which is still failing step 1---

37 people pass it on the first try this semester out of 110---

skipper


Seems to me as if this could be a reason why they decided to change things...

[Bill_Cornbread]

Its so easy to give neg. feedback when it doesn't effect you. How easy we jump to the other side of the fence sometimes. I watch out for people like that. :twisted:

I was using the term comp and diag test synonomously. I wasn't aware they we differnent but no matter. So we take the "important one" on the 3rd week and not the 1st. My bad.

[swimguy23]

Its so easy to give neg. feedback when it doesn't effect you. How easy we jump to the other side of the fence sometimes. I watch out for people like that. :twisted:

I was using the term comp and diag test synonomously. I wasn't aware they we differnent but no matter. So we take the "important one" on the 3rd week and not the 1st. My bad.

well the difference between the comprehensive and diagnostic probably doesnt seem like much now but just wait until you take them.....its like having a mcdonalds hamburger or filet mignon

we arent jumping to the other side of the fence its that when the grades dont affect us personally and add stress to our lives we can see the reasons behind it.....and theres a way to stop the admin from changing rules all the time.....have everyone pass the first try with good scores

[options]

The new certification rules are definately a good thing in order to bring up our passing rates. Alot of people at AUC, even the ones that make it to 5th, will never pass the USMLE (2 out of 10 approximately). If we can limit most of these people from taking the exam, it will bring up our pass substantially. I agree that changing the rules on this day by day is very unprofessional. But, if you are a good student, who has a good chance of passing Step I, the shelf cutoff scores are a non-issue, even at 1.5 SD. If you are not making that cutoff, you should take a serious look at why, and act accordingly.

[AUCMD2006]

also in the past we only got certified in fifth if you hadn't failed anything with the understanding that if you didn't pass the comprehensive it would be revocated.

and yes it is easier to give feedback when it doesn't affect you because you aren't biased. the school is in flux and has been for the last 2 semesters until they tweak it to what they want expect more cahnges. like options said, if you are a half decent student there is nothing to complain about b/c you would have been certified regardless...this will affect people on the fence and those are whom they are targeting.

the dean ran a US med school so give him some time..he may know what he is doing. only time will tell

[msbookite]

i'm going to 2nd a pp and say if they want to bring up first time pass rate it would be a big step in the right direction if they would give the 5th semester students time to study. this icm thing being moved around is a joke. ihave no problem w/ icm as an "intro" but it is a bit much imo. and now it ends toward the end of march? is that still true? that means you will have less than a month to crack down w/ nothing to do but study for the usmle if you want to take it right away and make a june or early july start date. good grief!

Ms

[rnagy54]

Bill:

By the way, I know that of the 37 people who passed, maybe 10-15 ACTUALLY studied for it. I didn't and I passed by 10 points. Its not an easy test, but if you take the time to figure through the problem it gets easier. And MS, I agree, this ICM stuff has got to change. I cant stand the fact that by the time I get done watching 3 hours of Kaplan and doing another 2.5-3hrs in ICM, I am supposed to come home eat and study for another 4-5hours. It just ain't happening right now. I know that when I get to clinicals, it will be a lot more reading after working 12-40 hour shifts, but at least you are moving around during that time. Sitting there just puts in the mood for a nap, then I get nothing done.

Later,
Nagy

[microphage]

Bill:

By the way, I know that of the 37 people who passed, maybe 10-15 ACTUALLY studied for it. I didn't and I passed by 10 points. Its not an easy test, but if you take the time to figure through the problem it gets easier. And MS, I agree, this ICM stuff has got to change. I cant stand the fact that by the time I get done watching 3 hours of Kaplan and doing another 2.5-3hrs in ICM, I am supposed to come home eat and study for another 4-5hours. It just ain't happening right now. I know that when I get to clinicals, it will be a lot more reading after working 12-40 hour shifts, but at least you are moving around during that time. Sitting there just puts in the mood for a nap, then I get nothing done.

Later,
Nagy

moving around makes me wanna go home and sleep.....

