The disparity continues....why?

[birthcontrol]

Why is it that the Cayman campus was able to take their Comprehensive shelf one week ago today, before finals began, while the students at the Maine campus have the pleasure of taking it in the middle of finals week? Double standard you say…aaaaahhhhh, but that’s not the kicker, the great news is that students on the Cayman campus can get up to 5 % extra credit, depending on how they do on their exam…yes, that’s right, a big 5 % that can help them pass a class or even move into a higher grade bracket and that’s across the board…now the funny part…back to the Maine campus, we just get the “pleasure” of taken the shelf for our own edification since the experience is invaluable in preparing us for the boards…yup…that’s right no extra credit, regardless how well you do on the exam…that’s right…zero…zilch…hahahahhaha…now that’s too funny. Are you paying attention California, here’s one more for yah!

Bottom line: Cayman campus gets the carrot and Maine campus gets the stick…again…hahahahaha….I wonder if Dr. P is, once again, the mastermind behind this silliness or maybe it’s a concerted effort…why that’s almost scary! Now do any of the big boys want to respond and explain why the disparity continues?...just kidding because we all know that they will never respond because there is no reasonable answer other than it is the truth, it’s wrong and they know it.

[cokecoke]

i totally agree with you..... someone plz explain why
in addition, what da hell was wrong with pharm finals. it was just ridiculous, they just wasted my time to study that crap.

[birthcontrol]

Looks like California was right all along. That's why no school officials will respond to these threads.

[MDTOB]

Totally not fair!

We should get extra credit too!

What the "heck"!

[Junito]

I have to agree with you guys on that one. It is a shame that there is a double standard. If the Cayman campus gets extra points, so should we. Maybe we can address this with Dr. G I tell some students to sign a petition, or for us to stand up to the admin, and I just see yellow all the way. In the end, if it doesn't affect them, they don't care. My heart goes out to all who could use those extra points. It is a pure travesty, shame on the SMU Maine campus admin.

Juni

[eastcoastchic]

Um, I hate to sound indifferent but no one is forcing anyone to attend classes in Maine. It is also my understanding that you can complete Masters and stay in Cayman. There shouldn't be disparity between the campuses, but if it's such a huge problem and it's effecting everyone in such a profound manner why not just remove yourselves from a bad situation? I mean I don't disagree that the complaints should be filed and there should be some sort of change but in the meantime do something about it. Also recognize that as in many universities the policies vary from campus to campus, this might just be one of those cases. Good luck on finals everyone.

[onesolo]

Um, I hate to sound indifferent but no one is forcing anyone to attend classes in Maine. It is also my understanding that you can complete Masters and stay in Cayman. There shouldn't be disparity between the campuses, but if it's such a huge problem and it's effecting everyone in such a profound manner why not just remove yourselves from a bad situation? I mean I don't disagree that the complaints should be filed and there should be some sort of change but in the meantime do something about it. Also recognize that as in many universities the policies vary from campus to campus, this might just be one of those cases. Good luck on finals everyone.

I agree with you there!

[taole23]

You guys need to grow up, if you are complaining about 5%, then you're going to have a tough time in the future...it should never come to the point where the 5% extra credit even matters...do your damn work and there will be nothing for you to complain about...i just took the step1 and if you guys are complaining about something small like this, well, god help you..

[MD999]

There shouldn't have been given extra credit for the shelf in Cayman's campus,but it was.

But there is extra credit being offered in Pharm in Maine. Why dont you guys just do that? It's worth a few percentage points so I think that kinda narrows the gap (aka DISPARITY) between the "cayman shelf extra credit" (3-6% extra credit) with MAINE'S PHARM Extra credit (1-4%) I believe.
*Does Cayman Pharm get offered the same extra credit?? NOPE! Stop complaining!

If anybody was more than a few points away from passing, stop complaining on this forum and accept the fact that you DONT KNOW PHARMACOLOGY enough to safely practice medicine.

