a piece of advice

[drnick07]

I was writing an email to a friend of mine and figured some of it might be useful for other students to hear. It is easy to get wrapped up in things you don't need to be.

Grenada is in a reality all its own. People act in a way down there that they normally wouldn't at home. And there's this sense of freedom that you can do stuff and get away with it. I mean, what's the chances that you'll actually see these people again? The truth is, people know people who know people and your entire professional reputation can be ruined by something you did in med school.

There are reputations of my classmates that i will never forget. I don't care how smart they are, or if they become the best in their field, i will never refer a patient to them or support them. And then what happens if they call me up needing help on a case or a favor? They'll get zip. And it's hard to go far in medicine without friends. Just try getting a journal article published when one of your classmates sits on the editorial board and remembers your drunken debauchery after Surge.

That is not to say that people do not meet down there and later get married. (There is a couple from my class who did just that.) But if that is the case with someone, you'll know it. Typically those stories don't begin with "I was so drunk the night of the AMSA party..." or "I was so sore that next day after the party at the aquarium...." or "I could barely walk home after sandblast..."

I already know of one person who got an abortion down there. And I'd like to see the stats on how many positive pregnancy tests the clinic does each year. I'm sure we'd all be surprised. As much as i saw while i was down there, i'm now realizing there was a lot more i didn't see.

And if you think having a bad reputation with your colleagues is bad, try it when a patient finds out about your med school past. "My brother's sister's cousin's ex-wife's aunt says you were quite the partyer in med school and were too drunk to ever make it to class. Can you refer me to someone else - someone who actually went to class to become a doctor? Oh, and what school did you go to?" (don't worry. this is not from personal experience.)

I'm not saying don't have a good time. By all means meet people and enjoy life down there. But don't be stupid. And if you're not sure, just imagine yourself in a white coat doing same thing and see if you're comfortable with it then. OK, i'll get down off my soapbox now. Thanks for reading.

[orthonut]

I was writing an email to a friend of mine and figured some of it might be useful for other students to hear. It is easy to get wrapped up in things you don't need to be.

Grenada is in a reality all its own. People act in a way down there that they normally wouldn't at home. And there's this sense of freedom that you can do stuff and get away with it. I mean, what's the chances that you'll actually see these people again? The truth is, people know people who know people and your entire professional reputation can be ruined by something you did in med school.

There are reputations of my classmates that i will never forget. I don't care how smart they are, or if they become the best in their field, i will never refer a patient to them or support them. And then what happens if they call me up needing help on a case or a favor? They'll get zip. And it's hard to go far in medicine without friends. Just try getting a journal article published when one of your classmates sits on the editorial board and remembers your drunken debauchery after Surge.

That is not to say that people do not meet down there and later get married. (There is a couple from my class who did just that.) But if that is the case with someone, you'll know it. Typically those stories don't begin with "I was so drunk the night of the AMSA party..." or "I was so sore that next day after the party at the aquarium...." or "I could barely walk home after sandblast..."

I already know of one person who got an abortion down there. And I'd like to see the stats on how many positive pregnancy tests the clinic does each year. I'm sure we'd all be surprised. As much as i saw while i was down there, i'm now realizing there was a lot more i didn't see.

And if you think having a bad reputation with your colleagues is bad, try it when a patient finds out about your med school past. "My brother's sister's cousin's ex-wife's aunt says you were quite the partyer in med school and were too drunk to ever make it to class. Can you refer me to someone else - someone who actually went to class to become a doctor? Oh, and what school did you go to?" (don't worry. this is not from personal experience.)

I'm not saying don't have a good time. By all means meet people and enjoy life down there. But don't be stupid. And if you're not sure, just imagine yourself in a white coat doing same thing and see if you're comfortable with it then. OK, i'll get down off my soapbox now. Thanks for reading.

AMEN!

Vet med is the exact same way. Except our world is a whole heck of a lot smaller.

There are practices that people I went to tech school with work at and although I know they are top notch, I will NEVER EVER send one of my patients there, unless that is the only practice left after the nuclear bomb goes off and it's only 2 seconds from my office.

Then there are people I've seen here already that I'm not sure I would refer a patient to.

Have fun and party, but there is no need for the type of behaviors that I have seen and heard about happening.

[jaywalk81]

agreed. there are definitely some ppl that i would never refer any of my patients to.

