residency rejection

[jbuzz]

Last night I called a 2nd year resident from a family practice residency near my hometown, just to ask a few questions and see how residency life was treating him. (he is a U.S. graduate) I told him I'd be attending a foreign medical school and he told me there is no way I would ever get into their program. He said my application would go in the trash before it was really even looked at. He wasn't being rude or anything, just being honest. The residents in that particular program have a lot of pull when it comes to choosing their new residents. They typically know most of the applicants because they've done an elective rotation there. He said it makes the program look bad on paper if they have foreign grads. They do have one Ross graduate who is a third year, so I asked about him. He said that he kind of "slipped in under the radar somehow." I was a little discouraged after our conversation. Mostly because this was a program that I would be very interested in, but also because it concerned me that foreign grads will be viewed in this way at other residency programs. Have any Saba grads (or others) had this type of reaction when applying for residency?? I haven't given up yet by any means.... I still plan on doing a 4th year elective there (if they'll let me!), that will give me an opportunity bust my can and shine. Plus the assistant director of the program is a family friend, which might help. Any thoughts or personal experiences from you all would be really helpful. Thanks!

[mutig25]

You might want to conact someone with legal authority, such as the AMA. As far as I know this is discriminatory. Candidates are to be selected based on performance not origin of education, provided their medical school is approved.

[BIGOSUFAN]

While it might be discriminatory, it is real life. Deal with it and move on.

[mutig25]

Wow! I can't belive you said that. Apparently, civil and human rights are not a big issue for you. If that's the attitude we should all take, then I guess women would not be voting and African Americans would still be enslaved.

[mutig25]

Just to provide you with some more information on residencies for IMG's per the AMA, and then I'll be done with this.

http://www.ama-assn.org/ama/pub/category/1549.html

"Q. Can you provide me with those residency programs that are willing and interested in accepting IMGs?

A. The policy of the AMA is that residency selection should be on the basis of merit and not on where one received his medical education. This policy is regularly made known to program directors. However, the policy has no force with program directors and, regrettably, other criteria are often used. For some, it is a long and arduous task to be selected for a residency position, and there is little that the AMA can do to change this except to continue to announce its policy and urge fairness. Specifically to the question, we do not have the information on residency programs that is being requested.

Q. What services does the AMA provide through its IMG Services Unit and from the IMG Section?

A. It is very important to understand the way in which the AMA provides support to IMG issues, and to understand also that the AMA is unable to offer individualized assistance to IMGs or to any other group of physicians, for that matter. The AMAÆs primary function is to establish policy for all matters dealing with health care, through the mechanism of the House of Delegates, and to make certain that adopted policy carries into programs and legislative efforts. All issues are thoroughly debated in the House of Delegates which is why it is very important for IMGs to be represented, and be AMA members. Otherwise they have no input into AMA policy decisions. Beyond that, there are not adequate staff or resources for assistance to individuals. Additionally, Internal Revenue Service regulations prohibit the AMA from undertaking any activity that would inure to the benefit of an individual member. The answer to the question then is that the AMA is a democratic organization that creates and implements policy on all medical issues, both scientific and socio-economic; it does not provide specific services to individual members.

Q. Can you tell me those states that are favorable to IMGs?

A. There are a number of states with significant numbers of IMGs in practice. Generally, though, these are large states that have greater needs and opportunities. They are also states with medical societies that sponsor either an IMG Section or an IMG Committee. Beyond that, there is almost no way to determine those that are more favorable to IMGs. Some place artificial barriers in the way of licensure or make it more difficult for an IMG to obtain a license, but it is almost impossible to challenge these barriers because they apply to all. The AMA has advocated for many years that there be similar residency requirements for IMGs as for U.S. medical graduates and has model legislation to this effect that it regularly distributes, but progress has been slow to bring about change."

[stephew]

while a program can most certainly decide they're less interested in you for being an IMG (what is the match list other than a programs assessemnt of who they feel is most impresive?),I wouldnt be too discouraged just yet; getting into family practice is not particularly difficult, and if you are a good candidate, apply; write letters. Get great letters of rec.
Good luck

[JV]

Hey JBuzz,

You'll make it. Keep your eyes on the prize and turn a deaf ear to people who might not fully understand the entire system. I am not saying that the deck isn't stacked against us in some instances. However, nothing could be as dire as the situation your "friend" described. I wonder if he has ever asked his senior resident from the foreign school directly how it could possibly be that he got through this massive radar under which he was able to sneak. Sounds like the head of the individual you contacted would be too big to miss on most radar screens.

Good luck and never ever give up.

[Rwl22]

Just the same kind of crap foreign grads have been fighting for 30 years. There's no question some residencies look down their nose at us rightly or wrongly. But there are plenty who don't. You'll land somewhere.

[etomidate]

I wouldn't get too worked up about this. The fact is in every specialty, there are programs that don't take FMG's or for that matter DO's. That's just a fact of life. Also there are some residencies that are nearly impossible for FMG's to get. Dermatology, and Neurosurgery. Orthopedic surgery is very competative, but FMG's have matched in this, and SABA had an optho match last year. Add ENT and Urology to the hard list. radiology is very competative, but Saba had a match this year. Emergency medicine is still not easy, and anesthesiology is moving up the list every match. Nonetheless it is still possible to match at a very good program.Those programs that :lol: take FMG's require good board scores, often higher than for US grads. So the bottom line is, do as well on the USMLE as you can.

That said, I find it interesting that an FP program has this type of attitude. FP is one of the least competative residencies. Every year 600-700 spots go unfilled in the match, and programs that may have that stuffy attitude more often than not take anyone they can get in the scramble.

[jbuzz]

Just wanted to say thanks for replying to my post. I appreciated your insight. I think it was more a matter of who I was talking to rather than a representation of the residency as a whole. I got the feeling this kid was just a cocky young doctor. I have talked with dozens of foreign grads around the country about getting their residencies and all had positive experiences and matched in specialty of their choice. I think we hear horror stories once in a while then freak out thinking that is the case with everybody. Good students with good board scores will always get a good residency.... that's the bottom line. Thanks again!

Jbuzz

[ResearchingGuy]

Although the AMA specifically says that Residency Programs should not discriminate against IMG's, I'm sure that a lot do. To misquote my Mother "you don't want to play with people who won't accept you for who you are". I'm also sure that many programs won't consider grads from certain regions or specific schools either, but those folks seem to find a Residency anyway. I truly believe that if we stick to our guns, we'll get to where we want to be.

One of my favorite stories I've read on "the boards" is FLK's account of how he was actively recruited for a Fellowship by a program that had tossed his Residency app into the wastebasket because he was an IMG. As I recall, he did the same to their offer (apologies to FLK if I didn't get it all right -- please stop by and give us the 411).

It's my thought that one day, when we all get through this, that we can make some positive changes in the system. Maybe a little revolutionary, but it's post Black-Monday and my head is spinning at the moment :? .


Best of Luck!


P.S. Howya doing JV? We miss you guys here! Please keep in touch.