Read All Us Citizens And Green Card Holders

[Damian]

visit: new.petitiononline.com/Standish/petition.html

To all US citizens, permanent residents and GC holders who did not match in previous years and those that will not match this year (meaning no interviews for the current match),
visit: new.petitiononline.com/Standish/petition.html and sign the petition.
Copy & paste above link.

[Chianti]

That's a good idea. It still amazes me that manys PDs would rather take foreigners over Americans. Try going to any other country and taking a spot from one of their citizens- ain't going to happen.

[scoobz1981]

Well, if someone (maybe me) is more qualified than you, then I think it would be better that you take the MORE qualified person... don't u??? I guess quality means nothing...

Val

[Chianti]

A foreignor should never be picked over an American...even if the foreignor has 99/99 and the American 75/75. Pick your own citizens first, and then let the foreignors get the left-overs.

[scoobz1981]

I can understand why you are upset... insecurity is a terrible thing

Val
PS. Cant we all just get along?

[Chianti]

I'm not upset....I was just commenting.

Insecurity? Please.

[2cents]

funny how americans love to champion capitalism, and free competition; but when they get beat fair and square they hide behind protectionist rules. Truth is PD would rather have a foreigner with 99's than some stupid USIMG with 75's. Personally I would rather have the foreigner with 99s working on me in the ER than a USgrad with 75's.

Welcome to the global market...you wanted it, now you have to live with it!r

[miasma]

funny how americans love to champion capitalism, and free competition; but when they get beat fair and square they hide behind protectionist rules. Truth is PD would rather have a foreigner with 99's than some stupid USIMG with 75's. Personally I would rather have the foreigner with 99s working on me in the ER than a USgrad with 75's.

Welcome to the global market...you wanted it, now you have to live with it!r
damn right.

[Gavanshir]

funny how americans love to champion capitalism, and free competition; but when they get beat fair and square they hide behind protectionist rules. Truth is PD would rather have a foreigner with 99's than some stupid USIMG with 75's. Personally I would rather have the foreigner with 99s working on me in the ER than a USgrad with 75's.

Welcome to the global market...you wanted it, now you have to live with it!r

Wow this has to be my favorite post ever! That last line is a classic.

[jruizmd]

I agree with you, and by the way wasn't this country forged by foreings by all nationalities. As far as I know the only real americans are the Native americans.

[abdlsy]

Messageabdlsy
New

Topics: 3
Posts: 9
#1All US citizens, GC holders: Must Read #69655 holmes - 01/10/06 21:57 To: U.S. Lawmakers
DOL (Department of Labor) has clear regulations that US citizens and permanent residents are to be considered for vacant positions before such vacancies are offered to applicants from abroad.

In most fields, obtaining an H1B visa is a very difficult process and stringent conditions apply before an H1B petition is approved. In medicine it is just the opposite.

Administrators of hospital residency programs, in contravention of DOL rules and regulations, are routinely offering vacant positions to foreign medical graduates (FMGs) not living in the US without first attempting to fill such vacancies with qualified candidates residing within US borders.

Hospital residency positions, including internships, are filled through a centralized electronic application system. Anyone, anywhere in the world with internet access can use this system to apply for hospital residency positions. This allows applicants from abroad to apply at the same time as US citizens and permanent residents.
Since the number of applicants from abroad far outnumber US citizens and permanent residents applying for each vacancy, qualified US citizens and permanent residents are frequently never interviewed for some positions which ultimately are given to non-resident foreign applicants who are then supplied with H1B visas enabling them to work as physicians in the US.

Hospitals are therefore determining who receive visas. Screening of these H1B recipients is minimal at best as hospitals are virtually unfettered in sponsoring H1B visas for candidates they hire from abroad.

Hospitals receive federal, city and state funds from tax dollars, yet citizens and permanent residents residing in the US who contribute these tax dollars are being outnumbered and ignored.

There are currently thousands of unemployed, qualified graduates of foreign medical schools; both US citizens and permanent residents; residing in the US capable of filling these vacancies.

Only after all US citizens and permanent residents who apply are found not suitable, should programs be free to hire non-resident applicants. To interview and subsequently employ non-resident applicants without first interviewing US citizens and permanent resident applicants in order to ascertain their suitability, is utter disregard for US labor laws.

This practice is dangerous in that doctors provided with H1B visas in this manner are not screened as thoroughly as other prospective immigrants are. This practice must be stopped outright.

Please sign this petition and help safeguard the health and safety of our communities.
I ask your help to ensure that:
1.Current laws are respected and enforced.
2.Applicants are appropriately screened before being provided with H1B visas.
3.Regulations stipulating that vacant positions be offered to qualified US citizens and permanent residents before attempting to fill such vacancies with applicants from abroad are complied with.