[swimguy23]

moving around makes me wanna go home and sleep.....

the literature states 30 hour shifts are not cool

[ChanceCount]

Bill:

By the way, I know that of the 37 people who passed, maybe 10-15 ACTUALLY studied for it. I didn't and I passed by 10 points. Its not an easy test, but if you take the time to figure through the problem it gets easier. And MS, I agree, this ICM stuff has got to change. I cant stand the fact that by the time I get done watching 3 hours of Kaplan and doing another 2.5-3hrs in ICM, I am supposed to come home eat and study for another 4-5hours. It just ain't happening right now. I know that when I get to clinicals, it will be a lot more reading after working 12-40 hour shifts, but at least you are moving around during that time. Sitting there just puts in the mood for a nap, then I get nothing done.

Later,
Nagy

I think what they would like to do is eventually move ICM into 4th semester to try and decompress 5th. For the time being, they are going to try to move BBCM to either 8 AM or 3 PM so that students would have the option of attending whichever suits their schedule. ICM would be moved to 1130 so that students would be out by 230 or so. I don't exactly know where that leaves Harvey lab. This seems like it's a reasonable temporary fix, but it means there isn't any change for people that are taking a morning class during 5th semester. I know from the third semester class, we have a lot of people who dropped Pathology and are planning on doing this.

The dean said at the last town hall meeting that he would eventually like to decompress the entire basic sciences to either 6 semesters, or 4 longer semesters with a more traditional summer break in-between. If this ever happens, it will probably be when all of us on the island are in clinicals or later.

[swimguy23]

I think what they would like to do is eventually move ICM into 4th semester to try and decompress 5th. For the time being, they are going to try to move BBCM to either 8 AM or 3 PM so that students would have the option of attending whichever suits their schedule. ICM would be moved to 1130 so that students would be out by 230 or so. I don't exactly know where that leaves Harvey lab. This seems like it's a reasonable temporary fix, but it means there isn't any change for people that are taking a morning class during 5th semester. I know from the third semester class, we have a lot of people who dropped Pathology and are planning on doing this.

The dean said at the last town hall meeting that he would eventually like to decompress the entire basic sciences to either 6 semesters, or 4 longer semesters with a more traditional summer break in-between. If this ever happens, it will probably be when all of us on the island are in clinicals or later.

its my honest opinion that people who have failed or dropped classes should not really factor into the equation of having options as to when to attend BBCM.....

[Skipper]

i find it stupid if they decompress to 6 semesters---we would lose students---

ross and sgu are only 5 semesters which is still a semester more than US schools---

so adding another one will just give them more room to add crappy classes

if anything they should go to 4 semesters

skipper

[Skipper]

Its so easy to give neg. feedback when it doesn't effect you. How easy we jump to the other side of the fence sometimes. I watch out for people like that. :twisted:

I was using the term comp and diag test synonomously. I wasn't aware they we differnent but no matter. So we take the "important one" on the 3rd week and not the 1st. My bad.

you guys were told with atleast 3 months---

we were told with a few weeks before the last semester ended and the start of this semester

skipper

[sparkles]

its my honest opinion that people who have failed or dropped classes should not really factor into the equation of having options as to when to attend BBCM.....

So if you fail a class or need to drop a class in order to have enough time to actually learn the material, then you should no longer have any control over your education and career?

I really hope that's not what you meant...

[swimguy23]

So if you fail a class or need to drop a class in order to have enough time to actually learn the material, then you should no longer have any control over your education and career?

I really hope that's not what you meant...

no youre not reading what i wrote.....the 5-10 people in a class that dropped or failed (more likely failed or were failing and HAD to drop) should not limit or control what happens for the other 70-80 people in the class that passed.....i hope you can see the difference

[ChanceCount]

So if you fail a class or need to drop a class in order to have enough time to actually learn the material, then you should no longer have any control over your education and career?

I really hope that's not what you meant...

The school shouldn't design it's program with this expectation. It should definitely be considered atypical.

[doctorcop]

Seems to me There may have been an oversight throughout this post.

The school has made several changes to try and increase the 1st time pass rate on the USMLE and maintain it's current certifications.

Till now, the dean and school officials have placed all the burden of change onto the students.

