Florida Residency/Licensure

[hernanh]

Hello All,
Does anyone know whether Florida recognizes St. Chris for residency and Licensure. I checked out www.stateofflorida.com for licensure requirements and they accept people with ECFMG certification, but I don't know whether they recognize St. Chris graduates. As for residency, I am not sure if programs in Florida accept St. Chris graduates either.
Also, is there anyone doing residency in Florida in the forum or know anybody that is?
Thank You,
Hernan H.

[bts4202]

St. Chris students ARE eligible for licensure in the state of florida. We are not eligible to do residency and clinicals though. Florida is high on St. Chris' list of states to get approval from (for clins and residency) in the near future so look for the admin to turn in the application soon. mtt probably knows more about Florida than I do though, so I am sure he will tell you more when he comes online.

[futrphysician]

I am almost certain that you can do a residency in Fla, BUT you cannot do more than 4 weeks clinical training as it stands right now. I know that Dr. ***** told me they are "in process" right now with Florida. I do not know whether that means they have submitted or are getting the information necessary to submit. Submittal takes one year from start to finish as I understand it.

Licensure in Fla is much easier than Cal. You can practice here with no problem. Cal requires much mroe like jumping thru flame laden hoops.

[hernanh]

I guess by the time I finish rotations in two years, Florida will accept students for residency.
What can you tell me mtt.
Thanks

[mtt]

I guess by the time I finish rotations in two years, Florida will accept students for residency.
What can you tell me mtt.
Thanks

We are undergoing the Florida approval process as we speak.
However, we don't know how long it will take so please be patient.

Currently, we are not allowed to do clinicals or residency in Florida. However, we do qualify for licensure in the state as long as we do our training outside of the state. This is similar for NY and TX too but some rules differ.

We could do clinicals and residency in Florida now but if we do them while we're not approved, then we'll be ineligible for licensure. It's a weird rule but that's what we were told.

For more information regarding Florida licensure, please read:

http://www.valuemd.com/viewtopic.php?t=1049

Sincerely,

[hernanh]

Who told you about this information? Was it in Florida or St. Chris because I need to make sure that this is at least 99% accurate so I would not mess up later.
Thanks mtt

[mtt]

Who told you about this information? Was it in Florida or St. Chris because I need to make sure that this is at least 99% accurate so I would not mess up later.
Thanks mtt

Students get to meet with the director a couple times in the term and we
have the opportunity to ask him questions. This question has been asked
so many times.

I'm also in government so we discuss this all the time.

However, if you want to be 99.9% sure, then call the school right now and
ask them yourself. Remember, it is your responsibility to find out this
information, not the schools. This stuff can change at any moment so you
have to contact the state agencies directly.

Also make sure you contact the proper agencies in Florida. Note, clinicals
are regulated by a separate agency, not by the licensure board.

Licensure is regulated by the Florida Department of Health:

http://www.doh.state.fl.us

Clinicals are regulated by the Commission for Independent Education:

http://www.firn.edu/doe/cie/index.htm

Details about clerkships in Florida:

http://www.firn.edu/doe/cie/clerkships.htm

[hernanh]

I called the Florida Board of Medicine earlier today and they told me that as long as the school is listed in the WHO, Florida will recognize St. Chris. So far so good, now that leaves approval for residency. I'll be waiting patiently for two years.
Thanks mtt

[hernanh]

In addition to calling the Florida Board of Medicine, I also sent them an email and I would like to share this with other people with similar questions or doubts on Florida Licensure:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Thank you for your e-mail regarding Foreign Medical Schools recognized by the State of Florida.

The Florida Board of Medicine does not regulate medical schools. However, we have in our possession the World Directory of Medical Schools published by the World Health Organization.

Information regarding certified medical schools may be obtained by accessing their web site at who.int/health-services-delivery/med_schools/.

If I can be of further assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me by telephone or e-mail.

Gloria Nelson
Regulatory Supervisor
Florida Board of Medicine
(850) 245-4131, x3516
(850) 488-0596 - Fax
www.doh.state.fl.us/mqa
Gloria_Nelson2@doh.state.fl.us
DOH Mission: To promote and protect the health and safety of all people in Florida through the delivery of quality public health services and promotion of health care standards.

MQA Mission: To protect and promote the health of all persons in Florida by diligently regulating health care practitioners and facilities.

Please note: Florida has a very broad public records law. Most written communications to or from state officials regarding state business are public records available to the public and media upon request. Your e-mail communications may therefore be subject to public disclosure.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Neuro4u]

This is very confusing. I was thought that if your school is not approved for clinicals in Florida, you can only do electives.