PS: "Birthcontrol"...why dont you grow some B@LLS and address the administration in person or by starting a petition among your classmates? Rather than coming on here, and overkilling the "disparity" issue, trying to throw "California" in there to sensitize things a bit...lol... textbook psych case study!

[Junito]

I understand your argument, but when the Admin in Maine constantly make the point that we are one school, and that we use some of the same exam questions (for pharm & path), then all other grading policies should be the same. I say don't give Cayman students extra points for the Comp if we are not going to get any here in Maine. Make it an even playing field. So I get an 80 in pharm in Maine, but if I would have an 90 (and honored the class) if I did the same effort in Cayman. Sorry but that is not fair, no matter how you put it.

Juni

Um, I hate to sound indifferent but no one is forcing anyone to attend classes in Maine. It is also my understanding that you can complete Masters and stay in Cayman. There shouldn't be disparity between the campuses, but if it's such a huge problem and it's effecting everyone in such a profound manner why not just remove yourselves from a bad situation? I mean I don't disagree that the complaints should be filed and there should be some sort of change but in the meantime do something about it. Also recognize that as in many universities the policies vary from campus to campus, this might just be one of those cases. Good luck on finals everyone.

[onesolo]

There shouldn't have been given extra credit for the shelf in Cayman's campus,but it was.

But there is extra credit being offered in Pharm in Maine. Why dont you guys just do that? It's worth a few percentage points so I think that kinda narrows the gap (aka DISPARITY) between the "cayman shelf extra credit" (3-6% extra credit) with MAINE'S PHARM Extra credit (1-4%) I believe.
*Does Cayman Pharm get offered the same extra credit?? NOPE! Stop complaining!

If anybody was more than a few points away from passing, stop complaining on this forum and accept the fact that you DONT KNOW PHARMACOLOGY enough to safely practice medicine.

PS: "Birthcontrol"...why dont you grow some B@LLS and address the administration in person or by starting a petition among your classmates? Rather than coming on here, and overkilling the "disparity" issue, trying to throw "California" in there to sensitize things a bit...lol... textbook psych case study!

I couldn't agree more with the statement to Birthcontrol. Funny thing is, it seems that all of your post just about are in some manner of a negative fashion. I enjoy reading this board and that includes the positive and the negative. I take away from it what I may and disregard the rest. Seeing that you seem to have "NOTHING" positive to say I question why your still at this school (if your even there)? There are alot of other schools out there that would have taken your money I'm sure.

[MD999]

I understand your argument, but when the Admin in Maine constantly make the point that we are one school, and that we use some of the same exam questions (for pharm & path), then all other grading policies should be the same. I say don't give Cayman students extra points for the Comp if we are not going to get any here in Maine. Make it an even playing field. So I get an 80 in pharm in Maine, but if I would have an 90 (and honored the class) if I did the same effort in Cayman. Sorry but that is not fair, no matter how you put it.

Juni

No offense or anything, but if you naturally didnt earn an honor, ie without extra credit or "curves" then you shouldnt get one. What good is an honor if you truly dont understand 90% of the concepts you were being tested on? It'd give you a false sense of accomplishment.
There are a few SMU students from 2 semesters ago, who "honored" everything, and theyre STILL trying to pass Step 1.
If you get these artificial points that were never truly EARNED, then you fool yourself into thinking that you know the material well enough for clinical practice.
Thats where curves and extra credit do more harm than good.
If I was failing a basic science course, i definantly wouldnt feel right advancing to the next semester after passing "with a curve". I wouldnt be prepared to integrate the new material with old efficiently due to a lack of proper knowledge.

So next time someone says they "honored" a course, ask them if they honored before the curves and extra credits or after it was added on.
I wouldnt put my life in the hands of a physician who thrived off extra credit and curves.

