ACGME sites and Green States

[Junito]

Here is a list from the PPt lecture given by Dr. G as to which states require all ACGME ("Green") core rotations:

Alabama

Arkansas

California

Conneticut

DC

Delaware

Florida

Georgia

Kentucky

Maine

Massachusetts

New Jersey

New York*

Oklahoma

Oregon

Pennsylvania

Texas

Virginia

* Only rotations done in the state of New York must be completed in ACGME or AOA approved programs.

Hope this helps.



Juni

[Bedazzled]

Thanks Juni! This is a huge help! :) This should be a sticky in my opinion.

Christen

[skidoc42]

I'm with Bedazzled...

Keep this post around, it's great! This should answer a ton of questions in the future. If anything changes with any one state, just update the thread! Good stuff!

skidoc42 ;)

[Junito]

Green rotations are rotations done at a hospital that has a residency in that rotation. I.e. Florida hospital has a residency program in Family Practice, therefor the family practice rotation is green. Green rotations can also be when a hospital has residents and an attending for that rotation at the hospital. Wyckoff Hospital does not offer a residency in Pediatrics, but does have pediatric residents & a pediatric attending at the hospital (these scenarios occur at hospitals that are affiliated with universities, like Wyckoff is affiliated with Cornell). Hope this helps.

[Junito]

FL: Florida Hospital, Orlando: Family Practice

GA: Atlanta Medical Center, Atlanta= surgery, medicine, ob/gyn, FP

IL: Jackson Park, chicago= FP
******* Reese, Chicago= Medicine, Ob/gyn
Dr. Apantaku, Chicago= FP

MD: Sheppard Pratt, Baltimore= Psych
Harbor hosp, Baltimore= Med
St. Agnes, Baltimore= Surgery, Med

MI: Synergy, Saginaw= Surgery, Med, Ob/gyn, FP

MO: St. John's Mercy, St. Louis= Ob/gyn
Forest Park, Bridgeton= FP

NY: Cabrini Medical Center, NY, (contract pending): Surg, IM, Psych
St. Barnabus, Bronx= IM, Peds,
St. John's Episcopal, Far Rockaway= Psych
Wyckoff Heights Med Center= IM, PEDS, FP, Surgery

OH: Huron Hospital, cleveland= Surg, IM

UK:
Stepping Hill Hospital, Stockport: all core rotations
Whipps Cross Hospital, London: all core rotations
Barnsley District GH, Barnsley: all core rotations

These are the green rotations according to the list given out yesterday to the 5th semesters here in Windham. If anyone spots an error please let me know.

[Dr. Fodes]

can a student do all his/her core rotations in NY and have them all be ACGME approved? i read the recent replies with the list of states/hospitals/core rotations avaible and NY didnt have all the core rotations listed. i am interested in practicing in NJ and according to another reply, one must do all core rotations at ACGME hospitals. i would like to do all my cores in NY. is it possible? thanx

[cubmd]

I think you can do Ped at Sacred Heart Women’s Hospital, Pensacola. They are green book for ped. Go to www.sacred-heart.org/residencyprograms.asp (http://www.sacred-heart.org/residencyprograms.asp) you will see that they have pediatrics residency also and it is even listed in FREIDA www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgmrslt/1,1239,,00.html (http://www.ama-assn.org/vapp/freida/pgmrslt/1,1239,,00.html) I am not sure about this but it looks pretty obvious to me that we can do both rotation Ob\Gyn and Ped in the same hospital.

[cubmd]

What about the electives, did they say something

[Junito]

Just to clarify some confusion, I only listed the required core rotations for the school. Remember core rotations include the following:

Internal Medicine, 12 weeks
Surgery, 12 weeks
Pediatrics, 6 weeks
Obstetrics & Gynecology, 6 weeks
Family Practice, 4 weeks
Psychiatry, 6 weeks

I did not post any electives (ie EM or Geriatrics) because you have to set them up yourself. Some rotations listed may seem like they are not green but they are ie: Wyckoff hospital has only a FP residency, but has Cornell students who are in Residency rotating in Pediatrics (with an attending) therefore satisfying the ACGME criteria for the Ped rotation. My previous post is a list compiled from the school which stated which sites were ACGME approved ("Green"). There were quite a few that I did not list, like in Kissimmee (hope I spelled it right) FL, where you can do all rotations, but they are blue. Hope this resolves any questions. For more info on rotations refer to this link:

http://www.stmatthews.edu/rotation.html

Hope this helps.

Juni

[Bedazzled]

Thanks so much Juni for all of your hardwork!

One question though... do any of the states require that electives/selectives be "green" or does it only matter for the cores?

Thanks,
Christen

[Junito]

The requirements for electives varies from state to state. Some states like NY accept DO (AOA) rotations, others do not like Pennsylvania. Some states require that you have more than 46 weeks of greens (hence this will also include some of the Selective and Elective rotations). This varies greatly between states. For a list of some state medical boards you can check:

www.fsmb.org

I only listed the states that require all cores to be green.

Juni

[Junito]

can a student do all his/her core rotations in NY and have them all be ACGME approved? i read the recent replies with the list of states/hospitals/core rotations avaible and NY didnt have all the core rotations listed. i am interested in practicing in NJ and according to another reply, one must do all core rotations at ACGME hospitals. i would like to do all my cores in NY. is it possible? thanx

Once Cabrini becomes official, it will be possible to do all green cores in NYC.

Juni

PS I did not list Cabrini before because the contract was/is pending.

[Junito]

Hello everyone,
I have updated the clinical sites that are available for SMU which are green. I did not add the blue sites, will do so in the future. Note that Cabrini (contract still pending) and the UK sites were added.

Juni

[Junito]

Ok, I am a bit new on this but this is what I gather from all the information I found...Let's say you are interested in doing an EM rotation at the Synergy Medical center at Saginaw, MI. First here is a link explaining what to do:
http://www.schi.org/res_program/em_electives.html

You first fill out the proper forms, contact SMU about doing a rotation there, and also contact the person who handles the paperwork for the department you would like to do a rotation in. Make sure all the paperwork is filled in way in advance (some say 3-4 months in advance, I would do 6). Then wait and see. Some people suggest that you try to meet the person in charge, and that way can make an impression (increases your chances of rotating there). This is what I have gathered so far. If anyone has anymore info, please educate us on the topic. Thanks.

Juni

[Junito]

Florida:
Florida Hospital, Kissimmee: all core rotations

GA:
Atlanta Medical Center: Pediatrics, Psychiatry

Ridgeview Institute, Smyrna: Psychiatry


IL:
Jackson Park Hospital, Chicago: Surg, Med, Peds, OB/GYN, Psych

Dr. Frank Apantaku, Chicago: Surg, Med, Peds, OB/GYN, Psych


MI:
Synergy Medical, Saginaw: Ped, Psych


MO:
Christian Hospital Recovery Center, St. Louis: Psych

Christian Hospital Dept of Psych, St. Louis: Psych


NY:

*Peninsula Hospiatl, Far Rockaway: Surg, IM, Peds, FP

*St. Barnabas Hospital, Bronx: Surg, OB/GYN, FP

*St. John's Episcopol, Far Rockaway: Surg, IM, PEDs, OB/GYN, FP

*Wyckoff Heights, Brooklyn: OB/GYN


The above rotations are all Blue, with the exceptions of the ones in NY, which are AOA/DO rotations. Some states like Penn do not accept DO rotations. Check with your state medical board. Hope this helps

Juni

[cubmd]

Good job juni711,

I have a question. Can we do all the electives in one state? I mean can we do all electives or more than two in the same estate? I don't know where I read that Fl only let us do two electives in that state. I am not sure about this but will be very inconvenient if it is true.