Preparing for the board and participating in Kaplan this semester it has become clear that it is the curriculum that is deficient, with shared responsibility by a minority of students. An effort MUST be made to reform specific course curriculum to reflect both the current USMLE and clinical medicine. Instructors must have guidelines that identify the concepts essential to passing the USMLE.

ICM should be disbanded and integrated to all semesters, from day one students should be taught to think of the clinical implications of the material they are being taught.

Testing should be in true USMLE format, tertiary style questioning with clinical reference, not simple recall.

In its' current state, even with increased requirements for promotion between semesters the clinical student will be severely lacking compared to their US counterpart in the ability to quickly and successfully integrate clinical information. And it will thru NO FAULT of their own.

[swimguy23]

The school shouldn't design it's program with this expectation. It should definitely be considered atypical.

exactly.....an entire class should not be accommodated for those who fail or drop.....you set up a failing expectation

[DrShikima]

Seems to me There may have been an oversight throughout this post.

The school has made several changes to try and increase the 1st time pass rate on the USMLE and maintain it's current certifications.

Till now, the dean and school officials have placed all the burden of change onto the students.

Preparing for the board and participating in Kaplan this semester it has become clear that it is the curriculum that is deficient, with shared responsibility by a minority of students. An effort MUST be made to reform specific course curriculum to reflect both the current USMLE and clinical medicine. Instructors must have guidelines that identify the concepts essential to passing the USMLE.

ICM should be disbanded and integrated to all semesters, from day one students should be taught to think of the clinical implications of the material they are being taught.

Testing should be in true USMLE format, tertiary style questioning with clinical reference, not simple recall.

In its' current state, even with increased requirements for promotion between semesters the clinical student will be severely lacking compared to their US counterpart in the ability to quickly and successfully integrate clinical information. And it will thru NO FAULT of their own.

Your exactly right. They'd best fix their own house before depending on others to fix it for them.

[rnagy54]

For the time being, they are going to try to move BBCM to either 8 AM or 3 PM so that students would have the option of attending whichever suits their schedule. ICM would be moved to 1130 so that students would be out by 230 or so. I don't exactly know where that leaves Harvey lab. This seems like it's a reasonable temporary fix, but it means there isn't any change for people that are taking a morning class during 5th semester. I know from the third semester class, we have a lot of people who dropped Pathology and are planning on doing this.

Here's the problem, 5 semesters, 4 classrooms... kinda tough to have BBCM or another semester's class (if they extend to 6) without anywhere to put bodies. As it is, people are crammed in to rooms smaller than what should be for taking exams. Heck, during pharm last semester, we had to fill in the first 3 rows completely (making it easier for the cheaters to cheat, but not the topic here). I don't see them changing or optioning BBCM until they build more rooms.

Good luck,
Nagy

[swimguy23]

Seems to me There may have been an oversight throughout this post.

The school has made several changes to try and increase the 1st time pass rate on the USMLE and maintain it's current certifications.

Till now, the dean and school officials have placed all the burden of change onto the students.

Preparing for the board and participating in Kaplan this semester it has become clear that it is the curriculum that is deficient, with shared responsibility by a minority of students. An effort MUST be made to reform specific course curriculum to reflect both the current USMLE and clinical medicine. Instructors must have guidelines that identify the concepts essential to passing the USMLE.

ICM should be disbanded and integrated to all semesters, from day one students should be taught to think of the clinical implications of the material they are being taught.

Testing should be in true USMLE format, tertiary style questioning with clinical reference, not simple recall.

In its' current state, even with increased requirements for promotion between semesters the clinical student will be severely lacking compared to their US counterpart in the ability to quickly and successfully integrate clinical information. And it will thru NO FAULT of their own.

