California clinical sites

[pkimm]

How hard is it to match clinicals with hospitals in CA?

What clinical sites are most desirable?

[McGillGrad]

How hard is it to match clinicals with hospitals in CA?

What clinical sites are most desirable?


I have wondered the same thing and I have yet to receive a straight answer.

It has been suggested that it is a first come-first serve deal so I guess that if you pas your step 1 faster than the rest and request Cali, then you should technically have a good chance.

The clinical sites depend on what you want to get out of them. if you want to stay in one area for the whole time then go to New York. if you want to move around then you have more choice.

[badnewsbearer]

You won’t get a response either unfortunately unless you get your hands dirty. What I mean is that Ross on paper does have an affiliation with California rotation sites (they are listed under a sticky and include
City of Hope, Arrowhead in San Bernardino, et al) but these sites see VERY few Ross students, esp. as of late.
Kern is the jewel of these CA sites because among many other reasons you can complete ALL core and electives there, and they have a great program. There is a caveat, or two, though. You cannot do any core rotations outside of Kern or you are disqualified from applying, period. Secondly, Kern has its own acceptance procedure, and only admits in August and January. Think about this, and you will slowly understand why NO Ross students were accepted to Kern in August 2005. If you start in December semester and finish Miami in July, you would need to have taken the Step 1 exam basically before Miami Semester 5 to apply for the Fall admission. Don’t like that? Well, you can wait until January acceptance period, but that means you broke Ross rule #1207: You did not begin a clinical rotation with the specified time. You are withdrawn and need to reapply to be admitted, and who knows what that does to your Kern application. By the way, if you like financial aid, which stops as soon as you leave Miami (excluding a private loan offered when you take a prep course) and if you are withdrawn you certainly don’t qualify.
Back to the original point, if you wait until January or for a full extra year until August for Kern, you probably want to get going with some rotations, but no other Ross site in California has electives, so know your coordinator is suggesting Wyckoff for the mean time because they have a spot for you there tomorrow.
No joke, this is how it is going down for us. Usually there are 25 applicants, and 3 seems to be the number Kern accepts if they accept Ross students. These three will have a 4.0 and scores over 230.
I don’t want to Ross bash, simply giving it to you as it is. It’s a tricky dance and it might work easier for those that start semester 1 in fall, are politically persuasive, brilliant and are financially affluent.

[anencephalic]

Kern is the jewel of these CA sites because among many other reasons you can complete ALL core and electives there, and they have a great program. There is a caveat, or two, though. You cannot do any core rotations outside of Kern or you are disqualified from applying, period. Secondly, Kern has its own acceptance procedure, and only admits in August and January. Think about this, and you will slowly understand why NO Ross students were accepted to Kern in August 2005.

I started rotations at Kern in July. Some of my other classmates started their rotations at KMC in May. I know of one girl from Ross who came aboard in September.

That being said, it is very competitive due to the factors such as california desirability and the ability to do all of your cores back to back in one location.

It's competitive for AUC, SGU, and Ross according to the students I've spoken to from these schools. Don't know how it is for the DO students form Touro that we rotate with.

Aloha,

Aloha,

[link626]

so that would mean that students who start semester 1 in september would be right on track for august acceptance to Kern.

Anyhow, the way i see it is that if you don't get into Kern, go to New York. By rotating through all those crappy ross-affil hospitals, you'll at least accumulate a good sum of knowledge and have lots of variety.


so you say Kern takes 4.0 230 students? What about those 2.0 250+ students? There are a few like that...........

[Gator98MD]

Another option is to do what i did. I did all of my cores in NYC and then did a bunch of electives at Kern. I didnt originally plan to do it this way, but it worked out in the end as i just got tired of NYC and wanted to try something new for some of my electives. Housing is not difficult to get around Kern either. I know it is a pain to move during clinicals but for me it turned out to be a great move personally and academically. Kern has a very good program and good electives. Just something to think about, I think it may be easier to get in there for electives than it is for cores.

[microphage]

I started rotations at Kern in July. Some of my other classmates started their rotations at KMC in May. I know of one girl from Ross who came aboard in September.

That being said, it is very competitive due to the factors such as california desirability and the ability to do all of your cores back to back in one location.

It's competitive for AUC, SGU, and Ross according to the students I've spoken to from these schools. Don't know how it is for the DO students form Touro that we rotate with.