[Locutusofborg]

Im not in medical school YET.... but although the message is a positive one (do your dung, dont screw around, your future patients' lives are at stake!), I think the threat of someone "knowing" is overblown. Most patients do not scrutinize their physician's past. He is my doctor, his advice seems reasonable -- thats all a patient cares about. As far as your peers are concerned, there are 20000 or so new practicing physicians each year...

The motivation to act mature should be self-explanatory. But I seriously doubt the threat of "someone knowing" is a serious one.

[envivany1]

It is really not good to pass judgments, there are ppl who engage in very irresponsible behaviour in my opinion; but the point is that that is my opinion. Some ppl hear are really young and this is their first time partying like this. But still who cares, you live up to your standards, and allow others to live they way they want. why should we pass judgements on them?

[canman]

some people can party and still do well in medical school. i said this numerous times on this forum: you don't need to know all that detail prof. give in their handouts. all you need is the Big pic. some people can party and pass the exam, other need to stay up all night studying. i am one of those who needs to study a lot but i don't stay up until AM, usually until PM. Everybody gets Drunk once in a while and as far as i know a lot of people get pregnant and have abortions, but that doesn't mean they would not be good physicians. Even US Docs get drunk and party. does this mean they are not good Docs.


Canman

[onlyinthemorning]

So there are physicians who are alcoholics, philanderers, and of questionable moral standing?

http://images.art.com/images/-/London-Herald/Titanic-Sinks--C10097447.jpeg

[rokshana]

I think what Dr. Nick is trying to say is that SGU is like a small town- everyone knows you and your business... there is nothing faster than the SGU rumormill and many people think, wellllll, there are so many people here and no one gonna know (or care) and that isn't really true- maybe if you were in the states, probably, but here, well... reputations get made for good or bad and they stick.
Yes, umpteen thousand students graduate from med school- but trust me its still a small group and people know people...especially if you specialize- if they don't know you they know someone who knows you(it kinda like the six degrees of separation thing) and for right or wrong, good or bad, people form opinions and make assumptions based on the info people get and the rep you make in med school can (not necessarily will, but can) follow you for the rest of your life- maybe not patients but other docs who refer to you may make a decesion based on info on you (there is huge politics when it comes to that- docs don't always refer to other docs based on how smart they are or if they are good docs and patients tend to sue docs that they don't like regardless of how good the doc is and less likely to sue those that they do like, even if the screw up is big! - AMA study to prove it too!).
So, if you sleep around, drink too much, smoke pot like a fiend, lie, steal, or cheat- people will know about it.

[payal83]

I agree, besides wasn't college the time to get all of that out of your system? People can still drink and party but more people are going to notice. It takes a lot of time to fix a bad reputation (not speaking from experience) :)
BTW did you hear about the doctor in CA that told a woman he could fix her backpain if she had sex with him? Then he charged her $2000 for the "office visits" and now she's suing him! At least I haven't heard of SGU grads doing something like that.

[jaywalk81]

I agree, besides wasn't college the time to get all of that out of your system? People can still drink and party but more people are going to notice. It takes a lot of time to fix a bad reputation (not speaking from experience) :)
BTW did you hear about the doctor in CA that told a woman he could fix her backpain if she had sex with him? Then he charged her $2000 for the "office visits" and now she's suing him! At least I haven't heard of SGU grads doing something like that.
something similar happened last night on grey's anatomy.
porn can stimulate endorphine level, thus alleviating pain

[RussianJoo]

OK you guys are right but what about profs, who get wasted at events like sandblast to the point where they trip over and fall cause they are so drunk, in front of their class not to mention other profs and other students?? WELL, that’s what happened this past sandblast to a certain British Biochem Prof who loves his Carib!

How one acts during their private personal time and how they act in a professional setting are two totally different things.... Med School, undergrad is different because those are the only times when your professional and personal lives mix. That’s why I feel that as long as a person isn't failing out of school but acts in an unprofessional manor during their free private time. WHO CARES!?! You guys are saying just because some one gets drunk at parties and has a good time you won't recommend that person to your patients? what about the people who don't party but study all the time and do just as poorly in medical school or even worse then the person how parties.. Don't be jealous that that person can balance having a great time and doing his/her school work...
What one does during their own free time and how they act during their professional time are two different things, just because you happen to see them act that way doesn't mean they are going to be bad doctor. I am sure that 95% or more of Doctors who are practicing medicine in the states are doing or have done something immoral or even illegal. If you were to eliminate all those people you wouldn't have enough doctors to run a single hospital...