There are already thousands of qualified, unemployed foreign medical graduates residing in the USA capable of filling these vacancies. Why take this unnecessary risk?

Please visit new.petitiononline.com/Standish/petition.html (http://new.petitiononline.com/Standish/petition.html) ;sign the petition and forward copies of this petition to your Congressmen, Senators, City and State representatives, newspapers, radio stations and civic organizations in your state.

Posted: Jan 11, 06 - 00:11

Agrada
Junior Member
http://www.prep4usmle.com/forum/attachments/avatars/grada.gif

Topics: 8
Posts: 44
#2Thanx

I'm a US citizen foreign medical graduate, this should be the rule.


___________________
Damn it when orthopaedic surgery means $$$....Now i realized that it's all about the money.. " Ayman Grada"
Posted: Jan 11, 06 - 15:20

sasim
Junior Member

Topics: 4
Posts: 73
#3I totally agree with you.

Posted: Jan 11, 06 - 23:27

[abdlsy]

Messageabdlsy
New

Topics: 3
Posts: 9
#1All US citizens, GC holders: Must Read #69655 holmes - 01/10/06 21:57 To: U.S. Lawmakers
DOL (Department of Labor) has clear regulations that US citizens and permanent residents are to be considered for vacant positions before such vacancies are offered to applicants from abroad.

In most fields, obtaining an H1B visa is a very difficult process and stringent conditions apply before an H1B petition is approved. In medicine it is just the opposite.

Administrators of hospital residency programs, in contravention of DOL rules and regulations, are routinely offering vacant positions to foreign medical graduates (FMGs) not living in the US without first attempting to fill such vacancies with qualified candidates residing within US borders.

Hospital residency positions, including internships, are filled through a centralized electronic application system. Anyone, anywhere in the world with internet access can use this system to apply for hospital residency positions. This allows applicants from abroad to apply at the same time as US citizens and permanent residents.
Since the number of applicants from abroad far outnumber US citizens and permanent residents applying for each vacancy, qualified US citizens and permanent residents are frequently never interviewed for some positions which ultimately are given to non-resident foreign applicants who are then supplied with H1B visas enabling them to work as physicians in the US.

Hospitals are therefore determining who receive visas. Screening of these H1B recipients is minimal at best as hospitals are virtually unfettered in sponsoring H1B visas for candidates they hire from abroad.

Hospitals receive federal, city and state funds from tax dollars, yet citizens and permanent residents residing in the US who contribute these tax dollars are being outnumbered and ignored.

There are currently thousands of unemployed, qualified graduates of foreign medical schools; both US citizens and permanent residents; residing in the US capable of filling these vacancies.

Only after all US citizens and permanent residents who apply are found not suitable, should programs be free to hire non-resident applicants. To interview and subsequently employ non-resident applicants without first interviewing US citizens and permanent resident applicants in order to ascertain their suitability, is utter disregard for US labor laws.

This practice is dangerous in that doctors provided with H1B visas in this manner are not screened as thoroughly as other prospective immigrants are. This practice must be stopped outright.

Please sign this petition and help safeguard the health and safety of our communities.
I ask your help to ensure that:
1.Current laws are respected and enforced.
2.Applicants are appropriately screened before being provided with H1B visas.
3.Regulations stipulating that vacant positions be offered to qualified US citizens and permanent residents before attempting to fill such vacancies with applicants from abroad are complied with.

There are already thousands of qualified, unemployed foreign medical graduates residing in the USA capable of filling these vacancies. Why take this unnecessary risk?

Please visit new.petitiononline.com/Standish/petition.html (http://new.petitiononline.com/Standish/petition.html) ;sign the petition and forward copies of this petition to your Congressmen, Senators, City and State representatives, newspapers, radio stations and civic organizations in your state.

Posted: Jan 11, 06 - 00:11

Agrada
Junior Member
http://www.prep4usmle.com/forum/attachments/avatars/grada.gif

Topics: 8
Posts: 44
#2Thanx

I'm a US citizen foreign medical graduate, this should be the rule.


___________________
Damn it when orthopaedic surgery means $$$....Now i realized that it's all about the money.. " Ayman Grada"
Posted: Jan 11, 06 - 15:20

sasim
Junior Member

Topics: 4
Posts: 73
#3I totally agree with you.

Posted: Jan 11, 06 - 23:27

[Kirst]

i don't usually waste time on a ridiculous post but this is far too entertaining.

well i guess if you can't beat the competition, there is always resorting down to eliminating it! don't forget to go after US graduates too after tackling down the true FMGs. i mean dear god, something has to be done about this heart breaking discrimination against foreign trained american blood! or would taking true FMGs out of your turf cut you enough slack to feel statistically comfortable? too bad US graduates are not quite insecure enough to join your party though. you could have doubled up on true FMGs.

i wonder who isn't an immigrant in north america. my parents certainly were. they're citizens now, volunteering for local immigration services. but they must be crazy or something because like the above petition suggests, once you become a citizen, you should be fighting in all sorts of ways to keep the rest of the foreigners out! after all, we were all immigrants ourselves or by our forefathers but hey, apparently background isn't the issue here.