I will appreciate some info. Specially from people who have done the electives already.

[Junito]

You can do as many electives as you can as long as SMU is allowed to do rotations there. FL may seem a little tricky, for they say if your school is not approved to do rotations there, you can only do 2 rotations per year, but SMU does have approval (look at the green and blue sites posted earlier). So we can do as many 4th year electives in Florida, as long as the hospital you apply to accepts you. Hope this helps.

Juni

[Nimmuk]

Juni,

Have you decided to to all your cores in FL?

[Neuro4u]

On your list of green book states, I do not believe that CT, DC, FL, GA, KY, MA, or NJ require all green book cores. States like Tx has changed some of their rules and I am not sure about them. PA is very strict on many accounts. After reading AL it looks as though you have to sell your soul (just joking). VA does not state all green book either on the board website.

If you find something in writing which I am overlooking, then please correct me.

Example, I know someone who graduated from Saba doing a residency in Orlando, FL who did not have any green book clinicals.

If you can do green book it is surely best.

[SMU-Info]

Although I am sure many of you find this information helpful, please remember to contact SMU’s clinical department (or a school official) with specific questions. Also, it is important to verify this information with the school as your rotations become closer, as changes do sometimes occur.

[Coloradoman]

Do any of you know if there are any SMU students who have done (or currently) rotations in Colorado, I heard my state only takes green rotations.
I want to come back after 2 years to do rotations, any advice would be greatly apppreciated.

Coloradoman

[am405]

According to the list put up by JUNI711, even with the Cabrini contract going through, there would be no greenbook ob/gyn rotation in New York.

[Junito]

Good observation Am405, here is where it gets confusing (we are both right, and wrong). The OB/GYN rotations in NYC are AOA/DO rotations, which some states accept (like NY) others do not (Penn, and a few others). So the OB/GYN rotations may be green in one state, but blue in another. Weird. That is where we have to be deligent and check for ourselves.

Juni

According to the list put up by JUNI711, even with the Cabrini contract going through, there would be no greenbook ob/gyn rotation in New York.

[justdoit]

On your list of green book states, I do not believe that CT, DC, FL, GA, KY, MA, or NJ require all green book cores. States like Tx has changed some of their rules and I am not sure about them. PA is very strict on many accounts. After reading AL it looks as though you have to sell your soul (just joking). VA does not state all green book either on the board website.

If you find something in writing which I am overlooking, then please correct me.

Example, I know someone who graduated from Saba doing a residency in Orlando, FL who did not have any green book clinicals.

If you can do green book it is surely best.

FYI: For those interested in Virginia....I can tell you right now they are strict and will not bend. If you read what's written....it's very gray. The verbage really doesn't give you any specific answers as to what they will or will not except. No matter what written information you find regarding each state's rules and regulations you should still call to verify what you think it says. I called on three occasions (as if to get a different answer) and they told me each time all cores have to be greenbook and they do not except DO rotations. They also do not consider family medicine a core rotations....I'm not sure why that is??

Hope this is helpful.
:cool:

[dadofsmustudent]

http://www.acgme.org/acWebsite/home/home.asp click on this link and click the search programs/sponsors link on left hand side.

List programs by sponsor allows you to look at green sites by state

List program by specialty allows you to look at green sites by specialty


You can see details on the school, including other green specialties for that school. This will be helpful for 4th year electives/selectives, as well as residencies. Never to soon to start making contacts for residencies.

ps: to bad Maine Medical center is not one of St. Mathews' sites, they are green for all clinicals...

[Junito]

I am leaning towards the UK. It just makes life a little easier for me overall.

Juni



Juni,

Have you decided to to all your cores in FL?

[mo5225md]

but techinically...would st. matthews help you jump state to state to make sure you have all green rotations, core or electives? I wouldnt mind running around as long as everything is done correctly. I would do as many as i could in ny, and then for the ones left over go out to other states.

[miasma]

yeah, same here, i don't mind moving at all if all my rotations are green. i plan to do as many as i can in ny and michigan, then moving to other states if i have to.

[Junito]

There is an official SMU forum for clinicals. Some of these questions were answered already there. here is the link:

http://smucayman.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=9&sid=60914ea1094d7424eb25123f86af701e

[Junito]

Just to let you know that there has been an update. The Surgery rotation located at Wyckoff Hospital (Brooklyn, NY) is now considered ACGME approved. It is listed under Bronx-Lebanon. I updated the Green & Blue rotations posts in light of this new change. Hope this helps.

Just found out that the Surgery rotation at Wyckoff is ACGME. It is listed under Bronx Lebanon Hospital on the ACGME site. It states that they have 2 tird year and 3 4th year residents at Wyckoff. This answers my question and hopefully will help anyone else who is doing a surgery rotation at Wyckoff. As of 2004 Wyckoff surgery had been a DO rotation. It is listed on the ACGME as other particpating institution, not as sponsor or major participating instiution.

The quote was from the Ross University Clinical Forum. Look under Wyckoff.

[ES21]

If its ACMGE approved then it is considered green, is that right?

Juni- you have to speak with Smu-info and have her release some info.

[SMU-Info]

If its ACMGE approved then it is considered green, is that right?

Juni- you have to speak with Smu-info and have her release some info.

Yes ACGME approved means green. All of this information is presented to 5th semester students in the 5th semester orientation. I don't know what other information you feel needs to be released, but if you contact the SCHOOL I am sure the correct department (clinicals) would be happy to help you out.

You can also always visit www.acgme.org (http://www.acgme.org) to find out more information AND you can contact the state boards to find out their rules.

[isa]

How about if we do a family practice rotation where residents only very rarely come (indian reservation with occasional volunteering residents).
Is it a green book family practice rotation?
Thanks

[Nimmuk]

A green rotation consist of a rotation that have a residency in that specific rotation. For example, doing a family practice rotation where there is family practice recidency

[Junito]

SMU no longer is using the OB/GYN rotation in Pensacola, FL. The list has been updated to show this change.

[miasma]

why no more ob/gyn rotation there?

[Junito]

why no more ob/gyn rotation there?

That is something I would like to know also, especially when there aren't too many ACGME approved rotations in OB/GYN to begin with. I posted a similar question on the SMU clinical forum.

AS I HAVE ALWAYS ADVOCATED IN THE PAST, POST ON THE SMU CLINICAL FORUM FOR UP TO DATE INFORMATION.

[charger5001]

What is the link to the SMU clinical forum...?