[mtt]

This is very confusing. I was thought that if your school is not approved for clinicals in Florida, you can only do electives.


clinicals - NO
residency - YES
licensure - YES

Clinicals is regulated by a separate agency. The state medical board does not regualte them. They are regulated by the Commission for Independent Education.

http://www.firn.edu/doe/cie/index.htm


Independent Education Foreign Medical School - Clerkships in Florida

http://www.firn.edu/doe/cie/clerkships.htm


If we're not approved for clinicals, we recommend you do your training outside of the state, then come back and apply for licensure. This is also true for NY and TX.

Also read all the articles in the state licensure forum.

http://www.valuemd.com/viewforum.php?f=64

Case Closed!

[FLK]

I guess by the time I finish rotations in two years, Florida will accept students for residency.
What can you tell me mtt.
Thanks

We are undergoing the Florida approval process as we speak.
However, we don't know how long it will take so please be patient.

Currently, we are not allowed to do clinicals or residency in Florida. However, we do qualify for licensure in the state as long as we do our training outside of the state. This is similar for NY and TX too but some rules differ.

We could do clinicals and residency in Florida now but if we do them while we're not approved, then we'll be ineligible for licensure. It's a weird rule but that's what we were told.

For more information regarding Florida licensure, please read:

http://www.valuemd.com/viewtopic.php?t=1049

Sincerely,

is 18 months enough time?

[stchrisrep]

...

[stchrisrep]

is 18 months enough time?

Several months ago, the admin decided not to undergo the approval process and postponed submitting their application.

[curious_george]

why?

[neilc]

is 18 months enough time?

Several months ago, the admin decided not to undergo the approval process and postponed submitting their application.

hmm....

that sounds alarming....

no grads licensed, decided against FL, not even thinking of applying to CA.

sounds like the school has yet to produce a good product (ie licensed grad) and that the admin is not very confident that the school will stand up under scrutiny.

looks at least as risky as ever!

[jsurfs]

Wow. After reading the entire conversation about Florida/Residency, it reminds me of the exact frustration and confusion I had going to a certain Caribbean school. The school I went to was also pretty new and little was known about opportunities for rotations/residency/licensure.
I spent hours, days, then weeks and months while on the island worrying and calling and asking and emailing....all in desperation..to JUST find the answers....."Can I do residency in Florida?" "Can I get licensed?"
I spent so much time away from my studies and stressed so much about it...and all it got me was more confused. There are so many agencies, boards, and people to try to get info from and everyone says different things.
Then to top it all off...just when you think your school will have reassuring answers, they simply say, "It is ultimately the students' responsibility to find out".
I had to reply to this because anyone reading this may benefit from the following:

Most of the Caribbean schools or new Foreign schools will either tell you only bits and pieces they know or just tell you the "safest" answer...or they will just tell you links of where to find the info if they don't know. And most the staff really doesn't know the specifics. The truth is that they are a new school, new meaning 1-5 years and most state boards have never even heard of the school. The more you ask and dig, the more you will get conflicting answers.
The best you can do is:
1. Contact alumni....there is noone better to ask than someone who has already gone through it.
2. If your school is so new that there are no alumni, then you should have done the research before you signed up with them.
3. Either stay with your school or transfer to a school with more graduates . Make a decision. If you stay, stop worrying and study. Passing the boards is #1. From what I've seen, anyone ECFMG certified from any school can get a residency.

Hope this helps!

[gabagoo]

We could do clinicals and residency in Florida now but if we do them while we're not approved, then we'll be ineligible for licensure. It's a weird rule but that's what we were told.


I am a St Chris student and FL residant. I plan to do all my clinicals outside of FL. However I would like to return to FL for residency AND eventual licensure.

It doesn't make sense to me that if we successfully complete a residency in FL, that we would then be inelligible for licensure in FL.

I would greatly appeciate it if someone could help me learn more about this confusing issue.

[stchrisrep]

We could do clinicals and residency in Florida now but if we do them while we're not approved, then we'll be ineligible for licensure. It's a weird rule but that's what we were told.


I am a St Chris student and FL residant. I plan to do all my clinicals outside of FL. However I would like to return to FL for residency AND eventual licensure.

It doesn't make sense to me that if we successfully complete a residency in FL, that we would then be inelligible for licensure in FL.

I would greatly appeciate it if someone could help me learn more about this confusing issue.