"500,000 or more enter illegally without inspection across america's thousands of miles of land borders or remain in the country past the
expiration of their permitted stay.''
-statement of senator robert c. byrd at hearings before a subcommittee of the committee on appropriations united states senate (one hundred ninth congress first session 2006)

i think foreigners legally training as tax paying post graduate residents in US with H1B visa are the least bit of the threat to the quality of life of the citizens or the security of your nation. i'm sorry that they just impose a personal threat to your own insecurities.

who was it that said losers obsess with what everyone else is doing?

[McGillGrad]

A foreignor should never be picked over an American...even if the foreignor has 99/99 and the American 75/75. Pick your own citizens first, and then let the foreignors get the left-overs.

You are right. And American Caribbean Grads should never be picked over American AMGs even if the Caribbean grad had 99/99 and the AMG had a 75/75.

Let the American Caribbean grads get the leftovers.

[Kirst]

well put by cal454 :)

[Cal454]

Any government should put the needs of its citizens as a first priority. The reason being is that the government is a servant of the people and a direct representative of said citizens. One of these needs that should be addressed is quality. It is my humble opinion that if two individuals are equally qualified, it would be in the best interest of the country to take a citizen over a foreign person. After all, the citizen is a constituent of the government. That being said, quality and the ability to provide a service to the country should be the biggest priority. If a foreign person is shown to have a needed skill, is able to follow and abbey the laws, and possesses the quality needed; he/she should be regarded as a valuable asset. Thus, as a valuable asset, this person being able to practice and thrive within the society in fact serves to enrich and gives back to said society. This is where merit comes into play. As a person that uses United States medical facilities, my main concern is quality. The origin of my Physician is not a factor. An example being that both my family practice and sports medicine MDs are from India. I believe them to be of the highest quality and display professionalism that is rarely seen.

As Kirst said all North Americans (with the expectation of Native Americans), have at the very least an immigrant legacy. Yet, now that the population is growing and the USA has switched from a manufacturing industrial nation to a service orientated economy more scrutiny has been used in regards to foreign workers.

[BabaOriley]

"The foreigners are stealing all the jobs!" - A gas station attendant in my hometown.

[medstud2b]

............

[2cents]

You know why this thread is so funny...it because it reeks of sour-grapes. Here we have a bunch of americans unable to get into a US med school. Unable to get a decent score on the USMLE, and unable to get a residency. Rather than take that as a sign they are not cut out for medicine they some how try to blame foreigners.
It must have been the foreigners that made you party too much in under grad, and a foreigner that sabatoged your MCAT, and a foreigner that distracted you during basic sciences etc...
You know the Natzis blamed the jews for all the problems of germany....

While your taxes might contribute to residency programs; nearly every tax payer in the USA would rather a competent foreigner verses some dumb whining USIMG.

I have a better solution for the petition signers: why not work a little harder and become more competative. that way you can hold your head high in you're residency program rather than reliying on affermative action for USIMGs.

[medstud2b]

............

[medstud2b]

............

[2cents]

Yes it is all americans democratic right to sign petitions. I just wish you would use your privalige for something more productive than xenophobic exclusion of your betters. And yes, this is all about USMLE failures and non-selection into residencies. The petition oozes bitterness and sour grapes of those USIMGs that could not gain access to postgrad training.

No american LCME or IMG student has to worry about finding a residency position if you have done well on the USMLE or have excellent LOR's. The fact you are crying about foreigners stealing your residency spots indicates you are one of those who are unable to compete.

I am not sure why you went off on the voting tangent. No one ever discussed that topic, and any educated american knows a petition is not the same as voting. You know tangental thoughts are a sign of mental illness....

The fact that PD's are taking foreigners in ever larger numbers just proves my point. Americans want competent physician not just american physicians. Good luck with the petition you'll need it

[medstud2b]

............

[ROCKYMAN]

A foreignor should never be picked over an American...even if the foreignor has 99/99 and the American 75/75. Pick your own citizens first, and then let the foreignors get the left-overs.

I love a good cat fight. America is a very different place than it was in 1920, when people were "proud" to be Americans, learn the damn language, etc. and work together. I started noticing a very bad smell in about 1985, when I identified a pustule of ignorant people who pretended to be Americans. I decided to coin the chief sign of the new disease entity, the name of which I am chosing and will soon publish, as "an obcessive desire to be IN the United States without being an American" , i.e., to use, abuse, milk, exploit and gut the system without respecting the system. It is irelevant whether the user and abuser has citizenship papers of any type. Inside they are as unamerican as possible.