[Junito]

http://smucayman.com/forum/viewforum.php?f=9&sid=f630c2f77c4082c4441c6dfa952dcc71

[Junito]

Yes ACGME approved means green. All of this information is presented to 5th semester students in the 5th semester orientation. I don't know what other information you feel needs to be released, but if you contact the SCHOOL I am sure the correct department (clinicals) would be happy to help you out.

You can also always visit www.acgme.org (http://www.acgme.org/) to find out more information AND you can contact the state boards to find out their rules.

Last I checked this was a public forum. People should feel free to post their opinions freely and if they post something in error, should be politely told that they have done so. I have never claimed to be an authority on this forum. On the contrary, I have on many occasions directed people to the official SMU clinical forum.

I have numerous emails between myself and the clinical office. I remember one time asking for help in knowing if Florida required all green rotations for cores. I was basically told to look for it myself, when they infact they had the powerpoint presentation on hand that Dr. G made on the green states that lists Florida as a green state. It is reasons like these that students have taken it upon themselves to figure things out. It is a real travesty.

Some students recently contacted Texas Medical Board about licensure and were told that the school (SMU) should know this information and should make it available to students. This information from two SMU students on the Maine Campus who approached me about Texas. That is the reason forums like these are up and running (and quite popular).

I may not be in clinicals, yet I have received information first hand from numerous people. Before I came to SMU I was at Ross, and had many friends who were upper classmen. My cousin is an Attending for a Trauma Surgery unit in a major city. I have another friend who is a Department head at Jamaica Hospital in NYC. These are some of the people I seek information from concerning clinicals.

Let me make an anology...I may have never seen a Dinosaur, or will I ever. Yet I can tell you their dietary, social, and even mating habits. All this from research.

[onesolo]

Juni I commend you for the things that you do and the posts that you post. You have helped to lead many people in the right direction via this fourm with very good and intelligent information. Again I thank you and I'm sure that alot of other people do as well.

[Junito]

Sorry duplicate post.

[Junito]

With the addition of Lincoln Medical, the UK will not be the only place where all core rotations can be done in one city. Bottom line, you can do all cores at ACGME approved rotations in NYC!!!!!!! Yeah Baby, SMU is the best!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

:dancepar:

[Nimmuk]

What cores will we be allowed to do at Lincoln?

[onesolo]

That's awesome news.... now if we can get something in Mass. that would be even better.

[miasma]

MO: St. John's Mercy, St. Louis= Ob/gyn
Forest Park, Bridgeton= FP

i am looking at the acgme site, and at st. john's mercy, in addition to ob/gyn, isn't IM and FP also green there? and at forest park, i also see IM as being green. i'm not sure how these school-hospital contracts work, but just thought i'd ask....

[JTP73]

MO: St. John's Mercy, St. Louis= Ob/gyn
Forest Park, Bridgeton= FP

i am looking at the acgme site, and at st. john's mercy, in addition to ob/gyn, isn't IM and FP also green there? and at forest park, i also see IM as being green. i'm not sure how these school-hospital contracts work, but just thought i'd ask....

subscribing... are you asking or telling? Since I am from the Lou (St Louis), I would love to know if St John's Mercy Hospital is green in any way, and if this hospital is an option for SMU students. It's centrally located and is constantly growing. Forest Park is in a nice spot too, but the ownership is less than average. In Bridgeton, the hospital is actually DePaul, and this is a bit north, but a large hospital nonetheless and part of a bigger hospital system. Can anyone comment on these hospitals and if they are SMU clinical sites?

[miasma]

well, currently those ARE smu clinical sites. but as i posted previously, i would like to know if they are green for the rotations i specified.

[SMUGrinch]

:confused: ....i wonder whats going on in ATL and IL?

[mjbfsu]

i agree, what is the deal with IL green rotations? what hospitals are they at and how many green can you do in one hospital there?

[Junito]

i agree, what is the deal with IL green rotations? what hospitals are they at and how many green can you do in one hospital there?

I heard from some of my friends at Ross that Jackson park is considered green (ACGME approved), yet I see it listed as Blue on the SMU clinical rotations list given out last semester. The Ross students say that some states will accept rotations done at a site with a FP rotation that is ACGME approved. In other words if I do an OB/GYN rotation at Jackson Park, it will be considered Green because the FP rotation at Jackson Park is ACGME approved. This is what was told to me by a student. Don't take it as Gospel. Maybe someone can check to see if this is true. I checked the ACGME site and I couldn't find JP listed as a participating institution for the other rotations.

[mjbfsu]

does anyone know how you find out what states require all green rotations in order to obtain a residency/liscensure?

[Junito]

does anyone know how you find out what states require all green rotations in order to obtain a residency/liscensure?

Look at the beginning part of this thread, you will find your answer there.

[julestx]

For TX, ALL rotations have to be 'green' (or acgme accredited residency areas for rotation).

Juni - what you mentioned about doing rotations where there are residents and an attending...some States will require a letter of approval or equivalency from the ACGME for licensure later on, specifically stating that the rotation is equivalent to an accredited residency. IE> that the peds unit at Wyckoff is equivalent to their accredited peds programs.

[julestx]

Correction to what I just posted is that TX accepts rotations done in approved osteo programs as well - as do some of the other States. I know you're not specifically looking at TX (are you?) but its the only State I truly keep up with for licensure policies and regulations. I find PA's reg's to be very similar...so I assume some of the other States must be that way too.

Something to keep in mind: Create a folder for documentation while in clinicals. Every time you do a rotation, get something in writing which notes your rotation dates, get it signed by the attending or the registrar at that residency program, etc. (And it wouldnt hurt to include your # of hours, even). Its easy to do this one month at a time, and then after your 3rd and 4th year are done, you have a significant file of information to present to the licensure committee in the State you're interested in. I have heard horror stories of how difficult and time-consuming it can be after your final years are over and you're applying for licensure or temp licensure, and you have to try to communicate with people to get documentation done. Sometimes, its long-distance, snail-mail, and people have come and gone since then. So doing this now may save you in the long run.

[Junito]

Thanks Jules for the update. Will have a folder for clinicals, that is a great idea. I am more interested in FL, NY, or MI, but it doesn't hurt to know about other states, for I may change my mind later, and want to go to Texas. Just want to have as many options as possible. Once again thanks for the info.

[Boxer316t]

Is there a definitive regarding florida and if all rotations have to be green? I have been searching and seeing different answeres. I hope someone can address this. Also, while searching , it was said that any rotation outside that US is considered green book? So any rotation done in UK, regardless if the hosptial is a teaching hospital, is green book, correct? I wouldn't mind going to UK. Are there any students that post here that are in UK doing clinicals. I wonder if they like it.

[Junito]

Concerning Florida, I saw on the ppt that Dr. G gave out last semester that FL was on the list of states that require green rotations. SMU by the way is approved in Florida, so we can do rotations there. The problem is that only one rotation in Orlando is green. Man, I would of loved to done all my rotations there. I have my family there. My mom is 10 minutes from the hospital there. Sucks! Yet I have heard that some states (cali & a few others) accept rotations that are done at a site that has an ACGME approved rotation in Family practice. So doing an OB/GYN at the Florida site would be acceptable as a green rotation due to the FP being green. I would not suggest doing this though. But many of my friends at Ross are doing this, they are going to Jackson Park, which has the same situation as the Sites in Orlando. Hope this helps.