I say Do whatever you want( as long as its legal or as long as you don't get caught) but just make sure your school work gets done first. We are here to study first and party later... Also lets face it most of the people are in SGU because they partied too much in College, so this is what people are used to and this is what they will continue doing... I say work hard and play even harder!!!

And on that note besides Bananas who else is having a Halloween party!?

[stephew]

like it or not folks, the reality is that if you think youre about to live life under the lens in med school, wait until youre a doctor. fool yourself all you want but it does matter. I know most of you can't comprehend this reality now, but its true and remember: youre not doing any one a favor by being a doc; its not your right. if you dont like the change in your life that may have to accompany it, just don't do it.

[jaywalk81]

the boss has spoken on the matter. case close.

[daguru]

the boss has spoken on the matter. case close.

Amen.

perhaps this is a bit of a tangent, but it seems the times where doctors in america are error-proof are over. There are many places in the world where a doctor can do no wrong, even having sex with a female patient to alleviate back pain and then charging her for it....specifically, the Prague selective and my time in India has shown me that there are places in the world where doctors are untouchable. However, that's not longer the case in the US.

While is somewhat right in that it's not fair to judge someone by whether or not they partied too hard or whatever, it's just the way it is. Knowingly or maybe subconsciously there are some people who are really smart, but some of the stuff that i have heard about them makes me think twice about ever referring a patient of mine to them. After all, your reputation is based on their actions. So, if i had the choice between two doctors, one who i knew partied some and studied some, or the other who got three girls pregnant and passed the syph around to half the campus, well, even if their GPAs are the same or whatever, i think i'd choose mr. NON-syph. or Ms. Non-syph, whatever.

i think being a doctor for the most part throws you into the spotlight, even if it's just a small circle. And besides, it's just a little helpful note from Dr. Nick, and I for one am glad he posted it. Not that I AM Mr. Syph, but you do tend to forget about the rest of the world when you are down here, and it's good to kinda...snap back to reality...

[jaywalk81]

the business world has a lot more people...and one of my friend knows all the BIG players in wall street...trust me he knows them all and there was one case that an employee of his was really unprofessional while working under him and he told him that he can forget ever about working in the financial sector EVER again because he will make sure noone hires him.....well lets just say that that guy never worked in the financial sector again...now thats power!
actions speak louder than words and sometime it only needs one powerful person to know u to either boost u or pur ur life in hell

[rokshana]

OK you guys are right but what about profs, who get wasted at events like sandblast to the point where they trip over and fall cause they are so drunk, in front of their class not to mention other profs and other students?? WELL, that’s what happened this past sandblast to a certain British Biochem Prof who loves his Carib!

How one acts during their private personal time and how they act in a professional setting are two totally different things.... Med School, undergrad is different because those are the only times when your professional and personal lives mix. That’s why I feel that as long as a person isn't failing out of school but acts in an unprofessional manor during their free private time. WHO CARES!?! You guys are saying just because some one gets drunk at parties and has a good time you won't recommend that person to your patients? what about the people who don't party but study all the time and do just as poorly in medical school or even worse then the person how parties.. Don't be jealous that that person can balance having a great time and doing his/her school work...
What one does during their own free time and how they act during their professional time are two different things, just because you happen to see them act that way doesn't mean they are going to be bad doctor. I am sure that 95% or more of Doctors who are practicing medicine in the states are doing or have done something immoral or even illegal. If you were to eliminate all those people you wouldn't have enough doctors to run a single hospital...

I say Do whatever you want( as long as its legal or as long as you don't get caught) but just make sure your school work gets done first. We are here to study first and party later... Also lets face it most of the people are in SGU because they partied too much in College, so this is what people are used to and this is what they will continue doing... I say work hard and play even harder!!!

And on that note besides Bananas who else is having a Halloween party!?