[neilc]

No offense or anything, but if you naturally didnt earn an honor, ie without extra credit or "curves" then you shouldnt get one. What good is an honor if you truly dont understand 90% of the concepts you were being tested on? It'd give you a false sense of accomplishment.
There are a few SMU students from 2 semesters ago, who "honored" everything, and theyre STILL trying to pass Step 1.
If you get these artificial points that were never truly EARNED, then you fool yourself into thinking that you know the material well enough for clinical practice.
Thats where curves and extra credit do more harm than good.
If I was failing a basic science course, i definantly wouldnt feel right advancing to the next semester after passing "with a curve". I wouldnt be prepared to integrate the new material with old efficiently due to a lack of proper knowledge.

So next time someone says they "honored" a course, ask them if they honored before the curves and extra credits or after it was added on.
I wouldnt put my life in the hands of a physician who thrived off extra credit and curves.

so, let me get this straight...you are saying that it is fair for two people at the same school take the same course, and one gets an 80, yet his transcript says honors because of extra credit, and another gets 88 and no chance for extra credit...you think that is fair?

i get your point about extra credit and curves. fine. but, the fact is, they exist at your school, and they should not only exist for certain groups of students. no residency director is going to look at a transcript and ask whether there was extra credit or curves involved. but, they MAY compare your transcript with another student from your school. if you did better in class, and your transcript does not reflect that, you are screwed. and, that is poor form by the school.

[MD999]

They'd only look at transcripts if you BOTH apply for the SAME residency slot and have the SAME USMLE SCORES and have the SAME Letters of Recommendations (LORs). Odds of that happening... very slim.
Residency Directors very RARELY look at Foreign Med school basic science transcripts to compare two students of the same schools.
USMLE Scores and LORs.

An honor doesnt mean anything if YOU know you dont really know enough to honor the material. You can have a 30 pt curve in physio and come out with Honors, but lets be realistic... are you gonna KILL STEP 1's physio portion cuz you "honored" at SMU physio (after that generous curve)?

Either way, thats why Directors look at board scores. You can have all the honors you want, but Step1 is the equalizer here.

Yeah it is the school's fault, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that most of the students complaining about the Pharm "disparities" are either failing or trying to get bumped up to a level that they dont really deserve.

And why arent you mentioning anything about Maine's Extra Credit Pharm?? It's being offered... did you forget that one? I dont see Cayman's 4th semesters coming on here complaining how you guys get one and they dont.

They get the shelf curve, you get the Pharm Extra credit. A lot of people have exaggerated scores as a result. Hopefully this will be a pacifier in their mouths to stop them from complaining. Then they get screwed on USMLE cuz they have a false sense of security of their understanding of a particular subject due to the curve.

I think if anything, you guys arent making the school look bad online, youre making yourselves look like whiners who want easy points.
Screw the disparities, stop complaining and go study.

[birthcontrol]

...I think if anything, you guys arent making the school look bad online, youre making yourselves look like whiners who want easy points.
Screw the disparities, stop complaining and go study.

Please refer back to my original post MD999.

I understand that you are angry and that's o.k. because I'm sure you'll get over it.

I'm just reporting the facts and I see that you've added even more proof of the disparity between the 2 campuses and for that I thank you...kudos!

I encourage everyone to come-up with even more examples just like MD999, I'm sure it shouldn't be too difficult....hahahahahaha.....cheers!

[neilc]

They'd only look at transcripts if you BOTH apply for the SAME residency slot and have the SAME USMLE SCORES and have the SAME Letters of Recommendations (LORs). Odds of that happening... very slim.
Residency Directors very RARELY look at Foreign Med school basic science transcripts to compare two students of the same schools.
USMLE Scores and LORs.

An honor doesnt mean anything if YOU know you dont really know enough to honor the material. You can have a 30 pt curve in physio and come out with Honors, but lets be realistic... are you gonna KILL STEP 1's physio portion cuz you "honored" at SMU physio (after that generous curve)?

Either way, thats why Directors look at board scores. You can have all the honors you want, but Step1 is the equalizer here.

Yeah it is the school's fault, but I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that most of the students complaining about the Pharm "disparities" are either failing or trying to get bumped up to a level that they dont really deserve.