[Boxer316t]

Juni

Thanks for the replying. I guess I will keep my questions on the board for everyone to benefit from them. I live in Orlando and thats why im asking. It seem with florida, there is no definitivee answer as to what type of rotations are needed to be eligable for licensure. I remember a few of you called the state boards, but did anyone try getting ahold of floridas licensing board? If someone gives me the number for the florida board, I will gladly call them and ask. thanks

[studentMD]

Juni

Thanks for the replying. I guess I will keep my questions on the board for everyone to benefit from them. I live in Orlando and thats why im asking. It seem with florida, there is no definitivee answer as to what type of rotations are needed to be eligable for licensure. I remember a few of you called the state boards, but did anyone try getting ahold of floridas licensing board? If someone gives me the number for the florida board, I will gladly call them and ask. thanks

u can find contact info for all state medical boards at the FSMB site .. specifically http://www.fsmb.org/directory_smb.html

[Junito]

Ok guys will be posting some available electives that can be done at the SMU clinical sites...


path at wyckoff. 3-4 pathologists. 8-4 (sometimes you can leave early). no autopsies to view. mainly small surgical specimens and a few hrs at the microscope per day. not too demanding.


Neuro at wyckoff: 1-2 hrs per day, for 3-4 days per week. good for board review. No patient contact, all classroom discussion/lectures.


Cardio at wyckoff: worth doing for 2 weeks. you will learn your EKGs really well. no patient contact. all classroom discussion/lectures. 2 hrs/day.


This was taken from the Ross clinical forum. Hope this helps.

[Junito]

MEDICINE
AMB MED (2/4)
CARDIOLOGY (2/4)
ENDOCRIN (2/4)
GERIATRICS (2/4)
HEM/ONC (2/4)
GI (2/4)
ID (3/4)
NEPHROLOGY (4)
PULMONARY ICU (4)
SUB-INTERNSHIP (4)
PHYSICAL MED AND REHAB

OB/GYN SUB-
INTERNSHIP (4)
GYN SURGERY (2/4)
MATERNAL FETAL MED

PEDIATRICS (weeks)
NEO/NICU (2/4)
PEDS E.R. (2/4) SUB-INTERNSHIP (4)

FAMILY PRACTICE
SUB-INTERNSHIP (4)
PREVENTIVE MEDICINE (4)

SURGERY
CARDIO-THORACIC (4)
E.N.T. (4)
PLASTIC (4)
VASCULAR(4)

FREE ELECTIVES
ADULT E.R. (2/4)
ANESTHESIOLOGY (2/4)
NEUROLOGY (2/4)
PAIN MANAGEMENT (2/4)
PATHOLOGY (4)
RADIOLOGY (2/4)

[ES21]

what do all these numbers mean Juni?

[onesolo]

Yeah can you please tell us what the numbers mean? Either way, thanks for the info.

[Nimmuk]

They mean weeks!

[Junito]

Go ahead and feel free to post on this thred, It's going to take me a while to gather all the information. I'm trying to get in touch with upperclassmen in other sites than the ones posted, to find out what electives can be done at the SMU clinical sites. In the mean time feel free to ask any questions. If anyone finds anything please post it.

[Junito]

Here are electives that can be done in Saginaw, Michigan:

EMERGENCY MEDICINE

Emergency Medicine (MED 630)



FAMILY PRACTICE


Family Practice Outpatient (FMP 610)

Family Practice "Sub-Internship"(FMP 610)



INTERNAL MEDICINE

Allergy (MED 616) (PHD 609)

Cardiology (MED 611)

Critical Care (MED 630)


Dermatology (MED 613)


Endocrinology - Metabolism (MED 620)


Gastroenterology (MED 615)


Hematology (MED 609)


Infectious Diseases (MED 618)


Internal Medicine (MED 628)


Nephrology (MED 612)


Neurology - Adult (MED 617)


Oncology (MED 610)


Physical Medicine and Rehabilitation (MED 626)


Pulmonary Medicine (MED 614)


Rheumatology and Immunology (MED 627)




OB-GYN

Advanced Ob/Gyn (OGR 609)

Ambulatory Ob/Gyn (OGR 609)


Gyn Surgery (OGR 609)


High Risregnancy (OGR 610)


Reproductive Endocrinology and Infertility (OGR 611)



PATHOLOGY

Clinical Pathology (PTH 608)


Surgical Pathology (PTH 608)



PEDIATRICS

Advanced Inpatient Pediatrics (PHD 609)

Allergy (PHD 609) (MED 616)


Community Pediatrics (PHD 609)


Neonatology (PHD 612)


Pediatric Critical Care (PHD 609)


Pediatric Neurology (PHD 609)



PSYCHIATRY

Psychiatry (PSC 609)


RADIOLOGY

Radiology (RAD 609)


RESEARCH

Research (HM 608)


SURGERY

Anesthesiology (SUR 618)

E.N.T. (SUR 609)


Neurosurgery (SUR 614)


Ophthalmology (SUR 615)


Orthopedic Surgery (SUR 613)


Plastic Surgery (SUR 610)


Thoracic and Cardiovascular Surgery (SUR 616)


Urology (SUR 611)

[manleyjb]

Just a few words from the Arkansas MB website. No mention whether your rotations must be green or blue. I will email them to get further clarification.

Requirements for a Physician's License


You Must Be Twenty-One Years Of Age.

You Must Be Of Good Moral Character And Have Not Been Guilty Of Acts Constituting Unprofessional Conduct, As Defined In Arkansas Medical Practices Act Sec. 17-95-409.

You Must Complete A Background Check As Defined In Arkansas Medical Practices Act Sec. 17-95-306.

Licensure Is By Credentials:
Credentials Must Be Verified From The Originating Source, Verifications Received From Applicants Will Be Returned.

Licensing Examinations Meeting The Board Requirement Are As Follows: Flex, National Boards, USMLE, National Board Of Osteopathic Exam COMLEX, LMCC Or State Exams Taken Prior To 1975.

You Must Be A Graduate Of An Approved Medical School And Request Your School Provide A Certified Copy Of Your Transcript To The Board.

Licensure Fee Of $400 And Processing Fee Of $100 ($500 Total) Is Required At Application.

If You Are An International Medical Graduate, You Must Also Provide:

Verification Of Clinical Clerkships.

Certification By ECFMG And Demonstrate In A Personal Interview The Ability To Read, Write And Speak English Fluently And Also Demonstrate Adequate Training And Ability Sufficient To Permit The Practice Of Medicine In Accordance With Accepted Medical Practice In The State Of Arkansas.

Completion Of At Least Three (3) Years Internship Or Residency In An ACGME Approved Program In The United States.

Present Indisputable Identification.

All Verifications Must Be Received Directly From The Originating Source.