Aloha,

Aloha,

I don't know... I don't think Kern is competitive for AUC.. Just look at me, even a useless member like me got Kern.

but on the bright side for Ross, there were a few Rossies who started in October. things may finally be looking up for them.

[link626]

I don't know... I don't think Kern is competitive for AUC.. Just look at me, even a useless member like me got Kern.
.


how useless are you academically? were you useless on step 1 too?

[microphage]

how useless are you academically? were you useless on step 1 too?

I'm entirely useless. I wouldn't have it any other way. ;)

[dimples]

I was informed by Ross administrators that the competitiveness of getting a spot at Kern is not due to the hospital, but due to the Ross clinical advisors. It is there way of making it "fair" due to the high demand so I guess they give it to the Ross brainiacs. I know a person from another carib school who is doing cores at Kern and the person is far from stellar academically.

[pkimm]

So, what if you start in 1st sem of med school in Jan? Do you have to wait till aug or sept for for kern?

[justdoit]

Kern sounds like a great place to shoot for.... but do they offer all ACGME core rotations?
I only found Family, Internal, OB, and surgery listed under Kern Medical Center that were listed on the ACGME website as approved. The other cores were there but not ACGME approved.
If anyone has more info on this I'd be grateful....I'm only interested in the cores.
Thanks!

[McGillGrad]

Kern sounds like a great place to shoot for.... but do they offer all ACGME core rotations?
I only found Family, Internal, OB, and surgery listed under Kern Medical Center that were listed on the ACGME website as approved. The other cores were there but not ACGME approved.
If anyone has more info on this I'd be grateful....I'm only interested in the cores.
Thanks!

I guess you did not see my post where I listed each hospital and the ACGME approved rotations.

Depending on the state, the fact that Kern has FM means all cores are valid.

http://www.valuemd.com/ross-university-school-medicine/44392-part-1-acgme-approved-ross-clinicals.html

CALIFORNIA

Kern
Emergency medicine
Family medicine
Internal medicine
OB/GYN
Psychiatry
General surgery

[MitchDC]

Once again, students and prospects need to know that unless you are planning to practice in Pennsylvania all the clerkships DO NOT NEED TO BE ACGME APPROVED. For most states, including CALIFORNIA, as long as the site has an approved Family Medicine residency, the rest of the rotations are approved. Why? Because in order to have an approved Family Medicine residency program you must prove that the other areas of your facility meet educational standards as well, since Family Medicine Residents rotate through all the specialties during their training.

-M

Kern sounds like a great place to shoot for.... but do they offer all ACGME core rotations?
I only found Family, Internal, OB, and surgery listed under Kern Medical Center that were listed on the ACGME website as approved. The other cores were there but not ACGME approved.
If anyone has more info on this I'd be grateful....I'm only interested in the cores.
Thanks!

[RUJC05]

"By the way, if you like financial aid, which stops as soon as you leave Miami (excluding a private loan offered when you take a prep course)"

What do you mean? We don't get financial aids for clinical semesters 6-10?

[homerbrave]

"By the way, if you like financial aid, which stops as soon as you leave Miami (excluding a private loan offered when you take a prep course)"

What do you mean? We don't get financial aids for clinical semesters 6-10?

YES, WE DO. Think about it for a minute. How else would most of us pay tuition and living expense? we get Stafford and Alternative loans just like in basic sciences.

My experience with the NJ financial aid since the hiring of the new financial aid director has been very positive. She really stays on top of things and has helped me alot during this interviewing season.

[RUJC05]

That's good to know. Badnewsbearer scared me there for a minute with his post.

[badnewsbearer]

R,
As is with undergrad, if you aren’t "in school" (taking classes or starting clerkship), you don’t qualify for loans. My point was that while we wait for scores to come back, application windows to open and applications to be processed, there is down time. If it is long enough, you lose aid. I.E., when 5th could be taken as a 9 or 12 week program, choosing 9 weeks meant financial aid office only released the fraction 9/12 (3/4) of aid, and withholds the rest. You are responsible for supplementing your own income here.
I have several friends that qualified for the special Larkin rotation after taking the step and came back to Miami because financially this was easier.
It really has nothing to do with the attitudes of people in the financial aid office, but more the structuring of the curriculum. The lenders cannot issue aid unless you are actively taking a course load, period. Law students, however, have fixed this by speaking out to lenders and you might notice in your Stafford loan applications that they can apply for a Bar Study loan (aid so that they can keep non private aid while studying for the bar.