Like it or not when you are a doctor you ARE going to be held up to a higher moral standard and your private life may creep into the realm of your professional life (some residency contracts even have moral turpitude(don't think I spelled that right, but you know what I mean) clauses where what you do in your off time can impact your job. Is it really that important to "party hard" that you would endanger your crediablity? Plus, yeah, many of us are here because we partied WAY too hard in collage (and THAT is from previous experience!!LOL) and ended up here instead of a US school, so... haven't you learned your lesson? This school is giving you a second chance to excel, to prove in a way to yourself, those around you and even those med schools that rejected you that you can do this and that you will be a good doctor. IS really that important to sleep(would have used a different word, but those censors you know!)with every guy/girl/whatever at sgu, smoke every variety of weed available in Grenada, and drink every known liquor on the island- is that what you came down here for?

As for the profs behaving badly, you're right- it is unprofessional and a bad example, but guess what they're probably here for a reason too!!

[jaywalk81]

i think ppl will be suprise how much power/knowledge/influence some ppl has who are in the position of authority.
i say party and do all those stuff at ur own risk, but if one day it comes back and bite u in the behind, u will have noone to blame but urself and noteven SGU can give u a third chance

[jaywalk81]

as far as the what you do in your free/private time is outside your career/professional life....well try telling that line to politicians and other ppl that have been involved with bad behaviors in their private life present or PAST and how their name will never be viewed the same ever again.

[Locutusofborg]

I strongly disagree that doctors should be held to some kind of personal "moral" standard. Whose morality are we talking about? The job of a doctor is to make sick people well, not to be a spiritual guide or a moral example. Violating the code of ethics on the job (i.e. having sex with patients) is wrong because it is against a specific rule, not because it violates the general sense of puritan morality. And I do not for one minute believe that the dedication to scientific inquiry, learning, caring, observation, and treatment has ANYTHING to do with where and how and with whom and with how many I choose to mate on my time off. Ditto for alcohol.

And a little anecdote... My father was going through his residency (he is an FMG, and we are all immigrants), and they had a christmas party. My mom was worried that they were drinking a lot, so she sent me to take my dad home. When I got to the restaurant, I found some residents lying on the floor. The attending physician was sitting there glass-faced. I asked him his name, just to see how drunk he was -- and he had trouble pronouncing it. Later that evening, one of the physicians from the party chose to drive, and smashed his vihicle into a family's SUV. Amazingly nobody was seriously hurt.

Now here is the kicker. They were ALL at work on time the next day. Even the guy who smashed his car and lost his license. Dedication to be a doctor isn't about what you do at a party, its how much willpower and strength you have the morning after. Just my point of view.

[sarahtarah]

but is it ok for that doctor, no matter how dedicated he is, to come to work hungover? do you really want a doctor treating you whose battling a sevre headache brought on by the 'fun' he had last night?

im all for partying (ok i dont do much of it, but you can), but when tomorrow you have to wake up and perform on the job, can you do it well knowing you got hammered last night? Some people can and some cant. most dont know their limits until its too late.

i'd just rather have my doctor be a dull person.

[emt036]

First of all, welcome back Dr. Nick, nice post.

Second of all, is going to work drunk something we should aspire to? As an EMT, I can't treat a patient in the back of an ambulance if I have had alcohol within 12 hours of the start of my shift. Since my scope of practice is rather limited as an EMT, I would think the regulations for physicians would be more stringent.

And anyways, don't you owe it to your patients not to have impaired judgement when you are making (potentially) life-and-death decisions?

[Locutusofborg]

Everyone gets headaches. Using your logic id rather have a male doctor because males don't PMS. And last thing I need is a bloated surgeon with a headache and a short temper!

Of course thats **. Thats what being a professional means: putting your personal sensations and feelings aside, and focusing on the patient. Being hung over is no different from having a migraine or a disability or a divorce or just a bad day. If you get through med school without the life stuff sweating your goals and learning, treating patients is no different.

[jaywalk81]

being professional also means acting professional

[RussianJoo]

i think i'd choose mr. NON-syph. or Ms. Non-syph, whatever.


shouldn't it be Dr.Non-syph ??? I would never refer a patient to someone who wasn't a Doc. hahaha

[RussianJoo]

I strongly disagree that doctors should be held to some kind of personal "moral" standard. Whose morality are we talking about? The job of a doctor is to make sick people well, not to be a spiritual guide or a moral example. Violating the code of ethics on the job (i.e. having sex with patients) is wrong because it is against a specific rule, not because it violates the general sense of puritan morality. And I do not for one minute believe that the dedication to scientific inquiry, learning, caring, observation, and treatment has ANYTHING to do with where and how and with whom and with how many I choose to mate on my time off. Ditto for alcohol.

