Kings County, NYC

[Dru]

Per previous posts in the Ross Clinical Sticky:

Gator: IM- Kings county-definitely not for everybody. very rigorous, not much internal support, attending want things done yesterday, and yes tongue-lashings did occur, but I felt overall it was a good first roatation and it prepared me to be autonomous. Yes, you do everything from phlebotomy to patient transport. Very humbling rotation.

Sukhtinder: for IM, long hours, good teaching, youre teh attending basically, lots of hands on work

[medtekboy]

how is king's county like for Psychiatry?

any tips on how to impress your residents or attendings

bless

peace

[PakiDoc]

Is Kings County ACGME approved???

tanx

[PakiDoc]

For Internal Medicine.

[Chianti]

Kings is ACGME for Psychiatry as well.

Psych there is excellent. Very good weekly lectures (the director there stated Rossies get a better educational experience than SUNY students) and intense ward work. If you like psych you'll like the rotation, otherwise you'll hate it. But overall its a very good rotation.

[newB]

I am putting this note out there for anyone who may be interested in doing a rotation at Kings County IM. All I can say is that I have never been in such a worst place in my entire life. The way things are done there for Internal Medicine for Ross is so riduculously bad, its sad. The only saving grace for this rotations are the physicians there, I have to say that they are all great, even 90% of the PA's. What is the worst thing for this place is the ancillary staff. Everyday or almost everyday, the students are meant to feel worthless and are told by the directors office from the mouth of her secretary that we are hated and pretty much incompetent, but if you ask the physicians, they say we are doing great. The stress put on the students, always being told that we ALL are going to fail, is really not necessary. If I had to do over again, I would go somewhere else, along with the majority of the student there. This is just a warning to those considering Kings County, BeWare of your choice. Remember, we need to learn medicine and whats behind Internal medicine for Step 2, not to be a scut monkey. Good luck on all your choices.

[Gator98MD]

I did this rotation back in the summer of 2003 and it sounds as is if nothing has changed. It is certainly demoralizing to be told you are worthless but at least you are getting a decent IM experience.Take it from somebody who is in an IM residency right now, the pathology you see there and the autonomy you have will hold you in good stead down the road. Consider the alternative, you could be at Wyckoff doing IM.:) Good luck and keep your head up!!

[iclaudicus]

The Internal Medicine Clerkship section of the Kings County H.C. says

"A pocket sized reference book such as the Washington Manual is recommended".

Looking up on Amazon I see many WM's. Which title exactly are they talking about ?

Thanks.


i, claudicus, i

[alpathmd]

"A pocket sized reference book such as the Washington Manual is recommended". Looking up on Amazon I see many WM's. Which title exactly are they talking about ?
The Washington Manual of Medical Therapeutics

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0781723590/qid=1143331083/sr=1-9/ref=sr_1_9/002-5715410-3427267?s=books&v=glance&n=283155

[medNoir]

Has anyone ever failed out of the IM rotation at Kings County ?

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Has anyone ever failed out of the IM rotation at Kings County ?

After doing 12-weeks of very hard work, I have heard a few students got a C grade.

I personally think that is harmful, especially if you want to enter a Medicine or FP residency.

[singer]

After doing 12-weeks of very hard work, I have heard a few students got a C grade.

I personally think that is harmful, especially if you want to enter a Medicine or FP residency.

Just out of curiousity how are clinicals graded. Is there a curve. Do most individuals get an "A" or a "B"?

Is it possible that the students who got "C" didn't deserve better?

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Just out of curiousity how are clinicals graded. Is there a curve. Do most individuals get an "A" or a "B"?

Is it possible that the students who got "C" didn't deserve better?

Usually attendings in most hospital are very reluctant to to give a C grade, as they know it can hurt the student later.

The student I know in question, did not deserve the C.

[Gator98MD]

When I did IM at Kings back in 2003, there were definitley people that would outright fail the rotation. Most of the people might have deserved it but alot of the people did not. Back then subjectivity was a large part of the grade and if an attending or PA didnt like you, you were screwed. I hope it is more objective now. The rotation itself was ok but very stressful.

[TheeeGod]

can anyone comment on the psych hours at king county?

[Diegodoc]

A friend of mine just finished psych there.... it's basically 9-5 mon-fri. Hope that helps.

[TheeeGod]

thanks for the info deigodoc.

i was wondering if it is feasible to commute evryday from NJ (bergen county) to Kings. is that a bad idea?

[Diegodoc]

I wouldn't reccomend it... but i guess it could be possible.

[singer]

thanks for the info deigodoc.

i was wondering if it is feasible to commute evryday from NJ (bergen county) to Kings. is that a bad idea?

Threegod:

How are you planning to commute. If you have a sturdy SUV and you leave real early in the morning it is probably feasable. If you leave and come home during rush hour it isn't great. If you do the rotation during the summer there is less traffic on the roads due to many people on vacation. Of course you have to watch out for September rains and flooding on the roads. I know of a female student that commuted from Bergen County where she lived at home for her two years of rotations. Many of the rotations were at Brookdale which is in a lousy neigborhood of Brownsville. I beleived she also did one at Kings. She survived the experience.

[TheeeGod]

thanks for the replies.

well i have a car. i dont mind coming home late but i dont want to get there late in the morning as that would look bad. singer, u would say the commute there takes an hour from bergen county?

[singer]

thanks for the replies.

well i have a car. i dont mind coming home late but i dont want to get there late in the morning as that would look bad. singer, u would say the commute there takes an hour from bergen county?

If you go on mapquest depending on where you live in Bergen county you should get the miles and time under the best conditions. If you live close to the GWB or one of the tunnels you will be better off. Of course living in Bergen county make sure you do psyc at Bergen Regional.

[TheeeGod]

If you go on mapquest depending on where you live in Bergen county you should get the miles and time under the best conditions. If you live close to the GWB or one of the tunnels you will be better off. Of course living in Bergen county make sure you do psyc at Bergen Regional.

i live 5-10 mins from GW bridge...psych at bergen regional is what i wanted but i got kings instead...i can still get bergen psych but i would have to take a month break between IM and PSYCH...i dono if its worth the wait...what do ya think?

[singer]

i live 5-10 mins from GW bridge...psych at bergen regional is what i wanted but i got kings instead...i can still get bergen psych but i would have to take a month break between IM and PSYCH...i dono if its worth the wait...what do ya think?

You can always fill in the month with a four week elective. Most students don't get their 48 weeks of core rotations without any breaks in between for electives.

