Help do I go to ROSS or St. George?

[CWRISTERS]

Help I do not know which school to attend this 2005. I have heard only good things about St. George and mixed reviews about Ross. Can anyone fill in the gaps to Ross. It seems like people say that everyone who applies to Ross are accepted. Does anyone know of someone who was not accepted. Are there good tutor's on campus? Which school should I go to. The only thing that I really want to know is which school wil provide the best eduacation? Please HELP!

[MitchDC]

Congratulations, you have gotten yourself into the same situation that many of us faced. While some Ross students had never heard of St. George's and some St. George's students have never heard of Ross, many of us did our research and finally had to decide on which school is best FOR THEM.

Note that I didn't say, "which school is BEST", but instead said which school is "best for you".

Both St. Georges and Ross are great schools. If you work hard at either you will learn what you need to learn, pass your boards, and get a great residency.

Since I haven't been to SGU, I can only comment on Ross. Its a very good medical school. The teachers are great and from what I hear they continue to improve. The classrooms are nicer than at any other Caribbean school. Not everybody is admitted by any means - your odds are better if you meet all the pre-requisites and show promise to be able to graduate. At least in the past, I do believe the admissions criteria at Ross were somewhat less stringent (or "more understanding"). Recently that may have evened out. The class sizes at SGU are now quite a bit larger than at Ross. Tuition at Ross is far less expensive. Ross is owned by a publically traded US company and associated with the second largest accredited US educational institution. Our Executive Dean is very experience in US medical education and has received awards from Harvard for his educational model. Dominca is a beautiful country with very friendly people, however it is somwhat less touristy and more third-world than Granada. You are only on the island for 4 semesters - so if you go home during breaks that is less than 16 months. Ross only sends students to the United States for clinical rotations and focuses on training US citizens to return to the US. Professors are there only to teach you so if you need some help, go to their office and sit with them until you understand the material. The remediation/tutoring system seems more organized at SGU, but since I haven't been there I don't know first hand.

Which will provide YOU with the best education is determined by many different factors and is specific to your own learning style, your academic experiences and abilities, your work ethic, etc. None of us can tell you which to choose, but best of luck wherever you end up!

MitchDC

Help I do not know which school to attend this 2005. I have heard only good things about St. George and mixed reviews about Ross. Can anyone fill in the gaps to Ross. It seems like people say that everyone who applies to Ross are accepted. Does anyone know of someone who was not accepted. Are there good tutor's on campus? Which school should I go to. The only thing that I really want to know is which school wil provide the best eduacation? Please HELP!

[CWRISTERS]

MitchDC
Thanks for the positive outlook on Ross. I have heard lots of negaitve things about Ross and I am glad that you have brought something new and refreshing about the school.

If anyone else has more information please let me hear it!

[restlesseye]

i had no clue of ross or sgu when i was looking. i was going to just go to AUC because thats the only one i heard of. i got accepted at all 3 and ended up going to SGU because of some family options which were favourable (housing, employment etc..)

i put both schools side by side and couldnt find a reason to go to one over the other. both schools are established and have been cranking out doctors for many years in all fields and in all states. the odd time you here a ross student didnt get this or an sgu student didnt get that..... blah blah blah.... you never get the full story here just pieces of it and these forums work on speculation like fox news or something like that.

i have not heard of anyone at these 2 schools with any serious complaints. im sure colleagues at ross would agree there are some good profs and some not so good profs but these things exist at ALL institutions medical or otherwise. grading policies are similar too. at SGU if your GPA falls below 2.0 your are booted and have to re-apply. also you must maintain a GPA above 2.25 to be promoted. ie you need a 75% average and above to keep moving.

sometimes the crime rate in dominica overshadows the news but having spent almost 2 years in grenada i can tell you its no different. these are developing nations with their own host of problems. i went through a hurricane in grenada and it was blown to smithereens and still there was crime.

dont make crime your deciding factor. the rate is more than likely the same in grenada as it is in dominica. im in st. vincents now and it appears worse that im seeing the machete wounds that come in at night here. theft is quite high here and the cops are quite lazy.

i would toss a coin or use a dart board. both institutions are well respected on the east coast.

best of luck to your future!