See i disagree to an extent, you'll be surprised about how much of the stuff from your classes not from kaplan that you need to integrate.....you need the basics from your courses to integrate kaplan.....also, you can definitely pick out the students in clinicals that only know kaplan.....i thought for the most part auc's courses were sufficient. You dont need to be learning clinical medicine during semesters 1-4.....theres no way for someone to possibly understand clinical correlates of biochemistry or even anatomy without pathology, history taking skills, physical exam skills, etc.....and its useless to put PE skills before you even know what youre looking for. I agree some courses need better testing styles but its up to the students to do as many review questions as possible......i havent seen myself "severely lacking" compared to my friends aka "US counterparts" that went to cornell, etc.....none of us had any clinical knowledge and all had to learn the same things.....i really dont think people can comment until they're there

[rnagy54]

See i disagree to an extent, you'll be surprised about how much of the stuff from your classes not from kaplan that you need to integrate.....you need the basics from your courses to integrate kaplan.....also, you can definitely pick out the students in clinicals that only know kaplan.....i thought for the most part auc's courses were sufficient. You dont need to be learning clinical medicine during semesters 1-4.....theres no way for someone to possibly understand clinical correlates of biochemistry or even anatomy without pathology, history taking skills, physical exam skills, etc.....and its useless to put PE skills before you even know what youre looking for. I agree some courses need better testing styles but its up to the students to do as many review questions as possible......i havent seen myself "severely lacking" compared to my friends aka "US counterparts" that went to cornell, etc.....none of us had any clinical knowledge and all had to learn the same things.....i really dont think people can comment until they're there

Here's the problem... the dean came out a few weeks ago stating that our curriculum is completely lacking and that it needed to be completely redone (yet they require 80% attendance for classes that are insufficient ????, I digress), but of course it won't be implemented for a "few" semesters.

However, I personally feel that Kaplan does a good job thus far of putting things together in a way that wasn't presented in class. I like the way Micro is being taught because it gives you ALL the facts about a particular organism and then moves on to the next. Compared to Dr. S's class where you learn part of an organism here, there and everywhere (very confusing, but still did really well in the class). I feel like I can retain the info better the way it's presented.

Oh well, my 2 cents.
Later,
nagy

[DRDRWMD]

I just wish the professors presented material in an organized manner. I spend more time almost trying to organize what they are trying to say than I do actually learning the material. It is annoying when I read the text to learn the material in an organized fashion in an attempt to figure out where the professor is coming from.

[options]

See i disagree to an extent, you'll be surprised about how much of the stuff from your classes not from kaplan that you need to integrate.....you need the basics from your courses to integrate kaplan.....also, you can definitely pick out the students in clinicals that only know kaplan.....i thought for the most part auc's courses were sufficient. You dont need to be learning clinical medicine during semesters 1-4.....theres no way for someone to possibly understand clinical correlates of biochemistry or even anatomy without pathology, history taking skills, physical exam skills, etc.....and its useless to put PE skills before you even know what youre looking for. I agree some courses need better testing styles but its up to the students to do as many review questions as possible......i havent seen myself "severely lacking" compared to my friends aka "US counterparts" that went to cornell, etc.....none of us had any clinical knowledge and all had to learn the same things.....i really dont think people can comment until they're there

I agree, the curriculum is fine. I don't think I have come across anything so far in kaplan that wasn't taught to me before. Kaplan does a great job of simplifying it for us and cutting the fat, so I think it feels like Kaplan it teaching it way better, but it's probably just because it is our second time around on this stuff and since it is trimmed down it is much nicer to learn.
The solution to improving our pass rates is not bringing on more professors, or changing the curriculum (I have no idea what we would change it to since every class basically follows board review books), or especially cracking down on attendence. The solution lies with the admissions committee, to never admit these 2 out of every 10 students who will never pass step I. People entering with MCATs below 23ish should be a red flag. I realize that this can probably never happen, because the more people they admit and give medical school a ''try", the more money the school gets. I guess the applicant pool just isn't big enough.
The other solution to dramatically improving pass rates, which has already been thought of by the current dean, is to increase the standards for our shelf exams. I have no data to back this up, but I'm willing to bet a doller that the same people who score high on shelf exams, score high on the USMLE, as well as the reverse. Now that they have tried to change this and raise our standards, there is alot of whining and moaning from the bottom 20% at AUC. Unfortunately, it is usually the dumbest that are also the loudest.
We need to keep our pass rates up for accredidation and more importantly for our loans. If they drop below 60% we all lose federal loans. With increasing class sizes, we are probably admitting more and more sub-par students, who may make it to 5th semester and sign up for step I. There has to be higher standards in place to keep these students from taking the exam until they are ready (if ever).