Please email me and I'll help you find the information. There are some mistakes above because at the time there was some miscommunications. This was a very old post and people were trying to figure things out.

[stchrisrep]

Clinicals

THE FOLLOWING ARE REQUIREMENTS FOR STUDENTS OF FOREIGN MEDICAL SCHOOLS TO DO ELECTIVE CLINICAL CLERKSHIPS IN FLORIDA:

http://www.firn.edu/doe/cie/clerkships.htm

Core (required) clerkships are not permitted in Florida Hospitals or clinics unless the foreign medical school is licensed for that purpose by the Commission for Independent Education. There must be a specific written agreement between the medical school and the accredited hospital for the specific core clerkship, in addition to many other standards that must be met.

Current rules permit students of foreign medical schools, not licensed by the Commission, to participate in an occasional ("occasional" means no more than two students in a year, and no more than two electives per student) elective clinical clerkship (not core subjects). The elective Clerkship site will notify you of the Commission's decision. The following conditions must be documented and forwarded to the Commission's Office for review.


also

I also checked our files to determine if St. Christopher's sent a request for you to do any clerkships under the Rules which allow for students at unlicensed schools to participate in elective clerkships in Florida. I have not received any applications for you. Please be advised that under the current Rules, you must have passed Step 2 of the USMLE in order to qualify for a clerkship in Florida.

I hope this information is helpful to you. Best wishes in your future educational endeavors.

Mrs. Susan Boyle



Residency and Licensure




There are many requirements necessary to gain licensure and in the end, the
Board members have ultimate authority. As far as medical school requirements
go, foreign applicants must have graduated from a medical school listed in the
WHO and have completed as least 2 years of U.S. residency. This is the one big
difference between foreign schools and U.S. schools. These graduates only need
one year of residency to apply. Canadian and Puerto Rican schools are treated
as American schools for this requirement.

I am enclosing 458.311 and 458.313 from Florida Statutes. Both address ways to
gain an unrestricted license to practice medicine in Florida.

Access our webpage at
http://www.doh.state.fl.us/mqa/medical/me_home.html Under "Applicant
information", you can take a web based test that can generally tell you if you
meet the requirements. You can also request an application and instructions at
this site. The instructions may also help answer more questions you have.

Thanks for contacting the Board of Medicine,

Bob (B.J.) Hayes, Florida Board Of Medicine
Regulatory Specialist I
4052 Bald Cypress Way, BIN C03
Tallahassee, FL 32399
Telephone #: 850-245-4131 ext. 3509
Fax #: 850-412-1294
bob_hayes@doh.state.fl.us

Also, according to section 64B8-4.018 International Medical Graduates; Qualification Requirements, your clinical cores need to be Green Book if you want to apply for licensure with 2 years of postgraduate training. If they are not Green Book, there is another clause that says you have to do an extra year of postgraduate training to qualify for a license.

See http://fac.dos.state.fl.us/faconline/chapter64.pdf for details.


Summary

Clinicals - can only do 2 electives while unapproved. Must go
through a lengthy application process, and pass Step 2.

Residency and Licensure - fine as long as you follow the rules.

[gabagoo]

Summary

Clinicals - can only do 2 electives while unapproved. Must go
through a lengthy application process, and pass Step 2.

Residency and Licensure - fine as long as you follow the rules.

Thank you St. Chris rep - That was great info! I realize the exact details of licensure requirements in every state are a hard to cover. However I am still unsure about one important issue.

Is it currently possible for a St. Chris grad to get licensed in Florida after having done a residency in Florida? Or if a St Chris grad wants to get licensed in FL they would have to do a residency in another state? Or is this a grey area that nobody is sure about?

Do you have any information about the alleged rule that if one does a residency in Florida, licensure in the state is prohibitted? Was the poster above mistaken about that?

[stchrisrep]

Is it currently possible for a St. Chris grad to get licensed in Florida after having done a residency in Florida? Or if a St Chris grad wants to get licensed in FL they would have to do a residency in another state? Or is this a grey area that nobody is sure about?

Do you have any information about the alleged rule that if one does a residency in Florida, licensure in the state is prohibitted? Was the poster above mistaken about that?

I am unaware of such a rule. It's best if you contact the board directly.

http://www.doh.state.fl.us/

Again, the comments above were incorrect and old. They were trying to figure things out as time went by.

Also, if you are a St. Chris student, please email me from your St. Chris email address. I would like to discuss something with you.

[Picard]

FL is a very complicated state paperwork-wise. There are companies out there that advertize to physicians (not just IMG) to help them with FL licensure.