And a little anecdote... My father was going through his residency (he is an FMG, and we are all immigrants), and they had a christmas party. My mom was worried that they were drinking a lot, so she sent me to take my dad home. When I got to the restaurant, I found some residents lying on the floor. The attending physician was sitting there glass-faced. I asked him his name, just to see how drunk he was -- and he had trouble pronouncing it. Later that evening, one of the physicians from the party chose to drive, and smashed his vihicle into a family's SUV. Amazingly nobody was seriously hurt.

Now here is the kicker. They were ALL at work on time the next day. Even the guy who smashed his car and lost his license. Dedication to be a doctor isn't about what you do at a party, its how much willpower and strength you have the morning after. Just my point of view.

yes thats exactly what i am talkig about!!! we aren't Gods to be looked up upon and worshiped... we have a job and if u do it well and are always on time and are profesional during ur time in the office or hospital thats all that needs be.. IF for some reason ur personal life starts to effect your professional life then and only then should someone say something or u should be fired or looked badly upon.... If someone has other moral reasons for having to act professional and proper all the time, like little Jimmy wants to be just like you and does everything that you do then fine, but i have no jimmy's in my life and as long as i perform well on exams and while i practice there shouldn't be anyone pointing fingers. Its just like any other job if you act unprofessionally as a cook you will get fired and people won't come and eat your restaurant, but if you are an awsome cook and like to go get drunk at some club and bring women home with you to spend the night who cares? people aren't going to stop coming to your restaurant just because you do that on the weekends when you are off. WE PROVIDE A SERVICE, NOTHING MORE! we are highly skilled cooks or drivers or pilots or anything else.. And those people have your life in their hands as well. its different with politions or lawyers or cops because here you can say that if they are unmoral off duty they might be unmoral during their time working as well. but with something like making someone better its different there are no morals involved a sick person comes to you, you find out whats wrong with them and get them better. simple as that.. you have to do whats best for your patient... if the patient wants something you make it happen and tell them the risks involved or if you feel that u can't cure them you send them to someone else it has nothing to do with what u did friday night when you don't have to be at work till monday or even the next day. as long as you are 100% and ready to do what needs to be done that day.

[RussianJoo]

ok also you guys started talking about coming to work drunk or breaking rules that are set like u can't drink for 12 hours before your shift.. I wasn't talking about that I was talking more about if you have the weekends off and you go party everyweekend... no one in med school parties everyday but i know a lot of people who go out once a week and cut loose. being professional is acting professional during your time on call or at the office or hospital. it doesn't mean you have to always be proper because God is watching!

[RussianJoo]

You People Are Just Nerds!!!

[Manny22]

i kinda agree with RussianJoo... there are times... especailly durring the cheerleading and sex ed lectures in these forums that i don't know what to make of the schools... they seem kind of extreme... extremely nuts... it reminds me of that movie "the gods must be crazy"

....mmhmm...

[sey]

i totally agree with russianjoo.....

i can't comprehend why anyone might think that just because we are going to be doctors (fingers crossed), we have an integral duty to be perfect human beings. the hippocratic oath doesn't mention that we need to limit the amount of fun we have on the weekends!!! Our responsibility is special yes, with our patients and our fellow human being, to promote health, healing, and hapiness. but by no means does that mean that doctors must fit a cookie cutter personality that an average person may just be more comfortable with.

don't u guys think it's way too early to develop a God complex????

[Manny22]

i totally agree with russianjoo.....

i can't comprehend why anyone might think that just because we are going to be doctors (fingers crossed), we have an integral duty to be perfect human beings. the hippocratic oath doesn't mention that we need to limit the amount of fun we have on the weekends!!! Our responsibility is special yes, with our patients and our fellow human being, to promote health, healing, and hapiness. but by no means does that mean that doctors must fit a cookie cutter personality that an average person may just be more comfortable with.

don't u guys think it's way too early to develop a God complex????


ya'll are way too extreme... just need to chill, focus on school... and do well... that's all

[pkimm]

This is college for godsake!! Let people have fun....as long as they do well in class, that is fine by me. People go through cycles...let them enjoy while they are at it! It is not going to last forever....ya heard!