Housing near Kern is very easy....houses are priced well under CA median and rent is low. Good to hear folks start off track....plz pm if clinical coordinators were essential in this, or more independent efforts.

[Diegodoc]

As a current 5th semester student trying to figure out where i will do rotations I can tell you that from the clinical advisors i have spoken with this is the information i got re: Kern.

1st: They only have start dates available in August and Jan.
2nd: You must have a min GPA of 3.5 and a min step score of 210
3rd: You may NOT do any core in any other hospital or you are automatically disqualified, however you can do elective rotations while waiting to start if need be.
4th: They accept few ross students who meet the above criteria. It helps ALOT if you speak spanish, and/or have good reccomendations from "powerful" people in the clinical dept at ross who you should become very good "friends" with during 5th if you want to rotate through Kern.



Hope this helps.

[link626]

As a current 5th semester student trying to figure out where i will do rotations I can tell you that from the clinical advisors i have spoken with this is the information i got re: Kern.

1st: They only have start dates available in August and Jan.
2nd: You must have a min GPA of 3.5 and a min step score of 210
3rd: You may NOT do any core in any other hospital or you are automatically disqualified, however you can do elective rotations while waiting to start if need be.
4th: They accept few ross students who meet the above criteria. It helps ALOT if you speak spanish, and/or have good reccomendations from "powerful" people in the clinical dept at ross who you should become very good "friends" with during 5th if you want to rotate through Kern.



Hope this helps.



so there goes that option. lots of butt kissing toe sucking required.

is bakersfield a heavily hispanic community?

so what's the lowdown on the other clinical sites' requirements? is chicago just as hard?

[microphage]

so there goes that option. lots of butt kissing toe sucking required.

is bakersfield a heavily hispanic community?

so what's the lowdown on the other clinical sites' requirements? is chicago just as hard?

bakersfield has a large hispanic community so brush up on your spanish...

[Diegodoc]

From what i have heard chicago is not quite as tough to get into as kern. They do not have a published step 1 cutoff, nor a rigorous application process. Also they have rolling start dates so they are a little easier schedule wise. I think i have pretty much sold myself on the idea of just going to new york for clinicals... just less hassle.

[Gator98MD]

I did an ER elective at Kern and i would say at least 50% of the patients I saw spoke spanish only. Not a lick of english nor did they try. Yes, you better know spanish if you rotate there.

[MitchDC]

Yes, Chicago is more-or-less first-come first-served while Kern hand picks their students.

-M

From what i have heard chicago is not quite as tough to get into as kern. They do not have a published step 1 cutoff, nor a rigorous application process. Also they have rolling start dates so they are a little easier schedule wise. I think i have pretty much sold myself on the idea of just going to new york for clinicals... just less hassle.

[microphage]

I did an ER elective at Kern and i would say at least 50% of the patients I saw spoke spanish only. Not a lick of english nor did they try. Yes, you better know spanish if you rotate there.

lets see... I only know about 4 phrases in spanish. and one of their responses better be "bien" because I can't understand anything else.

[justdoit]

Once again, students and prospects need to know that unless you are planning to practice in Pennsylvania all the clerkships DO NOT NEED TO BE ACGME APPROVED. For most states, including CALIFORNIA, as long as the site has an approved Family Medicine residency, the rest of the rotations are approved. Why? Because in order to have an approved Family Medicine residency program you must prove that the other areas of your facility meet educational standards as well, since Family Medicine Residents rotate through all the specialties during their training.

-M

Thanks Mitch for fully answering my question.....it makes more sense now. I'll have to check with my state and make sure they will accept this. I'm not sure they will because they told me before that they do not consider or accept family practice as a core rotation.
That's kind of strange huh? Has anyone else ever heard of this before?

[MitchDC]

Some states don't require a family medicine clerkship but most do. So its not that your state won't ACCEPT one it is that they don't REQUIRE one. They will just count your FM clerkship as an elective. Ross requires an FM CORE because most states require it and they would rather have their students qualified for most states than not qualified for most states.