Completed Application, Fee And Documentation Should Be Sent To:

Arkansas State Medical Board
2100 Riverfront Drive
Little Rock, AR 72202

http://www.armedicalboard.org/support/FAQ/sub-req-PH.asp

[canada30s]

can a student do all his/her core rotations in NY and have them all be ACGME approved? i read the recent replies with the list of states/hospitals/core rotations avaible and NY didnt have all the core rotations listed. i am interested in practicing in NJ and according to another reply, one must do all core rotations at ACGME hospitals. i would like to do all my cores in NY. is it possible? thanx


IM...Cabrini, Wyckoff
Surg... Cabrini, Wyckoff
Peds... Barnabus, Wyckoff
OB... Lincoln
FP... Wyckoff
Psych... St.JE, Cabrini


Is this right Juni711 (or anyone else)?
All these are green and good to go?
If so,
What are the chances that a student would be able to get these all in a row?
Realistically speaking?

[Junito]

IM...Cabrini, Wyckoff
Surg... Cabrini, Wyckoff
Peds... Barnabus, Wyckoff
OB... Lincoln
FP... Wyckoff
Psych... St.JE, Cabrini


Is this right Juni711 (or anyone else)?
All these are green and good to go?
If so,
What are the chances that a student would be able to get these all in a row?
Realistically speaking?

I suggest you search SMU's website that lists clinical rotations. Yes one can do all ACGME approved rotations in NYC. How many spots are there, I have never got an answer to this one. How long one will have to wait to do all greens...Will let you know once I find out credible evidence.

[canada30s]

I suggest you search SMU's website that lists clinical rotations. Yes one can do all ACGME approved rotations in NYC. How many spots are there, I have never got an answer to this one. How long one will have to wait to do all greens...Will let you know once I find out credible evidence.

I got an e-mail from Clinical director (after asking whether the NY pattern stated above would be feasible):
"I simply have no way of knowing this far in advance. Also, please keep in
mind that we may not be able to assign you to all core rotations in New York
- although, as I said, we certainly do our best. Electives (4th year)
should not be an issue as the students set up their own electives. This
would allow you to focus on the New York area for that year anyway."

Yeah, I guess it would be on a case by case basis, year by year...
in other mails, the director sounded real positive and willing to help in any way possible.

how do SMU students go about setting up their own electives?
what is involved?

[Junito]

how do SMU students go about setting up their own electives?
what is involved?

Check the following links:

http://www.schi.org/med_program/index.html

http://www.orhs.org/for_physicians/clerkships/faqs.cfm#apply

These are two hospitals where one can apply for electives which outline the process for students.

[aaron1483]

im sorry if this is a dumb question, but what exactly does "green state" or "green rotation" mean....again, i apologize if this is a silly question, but any responses would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Aaron

[skidoc42]

im sorry if this is a dumb question, but what exactly does "green state" or "green rotation" mean....again, i apologize if this is a silly question, but any responses would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Aaron

Hey Aaron,

A green rotation means that the rotation you're doing is ACGME approved (not sure if I got those initials right). But the bottom line is this. If the place you're doing, for instance OB clinicals in, has a residency program in OB as well...it's then a green rotation for your OB requirement. Follow that? Hope that helps. Take care!!

skidoc42 ;)

[MD999]

im sorry if this is a dumb question, but what exactly does "green state" or "green rotation" mean....again, i apologize if this is a silly question, but any responses would be appreciated.

Thanks,
Aaron

No, its not a dumb question. :D
Many of us werent told what the heck were Green and Blue states were until 5th semester.
Now it's a pretty much open subject for all semesters.

ACGME approved rotations (green) are the preferred ones by most states. Stick to the green ones so you dont run into liscensing problems later.

[khamilton]

Hey Aaron,

A green rotation means that the rotation you're doing is ACGME approved (not sure if I got those initials right). But the bottom line is this. If the place you're doing, for instance OB clinicals in, has a residency program in OB as well...it's then a green rotation for your OB requirement. Follow that? Hope that helps. Take care!!

skidoc42 ;)
This is not actually true. There are rotations, specifically in MI and Chigago that even though there are residents at the site it is not counted as a "Green" site for FMG even though it is for those from US schools. It is best just to go by the list that the school gives out and not attempt to speculate as it could cause you trouble down the road.

Attached is the most current list that I have (Sptember 28, 2005)

[drmikey]

This is not actually true. There are rotations, specifically in MI and Chigago that even though there are residents at the site it is not counted as a "Green" site for FMG even though it is for those from US schools. It is best just to go by the list that the school gives out and not attempt to speculate as it could cause you trouble down the road.

Attached is the most current list that I have (Sptember 28, 2005)

Maybe I'm not completely understanding your comment, but ACGME is for u.s. med students as well as foreign med students. Actually, I think it has nothing to do with which school you're from.

[khamilton]

The ACGME accreditation is for US as well as FMG. However, there are some locations where US students and FMGs attend the same rotations, taught by the same people, but while it is considered "green" for the US students it is not for the FMGs.

[onesolo]

This is not actually true. There are rotations, specifically in MI and Chigago that even though there are residents at the site it is not counted as a "Green" site for FMG even though it is for those from US schools. It is best just to go by the list that the school gives out and not attempt to speculate as it could cause you trouble down the road.

Attached is the most current list that I have (Sptember 28, 2005)

Hmmm, can you elaborate on this? I'm in disagreement with your post however, maybe you know something that I don't know.

[Junito]

The ACGME accreditation is for US as well as FMG. However, there are some locations where US students and FMGs attend the same rotations, taught by the same people, but while it is considered "green" for the US students it is not for the FMGs.

This is correct, one of the non-acgme approved rotations (either Psych or Peds) at Synergy (saginaw) for SMU turns out to be green (acgme approved) for Michigan State University.

[mjbfsu]

is there a way to find out how many green rotations each state requires? i am personally interested in IL, so staying in chicago for all rotations would be awsome.

[Junito]

I don't think IL is a "Green State" (which is a state that requires all cores to be ACGME certified). So if you are interested in IL, then you can do all your clerkships there.

[mjbfsu]

sorry, this may be a dumb ?...but are clerkships the same as core rotations?

[Junito]

sorry, this may be a dumb ?...but are clerkships the same as core rotations?

Clerkships are your clinical rotations done in your 3rd and 4th year. Cores are your required 3rd year clerkships (Internal medicine, Surgery, Family practice, pediatrics, ob/gyn, and psychiatry. Check the beginning of this thread for more information, or the SMU website.

[Lila1284]

Clinical rotations: what is the difference between a LCME approved and a ACGME accredited rotation?

as far as i've known, please correct me if i'm wrong:
ACGME accredited rotation: one that is done at a hospital where there is an existing ACGME accredited residency program.

LCME: committe for approving medical schools (in US, CANADA)
I didn't know that LCME also approves rotations?

[kanoej]

i apologize in advance, but for the most part i understand what it means by " green book ", but someone mentioned " blue book". what is "blue" referring to? Also, if you did a core at " green book " hospital but it is a core that is not approved for " green book " or no resident or intern for that particular core -- will that core be considered " green "?? if i confused anyone...suppose hospital x is " green book " for family and internal, but not for any other core. And i do my surgery core at hospital x, will surgery count as " green " rotation? Lastly, regarding electives, do they need 2 be " green " or that depends on each state or they are not required 2 be " green ", only cores? Much appreciated -- didnt realize clinicals can be so complex.
happy new years everyone!