And why arent you mentioning anything about Maine's Extra Credit Pharm?? It's being offered... did you forget that one? I dont see Cayman's 4th semesters coming on here complaining how you guys get one and they dont.

They get the shelf curve, you get the Pharm Extra credit. A lot of people have exaggerated scores as a result. Hopefully this will be a pacifier in their mouths to stop them from complaining. Then they get screwed on USMLE cuz they have a false sense of security of their understanding of a particular subject due to the curve.

I think if anything, you guys arent making the school look bad online, youre making yourselves look like whiners who want easy points.
Screw the disparities, stop complaining and go study.

the point is that a difference exists. i am with you regarding the curves and extra credit. in most cases, they shouldn't be there at all. have a course requirement. the students that meet it, pass. the students that don't, fail. perfect.

however, the problem being discussed is NOT whether these curves and credit are appropriate. what is being discussed is the fact that the school should have the SAME POLICY FOR ALL STUDENTS. if you take pathology at SMU, it should have the same requirements and standards regardless of the physical location of the course. if they are not the same, the school runs the risk of giving an unfair advantage to a group of students, and at the same time runs the risk of losing credibility. it is a legit concern, and if i was at smu, i would be up in arms as well.

the funny thing is that this has such a simple solution. at the begining of the semester, the profs hand out a sylabus, declare the class requirements, and develop the tests for the term. how is that difficult? you can do it online, on the phone, via email, etc...

[khamilton]

I don't really care about this either way but here are my .02. First, the people in Pham in Cayman also have/had an opportunity for extra credit in the form of an oral presentation. Second, there are alot more classes than just pharm (Path, genetics, ICM) and the Shelf credit is applied to all of them. What is boils down to is a lack of consistency. The deans (from both locations) claim that the campuses are identical and that are students are being evaluated and graded the same but as it turns out that is not the case. For my part, it is the untruths that are constantly being told to us that are disturbing and not the disparity in extra credit.

[dxtran]

what's up SMU,
in the midst of all this bickering, i would like to introduce a very beautiful picture from a couple friends who are welcoming the incoming students with the positive light and attitude reflected in their delicate work of art.....just adorable. email me for further details.
Anyway, regarding the shelf curves.....good luck to Maine's failing population that's whining like babies in cradles. Perhaps bring this whining to the dean and save space on the forum for informative posts. Potential applicants need information, not drama.

...good news for the whiners: i missed perfection on previous exam by like....one question. But u dont hear me complaining, do ya? hmm? ok....

dxtran,
a.k.a--baller

[ol' man]

Maybe we can all get dxtran to tutor us with his infinite knowledge?

[Junito]

So if I don't deserve to honor a course, it is okay for a Cayman student to honor it instead. You are not making sense. The point is that I will be competing with my other fellow classmates, and it could make the playing field uneven by giving the Cayman students extra credit for the Comp. I say don't give them any. I don't need the points, so shouldn't they. I busted my but in Path 2, high passed it, and yet a joe schmoe from Cayman did less work than I will honor it? NOT FAIR! NO MATTER HOW YOU PUT IT. Either you give points in both campuses or don't give none at all for the comp shelf.

Juni

No offense or anything, but if you naturally didnt earn an honor, ie without extra credit or "curves" then you shouldnt get one. What good is an honor if you truly dont understand 90% of the concepts you were being tested on? It'd give you a false sense of accomplishment.
There are a few SMU students from 2 semesters ago, who "honored" everything, and theyre STILL trying to pass Step 1.
If you get these artificial points that were never truly EARNED, then you fool yourself into thinking that you know the material well enough for clinical practice.
Thats where curves and extra credit do more harm than good.
If I was failing a basic science course, i definantly wouldnt feel right advancing to the next semester after passing "with a curve". I wouldnt be prepared to integrate the new material with old efficiently due to a lack of proper knowledge.