I have a bit of a conflict to resolve, though. I tend to like achievers. I resolved my conflict by observing that quite a few of the questionable characters who earn what look deceptively like excellent "scores" got those by a long process of using everyone near them, a distinctly un-american trait. There are truckloads of them at Ross Med.

Preference needs to be given to United States citizens who meet the professional requirements. Every American citizen knows that if he visited a foreign country he would be put at the bottom of the heap, so the non-american (citizenship or not) whiners need to shut up. Anyone who has studied literature knows the advice "you can not eat your cake and have it too" (often transposed). The United States leads all countries on the planet Earth in generosity and opportunity, unfortunately, to a fault. Nothing of any financial consequence was given by "foreigners" to the poor American citizens displaced by hurricane Katrina, yet Americans who had little to spare sent tens of millions of dollars to survivors of the tsunami.

When it comes to the employment interview, the program director needs to examine the individual without prejudice. If character flaws are noticed, though, or un-american values, whether by blatant behavior or innuendo, the applicant needs to be rapidly eliminated.

I was born in the U.S.A. My country is NOT FOR SALE !

No time to spell check. I need to urinate in the bathroom by the medical library, where I am certain 99 % of the toilets seats have urine on them. Get the hint ?
-----------------------------------------------------------------------

[Gavanshir]

I have a bit of a conflict to resolve, though. I tend to like achievers. I resolved my conflict by observing that quite a few of the questionable characters who earn what look deceptively like excellent "scores" got those by a long process of using everyone near them, a distinctly un-american trait. There are truckloads of them at Ross Med.
Jon Stewart isn't here so I'm just going to act his part for a few minutes and laugh at your little comment here. A DISTINCTLY un-american trait!! Hahahahah.

Nothing of any financial consequence was given by "foreigners" to the poor American citizens displaced by hurricane Katrina, yet Americans who had little to spare sent tens of millions of dollars to survivors of the tsunami.
"I'm not expecting much from foreign nations because we hadn't asked for it. I do expect a lot of sympathy and perhaps some will send cash dollars. But this country's going to rise up and take care of it," Bush told ABC's Good Morning America.

The State Department said offers so far had come from Belgium, Canada, Russia, Japan, France, Germany, Britain, China, Australia, Jamaica, Honduras, Greece, Venezuela, the Organization of American States, NATO, the Netherlands, Switzerland, Greece, the Dominican Republic, El Salvador, Mexico, South Korea, Israel and the United Arab Emirates.

If character flaws are noticed, though, or un-american values, whether by blatant behavior or innuendo, the applicant needs to be rapidly eliminated.
..preferably with a shutgun.

I was born in the U.S.A. My country is NOT FOR SALE !
Said old man "Rocky" as he made his way back to the mountains.

No time to spell check. I need to urinate in the bathroom by the medical library, where I am certain 99 % of the toilets seats have urine on them. Get the hint ?

You're going to sit on them?

You are obviously the one and only American with the only absolutely American values. OH the NERVE of these foreigners to enter your country and exploit you!

[BabaOriley]

Men peeing while sitting down. A new trend?

Have a read:

http://www.happyrobot.net/words/thewayiseeit.asp?r=4902

[medstud2b]

............

[BabaOriley]

http://www.thatsweird.net/Pictures/crazy%20woman.jpg

[2cents]

Any medical "doctor" would know the diagnosis of a axis-1 disorder does not preclude significant achievment. As you claim to be a doctor you should know there are many high achievers with depression, bipolar, schizophrenia, etc...Such a large over sight makes me wonder what kind of "doctor" you claim to be.

I did enjoy your rant with lines of legacy, and freedom. However we all know americans are falling behind in the global marketplace which includes education. In order to maintain the competative advantage and the traditional position of global leader America has to become more competative. That is why PD's will continue to take high achieving foreign MD's over low achieveing USIMG's. These foreign MDs will hopefully stay in the US and replace the complacent americans with a more ambitious, and higher achieving type.

The US has always been a place that idealized the most ambitious, and hard working people. A country that attracts the best from around the world so that they can excell, and thus enrich the country. Your petition flies in the face of this tratition; and thus you could wear the "un-american" label.

No matter, you are free to petition all you want. However as long as foreign MDs with 99s continue to contribute more to residency programs than US MD's with 75's the doors will be open to foreigners.

You can't fight the future.

[JetsPickVYoung]

Sorry, but I'd rather have the best man/woman for the job work with me, regardless of nationality. If that means granting visas for highly qualified candidates, so be it.