[neeL24]

On the SMU website where it shows the 3rd year clinical rotation sites, it shows some that are SMU approved and some that are ACGME approved. Are the ones that are SMU approved ACGME approved as well or are some not?

[AUCMD2006]

it is confusing heres an overview;

a green rotation has 2 definitions that are used by different states:

1)a rotation is considered "green" if there is a residency in that specialty at that hospital OR if there is a FP residency at that hospital. this is known as the "FP umbrella".

example-a hospital has a FP residency but i do a rads rotation that does not have a dedicated rads residency. states that use the "umbrella" model will consider the rads rotation green bc the program has a FP residency

2) a rotation is only considered "green" if there is a dedicated residency in that specialty


you also have to watch for degree reqs, keep proof of your time on campus, some states measure your rotation hours differently so you may end up short b/c they round down...etc

as you can see, it is a pain in the **** b/c you are dealing with 50 rules. this is why all these people that guarantee you 40+ states of licensure without a fully licensed grad in those 40+ states are gonna end up with hemmorhoids due to so much pressure from talking out the wrong end. the only way to know if the curriculum is ok in a state is to have someone licensed there, until then they can interpret their rules any way they wish.

[Junito]

The ACGME approved sites listed on the SMU site are sites that either have a ACGME approved residency in that site, or are a participating institution for another institution that has one.

For example, Wyckoff Hospital is an ACGME approved sites in IM & Peds for SMU, but if you were to look up Wyckoff it only has an ACGME approved residency in FP. Yet it is a participating institution for Methodist (which has an ACGME approved residency in IM), forgot which was the peds one.

None of the ACGME approved sites listed on the SMU website is considered green due to the FP umbrella. If you look under the Jackson Park rotation only the FP is listed as ACGME approved.

FYI, I did check out all the NYC clinical sites to see which were considered ACGME approved, and which were not, looking for any discrepancies (sp?). None were found. But don't take my word for it...Look it up yourself too!

http://www.acgme.org/adspublic/

[Junito]

SMU approved is not ACGME approved.

On the SMU website where it shows the 3rd year clinical rotation sites, it shows some that are SMU approved and some that are ACGME approved. Are the ones that are SMU approved ACGME approved as well or are some not?

[singer]

The ACGME approved sites listed on the SMU site are sites that either have a ACGME approved residency in that site, or are a participating institution for another institution that has one.

For example, Wyckoff Hospital is an ACGME approved sites in IM & Peds for SMU, but if you were to look up Wyckoff it only has an ACGME approved residency in FP. Yet it is a participating institution for Methodist (which has an ACGME approved residency in IM), forgot which was the peds one.

None of the ACGME approved sites listed on the SMU website is considered green due to the FP umbrella. If you look under the Jackson Park rotation only the FP is listed as ACGME approved.

FYI, I did check out all the NYC clinical sites to see which were considered ACGME approved, and which were not, looking for any discrepancies (sp?). None were found. But don't take my word for it...Look it up yourself too!

http://www.acgme.org/adspublic/

Juni711:

Actually if you go on the ACGME website under Bronx Lebanon Hospital you will see that Wyckoff is a participating hospital and that should make the rotation ACGME. Greenbook. Aren't SMU students allowed to do Surgery cores at Wyckoff. I know ROSS students are there .

[Junito]

Juni711:

Actually if you go on the ACGME website under Bronx Lebanon Hospital you will see that Wyckoff is a participating hospital and that should make the rotation ACGME. Greenbook. Aren't SMU students allowed to do Surgery cores at Wyckoff. I know ROSS students are there .

Yes, you're right, I just overlooked that one. I was just listing what I knew off the top of my head. Thanks for bringing that up.

[ahsirt80]

Does anyone know what the blue rotations are and who can do these? Also, the hospitals list core clinical rotations that are neither green nor blue, so what are these for? Does it depend on the state you wish to practice in if you can do these or not? THanks!

[Junito]

just read the beginning of this thread.

[ahsirt80]

ok, i read the beginning of the thread, but i dont see anything about "blue" rotations or what they are. Also, the GMC Group in ATL, is this a hospital? I am confused as to why they list all six core rotations, however, SMU only has two of them listed as greenbook. I am sorry if these are dumb questions...its my husband who's the med student. i am just trying to help him out as he is very busy in midterms right now. Thanks...

[kanoej]

I never realized how complicated the clinical process can be. i know you can look up what rotations are greenbook at what hospitals via acgme website, but unfortunately the website does not list hosptials affiliated with greenbook hospital. I am having some difficulty finding out whether or not a hospital is affiliated w/ greenbook hospital to see if affiliated can be considered greenbook. Is there an easier way to find this out other than searching on the net and reading thru various webpages? is there something like an acgme website that lets you know what hospitals are affiliated?

[Junito]

If you go to the ACGME website, it lists Residencies and hospitals from which residents rotate in. I will consider posting where the affiliations can be found for SMU sites (Wyckoff, GMC, etc) that I found during my research.

[Junito]

I edited each hospital entry so that each site that is ACGME approved via an affiliation has the sponsoring institution listed. Most you can find just by looking up the ACGME website, the others (i.e. GMC) I had to do some extra detective work to find the affiliation. Those sites where I did not list anything on the green font simply means that you can find them easily on the ACGME site: Wyckoff FP is easily found under NY and FP accredited residency search.

[kanoej]

damn, fast reply juni. i definitely appreciate it. u mentioned u edited the list for acgme approved hospitals to include affiliated hospitals also. which or where is this list u are referring to? thanks...

[Junito]

Look at the following hospital threads on this subforum: Wyckoff, Michael Reese, and a few others. I list where you can locate the affiliation for each rotation on the ACGME website. If I did not list anything, it simply means that the site has its own ACGME approved residency, and therefore you can locate it easily on the ACGME website.

[kanoej]

thank u very much....huge help!

[drak]

Guys, is it possible to do the core rotation in UK and still obtain license to practice in FL?
I understand that in order to practice in FL I need to do core rotation at ACGME approved sites. How about elective rotations, do they have to also be ACGME approved? Also, can the residency be done in FL?

Thanks

[Junito]

Guys, is it possible to do the core rotation in UK and still obtain license to practice in FL? Yes.

I understand that in order to practice in FL I need to do core rotation at ACGME approved sites. How about elective rotations, do they have to also be ACGME approved? Not sure.

Also, can the residency be done in FL? Yes

Thanks

Check above for your responses.

[drak]

Thanks Juni. I learned a lot from your postings.


Check above for your responses.

[JMT]

I was reading the requirements for several states that was listed in this forum that needed all core rotations to be green book. I can't find in the requirements where it says that, however they did say that your post graduate (residency) has to be accredited (ACGME) and you need at least 2-3 years depending on the state you look up. So does that mean you don't need green book rotations but as long as you satisfy the amount of time in an accrdited program in your residency then you can get licensed?

