question about doing clinicals in europe

[Myxomatosis]

alright here is my question. I read mixed things about going to clinicals in Europe. Some say that its helps and some say that it neither helps nor hurts. Very little say that its a bad move. If it is true that it neither helps nor hurts you in the long run....then why aren't more people going to europe for clinicals? I think it would be an experience of a LIFETIME to be able to live in europe for two yrs! Especially while you are studying medicine and continuing the path towards becoming a doctor. Is there something that I am missing? I just dont see why more people aren't taking this route. That leads me to believe that there is something that I dont see that everyone else sees. Then I come to think that going to europe is a mistake. Know what I mean? Is there something Im missing? Is it the expenses of living in europe? I understand that some cannot do it because they have families, but what about the ones that don't? The people that Ive talked to that have done their clinicals in europe say that it was a great experience and that it even helped them. sorry for the long post. Any replies would be much appreciated! Thanks people.

[Skipper]

1- family
2- expense--pound cost more than the dollar--so a single person has it easier their than a family of 4
3- people have left wives and children in the states that they dont want to move to europe and want to get back to them
4- some people dont like europe

there are many reasons--it is all up a personally opinion in th end

skipper

[slevit1]

It was my understanding that you should rotate through hospitals that you want to eventually get a residency at. Because of this, wouldn't it hurt you to go to Europe for clinicals? Also, wouldn't hospitals prefer that you have some US training?

[levator]

alright here is my question. I read mixed things about going to clinicals in Europe. Some say that its helps and some say that it neither helps nor hurts. Very little say that its a bad move. If it is true that it neither helps nor hurts you in the long run....then why aren't more people going to europe for clinicals? I think it would be an experience of a LIFETIME to be able to live in europe for two yrs! Especially while you are studying medicine and continuing the path towards becoming a doctor. Is there something that I am missing? I just dont see why more people aren't taking this route. That leads me to believe that there is something that I dont see that everyone else sees. Then I come to think that going to europe is a mistake. Know what I mean? Is there something Im missing? Is it the expenses of living in europe? I understand that some cannot do it because they have families, but what about the ones that don't? The people that Ive talked to that have done their clinicals in europe say that it was a great experience and that it even helped them. sorry for the long post. Any replies would be much appreciated! Thanks people.

the main reasons that i can see so far is: first, after spending 20 months in the caribbean, some people do not want to leave their families again. second, the exchange rate for the dollar pretty much sucks. its slightly better in ireland (since they use the euro) but in the UK, its pretty steep. me and my roomate have made ends meet but we have to make smart choices. beside those two reasons, there are not many important reasons why not to your clinicals in europe.

point of correction... core rotations in europe are for about 11 months, not two years.

later,

[AUCMD2006]

5. its close to france

[microphage]

5. its close to france

which implies, you can smell France

[Myxomatosis]

really? Clinicals are only 11 months in Europe? Why not 2 yrs?

[redzz]

If you want to go to Europe, you are assigned 42 weeks of core clinical rotations there. If you choose, you can stay to finish your 30 weeks of electives but it's not recommended because it's better to do your electives in the states in order to get experience in US hospitals and do any "audition electives" in hospitals you might want to complete your residency training at. As far as why everyone isn't fighting to go to Europe, I can tell you first hand being a student finishing up in Ireland. I miss home! I haven't been around my friends and family for 3 years now! After the 20 months on the island, I think most students have had enough of being away. Don't get me wrong, it's been an amazing experience and I've seen so many things I never thought I'd get to see. But at the same time I understand why somebody would rather go back to the states after spending their required stint in Caribbean purgatory.

[levator]

BELOW IS A COPY ON AN EMAIL I SENT TO AN AUC STUDENT AFTER HE EMAILED WITH QUESTIONS REGARDING CLINICALS IN ENGLAND. JUST THOUGHT I WOULD POST IT IN CASE ANYONE ELSE NEEDS THE INFO:

Hey,

I will try to answer your questions the best i can. if for some reason i leave something out, please dont hesitate to email me again. First of all, you need to know that what i know about clinicals in England concerns the London town of Kingston and Kingston Hospital. There are several other sites that you could be assigned to. If there is a specific site you would like to go to, you can request it but there is no guarantee you will get it. This depends mostly on how many other students are starting with you.

As far as the hospital here: The hours vary greatly. I am in internal medicine right now and we have to be at the hospital at 9am. rarely am I there after 5pm. The call days are every 10 days and basically the team you are assigned with takes call and does all intakes for that day in the ER. students are not required to do call here but most do because thats when you get to clerk patients in; that is do a history, a physical, take bloods, put in iv's, and basically practice your skills. the schedule for surgery and other rotations varies a little bit. in surgery, the hours are a bit longer per day.

as far as the teaching: its basically the same as in basic sciences in that it varies depending on who you are with. also, it depends on how busy the team is and how short staffed they are. most of the teams i have been with, let me shadow them, let me help with procedures, ask me questions to quiz me and let me write notes on the patients' charts. the hospital took me a week or so to get used to because the system has its differences (ie. writing in notes, blood forms, layout of the wards etc etc). the general belief here is that med students dont have to be here if they dont want to. if you dont show up for days, noone will look for you. this is how most british med students act. the american med students show up everyday, a trait that most doctors have come to expect and appreciate of us. but if you want to take a day off here or there, noone will say anything. i take a day off almost every week to study and catch up on my log book. also, the med students have free reign to go anywhere in the hospital to learn. the clinics are open to students and thats when attendings see outpatients. once you learn a procedure like taking blood, you can go and practice as much or as little as you want. so basically, you have to be motivated and ready to learn.

like i said before, most days start at 9am with rounds. depending on the patient load, rounds usually take 2-3 hours. then the house officer (intern) and senior house officer (resident) do the jobs than need to be done and thats when the med student can jump in and help. on rounds, depending on whose team you are on, you are asked questions aka "get pimped". after lunch, you can go back to the wards and practice taking patient histories, do physicals, do procedures that need to be done. most afternoons there is also clinic which you can go seat in.

the other aspect of our teaching is "classroom teaching". we have a senior resident from surgery that takes us once a week and teaches us a theory and practical session on various subjects. this week we are getting a tutorial on electrolyte imbalances and then on blood taking and angiocath insertion.

my only warning to someone coming over here is a warning about finances. london is great. i love living here. but everything is more expensive than living on st maarten. basically, everything here is twice as expensive. most one bedroom apartments are btw 600 and 800 pounds a month. my roomate and I were lucky to find a two bedroom/two bathroom apartment for 800 pounds a month ( about 1500 dollars). just be aware of that. also, since we have no credit history here, we had to put up 6 months of rent in advance in order to get an apt. it is just like relocating to st maarten and forking out a bunch of money first semester.

i hope that answers your questions. if there is anything else i can answer, dont hesitate to email me.

later,

HOPE THAT ANSWERS SOME QUESTIONS

[microphage]

too long to read... I still haven't finished my chapter on pulmonary embolisms...

[marines]

Hey guys - I'm not an AUC student - but have arranged for some UK clinicals for myself at Epsom Hospital, which works with AUC. Sounds great - but they want me to have UK malpractice insurance. Know of any UK malpractice companies I can contact. Thanks much for your help.

[grace]

Sorry, I wouldn't know because we never had to search for it. AUC provides malpractice insurance for it's students.

[jdsi]

5. its close to france

You should have posted that in bold face with a 24 font size.