[2cents]

This the exact same thread as the one in the residency matching forum, and they should be merged.

[abdlsy]

I totaly agree with medstud2b, good job in explaining everybody about the logic of this important commotion.

[abdlsy]

Any medical "doctor" would know the diagnosis of a axis-1 disorder does not preclude significant achievment. As you claim to be a doctor you should know there are many high achievers with depression, bipolar, schizophrenia, etc...Such a large over sight makes me wonder what kind of "doctor" you claim to be.

I did enjoy your rant with lines of legacy, and freedom. However we all know americans are falling behind in the global marketplace which includes education. In order to maintain the competative advantage and the traditional position of global leader America has to become more competative. That is why PD's will continue to take high achieving foreign MD's over low achieveing USIMG's. These foreign MDs will hopefully stay in the US and replace the complacent americans with a more ambitious, and higher achieving type.

The US has always been a place that idealized the most ambitious, and hard working people. A country that attracts the best from around the world so that they can excell, and thus enrich the country. Your petition flies in the face of this tratition; and thus you could wear the "un-american" label.

No matter, you are free to petition all you want. However as long as foreign MDs with 99s continue to contribute more to residency programs than US MD's with 75's the doors will be open to foreigners.

You can't fight the future.


YOU WILL GET A CHANCE, WHY R U SO SO INSECURE, AND REGARDLESS OF THIS PETION, MAJORITY OF PDs PREFER SOMEBODY WITH GREEN CARD HOLDERS AND US CITIZENS AS THEY DO NOT HAVE TIME FOR J1/H1 HASSLE DOCUMENTATION, SCORE 99 U WILL BE FINE, YOU ARE A PHYSICIAN AND SHOULD SHOW PROFESSIONALISM INSTEAD OF DIAGNOSING MENTAL ILLNESSES ETC.

[medstud2b]

............

[medstud2b]

............

[Skipper]

it comes down to we own those spots because our tax money payed for it so it should go to a US citizen

not some person from some far away land who has never spent a penny in US taxes---

no matter if they are more qualified the spot should go to a US citizen---it works like that in their countries---if i go to pakistan they would still pick a pakistanian over me because he is from that country, why cannot we use that policy or do we have to feed all the hungery people of the world---

skipper

[Skipper]

For those of you who have a problem with this petition; you should try to enter a residency program in Austrailia! Good Luck, I don't care how many LOR's you have or how good your USMLE scores are they aren't going to take you!!!

that is a great point---

people who have problem with this petition are people who arent US citizens or legal residents---

skipper

[Aviv Imanuel]

"I have a better solution for the petition signers: why not work a little harder and become more competative. that way you can hold your head high in you're residency program rather than reliying on affirmative action for USIMGs."

AMEN.




You know why this thread is so funny...it because it reeks of sour-grapes. Here we have a bunch of americans unable to get into a US med school. Unable to get a decent score on the USMLE, and unable to get a residency. Rather than take that as a sign they are not cut out for medicine they some how try to blame foreigners.
It must have been the foreigners that made you party too much in under grad, and a foreigner that sabatoged your MCAT, and a foreigner that distracted you during basic sciences etc...
You know the Natzis blamed the jews for all the problems of germany....

While your taxes might contribute to residency programs; nearly every tax payer in the USA would rather a competent foreigner verses some dumb whining USIMG.

I have a better solution for the petition signers: why not work a little harder and become more competative. that way you can hold your head high in you're residency program rather than reliying on affermative action for USIMGs.

[2cents]

no matter if they are more qualified the spot should go to a US citizen---it works like that in their countries---if i go to pakistan they would still pick a pakistanian over me because he is from that country, why cannot we use that policy or do we have to feed all the hungery people of the world---

skipper

If a Pakistani does his med school in the Carib he is considered a IMG in pakistan, he competes with the other IMGs for a residency.

If a canadian does med school in the Carib they are considered a IMG in canada, and they compete with the other IMGs for a residency.

see a trend?

PDs are not doing charity (...[sic]feed all the hungery people of the world) by accepting foreign IMGs. They prefer them over the dumber USIMGs because they preform better, get more fellowships, bring in more grant money, and garner more presitge than the USIMGs. If you want this to change then preform better.

Like I said before, good luck with the petition. I plan to get my residency the old fashioned way....hard work, and may the best man win!

[medstud2b]

............

[BabaOriley]

This thread isn't worth responding to, but I'm bored so here goes. medstud2b, I've read your previous posts and I can see why a petition like this is important to you. You don't even have a college/university degree, and you are going to a school in the Dominican called UCE which I've never heard of, and which isn't part of the so-called "Big 3" or even the expanded "Big 5". So statistically, your chances of getting a residency (or even passing your boards) are slim compared to other IMGs.

'Oh no he didn't!'