[medNoir]

One of the attendings at the kings county internal medicine rotation made a couple references to the book "House Of God". A fiction based on the author's experiences as a pgy1 and patterned after Catch-22/MASH.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0385337388/sr=8-1/qid=1152040107/ref=pd_bbs_1/002-0434578-1620817?ie=UTF8

I didn't read it until after the rotation. I wish I had read it before. That attending used many of the phrases from the book and seems to have modeled his rounds on one of the heroes.

Those who will do IM at KCHC should also read Paauw as recommended by the manual. But personality issues is a major factor of this rotation and "House Of God" will give you a big clue about one of the big characters at kings county.

[TheeeGod]

Is there call for psych at Kings County?

[callemurcia1]

Anyone know if Kings County hospital is ACGME for Internal? I looked on FREIDA and don't see it but I thought it was approved through an association with SUNY. Any clarification is greatly appreciated.

[singer]

Anyone know if Kings County hospital is ACGME for Internal? I looked on FREIDA and don't see it but I thought it was approved through an association with SUNY. Any clarification is greatly appreciated. Its a major participating institution under SUNY downstate in Brooklyn. You can go on the ACGME site , go to accredited progams, go to internal medicine, click on SUNY Downstate and scroll down and you will Kings County.

Hope this helps

[lizziepark]

I am thinking about doing my internal medicine rotation at King's County. Do you think this is a good idea? Or should I take the alternative....internal medicine at Wyckoff Heights? I am a bit confused.

[newB]

if u want to learn and work your butt off like an intern, go to Kings. If you want to do nothing and touch nothing and take it easy for 12 weeks, go to Wycoff. My advice, if you want to have good clinical skills to be ready for your first year of residency, then DO NOT GO TO WYCOFF

[TheeeGod]

Can anyone comment more on psych at Kings? hours? teaching? call? mood of attendings/resdients? structure? whats expected? what to know? etc etc

[Sara123456]

Hi,

I have read both pros and cons about IM at Kings. Can someone who has experienced the rotation first hand let me know whether the teaching at Kings is soley procedural or is the foundation that is necessary for Step 2 taught at the hospital?

Thanks!

[Truthteller]

Not great.. poor quality of lectures generally, not a whole lot of patient contact. You spend a lot of the day sitting in a room chatting with one of the attendings.. and he will be offended if you try to study/read to get something useful done.. go figure. Also.. beware of getting assigned to the Kids unit - great if you want to go into child psych, but otherwise you see a very limited psych population and the hours are much much longer.

[Captainwada]

I am currently doing IM at Kings and it is NOT for the avg med student....they work us like dogs and verbally degrade us without fail...but you learn.
Lectures are rare, but when there is a topic, they do thoroughly prepare us for boards.
Think twice about this one...If you have determination and can put up with verbal abuse & 80+ hrs/wk....then this might be for you as you do LEARN how to manage pts on your own which will DEFINITELY come in handy come residency or future rotations...if not..go somewhere else cuz it is NO JOKE.

[thethom]

I have 2.5 weeks left at Kings Internal medicine core. I am starting to see the light at the end of the tunnel. I will prob write a report once I finish, but I will tell you all now, I couldn't have picked a better first rotation. If you wanna learn and are willing to put a lot into it, Kings is for you..

[gobonkers]

A student told me of a current legal issue with the attendings and the administration regarding the use of students instead of residents to run the ward?
Is it true that students work over 80 hours per week and can get fired or downgraded for being the "wrong type"?
GS

[MedChe]

had a friend that did kings...and said it best..."its a glorified nursing position":bored:

[DrVinsk]

You're on the money. Here's the real deal: Students who don't have any previous medical experience are still under the assumption that doctors do IV's, draw blood, place NG tubes, etc.., although it is necessary to learn these skills they are not generally done often by you, the attending. Most doctors can't hold a candle to a good nurse when it comes to IV's or phlebotomy. Unfortunately the Caribbean nurses give the nurses throughout the rest of the country a bad image as they tend to be quite lazy and down right rude. These poor students think that by running around getting lab reports, sticking IV's, drawing blood they are really acting like doctors....the hospital systems love to thrive on this misconception and work them to the bone. In all fairness, being that students are paying for their experience, they should be shadowing attendings and seeing exactly how decisions are made and following the course of treatment very closely while the nurses who are being well paid carry out the trivial duties of patient care. If attendings are sitting at the nurses station discussing patient care, it is absolutely absurd that the nurses sitting there eating their beef patties and scutting the students to run and get an xray or draw blood. This happens in many hospitals and it is just plain wrong. Most students don't say anything because they don't know any better and I really can't blame them. However it doesn't take long to learn the duties of a physician and what is important....drawing blood, doing IV's is for the nurses..maybe a week can be given to allow students to get a feel for the procedures....but then it needs to go back to the nurses. There are some terrible programs out there and they really need to be gutted and reformed. Basic Sciences can be taught anywhere, but rotations are a time where quality education needs to be a priority. Students being disrespected and abused is unacceptable. I hope more people will start to stand up for themselves and abolish this childish fraternity/hazing attitude that exists now. I apologize in advance to Jim and MitchDC....I know your experiences were fantastic and you never complained about making a bed or emptying bed pans. I admire that you were able to get all your cores done back to back and electives at Albert Einstein and Columbia. Cogratulations on your DERM match at Beverly Hills by the way........Now for the rest of you, good luck and remember...you deserve better.

[Cuando2]

I am currently doing IM at Kings and it is NOT for the avg med student....they work us like dogs and verbally degrade us without fail...but you learn.
Lectures are rare, but when there is a topic, they do thoroughly prepare us for boards.
Think twice about this one...If you have determination and can put up with verbal abuse & 80+ hrs/wk....then this might be for you as you do LEARN how to manage pts on your own which will DEFINITELY come in handy come residency or future rotations...if not..go somewhere else cuz it is NO JOKE.

From what I've gathered about Kings...its the place which will teach you how to do blood draws, its the place which will teach you how to transport patients from here to there, its the place which will teach you how to become calloused to verbal degredation. These are all the things nurses will have to deal with...in the end, this equates to things that have nothing to add to your career.

One thing that you WILL require when you are a resident is knowing your material and being able to survive pimping on the wards...since the quoted poster says there are scant lectures, I highly doubt this rotation will help you in this important aspect...which seems to make Kings somewhat useless aside from preparing you to be a nurse.