SC has been talking about graduates in the process of getting FL licensure since last summer. Regardless of how complicated FL paperwork is, it does NOT take this long to get an answer. So, you may want to press the school to find out whatever happened to those graduates who were applying for FL licensure since last summer, yet no licensed grads have been reported...

P

[gabagoo]

FL is a very complicated state paperwork-wise. There are companies out there that advertize to physicians (not just IMG) to help them with FL licensure. P


Picard, I too have heard from a few US grads that it's hard to get licensed to FL after being licensed in another state. One I know gave up. I wonder if doing a residency in FL would facilitate US grads and IMG obtain licensure in FL.

If you know, please specify the companies who help physicians obtain FL licensure.

Gabagoo

[AUCMD2006]

they check all sorts of stuff. when i looked into it a while back they asked for the contracts the school had with the hospitals and college transcripts.

i've also heard conflicting rumors on florida so to be safe get a bachelor's degree in the US, do all your rotations at a hospital with a formal affiliation with the school, make sure they are all green book rotations in the rotation specialty to cover all your bases and hope for the best. since sc has their first licensed grad in LA now more states will start to know the school as more people get licensed...still doesn't answer the question of what happened to all the people who applied for licensure in the last two years though....

[You're Fired!]

................

[Picard]

Florida does take a long time to get licensed. I know a U.S. grad who has been in application process since late 2003. Now here is someone with a legitimate education, residency, boards, but it still takes time, they only meet every few months, and each time they have the right to request additional info, which in turn takes time to get to them and then more time to be reviewed.

so I can confirm that even for U.S. grads, it's not unusual to wait more than a year for Florida.

No, it's NOT "normal" to take more than a year for licensure if there are no problems. Think about it, you are saying if someone from out of state need to buget over a year to obtain a FL license, it would be a recruiting nightmare for FL's medical community.

The reality is, even US grads have licensure problems, abeit most of them personal and not related to the validity of their school. Things USMLE passage, disciplinary actions, malpractice... etc just to name a few. So, in all likelihood, this US grad is having licensure problems not relating to the legitamacy of his medical school. An example is that California requires family practice rotation for licensure, regardless of where you went to med school. Even Harvard graduates who have not done family practice rotation will have licensure problems in California, and will face delays until he/she completes FP rotation. So yes, US grads do face licensing delays/problems as well. The difference is, US schools are very upfront with their students about licensing issues they may face, where as many offshore schools are not...

The bottom line is, there may be simply explanations for graduates from any school facing licensing delays and problems. Schools are involved intimately in the licensure process and should be aware of them. And schools should openly discuss licensing issues faced by their graduates so that underclassmates can plan accordingly.

P

[bts4202]

I was trying not to say anything because it is not my buissness to tell, but picard just won't let it go. The individual who applied to Fl and Tn and others was asked for more information from the places he has been at during residency including Mayo and Cleveland clinic. He was NOT discussed in any Board meetings, just told that whatever info it is needs to be there for his file to be complete. This person has been very busy in surgery and has had too much to do to deal with getting the info together. He does not need the license to continue his residency so he does not care if it is delayed. It makes no difference to him, although we all care a lot. So, he has not been denied, he has not even been discussed. He has intentionally delayed his application out of laziness.

I found this out a couple weeks ago when I emailed and pressed him on the issue.

However, I have also been told that there are 3 other licensed grads in other states across teh US. I am trying to confirm that information though.

[Picard]

I was trying not to say anything because it is not my buissness to tell, but picard just won't let it go. The individual who applied to Fl and Tn and others was asked for more information from the places he has been at during residency including Mayo and Cleveland clinic. He was NOT discussed in any Board meetings, just told that whatever info it is needs to be there for his file to be complete. This person has been very busy in surgery and has had too much to do to deal with getting the info together. He does not need the license to continue his residency so he does not care if it is delayed. It makes no difference to him, although we all care a lot. So, he has not been denied, he has not even been discussed. He has intentionally delayed his application out of laziness.

I found this out a couple weeks ago when I emailed and pressed him on the issue.


Umm, lazy about licensing paperwork. Not very logical. I was trying to give SC folks a chance to discuss the recent TN law change that has prevented licensure for graduates from offshore schools with no external US approval... evident by the denial of Spartan grad in TN recently. I guess that's too much to discuss.

Most medical boards purge incomplete applications in one year. Being "lazy" about paperwork simply defies logic. If all they want is residency paperwork, all it would take is a request from the resident to the program to submit paperwork... you can do it over lunch time... more likely there is something more...

P