So next time someone says they "honored" a course, ask them if they honored before the curves and extra credits or after it was added on.
I wouldnt put my life in the hands of a physician who thrived off extra credit and curves.

[Junito]

For those in the Maine campus: Make sure to send an email to Dr. N and CC it to Dr. Th. State that the 70% rule should be applied to both campuses and that the extra credit offered to students at the cayman campus (from the comp) is unfair, and also should be offered to students in the Maine campus. Send it through you smu account. Try to do this as soon as possible.

Juni

[giggles]

For those in the Maine campus: Make sure to send an email to Dr. N and CC it to Dr. Th. State that the 70% rule should be applied to both campuses and that the extra credit offered to students at the cayman campus (from the comp) is unfair, and also should be offered to students in the Maine campus. Send it through you smu account. Try to do this as soon as possible.

Juni

Although I appreciate your comments Juni, I think that you're being a little too quick to judge

[MD999]

Extra credit or not, if a person doesnt know pharmacology, they dont know pharmacology. They can give 80 pts curve, who cares, because the only one being fooled is the person who is getting the curve.

Instead of trying to get more extra credit points, you should start a petition for:

1. No extra credit in any way (except for rule #4)

2. Exact same ciricculum (syllabi, lectures, reviews) at both campuses
3. Same exact exams at both campuses

4. Questions that 70% of the class gets wrong, thrown out (odds are the question wasnt written correctly)

5. Whoever fails after all this, deserves to fail.


This will guarantee equality and eliminate "disparities".

And if you need a curve to "honor" pharm... you're just setting yourself for disappointment come USMLE time.
You're gonna think you mastered the subject, not study it as hard because you "honored" it, and then get screwed on that portion of Step 1.

[Junito]

No one is being judgmental. Do you even know what is the underlying issue? First of all the Maine students (well the majority) are bothered by the discrepancies between the campuses when it comes to the Comp shelf. I am not the only one. Are you even on the Maine campus? I was asked to post what I did previously so that we could get the ball rolling. So far Dr. N was flooded with emails complaining about the comp shelf issue. I am not the only one.

Juni

[Junito]

Now you don't know me personally, and are now making assumptions. Remember what they say when you ASSume... I know how to study for the boards have been doing so since 3rd semester, aside from my regular course load. Try talking about things you do know.

Juni

And if you need a curve to "honor" pharm... you're just setting yourself for disappointment come USMLE time.
You're gonna think you mastered the subject, not study it as hard because you "honored" it, and then get screwed on that portion of Step 1.

[giggles]

Now you don't know me personally, and are now making assumptions. Remember what they say when you ASSume... I know how to study for the boards have been doing so since 3rd semester, aside from my regular course load. Try talking about things you do know.

Juni

Why are so many of you Maine guys so angry, we haven't done anything to you, we study just as hard as you guys and we also have to struggle for our grades?

[MD999]

Now you don't know me personally, and are now making assumptions. Remember what they say when you ASSume... I know how to study for the boards have been doing so since 3rd semester, aside from my regular course load. Try talking about things you do know.

Juni

Yeah I am in Maine as well. Good for you.I've been studying for boards all along with my courseload as well. Im glad you study, I would hope you do. As far as I'm concerned, I would ASSume that a medical student's studying for boards begins on Day 1 of medical school. I think I know a little more about board prep that a lot of people do, so I am talking about things I know. And flat out, to me, and I'm gonna ASSume this:
It seems that you guys are coming on here and being babies just to get extra points. If you arent happy in Maine because of the "disparities" you shouldve stayed in Cayman or Ross or wherever youre from.
It seems as if you guys think you can come on the forum, cry, complain and try to pressure the administration to give you guys the points just to shut you guys up and not make the school look bad, hence "birthcontrol"s references to California.

Maine NEVER used to give curves or baby points, and I dont like how theyre doing it now for everybody. That was kinda the gist of it all... back in the day...you take Masters, people call you "crazy" for doing it cuz Maine is "so hard". But knowing I am going to bust my butt in Maine, I work hard in Cayman. Then when I get to Maine, things flip and next thing you know there's "petitions" trying to get started by students. Kinda funny.