Yep, I did. I went there. I'm bad.

And after going to a school like this, and still seeing that 'foreigners' are doing better than you, I can see your concern. So if a petition like this makes you think your chances for getting a residency will be better, then go ahead. Like you said, it's your democratic right. You'll need all the help you can get. And I'm sure the same applies to the majority of the clowns who sign that petition.

From the point of view of a PD, their concern, if any, with regards to an IMG is whether or not they are well qualified and able to do the job. Their concern is not that they came out of a vagina on US soil and grew up watching the A-Team, NFL football, The Cosby Show, and MTV to be a true born American. If anything, their concern would be with USIMGs who couldn't get into a school in the US, rather than an IMG who is well qualified and is coming to the US for the good opportunities, and not just because, as i said, they came out of a vagina on US soil. But, do what you have to do to get your residency.

[abdlsy]

Mr 2cents, why are you prolonging this discussion and spend time on your studies, thats so rude of you to blindly make stupid assumptions about everybody, you cannot stop this petition or change peoples opinions, like u mentioned just work hard thats all.cool down man.

[abdlsy]

Hey Babaorieley, thats the reality, live with it, these words of yours matter no more, except its shows the quality of personality you carry, with this attitude even a 99 wont help u here in USA hospital, because besides merit, you need to have cool tolerant personality so work on that.

[medstud2b]

............

[medstud2b]

...........

[BabaOriley]

Oriley: Your accusation is not worth responding to!

Not surprisingly medstud2b, now you've resorted to sending me an abusive pm. I'm going to have to send it to the moderators. I also noticed you edited your past posts where you said you have no degree and a poor GPA. Also not surprising.

[BabaOriley]

Even though you deleted your past posts, you are unable to delete other people's posts where they quote you, such as this one:

Quote:
Originally Posted by medstud2b
Thanx Neil!

I dont quit hav a **, but I do hav sum of my prereq's don. my gpa isn't great but ok and i was thinkg of statring med school soonr rether than latr!

medstud2b


So, don't waste your time pm'ing me trying to convince me, as you did, that you have a ** in mathematics, an MS in Management, and an MD from UCE in '04.

[JetsPickVYoung]

that is a great point---

people who have problem with this petition are people who arent US citizens or legal residents---

skipper


WRONG!! I'm perfectly "legal" here and I take offense to the petition.

This shouldn't be about where you are from or where you were trained, but rather can you do the job?

[JetsPickVYoung]

PDs are not doing charity (...[sic]feed all the hungery people of the world) by accepting foreign IMGs. They prefer them over the dumber USIMGs because they preform better, get more fellowships, bring in more grant money, and garner more presitge than the USIMGs.

I would watch the blanket statements if I were you. Spewing pseudo-facts such as these gives you just about as much credibility as the authors of the petition.

[medstud2b]

............

[azskeptic]

My PM was hardly abusive! You are the one who chose your AVATAR not I, go figure now you don't even want to be responsible for your own ******* I can't say the word, I might get turned in for abuse. I also noticed in your posts all about racial prejudice in America, Geez you are all over the place.... well there is a saying in America:

"There is no place like home...-->....Go There!"

Quit complaining about how wrong we Americans are, eh! Be happy where you feel comfortable, I am sure the US will get along just fine without your help, eh!

As for the petition, I am certain it doesn't make a hill of beans, it will change nothing, so all this ranting is useless nonsense!


medstud2bmedstud2b, I expect folks to be civil here. No fighting allowed. Discuss with vigor but nothing personal.

[Skipper]

WRONG!! I'm perfectly "legal" here and I take offense to the petition.

This shouldn't be about where you are from or where you were trained, but rather can you do the job?

then what is wrong with residency spots that are paid for by americans going to americans---

why is it we have to train, feed, cloth, and protect the rest of the world

what have those 3rd world countries done for us lately? NOTHING---

skipper

[medstud2b]

...........

[azskeptic]

Mr. AZSKEPTIC: You finally woke up congratulations. always awake but figure everyone is an adult here and will act like one. Otherwise I become the Sheriff.

[microphage]

always awake but figure everyone is an adult here and will act like one. Otherwise I become the Sheriff.

Can I be deputy?

:evil:

[BabaOriley]

PLease don't let my sign in ID lead you astray into thinking that I am a dumb, whining, moaning, growling, drunken, lazy, non-competitive, uneducated American medical student. I am not a med stud, I am a Doctor and a well educated individual!

With the imaginary MD you received from UCE in 04', I'm sure you'll have no trouble getting an imaginary residency, and then you can treat imaginary patients in your head. Start with yourself.

[azskeptic]

Can I be deputy?

