Upper termers, did you have a neuro curve?

[RAMAIR57]

I dont know about what the others thought, but I thought our neuro final was very, very difficult. I didnt do as well as I wanted, and after my bonus points I ended up with a 78.67 percent total grade (soooo close to an 80). I really want to be able to get a B in this class so I wont have to worry as much about GPA later on, so please tell me that from your experience they drop the grade cut-off enough so that I can get this B! I have a feeling it'll be awhile until they have the results, so perhaps someone can make me feel better for the time being.

[tralfaz]

FWIW, the secretary said that they will post the grades tomorrow morning.

As of now, Angel has what appears to be raw score plus quiz points up already.

[emt036]

Is that with or without the T-score? That will probably bring it up...

[RAMAIR57]

thats just my average including bonus points, no t-score consideration with that. Do you guys thatll be good enough for a B?

[tralfaz]

so a 64 is a c
a 78 is a b
but a 90 is still an a?

so my 88 is worth the same as a 78?
sheesh.

oh well, at least it's over.

[vtrain]

Yeah....but dont feel too bad,as it could be worse. You could be the idiot who studied 11.3% too much for the course and end up with a 89.3% (T score 59.7). Oh wait, that's me...

That exam had to be one of the worst written exams at SGU to date. Considering the number of irrelevant details tested, I cant believe they didn't throw out a SINGLE question. But I sure am glad that I've flown enough times to realize that jet lag is worst going from WEST to EAST...sheesh....

[tralfaz]

thanks vtrain, you made me feel better!

[emt036]

Yeah, it is a wierd breakdown - B and C are a bit left shifted, but A stayed right where it was.

Oh well, I don't care, I don't have to take the class again. :-)

[algen]

Yes and now you can throw away your German translator.

[edved100]

Hey guys,
I figured that while this thread was up and running I would throw my 2 cents in. Did anybody out there feel like the question dealing with the dolls eye maneuver was a little bit ambiguous? Maybe it was just me but I felt like in the PHOTOCOPY of the head rotated to the left, It looked like the left eye was completely adducted indicating a normal test. It made it appear as though there was nothing wrong with the tracts responsible for the VO reflex. After gradeing the the test I realized that the photocopy was supposed to depict the left eye stopped at the midline with the head rotated to the left. I would have got the quetion right had I known what the intended results of the manuever were. Coincidently this was the difference in a letter grade for me and i'm really not happy about it. I plan to see Dr. K tomorrow but I have little hope based on what people say about him. I just wanted to see if I was the only one who felt this way about that question.
later
edved

[tralfaz]

Yep, it looked like normal vor to me too. Kept thinking what a silly question it was...

sigh...
sigh....
sigh......

[emt036]

If people couldn't get that stupid question about the feeding habits of males and females thrown out, I don't have much hope for you. But good luck! :-)

[tralfaz]

Wasn't there some strange one about applying a cold stimulus to the ant hypothalamus as well?

[vtrain]

Hey guys,
I figured that while this thread was up and running I would throw my 2 cents in. Did anybody out there feel like the question dealing with the dolls eye maneuver was a little bit ambiguous? Maybe it was just me but I felt like in the PHOTOCOPY of the head rotated to the left, It looked like the left eye was completely adducted indicating a normal test. It made it appear as though there was nothing wrong with the tracts responsible for the VO reflex. After gradeing the the test I realized that the photocopy was supposed to depict the left eye stopped at the midline with the head rotated to the left. I would have got the quetion right had I known what the intended results of the manuever were. Coincidently this was the difference in a letter grade for me and i'm really not happy about it. I plan to see Dr. K tomorrow but I have little hope based on what people say about him. I just wanted to see if I was the only one who felt this way about that question.
later
edved

I completely agree; it looks like this question ended up being the difference for me too. However, on test form 'C' the eye was suppose to be AD-ducted and the answer was normal. I slaved over this question for minutes and thought the eye was in midline position. I even got up during the test to ask Dr. K but he wouldnt tell me and said that if there was a problem with the question that I would need to challenge the question. Unbelievable, right?? - the purpose of him being there is to provide clarifications for situations exactly like this one. Anyways, I emailed him today, but have yet to hear a reply. Please post tomorrow or PM me and let me know what he says. Given his track record, I doubt he will do anything, but it is worth a shot. Good luck! 8)

[edved100]

Hey folks,

I went in to see Dr. K today, it was an interesting visit to say the least. First I had to wait a while to see him becasue lets say he's in "high demand" these days. Once I got in I asked him how I was supposed to tell the eye was in the midline and not adducted (on the VOR question) he then said "I realize that the quality of the pic was poor but because you had a similar picture in the notes which was of POORER quality you should have been able to recognize that something was not right with the eye" He then went on to say that "they've used the question in the past and enough people have gotten the question right for them to warrant it a valid question". I explained that many people had a problem with the question and what it boiled down to was the way you percieved the photocopy, making this all a little too subjective. I guaranteed him that if he made the question less ambiguous more would get the question right becasue lets face it...it's not a hard question. Everybody and their brother new it was going to be on there and everyone was ready for that one.
So....I expressed my disgust (in a professional manner of course :-)
in the fact that my grade was lowered one letter grade by a question that you could only get right if your perception of the photocopy was the same as the Profs. He then went on to say (and I love this part) that the only true A, B, or C is in the mid to high range and that the ones falling in low range were more or less luck and it could have just as easily gone the other way. I don't know about you guys but i'm not willing to accept that...he tried to make me feel better by saying "maybe next time you'll go the other way" LOL. My question is, is he going to be there explaining to the PD's that we were on the border line and it could have just as easily gone the other way, when we are interviewing for residencies?" I think not....all they will see is F, C, or B on the transcript. (yeah i know the boards matter the most, but it's the principal of it all)
At any rate....i've made an appointment with Dr. P (the histo. guy) and the Dean of students is on my schedule for next week. I would like to encourage all of you that may have fallen on the fence like I have and have fallen prey to some of these subjective questions (you know there is more like the ventromedial nucleus question) to do the same. It may or may not ammount to a hill of beans, but you never know until we try and as the saying goes the more the merrier. Check you guys later
edved

[kidsdocorbust]

Good for you, Edved, hopefully it will make a difference for all of us who are not "true As, **, or Cs." Let us know how your next meetings go!