[Junito]

I was reading the requirements for several states that was listed in this forum that needed all core rotations to be green book. I can't find in the requirements where it says that, however they did say that your post graduate (residency) has to be accredited (ACGME) and you need at least 2-3 years depending on the state you look up. So does that mean you don't need green book rotations but as long as you satisfy the amount of time in an accrdited program in your residency then you can get licensed?

To answer your question...No. The states listed in the beginning of this thread require your 3rd year rotations to be done at sites that have an ACGME approved residency or are a participating institution for a hospital that has one. For residency you have to do it at an ACGME approved site for that residency.

[solideliquid]

I was curious about the Washington State/licensure issue, so here's the info I found from the Medical Board if anyone is interested.

Eligibility Requirements for Foreign Medical Graduates


·MD Degree or equivalent (MBBS, etc);
·2 years of post graduate medical training accredited by the United States Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education (ACGME), the Royal College of Physicians and Surgeons of Canada (RCPSC), or the College of Family Physicians of Canada (CFPC) – unless you graduated from medical school prior to July 28, 1985 then only one year is required;
·successful completion of a national licensure examination: National Board of Medical Examiners (NBME), Federation of State Medical Boards Examination (FLEX), United States Medical Licensing Examination (USMLE), or the Licentiate of the Medical Council of Canada (LMCC); and
· a standard certificate designated “valid indefinitely” from the Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates (ECFMG) – in place of the ECFMG certification, successful completion of a Fifth Pathway Program or licensure prior to 1958 in the United States.

https://fortress.wa.gov/doh/hpqa1/hps5/Medical/physician_eli.htm

[###]

.............

[Junito]

Thanks for the heads up. Will look into getting the book.

[HeyMcfly]

Here is a list from the PPt lecture given by Dr. G as to which states require all ACGME ("Green") core rotations:

Alabama

Arkansas

California

Conneticut

DC

Delaware

Florida

Georgia

Kentucky

Maine

Massachusetts

New Jersey

New York*

Oklahoma

Oregon

Pennsylvania

Texas

Virginia

* Only rotations done in the state of New York must be completed in ACGME or AOA approved programs.

Hope this helps.



Juni

So just to clarify...if I did all my core rotations at Jackson Park in Chicago (FP green only), I would be eligable for license in NY?

[Junito]

So just to clarify...if I did all my core rotations at Jackson Park in Chicago (FP green only), I would be eligable for license in NY?

From what I understood is that NY requires all rotations to be green (well atleast the rotations completed in NY). From what I gathered from the clinical seminar, it was said that NY accepts "blue" rotations done elsewhere (i.e. in another state such as Florida), but will not take "blue" rotations done in NY. I'm not sure on this. Better to contact the NYSMB. Good luck on getting the info, and if you find out please post it here.

[C-LAB]

Ok, I wasn't clear on this. On the SMU clincal list for UK, it says that 3 hospitals in the UK "meet ACGME" requirements. Does this mean if I completed all of my clinicals at one of the UK hospitals, I could practice in a “green” state?

[sinchu77]

Yes, Doing the Clinical Rotations in England would qualify the same as if you did them at "green" sites in the US.

[XLNC]

In fact I knew some one who did UK clinicals, and once returning to the U.S received ER residency interviews. Not sure about the outcome.

[kapkaniMD]

Quick question, I believe one of the school admin people told me that Florida no longer requires all ACGME rotations, being that FL is where I am planning on practicing can some one please let me know if they have heard of such thing and if not, who I can contact to find out for sure

[Junito]

Contact the florida medical board:

Florida Department of Health Home Page (http://www.doh.state.fl.us/)

Please post your findings.

[mdMDmd]

From what I understood is that NY requires all rotations to be green (well atleast the rotations completed in NY). From what I gathered from the clinical seminar, it was said that NY accepts "blue" rotations done elsewhere (i.e. in another state such as Florida), but will not take "blue" rotations done in NY. I'm not sure on this. Better to contact the NYSMB. Good luck on getting the info, and if you find out please post it here.


do electives have to be green too for ny? and does the same situtaion apply for being a green core as it does for a green elective? (as in does there have to be a residency program in the elective)

thanks?

i'm confused....lol

[wcb22]

Someone posted earlier in this forum about Indian Hospital rotations. If US students rotate through them, and residents do as well, and US students get full credit for the rotation, shouldn't IMGs get credit for this "green book" rotation.

The Indian Hospital site is affilated with the medical school university program, but when I go to the ACGME site, I only find the university program, not the actual indian hospital listed. Does this mean it's not "green book"?

[kapkaniMD]

Contact the florida medical board:

Florida Department of Health Home Page (http://www.doh.state.fl.us/)

Please post your findings.

OK HERE IS THE EMAIL I GOT BACK FROM THEM:

The process should not be that hard for you.
If you do your core clerkships in the US you need to make sure they are at ACGME approved training programs.
You will need a valid ECFMG certificate www.ecfmg.org (http://www.ecfmg.org)
All three steps of the USMLE www.usmle.org (http://www.usmle.org)
At least 2 years ACGME approved training in one specialty area.
www.acgme.org (http://www.acgme.org)

[Petergoes]

OK HERE IS THE EMAIL I GOT BACK FROM THEM:

The process should not be that hard for you.
If you do your core clerkships in the US you need to make sure they are at ACGME approved training programs.
You will need a valid ECFMG certificate www.ecfmg.org (http://www.ecfmg.org)
All three steps of the USMLE www.usmle.org (http://www.usmle.org)
At least 2 years ACGME approved training in one specialty area.
www.acgme.org (http://www.acgme.org)

Does this include the "ACGME" family parctice umbrella idea or do you have to do rotations in all core hospitals with residencies in them

[kapkaniMD]

Does this include the "ACGME" family parctice umbrella idea or do you have to do rotations in all core hospitals with residencies in them

ive never heard of the umbrella idea, but that doesnt sound like it is something that would work, I definitely would not base my career on it, but please feel free to ask them and let us know

[wcb22]

i'm linking this post to a post on Pennsylvannia (http://www.valuemd.com/clinical-rotations-forum/122513-pennsylvania-medical-board-ban.html), as it has everything to do with Junito's first posting on this thread.

Junito, I just copied your list of these states (from a st. matts post), and i started calling. some states still haven't gotten back to me, but this is what i have so far.

ACGME green book coresAlabamaArkansasCaliforniaConneticutDCDelaware all must be green, even electivesFlorida64b8-4.018. Go to 3d. 3 years in ONE ACGME specialty, then it's ok. this is the actual law #, she said if they give you problems, tell them to look up this law #, and it fully states that you don't need green book if you complete your 3 yr residency.Georgiajust said 3 years of residency in ACGME specialty Kentuckycomplete a 3 year residency in ACGME program, or 75% green bookMainejust complete 3 year ACGME residencyMassachusettsNew JerseyNew York*NY rotations need to be green, but elsewhere it's okOklahomahospital must complete a form stating it's ACGME affiliationOregonhttp://egov.oregon.gov/BME/MD-DO_Application/Ver_Clinical_Clerkships.pdf - all must be green book -- roxanna hobbs, 503-673-2700 <Roxana.Hobbs@state.or.us>Pennsylvania3 years of ACGME approved residency, that's it, don't care about cores or greens, law just changedTexasall green book?Virginiadoes not count family medicine as a coreIllinoisACGME for cores ONLY, not electives


hmm, that didn't copy like i thought it would. but you can follow each state, and see what it says. the ones that say nothing after them are the ones that i'm still trying to get info on.