There are several other IM rotations to choose from with Ross which are far better than Kings. Rotations (and residency programs, for that matter) which are more "scutty" are less educational. "Scuttiness" and educationally rich are indirectly related to each other. More scut=less education. Less scut=more education.

[Cuando2]

You're on the money. Here's the real deal: Students who don't have any previous medical experience are still under the assumption that doctors do IV's, draw blood, place NG tubes, etc.., although it is necessary to learn these skills they are not generally done often by you, the attending. Most doctors can't hold a candle to a good nurse when it comes to IV's or phlebotomy. Unfortunately the Caribbean nurses give the nurses throughout the rest of the country a bad image as they tend to be quite lazy and down right rude. These poor students think that by running around getting lab reports, sticking IV's, drawing blood they are really acting like doctors....the hospital systems love to thrive on this misconception and work them to the bone. In all fairness, being that students are paying for their experience, they should be shadowing attendings and seeing exactly how decisions are made and following the course of treatment very closely while the nurses who are being well paid carry out the trivial duties of patient care. If attendings are sitting at the nurses station discussing patient care, it is absolutely absurd that the nurses sitting there eating their beef patties and scutting the students to run and get an xray or draw blood. This happens in many hospitals and it is just plain wrong. Most students don't say anything because they don't know any better and I really can't blame them. However it doesn't take long to learn the duties of a physician and what is important....drawing blood, doing IV's is for the nurses..maybe a week can be given to allow students to get a feel for the procedures....but then it needs to go back to the nurses. There are some terrible programs out there and they really need to be gutted and reformed. Basic Sciences can be taught anywhere, but rotations are a time where quality education needs to be a priority. Students being disrespected and abused is unacceptable. I hope more people will start to stand up for themselves and abolish this childish fraternity/hazing attitude that exists now. I apologize in advance to Jim and MitchDC....I know your experiences were fantastic and you never complained about making a bed or emptying bed pans. I admire that you were able to get all your cores done back to back and electives at Albert Einstein and Columbia. Cogratulations on your DERM match at Beverly Hills by the way........Now for the rest of you, good luck and remember...you deserve better.

I read this post after formulating my own post, and come to agree with most of what this poster says regarding the nurses issue and learning menial tasks that do nothing for a med student. And I thought *** matched into *** at a community program due to ***? I also believe *** (who is far more experienced) had matched a few years ago at a great program and is doing quite well in practice...but I am unsure of his specialty...

[DrVinsk]

Thanks Cuando,

I don't really know the current position of either MDC or Jim. I definitely hold more weight to what Jim says over MDC....I just poked a little fun at him/her because of previous Ross defense that was a little overboard. I'm curious to see what students will say when they defend programs such as King's County. There will be some ballyhooing student who will say, 'It builds character' or 'prepares you for residency'..blah, blah. I would like to find these students 10 years later and ask them as attendings how many IV's, blood draws and NG tubes they have done..or for that matter...even knowing where the lab is in the hospital! Oh well...each one of them will see the light and hopefully treat any students they come across with a little more dignity than they received.

[Chianti]

This is why I don't understand why people bash Wyckoff IM.

When I did it there, my group's attending, Dr. K. (head of allergy and immunology at Wyckoff) would have us present a case each after rounds. And then we would talk about that particular disorder and its treatment and management. So we basically had 2 hours of lecture with an amazing ATTENDING every day besides noon conference. Then in the afternoon I would follow the resident for a few hours. I would be home by 6 PM and would have all evening to study. Guess what, I learned IM really, really well. Sure, I didn't do any IVs, blood draws, or ABGS- but I learned those well when I did Ob-Gyn at Queens and SICU at Lutheran.

[Cuando2]

This is why I don't understand why people bash Wyckoff IM.

I didn't know Wyckoff IM was bashed repeatedly? I thought it was Wyckoff Surgery and Kings IM that were repeatedly bashed.

[Captainwada]

From what I've gathered about Kings...its the place which will teach you how to do blood draws, its the place which will teach you how to transport patients from here to there, its the place which will teach you how to become calloused to verbal degredation. These are all the things nurses will have to deal with...in the end, this equates to things that have nothing to add to your career.

One thing that you WILL require when you are a resident is knowing your material and being able to survive pimping on the wards...since the quoted poster says there are scant lectures, I highly doubt this rotation will help you in this important aspect...which seems to make Kings somewhat useless aside from preparing you to be a nurse.

There are several other IM rotations to choose from with Ross which are far better than Kings. Rotations (and residency programs, for that matter) which are more "scutty" are less educational. "Scuttiness" and educationally rich are indirectly related to each other. More scut=less education. Less scut=more education.

by lectures, I was referring to boring monotonous lectures...instead we have more of pimping sessions...during rounds...

Oh...dun worry bout us...we get pimped plenty..to the point that we are in fear of being yelled at if we don't konw the answer...This is the verbal abuse I'm talking about....they yell at us when we don't know answers to why a pt is gettign this..or the side effects of their meds, or what are the complications of their illness..
In rounds we get pimped, and lecture we get pimped, and if your just caught walking in the wrong place....well you know.
The only scut we do is IV, ABGs, blood draws. There is NO transporting pts, cleaning beds, or wahtever else nurses do. And trust me..when your an intern.. you'll be wishing you learned how to do this stuff....don't come running to me for help...ahahah
More than half the students here scored higher than the US avg..on step 1...actually i know of 3 students RIGHT NOW who have above 230s..and thetom who is at 260...
the attendings keep us on our toes with pimping sessions day in and day out...so don't think this is a wycoff slackin rotation...or a scutted out rotation...but more of a pre-intern rotation

[LovinMiami]

you know its about time people started standing up for kings county... it definitely is not a glorified nurses training program. it takes hard work to get through, you learn both book knowledge (student lectures 4 days a week with attending giving comments and pimping throughout rounds everyday) and APPLICATION of that knowledge to real patients that you are taking care of. Yes you have to do scut work and the hours are long (80+ weeks), but you also MANAGE the patients, which from what i understand is exactly what you will be doing as a resident. I know that you do get yelled at, berated and sometimes fear even entering the conference room for the 52 side rounds...;) but come on you leave the county better then you came in. Full PEs, patient admit and discharges, medications, multitasking between consults, working the system to get your patients in line for imaging studies, scrubbing in on procedures that your patient undergoes... this is what the county is all about. you put up with the bad in order to get access to the good. The feeling of your input directly having effect on patient care as an MSIII is unbelievable.

if you dont want to go to Kings you dont have to but I do recommend people go there for internal medicine. its not easy, but many people have gotten through so there is no reason why you cant. you will be surprised by how you feel when you are done and how the confidence you built up in yourself and the knowledge you learnt seeps out into other aspects of your life.