:evil: sure...when we need a possee

[medstud2b]

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[medstud2b]

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[medstud2b]

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[BabaOriley]

I see.....so....you're not a med student wannabe pretending to be a doctor...but rather, a doctor pretending to be a med student wannabe? Having graduated med school almost 2 years ago as you say, I assume that now you're a 2nd year resident at a good hospital in a competitive position because of your exemplary step 1 and 2 scores. And since residents have such little free time due to their long hours, you like to relieve stress by pretending to be a med student wannabe in what little free time that you have?

So...you chose the name 'medstud2b', asked questions about UCE and inquired about wanting to start medicine there despite the fact that you don't have a degree as you claimed. Then, you suddenly changed your mind and decided to stop pretending, and you deleted those posts, messaged me that you have a **, MS, and an MD, and posted a picture of your MD to convince me of this? Because even though you wanted to hide the fact that you were a doctor originally and wanted to pretend you were a med student wannabe, you changed your mind and now you want to convince people of the fact that you're a doctor?

Is this correct?

[medstud2b]

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[Mooby]

I have to agree with medstud2b. It's just good financial sense for a country to invest in its own citizens. Residency training at public institutions should give U.S. citizens priority.

Global competition is a good thing. And we all agree that it's good that the U.S. imports a lot of talent. But, I don't think we're talking about the best foreign competition going against morons in the U.S.

The best are the best and they will always (or at least should always) have opportunity here in the states. But, I think a lot of the situations this applies to are ones where average to low-average (but still pretty good) U.S. grads are going against average to better than average foreign competition. This is a gray area. Sometimes foreign grads are chosen preferentially because of extensive clinical experience. But, the U.S. system forces U.S. grads into a position of low clinical experience due to medical liabilities.

It's all a lot more complex than "Just take the candidate with the better numbers and experience". The U.S. system tends to beat down students and little time is given to study for licensing exams. Foreign students overcome significant adversity coming from some places and in others medicine is a cakewalk compared to the U.S.

The longevity of this thread alone shows it is a highly debatable topic.

To those that have contributed comments on the subject and medstud2b, good job, this is an interesting thread.

To those that have made personal attacks, I hope you take a different approach in your practice of medicine. If doctors sit around calling each other morons in conference all day, I think the person that loses the most is the patient.

[BabaOriley]

Sometimes foreign grads are chosen preferentially because of extensive clinical experience. But, the U.S. system forces U.S. grads into a position of low clinical experience due to medical liabilities. It's all a lot more complex than "Just take the candidate with the better numbers and experience". The U.S. system tends to beat down students and little time is given to study for licensing exams. Foreign students overcome significant adversity coming from some places and in others medicine is a cakewalk compared to the U.S.

So....you're saying foreign grads have an advantage because they get more clinical experience...and are therefore better with patients? And are therefore better qualified? And that's not fair....for whom? You...or the patients?

And you say foreign grads have more time to study for the boards which is why their scores are better? How much time do you need? If foreign grads have better scores and more clinical experience...is this hurting the patients? Also I think you misunderstand, this thread is about foreign IMGs versus USIMGs, so whether or not the US system gives US students little time to study for the boards or not is irrelevant here because the USIMGs are going to the same schools with the foreign IMGs that are being discussed here, and have the same amount of clinical experience.

So we're talking about two sets of students with the same training, but one has US citizenship and lower scores, and a petition (which clearly will accomplish nothing other than demonstrate the desperation of the signees) to help US citizens with lower scores have priority.

[BabaOriley]

You know, those of you who signed this petition, if you're really passionate about this, I think you should follow through on it. You guys should message each other and keep in touch, and you can eventually form your own hospital, and call it 'The All-American Hospital'. A hospital dedicated to giving residency spots to USIMGs who wouldn't otherwise get spots because they had lower scores than FIMGs.

You can even have your own slogan like 'All-American Hospital, for the true Americans', or something snappy. I'm sure you would get support from likewise-minded people who believe the foreigners are stealing the jobs, and when they have serious medical issues, they can come be patients at your hospital. Darwinism at it's finest.

But a word of advice: get good liability coverage.

[godlover]

funny how americans love to champion capitalism, and free competition; but when they get beat fair and square they hide behind protectionist rules. Truth is PD would rather have a foreigner with 99's than some stupid USIMG with 75's. Personally I would rather have the foreigner with 99s working on me in the ER than a USgrad with 75's.

Welcome to the global market...you wanted it, now you have to live with it!r

Quiet the quote and very true.