[CWRISTERS]

Thanks restlesseye!

I have to different views now one on Ross and the other St. George. Like you too was in the same situation and you picked St. George. If you had to do it all over again would you pick St. George or would yuu go another route???

[homerbrave]

Help I do not know which school to attend this 2005. I have heard only good things about St. George and mixed reviews about Ross. Can anyone fill in the gaps to Ross. It seems like people say that everyone who applies to Ross are accepted. Does anyone know of someone who was not accepted. Are there good tutor's on campus? Which school should I go to. The only thing that I really want to know is which school wil provide the best eduacation? Please HELP!

Both SGU and Ross are quality medical schools. There is no such thing as a perfect school but I get the impression that SGU is probably the better choice for you. You should go to SGU or you will be second guessing yourself whenever you run into a problem at Ross. This is a challenging program.

One glaring difference between the two schools is the RUSM clinical office. I have never heard of any student being involuntary Dropped from a clinical rotation at any other medical school and being told to take a review course to learn medicine!!!! This happens all the times here at RUSM for various reasons(excuses??).

So if you want to do OB/GYN residency, scheduled it 8 months in advance, and get drop then you will 1) have to learn ob/gyn on your own b/c the next available ob/gyn rotation won't be for another 6-8 months2) have no ob/gyn letter of recomendations to send to ERAS 3)and you might fail step 2 and miss ur match/graduation all together. "Sorry for the inconvenience" is what a NJ office staffer posted on this forum.

So what's my point? Ross will get you where you want to be but you will get spitted on alot along the way. SGU won't be a cakewalk either but u'll probably be spared alot of unnecessary stress and possilbe CAD/PTSD/anxiety/depression sequelae in the process.

[CWRISTERS]

Wow homberbrave it's crazy that you talk about ob/gyn cause that is the field I want to get in to! Wow are you a physic...lol...THANKS FOR THE ADVICE!!!!!

[restlesseye]

i have not heard of such a problem in our clerkship years. after step 1 is done we are well taken care of in our clinical years. i have heard of failures in certain cores but nothing like what ive just heard here.

if i had to decide again between SGU and ROSS? i couldnt say. i only can speak of my experiences at SGU and for the most part it has been great but there are lots of things which are common to both schools so i guess my complaints wouldnt hold much water.

go where its cheaper. is there a big tuition difference between the 2 schools?

[CWRISTERS]

yes the difference in money is great. Thanks Restlesseye

[Gator98MD]

I am willing to bet that the experiences of your typical Ross student and typical SGU student are similar. I have done rotations with many SGU students and they complain about exactly the same things we Rossies do in regards to our respective schools. Ross is a good school that will get you where you want to be. (I will be starting my residency This july)
But i do want to make one point. I will say this however, as someone who did the majority of their rotations in NYC, SGU has better clinical sites in NYC. Bottom line. They have More "clinical centers" no matter what your definition of that term may be. Methodist, Maimonides, LICH, Jamaica and the list goes on. These are pretty decent hospitals. we have nothing like this in NYC (and dont say Wyckoff).
I know this will be a contentious source of debate but these are my observations/opinions. I am proud to have gone to Ross but I have to be honest here. Good luck with your choice.

[restlesseye]

we can stay in the same place for 2 years if we wanted to. no need to move around. clinical centers have all of our mandatory cores plus our electives. you can also choose to bounce around and from what i've been hearing its quite well coordinated.