One thing I can say negative about some students who complete the rotation is the so called Kings complex where people go on to other hospitals and try to act like after the 12 weeks they can tell other students what to do and know all there is to know about medicine. I have seen this in some students and think that it is ridiculous for anyone to behave in this manner. You go through Kings and learn medicine but do not think for a second you are better or smarter then anyone else who has had the rotation elsewhere.

[thethom]

You're on the money. Here's the real deal: Students who don't have any previous medical experience are still under the assumption that doctors do IV's, draw blood, place NG tubes, etc.., although it is necessary to learn these skills they are not generally done often by you, the attending. Most doctors can't hold a candle to a good nurse when it comes to IV's or phlebotomy. Unfortunately the Caribbean nurses give the nurses throughout the rest of the country a bad image as they tend to be quite lazy and down right rude. These poor students think that by running around getting lab reports, sticking IV's, drawing blood they are really acting like doctors....the hospital systems love to thrive on this misconception and work them to the bone. In all fairness, being that students are paying for their experience, they should be shadowing attendings and seeing exactly how decisions are made and following the course of treatment very closely while the nurses who are being well paid carry out the trivial duties of patient care. If attendings are sitting at the nurses station discussing patient care, it is absolutely absurd that the nurses sitting there eating their beef patties and scutting the students to run and get an xray or draw blood. This happens in many hospitals and it is just plain wrong. Most students don't say anything because they don't know any better and I really can't blame them. However it doesn't take long to learn the duties of a physician and what is important....drawing blood, doing IV's is for the nurses..maybe a week can be given to allow students to get a feel for the procedures....but then it needs to go back to the nurses. There are some terrible programs out there and they really need to be gutted and reformed. Basic Sciences can be taught anywhere, but rotations are a time where quality education needs to be a priority. Students being disrespected and abused is unacceptable. I hope more people will start to stand up for themselves and abolish this childish fraternity/hazing attitude that exists now. I apologize in advance to Jim and MitchDC....I know your experiences were fantastic and you never complained about making a bed or emptying bed pans. I admire that you were able to get all your cores done back to back and electives at Albert Einstein and Columbia. Cogratulations on your DERM match at Beverly Hills by the way........Now for the rest of you, good luck and remember...you deserve better.


LOL have you even rotated at Kings? If you did then you would know better than to say any med student has had to clean a bedpan or make a bed. If you did rotate here, and had to clean a bedpan then man, the nurses had you on one helluva short leash. In actuality, we do partake in direct patient care planning WITH the attendings. In fact, the information we present to them from our histories, physicals, and day to day interactions and interpretations of lab tests, imaging studies, and direct discussion with consults is VITAL to how they decide to manage the patient. As one gains experience in the rotation, it is expected that you as a med student will formulate your assesments and plans, run them by the attending, and the attending will add some things, subtract others, but for the most part, they will agree with your plan. I don't think nurses do that. If a patient spikes a fever, no I don't believe it is the nurse's idea to run blood cultures, urinalysis, and urine cultures, and order a chest X-ray, CBC, and CMP...as a medical student this is something that we decide to do, and for good reason, as the fever workup is designed to cover several of the 6 W's of fever....so is this a nursing duty, i dont think so. Do the nurses call consults when necessary? Do nurses work directly with the consults to formulate a plan of care? Just saying, blood draws, ABGs, and IV's are but a small part of the king's county experience. You must learn to WORK UP a patient, work with consults, and learn what lab tests are necessary and when they are appropriate. As for learning diseases and treatments, you should already have a basic understanding of these from your step 1, and thus it is more important to get more acquainted with how these diagnoses and treatments are carried out in an inpatient setting. Direct pressure from the attendings can be stressful, however tongue lashings are not without reason, as it is imperative that the information presented to the attendings is ACCURATE and complete, because it will have a direct impact on the LIFE of your patient. And how many of you in other IM rotations can say that you actaully RAN codes and/or participated in them?

Our daily progress notes are put IN the patient's chart, and can serve as legal documents, so it is imperative that they be accurate, and discussed/countersigned by an attending. The information in them is NOT something a student who fulfils only nursing duties would be aware of...

...please be sure of things before you post them on valueMD vinsk or anyone else who posts inaccurate information on valuemd, as new students read this information and take it seriously. I never ever thought I would be defending kings county IM, but now that I have one more day and night left in this rotation, I can honestly look back and say it was worth the hard work. I challenge anyone who thinks they got more experience in patient care as a "graduate" of kings IM...

[DrVinsk]

Funny how so many people come crying and whining about the program there but when someone calls you on it..........it becomes the best program around. Unfortunately, I have not been impressed with students coming out of Kings County....they didn't have any more development in patient care than those who had done slacker rotations. If you don't think IV's are a nurses job then you are very naive. Trust me, I've been doing IV's and all those other procedures you seem to think are hi-tech for many,many years...I won't be coming to you for any help but I'll be more than happy to make you do them since you feel so advanced in doing so. Remember, you are there to learn how to be Physician, not an intern. Being an intern is not your final goal. When I hear an entire group of students who came from Kings County say nothing good about the program, read numerous posts about its abuse, I can't place too much weight on some gunner student who has no experience at all. I admire your attitude, but just as you didn't appreciate my assumptions on Kings County you shouldn't make assumptions on my background. I am way ahead of you young'un. I am not the one you need to be preaching to. Trust me when I tell you I did another rotation with 8 students all from the same rotation at Kings County and not ONE of them had the comments that you have regarding the rotation. That certainly gives me some justification to stand up for students who feel the rotation was horrible and, just because you're a real Florence Nightingale doesn't mean you have to be snyde towards anyone who attempts to address a matter with obvious merit. I'm glad you fell in love with Kings County, but either tell your buddies to stop dialing whine-1-1, or realize you're an exception to the rule.

These comments are soley for entertainment purposes and do not reflect the views of the moderators or subscibers. Any resemblance to real life persons or events is purely coincidental and may not be held for consequences. Any offensive remarks are unintentional and should be held without ill regard. Thank you.

[garymoesr]

Anybody do other rotations here?