[rnagy54]

I agree, the curriculum is fine. I don't think I have come across anything so far in kaplan that wasn't taught to me before. Kaplan does a great job of simplifying it for us and cutting the fat, so I think it feels like Kaplan it teaching it way better, but it's probably just because it is our second time around on this stuff and since it is trimmed down it is much nicer to learn.
The solution to improving our pass rates is not bringing on more professors, or changing the curriculum (I have no idea what we would change it to since every class basically follows board review books), or especially cracking down on attendence. The solution lies with the admissions committee, to never admit these 2 out of every 10 students who will never pass step I. People entering with MCATs below 23ish should be a red flag. I realize that this can probably never happen, because the more people they admit and give medical school a ''try", the more money the school gets. I guess the applicant pool just isn't big enough.
The other solution to dramatically improving pass rates, which has already been thought of by the current dean, is to increase the standards for our shelf exams. I have no data to back this up, but I'm willing to bet a doller that the same people who score high on shelf exams, score high on the USMLE, as well as the reverse. Now that they have tried to change this and raise our standards, there is alot of whining and moaning from the bottom 20% at AUC. Unfortunately, it is usually the dumbest that are also the loudest.
We need to keep our pass rates up for accredidation and more importantly for our loans. If they drop below 60% we all lose federal loans. With increasing class sizes, we are probably admitting more and more sub-par students, who may make it to 5th semester and sign up for step I. There has to be higher standards in place to keep these students from taking the exam until they are ready (if ever).

Right on!!!
Nagy

[swimguy23]

Right on!!!
Nagy

how come you agreed with options but not me when we were saying the same thing?

[rnagy54]

how come you agreed with options but not me when we were saying the same thing?

Because the way he said it was the exact same thing I was thinking. I guess I just misinterpreted what you wrote. (my bad).

Nagy

[Scientific]

I think as far as the curriculum goes, that not only AUC, but most other medical schools foreign or US lack in organization of the material. There are ways to present the information so that you can go through large amounts of info in minimal time. There are a lot of trends in medicine and a lot of the time one concept can suffice for 10 pages of notes. The problem is that most professors (and not even Kaplan for that matter) teach the material that way. I don't think that AUC's curriculum is any worse than any other school.

[microphage]

Because the way he said it was the exact same thing I was thinking. I guess I just misinterpreted what you wrote. (my bad).

Nagy


you bad .

[AUCMD2006]

See i disagree to an extent, you'll be surprised about how much of the stuff from your classes not from kaplan that you need to integrate.....you need the basics from your courses to integrate kaplan.....also, you can definitely pick out the students in clinicals that only know kaplan.....i thought for the most part auc's courses were sufficient. You dont need to be learning clinical medicine during semesters 1-4.....theres no way for someone to possibly understand clinical correlates of biochemistry or even anatomy without pathology, history taking skills, physical exam skills, etc.....and its useless to put PE skills before you even know what youre looking for. I agree some courses need better testing styles but its up to the students to do as many review questions as possible......i havent seen myself "severely lacking" compared to my friends aka "US counterparts" that went to cornell, etc.....none of us had any clinical knowledge and all had to learn the same things.....i really dont think people can comment until they're there


oh but they can comment..or rather speculate, start rumors based on nothing and so on..you remember how it was on island.... pass rate is 40%, we are loosing clinical sites, we are all going to england for clinicals..and so on.

the basics in almost every class are well done, the question styles need work. you really can spot the kaplan memorizers on rounds..they answer questions just like the kids who read cliff's notes in english..very superficial...i got asked the mechansim for a tension pneumo and i recall dr b's lecture and went through it while the 2 people ahead of me could only describe clinical features and treatment. (just using as an example, i'been pimped to extinction many more times than i could answer one of these questions)

[AUCMD2006]

material...we do about 2-6 chpaters a week in a book...do you seriously think that any prof would be able to discuss each and every topic? this is why you are told time and time and time and time again to read the chapter and skim thier notes BEFORE coming to class. you will be surprised how few people do this and how much it helps if you actually do. i would try to do this for the 2 hardest classes ecah semester...i am far from the brightest person but i left with a B avg. trust me, if my thick head can do it anyone can...just look at micro, he's all grown up, taking histories, and lancing rectal boils with the best of them.