[homerbrave]

I am willing to bet that the experiences of your typical Ross student and typical SGU student are similar. I have done rotations with many SGU students and they complain about exactly the same things we Rossies do in regards to our respective schools. Ross is a good school that will get you where you want to be. (I will be starting my residency This july)
But i do want to make one point. I will say this however, as someone who did the majority of their rotations in NYC, SGU has better clinical sites in NYC. Bottom line. They have More "clinical centers" no matter what your definition of that term may be. Methodist, Maimonides, LICH, Jamaica and the list goes on. These are pretty decent hospitals. we have nothing like this in NYC (and dont say Wyckoff).
I know this will be a contentious source of debate but these are my observations/opinions. I am proud to have gone to Ross but I have to be honest here. Good luck with your choice.

Yes, I agree. Our clinical spots in NYC are generally of poorer quality than the SGU ones. Our NJ clinical department is inferior as well.

[restlesseye]

dont we have many clinical sites in common?
barnabas? beth israel? jersey city? jamaica? etc...

[Gator98MD]

dont we have many clinical sites in common?
barnabas? beth israel? jersey city? jamaica? etc...

1) We have St. Barnabas in the BRonx, not the one in Jersey like you guys do.
2) We dont have B.I. as far as i know.
3) We dont have Jersey city either as far I know.
4) We had jamaica for a long time, then lost it, and now it has been rumored that we are getting it back. But I dont know. I dont have my ear to the pavement like i used to.

[homerbrave]

dont we have many clinical sites in common?
barnabas? beth israel? jersey city? jamaica? etc...

1) We have St. Barnabas in the BRonx, not the one in Jersey like you guys do.
2) We dont have B.I. as far as i know.
3) We dont have Jersey city either as far I know.
4) We had jamaica for a long time, then lost it, and now it has been rumored that we are getting it back. But I dont know. I dont have my ear to the pavement like i used to.

yeah, we have Jamaica back again. We got Kern back too. They opened more spots at LICH but most people are at Wyckoff(yuck), King's County, Peninsula, Brookale. Very desirable and safe hospitals :P

No, we don't have Beth Israel. don't know about jersey city.

[MD999]

Thats an easy one. Just go to St George. Less politics and drama, proven results (very high USMLE pass rate as compared to other Caribbean schools). Ross accepts anybody and everybody, St George has a very competitive admission policy and a WAY BETTER ISLAND than Ross's Dominica. Good luck with your application to St George's.

[restlesseye]

we have lich, brookdale, and kern as well. excellent sites from what i heard and lich has super hands on

also have maimonides, methodist, luthern, soundshore in westchester in NY
monmoth and st. michaels in NJ
highland hospital in oakland
providence in michigan

[Gator98MD]

Every SGU student I have talked to raves about Highland Hospital in oakland, CA

I did some electives at LICH that I thought were excellent.
I did a number of electives at Kern which also were stellar.
I did an elective at maimo which was great too

But Dangnabbit, To say that Brookdale is an excellent site is just laughable. I did Peds there which I thought was quite poor. Plus it has to be in the worst part of Brooklyn imaginable.

we do have good sites. you just have to tailor your schedule the best you can to get these sites.

[singer]

I have been reading all of the responses and I am happy that my son chose Ross. He was happy to get out of the Carribean after 16 months and enjoyed his AICM in Miami. He is now studying for Step 1.

The only problem Ross has is the quality and location of the vlinical sites. SGU has ST. Barnibus which is located in suburban New Jersey and where a student can do all rotations. They have several other clinical centers where students can live in one place convienient to the hospital.

A major flaw seems to be the communication by the Clinical staff at Ross. You can call and send emails and not get any response. This can be very frustrating. The students are paying good monies and should expect better communications. Why can SGU be more organized in their clincal areas then ROSS. Haven't seen anynew Ross clinical sites posted on the webpage. You would think with the larger number of students going into rotations there would be more sites, of a better quality to choose from.

Only time will tell with my son. First pass the test and then hopefully get all ACGMe rotations in a decent area.

[Chianti]

Ross vs. St. George basic sciences really comes down to the student, regardless of where you go. A good student will be successful at any school. Really has a lot more to do with the student than the school.

Ross vs. St. George Clinical Science?? Got to give a big advantage to St. George here. All their sites are ACGME and they have clinical centers, which Ross doesn't have.