[onmyway]

The whole King's County thing has become an urban legend. It is a great experience for some but an awful one for others. Sounds fairly typical of many sites. I do get a little sick of hearing how it is the "best" place to do IM. Talk to the lucky few who did it at St. Mary's in CT or at Harbor or PG Hospital in Maryland...now that's learning mixed with respect and camaraderie. Actually there is a guy doing electives at the latter who did his IM at King's and whines all the time how he wishes he had done it at PGH.

[DrVinsk]

Beautiful onmyway, beautiful. Enough said......that ends that discussion.

[thethom]

Funny how so many people come crying and whining about the program there but when someone calls you on it..........it becomes the best program around. Unfortunately, I have not been impressed with students coming out of Kings County....they didn't have any more development in patient care than those who had done slacker rotations. If you don't think IV's are a nurses job then you are very naive. Trust me, I've been doing IV's and all those other procedures you seem to think are hi-tech for many,many years...I won't be coming to you for any help but I'll be more than happy to make you do them since you feel so advanced in doing so. Remember, you are there to learn how to be Physician, not an intern. Being an intern is not your final goal. When I hear an entire group of students who came from Kings County say nothing good about the program, read numerous posts about its abuse, I can't place too much weight on some gunner student who has no experience at all. I admire your attitude, but just as you didn't appreciate my assumptions on Kings County you shouldn't make assumptions on my background. I am way ahead of you young'un. I am not the one you need to be preaching to. Trust me when I tell you I did another rotation with 8 students all from the same rotation at Kings County and not ONE of them had the comments that you have regarding the rotation. That certainly gives me some justification to stand up for students who feel the rotation was horrible and, just because you're a real Florence Nightingale doesn't mean you have to be snyde towards anyone who attempts to address a matter with obvious merit. I'm glad you fell in love with Kings County, but either tell your buddies to stop dialing whine-1-1, or realize you're an exception to the rule.

These comments are soley for entertainment purposes and do not reflect the views of the moderators or subscibers. Any resemblance to real life persons or events is purely coincidental and may not be held for consequences. Any offensive remarks are unintentional and should be held without ill regard. Thank you.


Please show me one occasion where I complained about King's County, said that IV's were "high tech", or even hinted that doing IVs and bloodwork were a significant benefit of the rotation. I do believe I said that it is "but a small part" of the rotation. Oh and I have made no assumptions on your background, I simply asked had you rotated there, and then added a modifier to address if you had... For all I know you could be the chief of surgery at Mass. General Hosp... I have spoken with several "graduates" of the kings rotation, with experience in other rotations, and all so far have told me how much less stimulating their other rotations have been, and how much less responsibility was given to students. And yes an entire "class" has had this opinion. But yeah, what onmyway says is true...you either love it or hate it, and one cannot bear judgement on someone for their opinion, as we are all entitled to it.


PS: Florence Nightingale? LOL

[thethom]

Oh, and right now we should all be preparing to be the BEST intern we can, and once we are interns, we should try to be the best physician we can. Internship year, and the first impression you make during it, is of utmost importance, expecially in some of the pyramidal surgical residencies...

[Chianti]

Pyramidical surgical residencies simply do not exist any more. Sure they might in some obscure, ghetto inner-city hospital IMG sweatshop, but solid programs ditched the pyramidical model a long time ago.

The problem with King's is that there no time to study for Step 2. Placing IV's and running codes is worthless if you don't pass Step 2.......

[thethom]

What about learning how to manage a patient, treatment strategies, and diagnostic tests, since that is 99% of what we did at Kings, something tells me that WILL help with the step 2. All you people say the same thing, "doing IV's wont help blah blah blah" but are you all blind to how many times former kings students have said that "IVs" and other blood work are but a 10 minute part of the day??? Geeze you people are like broken records...If you want to make a claim that the majority of the rotation is not helpful on step 2, then speak about what we DID most of the time, get off the whole subject of a 5 minute IV.... And trust me, I won't have a problem just passing the step 2...I'm sorry that the step 2 is/was such a big deal to you...

Also would you like to validate your claim that pyramidal residencies exist ONLY in "ghetto inner city hospital IMG sweatshops?"

[onmyway]

Well, it's definitely unfair for anyone to demean your experience there. I for one am happy to know that someone benefited from it. On the other hand, there are many KC veterans who have a completely different take on the place, even those who eventually rocked step 2. One of my residents was reading this thread over my shoulder and just laughed..she said "it doesn't matter anyway...you will all be clueless come July of your intern year."

[Chianti]

Look, I'm glad you had a great experience at Kings.

While I was doing IM at Wyckoff, I had 6 friends at King's. Two like it, while the other 4 ABSOLUTELY hated it. One thing is for sure, they were all envious of the time I had to study for Step 2, which I did fine on.

Pyramidal surgical residencies are a non-existant thing at good programs. Show me a good program that follows the "pyramidal" model- it doesn't exist. The only programs that I can imagine following such a model are inner-city, sweatshop-type ghetto hospitals in the Bronx or Brooklyn.

Why the anger man? I think you would've let the anger go once you left St. Chris :toast:

[pure_jkz]

I wish you guys at King's could experience an IM rotation elsewhere, so you could see what an IM rotation SHOULD be like, and notice that you CAN learn medicine, patient management, case presentation, and patient write-ups without working 80+ hours a week, and without being treated like a b*tch and being yelled at, or called names...etc.

But hey if you all enjoyed it and actually convinced yourselves that you got a superior education there, then that's all that matters.

[Cuando2]

I'm sorry that the step 2 is/was such a big deal to you...


Oh, of course, step2 is NO big deal at all. Actually, I'm sure the board agrees with you too...in fact, they read your post and are considering eliminating it since it means nothing.

[thethom]

LOL, okok my bad honey, I take it back...

[discombobulase]

Survivors from a fraternity hazing or military boot camp turn around and visceraly defend those systems. They convinced themselves it was worth it somehow, because to admit all that suffering was pointless would lead to decompensation.

But in each Kings IM group, there were a few who excelled. Their medical knowledge and/or toughness made them immune to the stressors.

Therefore, Kings County IM should screen for students like some of the competitive rotations. A minimum GPA or a gung-ho personal essay should be required, plus a signed waiver where the student understands there is an attending there who channels the worst parts of Don Imus, Howard Stern and Rush Limbaugh.

[Cuando2]

Survivors from a fraternity hazing or military boot camp turn around and visceraly defend those systems. They convinced themselves it was worth it somehow, because to admit all that suffering was pointless would lead to decompensation.

But in each Kings IM group, there were a few who excelled. Their medical knowledge and/or toughness made them immune to the stressors.