VERY VERY VERY few states, like only Pennsylvania that I am aware of, will only accept clerkships at a hospital where they have a residency in that specialty. But that is extremely rare.

What state are you considering?

-M

Thanks Mitch for fully answering my question.....it makes more sense now. I'll have to check with my state and make sure they will accept this. I'm not sure they will because they told me before that they do not consider or accept family practice as a core rotation.
That's kind of strange huh? Has anyone else ever heard of this before?

[justdoit]

Some states don't require a family medicine clerkship but most do. So its not that your state won't ACCEPT one it is that they don't REQUIRE one. They will just count your FM clerkship as an elective. Ross requires an FM CORE because most states require it and they would rather have their students qualified for most states than not qualified for most states.

VERY VERY VERY few states, like only Pennsylvania that I am aware of, will only accept clerkships at a hospital where they have a residency in that specialty. But that is extremely rare.

What state are you considering?

-M

Virginia!......and every dang time I call the boards I get the same woman that acts like she rather be doing anything other than answering your question. She makes it seem so black and white.....like you basically can only do cores that are listed on the acgme website and that's it. The only person that can answer my question wasn't there today. I'm going to call back tomorrow and see what they say concerning the other cores falling under the family practice umbrella. I hope you're right!

[Dru]

Linked this thread to the Ross Clinical Sticky re. Kern.

Dru

[justdoit]

Virginia!......and every dang time I call the boards I get the same woman that acts like she rather be doing anything other than answering your question. She makes it seem so black and white.....like you basically can only do cores that are listed on the acgme website and that's it. The only person that can answer my question wasn't there today. I'm going to call back tomorrow and see what they say concerning the other cores falling under the family practice umbrella. I hope you're right!

OK here's the deal, I spoke with the Virginia State Boards yesterday, you do have to have all core acgme approved rotations and a family practice residency has nothing to do with the other approved cores.....as a matter of fact VA only accepts the family practice rotation as an elective, it's not considered a core. The electives do not have to be acgme approved....so that's pretty much it in a nut shell.

[justdoit]

As a current 5th semester student trying to figure out where i will do rotations I can tell you that from the clinical advisors i have spoken with this is the information i got re: Kern.

1st: They only have start dates available in August and Jan.
2nd: You must have a min GPA of 3.5 and a min step score of 210
3rd: You may NOT do any core in any other hospital or you are automatically disqualified, however you can do elective rotations while waiting to start if need be.
4th: They accept few ross students who meet the above criteria. It helps ALOT if you speak spanish, and/or have good reccomendations from "powerful" people in the clinical dept at ross who you should become very good "friends" with during 5th if you want to rotate through Kern.



Hope this helps.


Well a guess Kern's "not all that"! Looking at number 3, you may not do any other cores outside of the hospital or you're disqualified is ridiculous. That means someone like myself in Virginia would not be able to attend Kern (which supposedly is so great because you can do all your rotations in one place) because they do not have a core peds acgme rotation. So yes McGillgrad I saw your list, as a matter of fact I have my own list I did along time ago.....I was making a point that Kern does not have all approved core rotations, so students who need all approved core rotations would not be able to attend Kern. The only place to go if you want to stay at one facility for approved cores is the BIG APPLE! :( that is according to my research.....anyone feel free to correct me if I'm
wrong.

[microphage]

Well a guess Kern's "not all that"! Looking at number 3, you may not do any other cores outside of the hospital or you're disqualified is ridiculous. That means someone like myself in Virginia would not be able to attend Kern (which supposedly is so great because you can do all your rotations in one place) because they do not have a core peds acgme rotation. So yes McGillgrad I saw your list, as a matter of fact I have my own list I did along time ago.....I was making a point that Kern does not have all approved core rotations, so students who need all approved core rotations would not be able to attend Kern. The only place to go if you want to stay at one facility for approved cores is the BIG APPLE! :( that is according to my research.....anyone feel free to correct me if I'm
wrong.

You're wrong. ;)

I've seen Ross and AUC people who have done psych before they came here. The psych rotation they did before now counts as an elective so they do have to take it over but they can still get into kern.

[microphage]

OK here's the deal, I spoke with the Virginia State Boards yesterday, you do have to have all core acgme approved rotations and a family practice residency has nothing to do with the other approved cores.....as a matter of fact VA only accepts the family practice rotation as an elective, it's not considered a core. The electives do not have to be acgme approved....so that's pretty much it in a nut shell.