I dont want or need curves in Maine. I never did need them. I'll let my Step 1 score report do all the talking, I dont need an exaggerated Pharm score to tell me I know my pharm. I'll let the Score report have that one little asterick on the far right side to let me know that I know Pharm enough to practice medicine.

Maybe some other Maine students should start a petition NOT to let there be curves, how does that sound?

I ASSume it would get a lot of people mad huh? But I also ASSume it'd prevent a lot of medical errors if G*d forbid one of these students who needs "curves" to pass actual does be allowed to practice medicine on a patient.

But what do I know? I needed a curve to ASSume these things.
Study hard, do well, and dont complain about the score you truly DESERVE.

[MDTOB]

we study just as hard as you guys and we also have to struggle for our grades?

What the &*%$!!! Are you serious?


Then maybe you guys can all do without the extra 5% from the comp shelf, eh?

[ol' man]

Uh, from what I've heard today, they are. Admin is taking the comp points back from them.

[Nimmuk]

I really care less about the 5% that I received for scoring over 56% on my shelf. My grades are not in jepordy, at all. I really hope though, that if SMU is taking cayman student the points they earned, they should aslo take away ALL THE EXTRA CREDIT given to the Maine campus. They all had a chance to earn extra credit, and Cayman student didn't. to be fair, no extra credit should be given: Shelf (at cayman) and extra credit points (in Maine).

Thus, if the shelf points are going to be taken away, Cayman students should start a petition so that the extra credit given at the maine Campus should also be taken away.

Let it be fair.

[giggles]

Ditto. Couldn't have said it better myself!

[khamilton]

I really hope though, that if SMU is taking cayman student the points they earned, they should aslo take away ALL THE EXTRA CREDIT given to the Maine campus. They all had a chance to earn extra credit, and Cayman student didn't. to be fair, no extra credit should be given: Shelf (at cayman) and extra credit points (in Maine).

Thus, if the shelf points are going to be taken away, Cayman students should start a petition so that the extra credit given at the maine Campus should also be taken away.

Let it be fair.

I am not sure what kind of extra credit you are referring to but there was NO extra credit given in any of the classes I am taking. Points are not just handed out up here we don't even get point back when questions on exams are thrown out.

[Junito]

Please tell me what extra credit you are talking about? Last I heard Cayman too had an oral for pharm. None was given for Path 1 or 2, none given for Dr. Pt 4, and both campuses had an oral for pharm. Don't know about the 5th semester classes though.

[birthcontrol]

I understand your argument, but when the Admin in Maine constantly make the point that we are one school, and that we use some of the same exam questions (for pharm & path), then all other grading policies should be the same. I say don't give Cayman students extra points for the Comp if we are not going to get any here in Maine. Make it an even playing field. So I get an 80 in pharm in Maine, but if I would have an 90 (and honored the class) if I did the same effort in Cayman. Sorry but that is not fair, no matter how you put it.
Juni

Obviously somebody in the administration has been lying all along, so the question is why?

[XLNC]

Bottom Line.

1) Stay away from the Maine campus
2) The administration in Maine are all uneduacted and have an inferiority complex
3) California, New York, please review SMU again, im sure you guys will make us a laughing stock
4) Yes the campuses are different, they are two different schools, two different deans, two different countries.
5) Financial aid, lets get serious, why would SMU be approved for federal loans. With a curriculum that has no stability, students graduating from windham/cayman, both have different standards.

ALL YOU HEARD WAS XLNC

[AUCMD2006]

there's no crying in baseball! just like there shouldn't be extra credit in med school! wth is this extra credit garbage? if you don't know the material enough to pass a class the extra credit to pass an exam is a band aid covering a major wound. you guys at SMU also get do overs right? where if you fail a test they let you take it again? man no wonder all the transfers love smu...hehe