[microphage]

trust me, if my thick head can do it anyone can...just look at micro, he's all grown up, taking histories, and lancing rectal boils with the best of them.

I'm just gonna feed you some "mexican" food and call it even when u get there.

[AUCMD2006]

I'm just gonna feed you some "mexican" food and call it even when u get there.


EHEC 0157, or korean style? i think after step 2 i'l eat anything

[ds_in_tx]

I am interested in applying to AUC. Judging by Bill Cornbread's post, only 20 or so students out of the Jan 05 class have passed every course taken so far. If approximately 80 students entered the Jan 05 class, 75 percent of students have failed at least one class so far. Is this accurate??

Take it as you will, but I just got out my photo a few days ago from after the Anatomy final from the smallish May 05 semester and counted the people that I was absolutely sure that had not yet failed a class. Out of 71 (i think) students in the picture (there were a small handful of repeaters also, and a small handful of people not in the photo that hadn't yet taken the exam who were given extra time accommodations), I could only count 25 who had not yet failed a class. And this was at the beginning of third semester... Quite surprising, actually.

[options]

Take it as you will, but I just got out my photo a few days ago from after the Anatomy final from the smallish May 05 semester and counted the people that I was absolutely sure that had not yet failed a class. Out of 71 (i think) students in the picture (there were a small handful of repeaters also, and a small handful of people not in the photo that hadn't yet taken the exam who were given extra time accommodations), I could only count 25 who had not yet failed a class. And this was at the beginning of third semester... Quite surprising, actually.

I guess at least you have alot of room to spread out in the classroom.

[stateofequilibrium]

I guess at least you have alot of room to spread out in the classroom.

Not much room to hide though if you want to snooze.

[ChanceCount]

Take it as you will, but I just got out my photo a few days ago from after the Anatomy final from the smallish May 05 semester and counted the people that I was absolutely sure that had not yet failed a class. Out of 71 (i think) students in the picture (there were a small handful of repeaters also, and a small handful of people not in the photo that hadn't yet taken the exam who were given extra time accommodations), I could only count 25 who had not yet failed a class. And this was at the beginning of third semester... Quite surprising, actually.

This probably doesn't include people that have decided not to take a full load.

[AUCMD2006]

my class started with 64 people, 4 left the first week, and we finished with 48 of the original ones that left on time plus about 10 from the semester ahead of us.

[stateofequilibrium]

I think people are too hung up on statistics. The courses here are completely doable, just strive hard NOT to become a bad statistic. That is all.

[Bill_Cornbread]

That's funny considering the one that seems to making the rules teaches biostats.

[stateofequilibrium]

That's funny considering the one that seems to making the rules teaches biostats.

I meant the prospective students.

[AUCMD2006]

people thend to overreact and blow things out of proportion from 2nd sem through 4th so verify whatever they say with at least two other sources currently not in those semesters (basically a 5th semester or a newbie in clinicals preferably)

2nd semester the rumor was that 80% of people don't make it out of 3rd semester, i looked at transfering to ross. (everyone in my class save 3 went out of 3rd on time)

during my 3rd semester we were all going to europe b/c auc was loosing all its US clinical sites. i looked at transfering to spartan. (i started at a US site 4 weeks after passing step 1 and everyone that went to uk did so b/c they planned it or they made sure they could make the match)

4th semester was the pass rate for step 1 is 40%, we aren't taught what we need. so i looked for an extra program after leaving the island for an extra 8 grand... (after me wife talked me out of spending the 8k, i saw that the school gave me most of the info i needed, kaplan tied it in, and my 5 hrs a day studying were more than enough)

5th semester was spent mostly making fun of the 2nd-4th sem for beleiving the stupid rumors that they themselves started. and watching the 1st sem behave like college idiots running through the rotunda drunk with botles of jack waving in the air

in the words if public enemy "don't beleive the hype"

i.e. remember studentauc? all doomsday rumors were true to him, pass rate was miserable, all went to europe etc. last post he passed first try and was offered a list of US clinicals....

