Power of Attorney vs. Written will

[abualrim]

A man comes to the ER & needs intubating he is unconsious, He has a written will saying that " Don't intubate me",Then his son (27 y.o) comes , he has Power of attorney and says "Intubate my Dad,Doc"
Ehat should you do?

[stateofequilibrium]

Ask for proof of insurance.

[abualrim]

Source pls?

In your defence you ARE an A****le

[stateofequilibrium]

Source pls?

In your defence you ARE an A****le

I like to cite popular media and common satire.

[teratos]

No, you don't intubate him. He has expressed his wishes in a Living Will, a legal document. G

[Unregistered]

No, you don't intubate him. He has expressed his wishes in a Living Will, a legal document. G

I was under the impression that a POA overrides a living will. For legal purposes, the person with a POA is the patient.

[teratos]

I was under the impression that a POA overrides a living will. For legal purposes, the person with a POA is the patient.

No, Living will expresses the wishes of the patient, that is the most important person in the decision making chain. You make a living will so your wishes will be known in the event that you can't tell people what you want. What is the point of a living will if it only applies to a patient you can talk to?

POA gives you direction when the patients wishes are not known. NOT the case with a living will. G

[DOMINICANO]

the durable power of attorney is more flexible than a living will, supersedes living will if both exists. according to medessencial 2006 from kapplan page 67

[teratos]

the durable power of attorney is more flexible than a living will, supersedes living will if both exists. according to medessencial 2006 from kapplan page 67

Not entirely correct:

You may wish to make clear, for example, that the person is not authorized to override your "living will", an instrument which limits the right of doctors and hospitals to resuscitate you or to utilize invasive life support to keep you alive.
From:
http://www.expertlaw.com/library/estate_planning/power_of_attorney.html

If there are separate documents, the Power of Attorney should be written to override the Living Will if there is any ambiguity or disagreement between the documents.
from:
http://elderlawtucson.com/directives.html

Can anyone else override my wishes about CPR?
No. You have the right to make your own decisions about your health care. If you are not able to express your wishes, other people such as your legal guardian, a person you named in a health care power of attorney, or a family member can speak for you. You should make sure these people know your desires about CPR. If your doctor writes a DNR order at your request, your family cannot override it.
from:
http://www.lucas-co-probate-ct.org/Do%20Not%20Resuscitate.htm


In people who have a good living will (not one of the "forms" people often use) they are very specific about what they want done. In this instance, there is no ambiguity. I have seen many living wills that say "under no circumstances should I be placed on any form of life support including mechanical ventilation, tube feedings.....etc." In these cases, the POA doesn't have the right to override. They are surrogate decision makers, and in this case, their input isn't needed. We already have the will of the patients expressed in a legal document.


addendum: It seems that upon further review, some states to allow the POA to override the living will. Makes it important to discuss issues with your POA, make your wishes known, and make sure they will follow what you want. G

[mital82]

sorry taratos, but i heard that power of attorney over rides the living will.

the reason they have given is that u should follow what is the last communication with the patient. and when POA talks it is considered that patient through him is talking to doctor directly.
when people make living will they r not actually aware of what situation it is like when they will need dnr or something that dreadly. so when the situation arises itself the patient has right to follow or deny what he stated earlier . so i think if he wants he can revoke his living will.and if we consider that POA is the patient himself speaking through him than we have to consider it.

please explain why this logic should be wrong.

[teratos]

If you don't know the patients wishes, then the POA is speaking for the patient. If the patient has express wishes, in writing, a legal document, saying they don't want to be intubated etc., then you know the patient's wishes, and there is no need to ask anyone. Please look at the links just above the post you made. The POA should be consulted in the event the patients wishes are not known.

I have dealt with two patients who had living wills very clearly stating they do not, under any circumstances, want to be put on a ventilator. Even if it is possibly a temporary measure. In both cases, I spoke with the patients, in the presence of the POA, and they confirmed that this was the case. Their wishes were clear. Both people were chronically ill. When the patients conditions deteriorated, their POA's wanted them intubated. In both cases, I refused, citing the living will, the discussion that we had with the patient.

Here is yet another link for you:

http://www.smith-lawfirm.com/Estate.html

The paragraph that is important is:

The statutory Health Care Agent is appointed to carry out your wishes concerning important health care decisions; i.e., the withdrawal of life support. The standard power of attorney can also authorize your Attorney in Fact to make these important decisions, Conn. Gen. Stats. § 1-54a, although someone appointed under a power of attorney cannot override the wishes expressed in a statutory Living Will drawn up in accordance with §§ 19a-575 to 19a-575a. To avoid confusion or conflict, it is recommended that you provide for both an Attorney in Fact and a Health Care agent and they should be the same person. The role of the health care agent is to carry out your directions as set forth in the living will and not to make discretionary decisions on his own.

G

[microphage]

sorry taratos, but i heard that power of attorney over rides the living will.

the reason they have given is that u should follow what is the last communication with the patient. and when POA talks it is considered that patient through him is talking to doctor directly.
when people make living will they r not actually aware of what situation it is like when they will need dnr or something that dreadly. so when the situation arises itself the patient has right to follow or deny what he stated earlier . so i think if he wants he can revoke his living will.and if we consider that POA is the patient himself speaking through him than we have to consider it.

please explain why this logic should be wrong.

In Kaplan, it states that the health power of attorney authorizes the person to be the voice of the patient. (just as u said) This supercedes the living will. Whether or not this is what happens in real life, I don't know.

[teratos]

In Kaplan, it states that the health power of attorney authorizes the person to be the voice of the patient. (just as u said) This supercedes the living will. Whether or not this is what happens in real life, I don't know.

No, it doesn't. The POA is the voice of the patient when the patient can't make his wishes known. If the patient has a living will that is very specific, the patients wishes are known, making the POA useless. Please look at the link in my above post. G

[step2er]

Hello,
Whats your opinion about pregancy nullifying her living will.
Will it apply for all states??