Therefore, Kings County IM should screen for students like some of the competitive rotations. A minimum GPA or a gung-ho personal essay should be required, plus a signed waiver where the student understands there is an attending there who channels the worst parts of Don Imus, Howard Stern and Rush Limbaugh.

I would hate to be the kid of one of those attendings...

[gobonkers]

Well, guys, after the stuff I've read, there's no way I am going to Kings. I want to learn and stay sane, I dont want to be yelled at for no reason and I don't want to go to a boot camp.
Good day and good luck!

[thethom]

That sounds like the words of a particular frenchman I just finished rotating at Kings County with...! LOL

[gobonkers]

No frenchman down under!

[ssg1980]

Hi,

Does anyone know what books we need for Psych at King's?

[jakebrake54]

Hi,

Does anyone know what books we need for Psych at King's?


The main book that is used there is Internal Medicine Clerkship Guide by Douglas S. Paauw et al. It will be referred to at Kings as just Paauw(Pow). Also a pharmacopoeia is good to have as well. One of the attendings there has a "manual" and many of the questions during his rounds come from it, and you will be given that at orientation, so make sure you read it. Good luck and have fun. From personal experience, it will be hard and suck at times, but will be worth it.

[ssg1980]

The main book that is used there is Internal Medicine Clerkship Guide by Douglas S. Paauw et al.

Is this for Psychiatry or Internal Medicine? I was wondering what book they use for the Psychiatry rotation at Kings. But thank you very much for your reply.

[jakebrake54]

That was for IM. Sorry for the misunderstanding and delay in response.

[TheeeGod]

You don't need a book for the psych rotation.

[BrokenEngRish]

can anyone who did a recent psych rotation at Kings comment on how it was?

[onthebeach]

According to the "Ross Loses NYC" thread, it looks like Ross will be losing this hospital for clinical rotations.

[shutterbugmd]

i just got assigned a Psych rotation there! when does this take effect??

[wowtoo]

This place is full of Bipolar Secretorys, Attendings, and Nurses. The PA staff is generally good.

During my rotation at Kings I thought I was learning - yeah on how to put IV lines draw blood cart patients to x-ray-ct-us, oh yes all throughout the process I thought I was learning---scut work.

During morning rounds you had options based on who the attending was Dr R likes sit ins, Dr V/V likes walking, and the others were a mix based on their daily events. The doctors were competent, but as students we did not learn why we were doing something although we were lead to believe by our attendings that we were doing something great. Yes in the end I learned how to put IV lines quick, draw blood amazingly fast, and that’s were it ended.

There are no lectures, sit in rounds with Dr R (one of the meanest Bipolar characters you would ever see in your life!) would be filled with sexual and heavily profanity laid comments about almost every student. You will learn about 20 acronyms (egg. most causes of fever in Hosp pts, types of Sickle cell crisis) over and over again.

You will really learn while doing an elective rotation such as nephro, heme/onc then you will see the huge mistakes you made at kings county leading to patient mortality and morbidity.

Trust me...and I saying this while working as a resident at a pretty decent hospital in NY/NJ area, as a medical student you should read-be lectured-taught good PE skills and not walked over, insulted and humiliated by a fat buffoon like Dr R.

my two cent advice ...when you hear kings county...walk away..far...dont turn back...find a place where there are good teachers and time off to read.

blood draw-procedures-you will get plenty of time in surgical-anestheiology rotations-..oh heck go do phlebotomy rounds...if you wanna be an expert...for gods sake you now belong to an elite group of professionals! You do not have to go back to the days when you were no bodys!!!
I have medical students but I never (neither does my program) humiliate them and degrade them the way Dr R and his Bipolar clan did at Kings. do not go there...I did not heed this advice...and I went thinking I wanted to go hardcore and learn...

[shutterbugmd]

thank you for your comments..

[shutterbugmd]

thank you for your comments..

[thethom]

wowtoo obviously didn't make the best of his/her opportunities at kings. sure u do some scut, but the vast majority of the rotation involves learning to become autonomous in the entire care of the patient. Its a waste of your time and the patient's if you are rolling them around across the hospital to radiology when you could have ordered someone from escort service to do it for you (their job). Some cases are obviously warranted, like moving a patient that has taken a turn for the worse from Medicine to the ICU, because they can and DO code on the way there. Do you want a nurse or someone from escort doing the resuscitation, or a doctor (you). We all have ACLS and so we all should know what to do. if the attendings see you are intelligent and CONFIDENT, they won't berate you, and during rounds, you will present your case, say what you want to do, and they will agree with you. Fear is a great motivator for learning. I agree that one of the attendings can be quite intimidating, but he's trying to teach you something, and if you talk to him, and try to appreciate the reason he says things, and respect the fact that this comes from years of experience, then you will end up on his good side. Oh, and that secretary has been BOOOOOOTEDDDDD!!!! LOL to the joy of many....The nurses at every hospital will be temperamental, especially Kings.

[thethom]

Either way, its a shame this rotation went to SGU. I hope that somehow Ross students still get to do IM core there...

Psych at Kings was nothing special. Do it wherever you want...

[shutterbugmd]

the rotation went to SGU, but how come they've schedule me (and many others) to start in december... I have heard the horror stories about showing up to a hospital and... oops your not on the list. my fear is that NONE of us is going to be on the list. Any idea when this deal takes effect?

[thethom]

Call Ross tomorrow and find out for sure. And don't leave a message, they never call back, stay on the line until you get someone...

[Doct51]

I did my medicine at Kings County and it's definitely not worth it. If Ross scheduled you, get out asap. Knowing what I know now, I never would have went there. Why rotate at a place where you're on a service that doesn't have Residents if your interested in IM?? You have no opportunity to be noticed by a director of the service who is in charge of a residency program or even do a SubI with the hope that you'll have a job there come Match season. And doing research on a rotation and getting your name published definitely adds to your resume which will not happen at Kings County. I am so happy that floor is going down, St. George's will not be rotating on that service, they will be on the three other medicine floors with residents rotating with the Downstate students. The stories you read about on these threads are true and are not fabricated. Yes you get the few who love it and swear by it, but you get same experience there as you would if you did a 4 week ER rotation or a Critical Care elective. Do Medicine at a place that has residents where you can be noticed by attendings who will offer you a job.