FP is required elective but it's not a core.

[justdoit]

FP is required elective but it's not a core.

What do you mean it's not a required core? I thought Ross considered FP to be a core regardless of what each individual state considers it to be?
Are you saying Kern doesn't consider it to be a core? It guess it doesn't really matter to me anyway because Virginia considers it to be an elective and electives do not have to be acgme approved.


You're wrong. :wink:

I've seen Ross and AUC people who have done psych before they came here. The psych rotation they did before now counts as an elective so they do have to take it over but they can still get into kern.


Maybe they're wrong....I'm quoting what someone else said about not being able to do rotations outside of Kern.;)
OK so you can take a acgme approved psych prior to going to Kern but you have to retake it again at Kern....that it sooo ridiculous. If you have to retake a perfectly good rotation that you've already had..... SCREW Kern. That's just my opinion.

[microphage]

What do you mean it's not a required core? I thought Ross considered FP to be a core regardless of what each individual state considers it to be?
Are you saying Kern doesn't consider it to be a core? It guess it doesn't really matter to me anyway because Virginia considers it to be an elective and electives do not have to be acgme approved.



Maybe they're wrong....I'm quoting what someone else said about not being able to do rotations outside of Kern.;)
OK so you can take a acgme approved psych prior to going to Kern but you have to retake it again at Kern....that it sooo ridiculous. If you have to retake a perfectly good rotation that you've already had..... SCREW Kern. That's just my opinion.

ah.. so you're just hatin' no matter what. :D

[justdoit]

ah.. so you're just hatin' no matter what. :D

ah....oh yeah that's gotta be it.:rolleyes:

[grace]

Once again, students and prospects need to know that unless you are planning to practice in Pennsylvania all the clerkships DO NOT NEED TO BE ACGME APPROVED. For most states, including CALIFORNIA, as long as the site has an approved Family Medicine residency, the rest of the rotations are approved. Why? Because in order to have an approved Family Medicine residency program you must prove that the other areas of your facility meet educational standards as well, since Family Medicine Residents rotate through all the specialties during their training.

-M

What about Texas? I've heard that they require all ACGME approved sites as well, however I haven't researched this myself.

[grace]

FP is required elective but it's not a core.

According to who? Did AUC change FP back to an elective? I know that here at Marshall FP is a core.

[microphage]

According to who? Did AUC change FP back to an elective? I know that here at Marshall FP is a core.

AUC calls it a "required" elective...

[swimguy23]

AUC calls it a "required" elective...

micro is right

[grace]

Well, FP was always considered a required elective, but I thought it was recently changed to a core. Besides, check out this statement on their website...

"Core Clerkships are the foundation of the student’s clinical education framework. It includes Internal Medicine, Surgery, Pediatrics, Obstetrics and Gynecology, Psychiatry and Family Medicine."

[MedChe]

ok, this question might have been answered already but ill ask it anyway. I already did(my mistake) Family practice DO program for six weeks. if i do a Family practice MD family sub i for four or six weeks. will that be sufficient to meet the requirement for the california letter?:shock:

[Dru]

Keep in mind that this is a resurected thread, and information may not be current &/or accurate.

[Wajaro]

When do these old threads get retired?

[Dru]

Unfortunately, we do not have an archiving process. In some instances it is wise to dig up an old thread if it still has pertenent data. Computerization and electronic archiving lacks a certain human element of prudent decisions...that's why they call it artificial intelligence.

[badnewsbearer]

Yeah it is always necessary to check the post date located above the window in the left hand corner. Dont assume that the messages post in order as they seem to get buried.

My comments on Kern are all as of 2006. My general summary of my opinions is spanish doesnt matter, and gpa isnt even as important as your step score. If you score over 240, welcome to Bakersfield.
Emphasizing this point further, the interview process is one phone interview. Not very balanced, IMHO.

[IslandGirl]

How do I find out what electives are offered at kern without contacting my advisor??

[singer]

How do I find out what electives are offered at kern without contacting my advisor??

there is a rulle that you can't call a ROSS affiliate for CORE rotations but you can go online and or look at the clinical list your advisor should have emailed you and call Kern directly for scheduling ELECTIVES