[jaywalk81]

This is college for godsake!! Let people have fun....as long as they do well in class, that is fine by me. People go through cycles...let them enjoy while they are at it! It is not going to last forever....ya heard!
actually medical school but who really cares

[daguru]

i dont anyone is saying dont go partying. hell, if they said that i'd be up in arms. i do loves me beer.i love going out. i like partying. and sometimes, usually after exams, i like getting hammered and maybe dancing with some girls and whatnot.but that's not what people are trying to say here. the point is that yeah, you can do all of these things, you can go and get wasted and come home and sleep on your floor,that's fine. hell, that's just funny.but there have been other events that have happened that cross the line between a wild night out, and a mistake that can stick with you for the rest of your life. People getting drunk and getting into fights, shouting profanities at policemen or racist slurs at local students, all kinda of stuff. the stuff that gets you a case in front of the judicial committee. whatever your ideas on the morals and standards of doctors, we can all agree that there is a line. just be careful you dont make some stupid mistake and cross that line, nad then regret it for the rest of your life. i think that is the idea here..

[jaywalk81]

i dont anyone is saying dont go partying. hell, if they said that i'd be up in arms. i do loves me beer.i love going out. i like partying. and sometimes, usually after exams, i like getting hammered and maybe dancing with some girls and whatnot.but that's not what people are trying to say here. the point is that yeah, you can do all of these things, you can go and get wasted and come home and sleep on your floor,that's fine. hell, that's just funny.but there have been other events that have happened that cross the line between a wild night out, and a mistake that can stick with you for the rest of your life. People getting drunk and getting into fights, shouting profanities at policemen or racist slurs at local students, all kinda of stuff. the stuff that gets you a case in front of the judicial committee. whatever your ideas on the morals and standards of doctors, we can all agree that there is a line. just be careful you dont make some stupid mistake and cross that line, nad then regret it for the rest of your life. i think that is the idea here..
what the 4th termer daguru said.

[daguru]

This is college for godsake!! Let people have fun....as long as they do well in class, that is fine by me. People go through cycles...let them enjoy while they are at it! It is not going to last forever....ya heard!


ummm...it's med school.

'ya heard'? what is this, rap station XYZ's bulletin board? i thought it was valuemd....maybe im at the wrong site...

:)

[jaywalk81]

ummm...it's med school.

'ya heard'? what is this, rap station XYZ's bulletin board? i thought it was valuemd....maybe im at the wrong site...

:)
actually more like "i read"
ok that was stupid...

[Manny22]

que voice over in the voice of that guy who does voice overs for that show the rich and the famous....

"and myyyyyyyyyyyy how the tides have turned... from innocent advice and forwarning of gossip to ...can't really say...but until next time [que slogan]"

[jaywalk81]

que voice over in the voice of that guy who does voice overs for that show the rich and the famous....

"and myyyyyyyyyyyy how the tides have turned... from innocent advice and forwarning of gossip to ...can't really say...but until next time [que slogan]"
what? i totally lost you on that one manny...is that canadian?

[rokshana]

This is college for godsake!! Let people have fun....as long as they do well in class, that is fine by me. People go through cycles...let them enjoy while they are at it! It is not going to last forever....ya heard!

no "college" is the 4 years after high school and you get an undergraduate degree, like a B.S. or a B.A. This is M-E-D-I-C-A-L School, even if some think it is Club Med. You are an adult now (or should be) and in a Professionlal Graduate school. There is a difference.

[RussianJoo]

ok now you guys are getting off topic!!!!

Ok based on my interpretation of the first post by Dr.Nick. Dr. Nick said that he wouldn't refer his patients to people who partied in medical school because he thought they were acting unprofessionally by having a good time after exams or on the weekends...

IT had nothing to do with showing up drunk to work or crossing any work/private life lines. it strictly had to do with the private life, what people did during their free time. And to that I said that 95% or more the doctors get wasted and party and use "I am doctor.." Line to get women in bed... and the fact that they party and cut loose has nothing to do with what kind of doctors they are or what kind of doctor you are going to be.