BTW, I'm a Ross student.

[Shah_Patel_PT]

Ross vs. St. George basic sciences really comes down to the student, regardless of where you go. A good student will be successful at any school. Really has a lot more to do with the student than the school.

Ross vs. St. George Clinical Science?? Got to give a big advantage to St. George here. All their sites are ACGME and they have clinical centers, which Ross doesn't have.

BTW, I'm a Ross student.


Basically....PAY MORE and go to St. George's and not worry about clinical rotations. or PAY MUCH LESS and go to Ross, live on a less developed island for a short time and worry a little about clinicals.

I chose the cheaper one...as did many of my friends and relatives...who are all doing just fine.

[jim]

what happened to you Homer? I never heard of any such thing when i went to Ross, and never heard of it from anyone who I have been in touch with who isa current student.

[CWRISTERS]

Thanks everyone for the advice! I think I am leading toward St. George but I have not made any final decisions! Who knows I may end up at Ross in the end. Again thank you all for your needed advice!

cwristers

[MitchDC]

Remember, don't make your decision based solely on what you read here. Even though the students who have commented here have given you some really great ubiased and accurate information, the decision has to be yours. Do your research, go to the open houses, visit the campuses (if you are able) and decide how much debt you are comfortable handling. There are a lot of rumors out there about Ross that simply aren't true - be careful about things you "hear". Best of luck!
-MitchDC



Thanks everyone for the advice! I think I am leading toward St. George but I have not made any final decisions! Who knows I may end up at Ross in the end. Again thank you all for your needed advice!

cwristers

[link626]

yeah, we have Jamaica back again. We got Kern back too.

awesome man. I was worried that we wouldn't have Kern by the time I got around to rotations. I'd really like to go there. Having a one-stop shop is great. It's close to home too.

Now to bust my butt to get into Kern.......... :? :? :?

[mb54]

hey,

its funny, i came to the forum about to post the same question with a twist: i was gonna ask why, other than cost, did the rossies choose ross over sgu (like you, i'm deciding btwn the 2).

i think if you can afford the extra debt - go with sgu. thats what i'm gonna do. its just makes sense. here's why:
- easier arrangement of clinicals
- more clinical sites in nj/ ny and most of the usa
- more comfortable country
- better usmle stats
- better residency stats
- a bigger percentage of the class seems to go into the 'specialties' (ortho, derm, anesthesia). admittedly, this is like 3% vs. 0.5%, but thats quite a big difference.

some reasons that ross maybe more enticing:
- they have 2 patient simulators for use in the pre-clinical years
- miami would be great!
but that said, i think imma go w/ sgu

[link626]

- a bigger percentage of the class seems to go into the 'specialties' (ortho, derm, anesthesia). admittedly, this is like 3% vs. 0.5%, but thats quite a big difference.



last i recall, it's almost impossible for a caribbean grad to go into ortho or derm.

The latest sgu residency list has 2 people going into ortho. In 2003, there was one derm.

But it's pretty clear that sgu has a few very top notch students.

SGU sounds like a better school. That's as much as I will say, as i have no experience with sgu.

And in hindsight, I'd say money shouldn't really be an issue, as your 6-figure salary should cover the $40000 difference well.

[jim]

we had a few rossies from my class get ortho, as well as nuerosurgery. dont know of anyderms though. why did i chooose ross? more well known in te midwest then SGU( I actually knew grads form Ross working in ERs.). clinicals in chicago, and cheaper.comparable residnecy placement. when I went to Ross, there was no Miami, so that didnt factor in.

[Gator98MD]

If you are iinterested in doing your clinicals in the SEWER that is NYC, then by all means SGU is your best best. Overall however, our clinicals are competitive.

As far as the ultra competitive residencies go, SGU might have a negligible edge,(after reviewing the respective school's match lists) but I dont think over the long term that it meets statistical significance. (There are a few repeats from year to year on their match list.)