[Doct51]

The effect took place July 27, 2007. It's on St. George's website, the loop hole is that if rotations were scheduled before this date you can do rotate there. Also, that medicine rotation, the floor you work on is technically not part of the hospital, i.e. is a service within the hospital. For example, if you have a patient with TB come in that was admitted to your service, you have to call up Medicine and have the patient transferred and do the transfer orders.

[summerwind]

the rotation went to SGU, but how come they've schedule me (and many others) to start in december... I have heard the horror stories about showing up to a hospital and... oops your not on the list. my fear is that NONE of us is going to be on the list. Any idea when this deal takes effect?

I believe the deal will take effect when SGU decides to exercise its right to the clinical slots. The larger SGU classes will be entering the clinical stage of their education within the next 2 years. I would hope that Ross students would be able to continue to place students at Kings until these larger SGU classes hit clinicals.

[thethom]

The effect took place July 27, 2007. It's on St. George's website, the loop hole is that if rotations were scheduled before this date you can do rotate there. Also, that medicine rotation, the floor you work on is technically not part of the hospital, i.e. is a service within the hospital. For example, if you have a patient with TB come in that was admitted to your service, you have to call up Medicine and have the patient transferred and do the transfer orders.


You always have to do a transfer note on a patient, regardless of what service they are transferring from or being transferred to... And in essence, not having residents means what...that YOUR responsibility becomes that of the resident and that you work even more directly with attendings who can write good LORs after you complete a core or sub-I. Too much for some medical students..

[Doct51]

It's not that its too much, it's just not worth the time and effort on that service. I just think that it's important for students who are getting asigned there to know the real deal about that floor. I did well on that rotation as I did all of them and am applying to IM as a back up for residency this september and I did well there and received LOR's from both attendings. But, the reality of the situation is, if you're really looking to get into a competitive IM program go where there are residents and work your *** off with them. If residents see your initiative they teach you more and give you more power, especially when your around attendings. If you decide to take a back seat when your rotating through a program that has residents, then shame on you. If you want to find yourself and don't have the confidence in presenting patients, do your IM at Kings.

[HHN786]

anyone doing Pscyhiatry core from 11/19/07- 12/28/07 at kings county would like to switch with me im scheduled for psychiatry at St. John's Epos. at far rockaway from 11/19/07 to 12/28/07..PM me if interested, thanks.

[thethom]

On my ross, under kings county information it says that ross students can do emergency elective there. Does anyone know if this is still true, or its old?

[jakebrake54]

On my ross, under kings county information it says that ross students can do emergency elective there. Does anyone know if this is still true, or its old?


I think that might be old. Not positive though.

[thethom]

It is old, I called Kings yesterday, they no longer take Ross students for electives.... ****ers....

[TheeeGod]

Tom - who did you speak to? Is S.P. still there? She told me before that it was possible and now I can't get a hold of her.

[cavalletti]

Tom - who did you speak to? Is S.P. still there? She told me before that it was possible and now I can't get a hold of her.

Maybe that was before SGU's deal with King's.

[thethom]

LOL S.P. has been FIRED, and its the most hillarious of stories as to why! LOL PM me if ya just neeed to know...

And I spoke to the person in charge of ED medical student rotations, not someone on A5. They told me "No carib students..." >:-O

[Doct51]

Know what the messed up part about the whole ER situation at Kings. The 2 guys in charge for residency are both FMG's. I met the assistant to the program director, I forgot his name but he told me to not even bother applying even with my high board scores because they don't take any FMG's for ER residency. He said they used too but Downstate put a stop to it. Kinda messed up, it's like they forgot where they came from. I hate people like that. I have more respect for American grads who become program directors in competitive fields and take fmg's. Downstate does take fmg's for residency in Medicine though and I'm sure in other fields as well.

[TheeeGod]

Anyone know who to contact to set up an elective an King's now that S.P. is gone? I have the form, etc. filled out and just need a live person. Anyone got a number? place? name? etc. thanks!

[thethom]

LOL that form was made by S.P., and just for S.P.

[medboundman]

what are the hours for the IM and psych rotations cause I just got assigned to them...would it be worth it to live in manhattan and go to kings or should i find something in brooklyn?

[shutterbugmd]

you should just get a room IN the hospital. from what I've heard from friends that did IM there.. the hours are crazy... 5.30am till..........

Psych is pretty good though..

[thethom]

Haha... I did medicine at Kings. In the beginning you'll take a lot longer to get stuff done, so 5:30 to 7 was not uncommon, with overnight call q4d. I've been there till 11 pm some days. There are rooms in the T-building of the hospital complex, but theyre not so great, get an apt in the area, nearby, along the 2 or 5 train line (if you take the subway) would be best because you'll be getting there earrrlyyyyyyy. Study your butt off NOW, and then be prepared to learn 10X as much while you're there. No residents, so YOU do EVERYTHING a resident would do. I have been rotating for a year since Kings, and no other rotation has ever come CLOSE to the autonomy and responsibility you will have at Kings. Best of luck and holla if you have any questions.

PS Be prepared to lose about 10 pounds and not have time to talk to friends and family in the beginning LOL...

[RIRossStudent]

I believe that King's County IM is a very good rotation, however, I do not believe that it is suitable for 3rd year medical students. I think that during your third year you should have responsibility for a few patients (not all 10 of them) and the focus should be learning clinical knowlege. I believe that is why there is a 4th year of medical school so that you can do rotations that assume my responsibility and clinical autonomy, but I do not believe that this is very useful during your third year.

[thethom]

One thing that I believe is important is that unless pushed, people in general will assume mediocrity. Its like boot camp. Those that made it through the rotation DID learn to handle 10 patients with nearly a resident's autonomy (Sometimes 13+ on weekend calls out of ~40 in the unit at any given time). Kings "graduates" are then stars in their subsequent rotations. Is there a better way to start clinicals, I don't think so...I am certainly glad that this was my first rotation.

[jakebrake54]

One thing that I believe is important is that unless pushed, people in general will assume mediocrity. Its like boot camp. Those that made it through the rotation DID learn to handle 10 patients with nearly a resident's autonomy (Sometimes 13+ on weekend calls out of ~40 in the unit at any given time). Kings "graduates" are then stars in their subsequent rotations. Is there a better way to start clinicals, I don't think so...I am certainly glad that this was my first rotation.