[edved100]

Hey guys,

My appointment with Dr. P got moved to next week, but I did speak with Mrs. S.R. in the Dean of Students office and she said that many students are formally complaining and she is asking all of us to write a formal complaint and send it to her through email. It's also my understanding that the SGA is doing their best to make a formal complaint to the Dean of Students office as well. So again, if you have a problem with the final please take a minute to visit with the Dean of Students office and voice your opinion.
catch ya later
edved

[vtrain]

tralfaz and edved100,
Thanks for taking the initiative and doing some of the leg work to get this issue resolved. I'll send along a formal complaint to Mrs.SR and Dr.P. Keep us posted!

[f1drvr]

Since you asked, i guess a while ago, we did have a curve, and an A was in the 80's for sure, although im not sure by how much, im thinking around 87%. I hope your diligence pays off for you all. I know what its like to be on the fence like that and miss out by one question difference and then have the profs basically shut the door on you. We were in Miami and for our Micro final, whcih honestly wasnt that bad, they collected the test, graded it, threw out a few questions, curved the A down a little, and then pakced up and left Barry Universtity before anyone could even inquire or say anything. I guess they felt pretty confident no mistakes were made.

If it doesnt work out, keep in mind its just one class, and one B, as much as it sucks to get after putting your time in, is really inconsequential in the grand scheme of things.

By the way do NOT throw away your German translators, you may want to upgrade them for Vinnies. We have full powerpoint slides in german, no joke.

[restlesseye]

By the way do NOT throw away your German translators, you may want to upgrade them for Vinnies. We have full powerpoint slides in german, no joke.

yes of course. i was looking at one of the packets this evening and almost memorized the entire slide only realizing much later it was just an advertisement in german.

[Drdumbledore]

I can't believe that neuro department. So many people complained and challenged that optical eye-lusion question last term and they didn't throw it out or take the effort to redraw it?
Those guys are funny, but grades are unfortunately taken too seriously by people now adays and it is unfortunate that they spend the effort t-scoring and then say it is all chance and luck. Why not give the benifit of the doubt.
For what it's worth, I put my time in challenging questions last term, ones I didn't even miss (which I rarely do) because their test really flipped me out. Dr. K ended up grabbing my test and challenge papers away from me on my 12th or so challenge. I didn't realize I was the last one in there.
From what you all are saying, sounds like they didn't do anything. There is only one soultion if the deans won't do anything: memorize and post all the bad questions for next term. Just the bad ones though.

[kingalls]

This is going to sound bad, but I didn't really have a problem with the neuro grading this term. Sure I though some of the questions on the final were vaguely drawn and/or poorly written, but if they really are statistically analyzing each question (and I have no reason to believe they are not) and an acceptable % of people are getting the question right, then I'm not really sure how the administration is going to act. It really sucks to get screwed by a bum question, or a grade cutoff that didn't curve enough but I'm sure Dr. K would just point to the 15 points they already gave us. And I imagine that so long as the t-score bell curve shows the right number of people with A's, B's, C's and F's, the administration would probably agree with him. Anyway, best of luck with the formal protests (I challenged my share of questions too) and hopefully all of this will at least lead to a more straightforward exam or grading policy.

[edved100]

Just an FYI,
And I could be wrong on this, but I heard that the EXTRA 15 points were included in the T-score....if that is the case then that doesn't make them seem so extra to me. That's just me and again I could be wrong, i'm just relaying what I heard from some SGA folks. The other thing that baffles me is the fact that on angel they said that this class has performed sub par compared to classes from the past thus we have decided to keep the letter grades as stated in the course policy. Does anybody understand that?? I think that these clowns are giving themselves a little more credit than they deserve. It's like saying "the teaching was perfect you guys just screwed up somewhere in your learning." One way or the other my main problem is the fact that inorder to get some of the questions right you must first percieve the question the way the teacher intendes you to percieve it (and there is multiple ways to percieve it). If you happen to percieve it there way then it's easy as pie, if you don't percieve it their way then you don't have a prayer. That to me is crap.
catch ya later
edved

[daguru]

umm....yeah. couldna said it better myself. but i have to say, for all this hubbub and all the letters, meetings and whatnots that we have all been writing, having, and whatnot respectively, i dont really see them doing much. apparently they thought it was fair. i feel the admin. wont want to go over their heads, because that will just piss em off, and maybe the rest of the dept's as well, so the admin. might make some weak attempts to do something, and then give up, because they really can't do anything else.

it sucks, i got a grade lower than i was expecting, but..it's med school, the hammer was bound to come down at some point....this is that point. i think we have to lick our wounds and be prepared, so micro or path can't do this to us next term...

[daguru]

oh, a question: do you think the APCs will do anything for the people who didnt do well? as in, the people who didnt pass the class? i dont know really...anything about the APC's, so im curious, this might be an option for people, assuming they would do something about it. upper termers: have any input?

[tralfaz]

well the results are in: no questions will be thrown out (check ANGEL for the complete report).