The bottom line is that whether you go to the "Harvard" of the caribbean or the "Yale", you are still an FMG. Like it has been mentioned before, these are competitive residencies even for US grads to get. Having said that, shoot for the stars. you can always modify choices down the road.

Furthermore, anesthesia is not that difficult to obtain and plenty of Rossies match in it every year. So dont let that be your deciding factor.
Cheers!!

[stephew]

there's always a few othopods from sgu. i know of two in derm right now. but the point is well taken. if you MUST do derm, offshore isnt a safe bet.

[singer]

GATOR98MD:

Not sure what you meant about SGU and their clinicals being in NEW York. If you look on the Ross list you will notice most students in places like Kings County , Whykoff etc. Not exactly where anybody would really want to live.

[Gator98MD]

"Not sure what you meant about SGU and their clinicals being in NEW York. If you look on the Ross list you will notice most students in places like Kings County , Whykoff etc. Not exactly where anybody would really want to live."

I simply said that when it comes to NYC and NYC only, they have better affiliations and more clinicals centers. (see my above post)
Now across the entire clinical network of both schools, I feel we are pretty even.

I rotated at both Kings and Wyckoff and you are right, Kings is in a less than desirable part of Brooklyn.
Wyckoff's area isnt that bad, but that place as I have said before, is extremely variable in terms of its rotation quality.

[link626]

how easy is it to get to do all rotations at Kern?
and is it good to do all rotations in one place?
It sounds very convenient, and I like that. Do california residents have an edge when being given rotations in california?

splitting rotations between oakland and kern sounds good too.

[Gator98MD]

Historically, it can be dificult getting Kern. Alot of factors play a role...of course preferential treatment is given to CA residents. GPA, Step I score, and number of students applying play roles as well.
My feelings on doing all of your rotations in one place are the following...at a place like Kern which has pretty good top to bottom rotations, it would be fine. Otherwise I would say its a bad idea. Fortunately/unfortunately since we have so few clinical centers, you dont really have much choice.

In a place like NYC, I would recommend taking advantage of all the hospitals that you have access to. And i am not just talking about Ross affiliated hospitals. Think outside of the box and do some electives at non-affiliated hospitals.
To my knowledge we dont have anything in Oakland, that's SGU. Hope this helps.

[sukhtinder]

the best thing to do as mitchdc said was to fly down and see both schools for yourself, that way u know what ure getting into. also if ure male and single, u may want to consider which school has the cuter chicks, that also makes a big differece if ure gonna be there for roughly 2 yrs....

[apu701]

hehe sheaking of which, sukhtinder which school has the cuter chicks? im guess ur desi. u know what im talking about

[sukhtinder]

lol apu yep im desi. i was surprised to see at least 3-4 hotties per semester on the ross yearbook website. we had maybe 1-2 in the hwole school when i was there. pretty dismal with lots of hogs. but was good since it helped us to study. glad to see theres improvements on some ends down there...

[Shah_Patel_PT]

lol apu yep im desi. i was surprised to see at least 3-4 hotties per semester on the ross yearbook website. we had maybe 1-2 in the hwole school when i was there. pretty dismal with lots of hogs. but was good since it helped us to study. glad to see theres improvements on some ends down there...

Right now there are quite a few hotties that really distract you.

[apu701]

I knew they are distarcting but honestly i think it is stupid to concentrate just on studies. I need a few distractions now and then :twisted: .. btw how is the desi community, shady as always or is it more inviting? i hate some aholes in our culture. im just trying to make life on an island as enjoyable and productive as possible. is there any indian professors? if so, can we understand them? Indians are smart but dumb teachers sometimes. look forward to meeting some of you next fall.

[link626]

there's at least one indian teacher for every class. but i have a hard time understanding 2/3 of them.
there's also this german teacher i hardly understood either.