[Junito]

Thanks for the update. Will look into it...;)

[HeyMcfly]

IS there a listing of which states DO fall under the FP umbrella?

[mdhope]

Just to clarify, the states on this list require a med student to have completed all of their core rotations at ACGME sites? Is this to gain liscensure in the state, to complete a residency program in the state or both? Do some or all of these states overlook the green rotations if a physician is already licensed and has a history of practice in another state? Thanks.

[Junito]

Just to clarify, the states on this list require a med student to have completed all of their core rotations at ACGME sites? Is this to gain liscensure in the state, to complete a residency program in the state or both? Do some or all of these states overlook the green rotations if a physician is already licensed and has a history of practice in another state? Thanks.

That depends...I heard that Ga requires ACGME rotations in order for residents to be able to moonlight. Yet states like FL were lax in enforcing the requirement for all Cores to be ACGME in the past but are now becoming more strict on the requirement (this is what I heard about FL but I haven't confirmed it yet). Most states will reciprocate a state medical license from another state (with CA, HI, and a few other exceptions).

[ahsirt80]

I spoke with a person on the phone with the Florida Board of Medicine this morning regarding licensure for the state of Florida. She told me that the rotations that must be green book or ACGME are Internal Medicine, Surgery, OB/GYN, and Pediatrics. She specifically told me that FP and Psych. do not need to be ACGME. Here is the statute and the link so you all can check it out:
https://www.flrules.org/Gateway/view_notice.asp?id=2409109

64B8-4.018 International Medical Graduates; Qualification Requirements.
(1) Before any graduate of a medical school not accredited by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education, except a graduate of an accredited school in Canada, is admitted to take the written licensure examination or be licensed by endorsement, he or she must demonstrate that the core clerkships received in the United States as a part of the curriculum of the medical school was obtained either in a hospital affiliated with a medical school accredited by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education and the affiliation includes the provision of core clerkship training for that medical school in the relevant subject area or in a hospital which had, at the time the clerkship training was obtained, a residency program accredited by the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education in the specialty area in which the clinical training was being obtained.
(2) For purposes of this rule, the term “core clerkships” means core rotations in medicine, surgery, obstetrics-gynecology, and pediatrics. Each clerkship must be equivalent in duration and substance to the core clerkships offered by the medical school to its regular students.
(3) An applicant to whom the provisions of subsection (1) would otherwise be applicable may be admitted to take the written licensure examination or be licensed by endorsement if he or she demonstrates one of the following:
(a) That, after receipt of the medical degree, he or she obtained core clerkship training in the United States in the specific areas of core rotations which had not met the requirements of subsection (1), which training was obtained either in a hospital affiliated with a medical school accredited by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education and the affiliation included the provision of core clerkship training for that medical school in the relevant subject specialty area or in a hospital which had, at the time the clerkship training was obtained, a residency program accredited by the Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education in the specialty area in which the clinical training was being obtained.
(b) That, after receipt of the medical degree, he or she returned to the school which granted the medical degree and obtained core clerkship training in the country in which the school is physically located and in the specific subject area or areas of core rotation or rotations which had not met the requirements of subsection (1), which training would have been acceptable to the Board if it had been included as a integral part of the undergraduate medical education.
(c) That the applicant has successfully completed one year of approved residency training in the exact subject area or areas for which the core clerkship or clerkships had not met the requirements of subsection (1). For purposes of this provision, the one year of residency training relied upon for eligibility herein shall be completed in addition to the internship required by Section 458.311(1)(f)3.c., F.S.
(d) That the applicant has successfully completed three progressive years of approved residency training, (PGY I, II, and III) in one specialty area.
Specific Authority 458.309, 458.311, 458.313(4) FS. Law Implemented 458.311, 458.313(4) FS. History–New 11-28-84, Amended 3-13-85, Formerly 21M-22.18, Amended 5-18-86, Formerly 21M-22.018, 61F6-22.018, 59R-4.018.
Hope this helps!!

[Junito]

Awesome! Thanks for the update.

[wcb22]

yet, however, i was told this (from the Florida Medical Board)...

refer to licensing law 64b8-4.018. Go to 3d. 3 years of residency in ONE ACGME specialty, then it's ok. this is the actual law #, she said if they give you problems, tell them to look up this law #, and it fully states that you don't need green book if you complete your 3 yr residency. this is for permanent licensure. forget about green book rotations, core or not core, if you do your 3 years of residency training.

now perhaps you'll have moonlighting problems during residency if you don't complete do all core greenbook. but after residency, i don't think you should have a problem either way.

[Junito]

Could this be an issue come residency? Aren't you supposed to be eligible for Florida licensure in order to apply for residency? Not sure about this since I haven't looked it up recently.

[MedChe]

iam confused as well:roll:

[AmericanIMG]

FL has meetings every 60 days or so, it could change several times before we apply for licensure :(

[tampanian]

iam confused as well:roll:

If an IMG does all of their required cores (medicine, surgery, obstetrics-gynecology, and pediatrics) at ACGME approved training programs and has completed at least 2 years of an approved residency program in one specialty area, they are eligible for licensure. If, however, any or all of the cores were done outside of an ACGME approved setting, the IMG is now eligible for licensure after 3 years of residency.
https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?ID=64B8-4.018 (https://www.flrules.org/gateway/RuleNo.asp?ID=64B8-4.018)

it could change several times before we apply for licensure :(

This goes for any state. One thing worth mentioning is that Florida has traditionally been very fair with IMG’s. I believe some 35-40% of the docs there are foreign trained.

[jhoff6017]

I just got off the phone with the PA Med Board and asked them about requirements for foreign medical students. The woman I spoke with said that they no longer "count" medical school clinical rotations as criteria for a license. Their only requirements for medical school rotations are those set by the medical school issuing the Medical degree. So if your school is ECFMG approved and they will issue you a MD, then the state of PA has nothing to say about it. They do however look closely at the rotations you do as a resident. As long as your residency is part of a certified residency program you are ok. She then transferred me to a foreign graduate evaluator and she reported the same information.
I clarified and asked again if my medical school rotations should be at a ACGME approved site, and she again said no. She said that they used to have the rule about ACGME rotations, but simplified the process and just left it up to the school issuing the degree. I also read through the application for licensing and nothing is mentioned other than a degree, board scores, transcripts to prove that you have earned the degree, and residency info. Look for yourself or give them a call.

[gschneid]

Thanks for posting. I am interested in practicing in PA so that is helpful.

[azulpanther]

thats really awesome, knock one state off the green only list.

[got milk?]

thats really awesome, knock one state off the green only list.

.... and 40 more to go.

[azulpanther]

.... and 40 more to go.



Really ??? I was under the impression that the majority of states required blue rotations and not green.