[tylertexas]

so this running through the rotunda thing in first semester, is it mandatory like the white coat ceremony?

[microphage]

5th semester was spent mostly making fun of the 2nd-4th sem for beleiving the stupid rumors that they themselves started. and watching the 1st sem behave like college idiots running through the rotunda drunk with botles of jack waving in the air


This is the stage that skipper is rite now.. just look at all this posts

[levator]

people thend to overreact and blow things out of proportion from 2nd sem through 4th so verify whatever they say with at least two other sources currently not in those semesters (basically a 5th semester or a newbie in clinicals preferably)

2nd semester the rumor was that 80% of people don't make it out of 3rd semester, i looked at transfering to ross. (everyone in my class save 3 went out of 3rd on time)

during my 3rd semester we were all going to europe b/c auc was loosing all its US clinical sites. i looked at transfering to spartan. (i started at a US site 4 weeks after passing step 1 and everyone that went to uk did so b/c they planned it or they made sure they could make the match)

4th semester was the pass rate for step 1 is 40%, we aren't taught what we need. so i looked for an extra program after leaving the island for an extra 8 grand... (after me wife talked me out of spending the 8k, i saw that the school gave me most of the info i needed, kaplan tied it in, and my 5 hrs a day studying were more than enough)

5th semester was spent mostly making fun of the 2nd-4th sem for beleiving the stupid rumors that they themselves started. and watching the 1st sem behave like college idiots running through the rotunda drunk with botles of jack waving in the air

in the words if public enemy "don't beleive the hype"

i.e. remember studentauc? all doomsday rumors were true to him, pass rate was miserable, all went to europe etc. last post he passed first try and was offered a list of US clinicals....

i second that rrod. every semester there was another "catastrophe". it has all worked out so far, especially if you turn a deaf ear to it all. also, i again for the bizilionth time say the highlighted above.

[Laurie S]

i.e. remember studentauc? all doomsday rumors were true to him, pass rate was miserable, all went to europe etc. last post he passed first try and was offered a list of US clinicals....

Hey, what happened to the rumor that I was Student AUC?

I wish I was in clinicals and passed Step I on the first try.

What happened to the 5 eye witnesses that swore they saw me write as StudentAUC?:)

Yes, posted rumors are a wonderful thing!

[rnagy54]

Hey, what happened to the rumor that I was Student AUC?

I wish I was in clinicals and passed Step I on the first try.

What happened to the 5 eye witnesses that swore they saw me write as StudentAUC?:)

Yes, posted rumors are a wonderful thing!

Well, in defense of all the people that ran with that rumor... since you left, there have been no posts from student AUC... take it as a coincidence or not.

Later,
nagy

[microphage]

Well, in defense of all the people that ran with that rumor... since you left, there have been no posts from student AUC... take it as a coincidence or not.

Later,
nagy

hummmmmmmmmm

maybe I'm studentAUC....


(Nah... I wouldn't waste that many posts on someone else)

[DrShikima]

hummmmmmmmmm

maybe I'm studentAUC....


(Nah... I wouldn't waste that many posts on someone else)


Your too short and your posts are too useless for you to be....:D

[Laurie S]

Well, in defense of all the people that ran with that rumor... since you left, there have been no posts from student AUC... take it as a coincidence or not.

Later,
nagy

LOL!:) I believe they stopped before I left. I think it may have been someone that did start in my semester, just guessing, I didn't even notice this poster until a couple of semesters before I left.

Let me guess, you must be the one that told Scott1981 that you were an "eye witness"?

Not to beat a dead horse.........but, if people actually were paying attention, my e-mail starts with ST........some people just don't take the time to go beyond the simple things. And on another note, yes, I read VMD several times a day in the computer lab but never posted since I didn't get a user name until this whole fiasco started.