As doctors we don't really have any ethical decisions to make.. all the decisions are made by our patients. A patient comes in complaining of something you diagnose their problem and provide treatment options, the patient then decides on what treatment they want to have done to them. The doctors ethics or morals never come into play... Maybe in a third world countries where there is one doctor for the whole village who is the surgeon, family doctor, cardiologist, and pediatrician will there be an ethical problem if his/her patient wants an abortion but the doctor is pro-life. But the people who are on this thread aren't going to fall into that category or if they are pro-life they won't pick to be an OB-GYN where they know that part of their job will be doing abortions. Thus I say as long as your grades are good and you don’t do anything illegal, feel free to drink and screw as much as you want, as long as it on your free time.


and on that note i think i officially killed this topic. hahaha

[jaywalk81]

yea this thread has been killed...
but i do think that ethics do come into play as physicians in the real world and a doctor's moral and stuff do come into the Rx.
as we would like to think that the healthcare is run by the consumer (patients), its really run and controlled by the providers.

[drturtle]

As doctors we don't really have any ethical decisions to make.. all the decisions are made by our patients.
That's a very bold statement. There are a lot of ethical decisions that a doctor will make in practice. For example, should a physician stop life-support on a vegetative patient to save hospital resources if the family says No? Should a physician perform assisted suicide? There are a lot of issues at hand and these examples are merely the tip of the iceburg. Just want to clarify that as physicians, we will have to deal with ethical decisions.

[rokshana]

As doctors we don't really have any ethical decisions to make.. all the decisions are made by our patients. A patient comes in complaining of something you diagnose their problem and provide treatment options, the patient then decides on what treatment they want to have done to them. The doctors ethics or morals never come into play... Maybe in a third world countries where there is one doctor for the whole village who is the surgeon, family doctor, cardiologist, and pediatrician will there be an ethical problem if his/her patient wants an abortion but the doctor is pro-life. But the people who are on this thread aren't going to fall into that category or if they are pro-life they won't pick to be an OB-GYN where they know that part of their job will be doing abortions.


Do you really think that as doctors our ethics and morals have not play in how we practice medicine? Or that its only in the third world that doctors are looked upon as perfect, all knowing, and infallible? Or that pro-life people do not choose to become Ob/Gyns? Of course people who are pro-life become Ob/Gyns- how best to spread their philosophy and influence people - therre in the trenches so to speak. I have a classmate from grad school who is very very pro-life (very black and white in her opinions about abortion- there is no gray area for her) and she just finished her OB/GYN residency this last June and is a practicing OB. You can bet your bippy that her morals and values influence very decesion she makes medically and influences the advice she gives her patients. Plus abortions are no longer "part of the job"- did you know that only 20 % of US medical schools have any teaching on the physiology and practice of abortions, that most residents get no training on how to perform an abortion and that over 75% of the counties in the US have no physician performing abortions?(I'm not trying to change the topic her, but RJ brought up the hot button of abortion and it makes for a good example).

No there is nothing wrong with "partying" so to speak- I've had my share, but at some point you gotta realize that you are a grown up, that you as a physician will be held to a higher standard, and that you are a role model, and you need to be responsible and put away those childish ways.
Don't be naiive enough to think that your actions don't have consequences and that you will only dole out the medical care requested by a patient - if that was the case there would be no need for doctors and you could get tx at your nearby Taco Bell drive through.

[payal83]

something similar happened last night on grey's anatomy.
porn can stimulate endorphine level, thus alleviating pain

Yeah I saw that episode, the Asian chick was talking dirty to him:twisted: Hey, whatever makes you feel better, anyway he was asking for it...

[teratos]

As physicians, much of the decision making is ours. How can patients make informed decisions?? They can be given SOME information, but it doesn't take much to overload folks, especially when they are sick. Can you really present all the options available in a logical way in a short period of time? Do you ask patients what antibiotics you should put them on? Ethics is a fancy way of saying you are doing the right thing for the patient. That is the most important thing. What you do should benefit them, and perhaps more importantly, you should do no harm. G

[sarahtarah]

funny thing is, i've never had a drink in my life, so i have no idea how someone would function being hungover.

i've seen the two extremes, people who CAN totally function, and like ya'll said, put their personal issues aside, AND i've seen people who CAN'T function...the point I was going with just for the sake of argument.

And you're right, same goes with a dr. whos pms-ing. But I mean, pms isnt something thats totally in your control either, you choose to drink, you can't exactly choose not to have pms.

[Manny22]

what? i totally lost you on that one manny...is that canadian?


you know that guy ...
....nevermind...but back to the topic... no one likes a gossip, neener neener