[sukhtinder]

I knew they are distarcting but honestly i think it is stupid to concentrate just on studies. I need a few distractions now and then :twisted: .. btw how is the desi community, shady as always or is it more inviting? i hate some aholes in our culture. im just trying to make life on an island as enjoyable and productive as possible. is there any indian professors? if so, can we understand them? Indians are smart but dumb teachers sometimes. look forward to meeting some of you next fall.

yeah youre gonna see alot of shady desis as well as everyone else down there. tons of jerk-off desis will make it very un-inviting lol. i think the combo of a crappy island combined with rediculously hard tests just brings out the worst in people. lots of silly rumors always flying around, greasy guys slobbering over the rare attractive lady per semester, lots of cliques, and crazy religious fanatics combine to make life miserable down there.

thats if u make the mistake of getting involved with all of the above. if u stay to yourself with a few decent friends, you will do just fine. if u study hard and allow just a little time to relax after each mini, you will find dominica to be a decent place, and ross will not seem bad at all.

my strategy was just to stay away from all the losers, and just study in my really nice aparment (a bit of an oxymoron in dominica). when a mini was done, ide just take my handouts with me and hangout for a few days in st martin or martinique so that i could get my sanity back. nothing is better than having foi-gras and filet mignon (2 words that will never be understood by anyone in dominica, or also by the non-refined 'classy students' you will encounter everyday lol) overlooking a caribbean sunset while sipping macallan (or equivalent single malt), being away from my greasy loser colleagues at ross lol.

[link626]

my strategy was just to stay away from all the losers, and just study in my really nice aparment (a bit of an oxymoron in dominica). when a mini was done, ide just take my handouts with me and hangout for a few days in st martin or martinique so that i could get my sanity back. nothing is better than having foi-gras and filet mignon (2 words that will never be understood by anyone in dominica, or also by the non-refined 'classy students' you will encounter everyday lol) overlooking a caribbean sunset while sipping macallan (or equivalent single malt), being away from my greasy loser colleagues at ross lol.


:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

nice

[microphage]

when a mini was done, ide just take my handouts with me and hangout for a few days in st martin or martinique so that i could get my sanity back....

being away from my greasy loser colleagues at ross lol.

So then you can be with your loser colleagues at AUC!


:lol: :lol: :lol:

[link626]

hey. going back to the original topic......

when choosing between ross and sgu, you should look at the attrition rate..... perhaps.

Of the original 280 people that i started with, by 3rd semester, about 75 people either dropped out or had to repeat a semester. This info is based on a comparison of class rosters, with some margin of error. that's about 27%.

[singer]

Link626:

You can look on the positive side and say 205 students that started with you are still track to go to Miami with you. out of the 75 students many will eventually get to Miami and become doctors, just a semester late. Still not a bad deal.

[MitchDC]

Link626,

Don't you think the attrition rate has more to do with the quality of students accepted than anything else? That makes a comparison as you suggest invalid.

You can look at it the way Singer mentioned or you can look at it as follows:

That is approximately 260 individuals who would have had to choose another career path if it weren't for Ross.

-M

hey. going back to the original topic......

when choosing between ross and sgu, you should look at the attrition rate..... perhaps.

Of the original 280 people that i started with, by 3rd semester, about 75 people either dropped out or had to repeat a semester. This info is based on a comparison of class rosters, with some margin of error. that's about 27%.

[link626]

well, what i said was for those who might be unsure of themselves.
of course it also has everything to do with the student him/herself.

[agulati]

You mentioned that Carribean grads are relatively unable to go into specialties like ortho, and derm. What other specialties are difficult for carribean grads to get into? Do most grads practice primary care??

Please respond?

I am too thinking about applying to SGU or Ross, haven't decided.

[link626]

You mentioned that Carribean grads are relatively unable to go into specialties like ortho, and derm. What other specialties are difficult for carribean grads to get into? Do most grads practice primary care??

Please respond?

I am too thinking about applying to SGU or Ross, haven't decided.


ortho and derm are difficult for even US grads to get into. but even the hardest residencies are not unattainable. Just look at the latest ross residency list. there's ortho and rads.