I agree with thethom. We did Kings at the same time, and while at times it feels like you are rotating in hell, no rotation in the past year has come close to the autonomy and learning that went on at Kings. Every rotation, with the exception of surgery has been pretty boring, because the attendings at other rotations don't give you the trust nor the responsibility that you will have at Kings. It gets dogged by a lot of people because the malignant environment, but if you go, work hard, study, and finish all of your work then you are fine. You will also feel amazing when you finish. If you are afraid to put in a lot of time and effort then this isn't for you. As thethom said, be ready to not eat for entire shifts and you will feel like you are cut off from the rest of the world as you are always there. I lived at the T building and although the living conditions weren't great, it was sufficient for the rotation and it was only like $235 a month. My days would consist of waking up at 530, getting on the floor by 6, and going home usually between 5 and 7. When you get home, you pass out and do it all over the next day.

[shutterbugmd]

did you guys think that the super stress situations at king are actually good for learning?? how do you learn? from attendings? other ross students??

[baljits]

I am starting @ Kings in april... Tom or jakebrakes...can you please offer some advice on places to stay around the area. Sorry I can't PM...post count is too low... thank u...

[jakebrake54]

I am starting @ Kings in april... Tom or jakebrakes...can you please offer some advice on places to stay around the area. Sorry I can't PM...post count is too low... thank u...


I lived in the T building. At $235 a month, its not too bad, but the living conditions aren't the best. It is a small dorm room size, twin bed, desk, and dresser. No wifi or cable, but you do get local channels if you have a tv. Rooms have a sink and its community showers(separate stalls). I would usually get home late so it didn't really matter because I was so tired I would jsut pass out. If you are looking for something cheap, short term, and just to get through the rotation then do it. I knwo other people lived in Bay Ridge, Bensonhurst, coney island, and manhattan. a few others lived in queens, but i think it is a long commute by train.

The best thing about T is how close it is. I usually got there at 6 am, but woke up one day at 630 and was on the FLOOR at 640, so that is kind of convenient. But if you do decide to live there, don't go in with huge expectations because its not much.

[Skydiver]

Just got scheduled for IM at Kings in about 2 weeks. This is going to be my first rotation so I have no idea what to expect.
I would really appreciate some info

What is a typical day like?
What is the call schedule?
I read there are no residents so how are the teams structured? How is the rotation structured?
Any tests, ppts, presentations?
Who grades you?
Should I do anything to prepare for this rotation?

Where do you go the first day and what time?

Thanks

[Skydiver]

I lived in the T building. .
Where/what is the T building?
Any other suggestions

[Skydiver]

Sorry, duplicate

[thethom]

Search back a few pages skydiver, you will see all the information you need. It was my first rotation too a long time ago, you'll make it...

[tno77]

Just got scheduled for IM at Kings in about 2 weeks. This is going to be my first rotation so I have no idea what to expect.
I would really appreciate some info

What is a typical day like?

530am: arrive on the floor, prepare your patients for rounds
900am: round on the entire floor with the attendings
300pm: lecture by students
600pm: write your notes
700pm: leave unless you are on-call


What is the call schedule?
q4 or q5, it might be more often because there are less and less students at kings now, your group might be the last Ross group there so you might be screwed with q3 or something


I read there are no residents so how are the teams structured? How is the rotation structured?
Any tests, ppts, presentations?
No residents, you are the resident. Teams are structured by "entrance class" so the group that entered in june is your group, the interns, the group that came in may are 2nd years, and the group that came in april are seniors. You have to do 2 presentations, no tests


Who grades you?
The attendings. No one else, despite the rumors


Should I do anything to prepare for this rotation?
sleep plenty right now and take your vitamins. you wont have time to do either once the rotation starts

[thethom]

Pretty good description of Kings... :-P

[jjmalu]

It is old, I called Kings yesterday, they no longer take Ross students for electives.... ****ers....

Is this still true? Are we not allowed to do any electives at Kings?

[missdr]

Hi guys. Right now I'm scheduled to start Pysch at St. Johns in Far Rockaway but I've been told Pysch at Kings county is also available. If anyone has any insights into which is better please let me know. How is the pysch rotation at Kings county? Is Kings accessible by train? Sorry for the questions, it's my first rotation and I'm not from NY, so I'm confused about a lot of stuff... Thanks!

[thethom]

Yeah both Kings and SJEH are accessible by train, Kings is closest to the Winthrop St. stop on the 2 and 5 trains, and SJEH to the Far Rockaway stop on the A train(although I would recommend driving there, its a long ride) I did psych at SJEH. You have the choice to do Inpatient, outpatient, Detox, or Psych ER. I chose psych ER, supposedly the most difficult/time consuming, however hours were 9:30-12 on most days, so go figure.. At Kings, if you get child psych, hours are long, but with adult psych I believe they are much shorter. Check the SJEH thread for more info on psych there. Best of luck.

[LostSoul]

I've heard some ...amazing... things about this place, but for some reason I don't care and I hope I come out of it for the better. Any words of wisdom or advise to help me thru would be AWSOME. thanks

[Dr.Kovac]

I'm nearing the end of med school and I can tell you Kings was one the best rotations I have had. I learned a ton here!!!
Advice...be ready to work like never before, and make sure you know anything and everything about your patients!!!
Awesome rotation!!! Happy to hear Ross hasn't lost this one.

[thethom]

Ditto on Kovac's comment. So glad I rotated through Kings. St. Mary's surgery core is similar, just longer hours... Best of luck, let us "Kings Alumni" know how it is..!

[LostSoul]

Will do. I think I will chronicle the rotation in a blog on this site. I will be as factual as possible. Everything from the housing to what i'll be trying to study durring, what recommendations i reieve, etc. The idea just came to me because there are plenty of questions i have but not sure how to ask or whom. Thank you Dr. Kovac and TheThom

[walle_tx]

Starting Medicine on Dec 1st too, any advice on other places to live other than the T-building?

[summerwind]

I'm nearing the end of med school and I can tell you Kings was one the best rotations I have had. I learned a ton here!!!
Advice...be ready to work like never before, and make sure you know anything and everything about your patients!!!
Awesome rotation!!! Happy to hear Ross hasn't lost this one.

Kings is one of the HHC hospitals that SGU purchased exclusive rights to the clinical spots. They don't have enough students to fill the spots yet but I would expect that there will not be any new non-SGU students starting there next year.

[thethom]

I keep hearing that. They said the same thing last year. We'll see...

[Sideswipe]

So is King's already lost? Can new Ross students still rotate there? I hear it was one of the better sites in NYC.

[nimahani]

Who can we contact in Ross to determine if we really lost this one?

[RVCA1981]

Who can we contact in Ross to determine if we really lost this one?

well you can call the clinical dept.