[Ben Casey]

When u r treating patients, it is not only about high USMLE scores and working doubletime, etc. A lot of it entails knowing and understanding the culture of the people, not to mention the language, of the host country u r living in. It is not like being a cab driver. Many times, patients are already insecure, and any type of unfamiliarity( accents, different cultural attitudes) will further exacerbate their anxieties, which should be avoided in any type of health care setting. I truly believe that doctors should go back to their respective country of citizenship to provide healthcare. If u r after the money, go into something else.
It is easy to get high scores on the USMLE. But there is more to it than that to be a doctor. Furthermore, if PD'S are of the belief that they would rather have foreigners as residents( due to their docility, or whatever), it is truly a shame for an American to base his decisions in such a manner.

[trauma]

If there is a real shortage, the solution should be expanding US medical school enrollment if establishing new schools will be a problem. I don't have a problem with US citizens and permanent residents getting priority since the USA is their country and nobody should tell them what to do with it.

[ironpalm83]

When u r treating patients, it is not only about high USMLE scores and working doubletime, etc. A lot of it entails knowing and understanding the culture of the people, not to mention the language, of the host country u r living in. It is not like being a cab driver. Many times, patients are already insecure, and any type of unfamiliarity( accents, different cultural attitudes) will further exacerbate their anxieties, which should be avoided in any type of health care setting. I truly believe that doctors should go back to their respective country of citizenship to provide healthcare. If u r after the money, go into something else.
It is easy to get high scores on the USMLE. But there is more to it than that to be a doctor. Furthermore, if PD'S are of the belief that they would rather have foreigners as residents( due to their docility, or whatever), it is truly a shame for an American to base his decisions in such a manner.

If getting high scores on the USMLE is as easy as u have mentioned, then STUDY HARD AND QUIT crying~!

[FlindersGrad]

For those of you who have a problem with this petition; you should try to enter a residency program in Austrailia! Good Luck, I don't care how many LOR's you have or how good your USMLE scores are they aren't going to take you!!!

I'm wondering why you have made several references to Australia in this thread. From your rantings, it is quite obvious you have trouble understanding the value of your medical system, both domesticly and internationally. However, I suggest that you refrain from making comments regarding other countries medical systems, which you clearly do not understand and have had no experience with. There happens to be plenty of hard working and highly qualified foreign medical graduates working throughout Australia.

Or perhaps, did you try coming to Australia after being turned away from the US? Unfortunately for you, Australia is also not interested in noncompetitive, mediocre, whining USIMG's.

Oh...and learn how to spell Australia, mate.

[medstud2b]

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[FlindersGrad]

I am not your "Mate"!
No, I have no interest in your country, I love my country, U.S.A.!
This forum is suppose to be about helping others not ridiculing others!
If you want to ridicule, then go to another site, maybe myspace would be more to your liking!
I don't recall that Australia (the spelling of) was on the USMLE! Sorry, if I mispelled it again.
Good Day!
medstud2b

No, the spelling of Australia was not on the USMLE (why would it be), but I bet it was on your 8th grade geography test. I guess it just gives us an idea of how much you learned along the way.

You have a very warped way of helping others. As far as I can tell, all you're interested in doing is hurting highly qualified students in favor of poorly qualified Americans/residents.

You talk so boldly of what your founding fathers did for your country, yet you seem to have no idea. Your fore fathers founded America on ideals of equality and freedom. A melting pot of cultures and religions. A place where anyone could go and build a life for themselves....free from persecution. I think your previous countrymen would be very disappointed in you. If you can't deal with freedom...go live in a communist country.

You deserve to be ridiculed for your warped sense of patriotism, and I encourage others to join in!

[medstud2b]

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[medstud2b]

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[josephmedman]

honestly..if a US grad is not matching over an IMG they are doing SOMETHING wrong..even with a 75/75..i mena gimme a break..are these people with 75/75'd that are AMG's applying to dermatology or ortho?..if they wanted the better fields they should have studied harder for the boards..my take on it..your board result is pretty directly correlative to yoru knowledge of medicine..and like previous posts said..I would rather, and i know EVERYONE here would rather any doctor from any country with 99/99 perform heart or brain surgery on them, than the person ranked last from Howard University Med. School that was placed twice on academic probation, and made a 75/75 on his fourth attempt..gimme a break..if we talk extremes here that every AMG should get positions over every IMG we are nto talking democracy..I am a US citizen..im just saying this because these people just want to live the american dream..you guys were fortunate enough to be born into-it..take a step back and look at what you are saying objectively and put your self in their shoes..they worked their BUTTS off to get the scores they did, and they deserve it every bit as much as any IMG..does everyone here ONLY buy american cars??..when did we become a communist nation..i think i missed that one..

[FlindersGrad]

Too bad MedStud isn't smart enough to see things as they are and should be. I guess he's too busy trying to figure out the difference between freedom and free-ride. Obviously he is trying to give a lot of undeserving, poorly qualified American students "free-rides".

Oh, just to really make you mad MedStud......I'm doing a residency in the US! Deal with it!

[medstud2b]

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[medstud2b]

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