I'm assuming that you haven't seen any posts from this person due to the fact that they are probably busy with clinicals??

Anyway, it was quite alarming to me to be labeled as this person since I thought very highly of AUC, and still do. I felt lucky to be accepted, and to make it as far as I did. Ask anyone who knew me.

I have absolutely no idea how that idea got planted in his head.

[AUCMD2006]

i asked studentauc to put up his/her experience with clinicals after they went through it and were forced to choose UK, or had to fight day and night to get a US slot... my guess is that things went smooth, they are in the US (by their admission), and they have nothing more negative to whine or add b/c there isn't a giant rumor mill that any cretin with a pie hole can participate in.........

[microphage]

i asked studentauc to put up his/her experience with clinicals after they went through it and were forced to choose UK, or had to fight day and night to get a US slot... my guess is that things went smooth, they are in the US (by their admission), and they have nothing more negative to whine or add b/c there isn't a giant rumor mill that any cretin with a pie hole can participate in.........

or maybe studentAUC lost his password and can't remember how to log in. probably suffered Step1itis

[stateofequilibrium]

Step 1? What? We still have to take that test? That wasn't addressed in the meeting =(

[Scott1981]

what the heck happened?........ i go away for 10 days and the whole place falls apart :lol:

[AUCMD2006]

what the heck happened?........ i go away for 10 days and the whole place falls apart :lol:

welcome back, hopefully you didn't fall apart after 10 days. it's all downhill from here brotha but it doesn't get annoying until you have to schedule it...:evil:

[Scott1981]

welcome back, hopefully you didn't fall apart after 10 days. it's all downhill from here brotha but it doesn't get annoying until you have to schedule it...:evil:

i take it that you are already to the scheduling part of it? :lol:

[AUCMD2006]

i take it that you are already to the scheduling part of it? :lol:

i am so busy that i can't get busy..... i am at the scheduling, cancelling re-scheduling part

[options]

what the heck happened?........ i go away for 10 days and the whole place falls apart :lol:

Are you valumd'ing from your honeymoon?... sad. ;)

[DrShikima]

what the heck happened?........ i go away for 10 days and the whole place falls apart :lol:
Nothing other than the usual.... move along... the droids you are seeking aren't here....

[Scott1981]

Are you valumd'ing from your honeymoon?... sad. ;)

nope, im back home. but hey, it did cross my mind during my days at sea off the baja peninsula. i was gonna do it while my wife (still sounds weird saying it) was at the spa. i figured it would be a VMD record to post from a boat many miles off the western mexican coast. but then i realized that the connection was not that fast and the fees were more than the dirtiest 1-900 number you can imagine :shock: :shock: .

[AUCMD2006]

nope, im back home. but hey, it did cross my mind during my days at sea off the baja peninsula. i was gonna do it while my wife (still sounds weird saying it) was at the spa. i figured it would be a VMD record to post from a boat many miles off the western mexican coast. but then i realized that the connection was not that fast and the fees were more than the dirtiest 1-900 number you can imagine :shock: :shock: .

i posted from la paz bolivia when i spent new years in the andes a few years ago. i was in the VIP lounge at the airport...i also posted from the andes on someones satellite laptop from top of the world

[Scott1981]

i posted from la paz bolivia when i spent new years in the andes a few years ago. i was in the VIP lounge at the airport...i also posted from the andes on someones satellite laptop from top of the world

well its a good thing that i didnt post. it would have been a heartbreak to spend that kind of money only to find out that you had me beat already :cry: .

i guess i should visit iraq or afghanistan and post :lol:

[AUCMD2006]

well its a good thing that i didnt post. it would have been a heartbreak to spend that kind of money only to find out that you had me beat already :cry: .

i guess i should visit iraq or afghanistan and post :lol:

yea now you have to explain your spending habits....and if it hasn't started yet don't worry my marriage padaw, it will...oh it will

[microphage]

i posted from la paz bolivia when i spent new years in the andes a few years ago. i was in the VIP lounge at the airport...i also posted from the andes on someones satellite laptop from top of the world

I posted from SE asia...using a PDA.