Alternate book to the "Bates" book for PD

[restlesseye]

i feel the english visiting profs we get have far superior PD skill than what Barbara Bates has to offer with her text book. most of them said they never used Bates at all.

is there a better or different alternative to the bates book? it really lacks in many areas.

[MitchDC]

Take a look at Clinical Examination by Owen Epstein.

-M

i feel the english visiting profs we get have far superior PD skill than what Barbara Bates has to offer with her text book. most of them said they never used Bates at all.

is there a better or different alternative to the bates book? it really lacks in many areas.

[helpfulgrad]

I never used the book by epstein so I can't compare it, but Mosby's guide to physical examination was pretty good.

[BACK2REALITY]

to be a competent physician, with decent clinical skills, you should avoid BATES...i have read the book, it is not worth the paper its written on, i dont even think they use that in nursing schools...absolute waste! just my opinion.

[restlesseye]

to be a competent physician, with decent clinical skills, you should avoid BATES...i have read the book, it is not worth the paper its written on, i dont even think they use that in nursing schools...absolute waste! just my opinion.

too funny. yeah. i sold my copy this term. sold my "Mini-Bates" and my "Master-Bates"

[pitstar]

to be a competent physician, with decent clinical skills, you should avoid BATES...i have read the book, it is not worth the paper its written on, i dont even think they use that in nursing schools...absolute waste! just my opinion.

Not worthy..IMO Bates is still the standard. I know the top Med School in the World (U of T) still uses it. Cheers from the UK and Varna.

P.S. I will be starting a site for Varna and am the moderator.

[drnick07]

If Bates is so good, why is it that they teach us maneuvers and tests in PD that aren't in the book? I keep baby-bates around just in case i run out of toilet paper. IMO, PD is one of the worst-taught classes at SGU. Maybe that is why they stress going over to the UK to do more hands-on diagnosis? God save the Queen! All that being said, we continue to get reports that our PD skills are better than some of our US counterparts. I hear that is easy to see on the Prague selective. Sorry i couldn't help you out restlesseye.

[restlesseye]

If Bates is so good, why is it that they teach us maneuvers and tests in PD that aren't in the book? I keep baby-bates around just in case i run out of toilet paper. IMO, PD is one of the worst-taught classes at SGU. Maybe that is why they stress going over to the UK to do more hands-on diagnosis? God save the Queen! All that being said, we continue to get reports that our PD skills are better than some of our US counterparts. I hear that is easy to see on the Prague selective. Sorry i couldn't help you out restlesseye.

i agree with you dr.nick. reason why i started this thread is because im really really really disappointed with what we learn in PD and Barbara Bates RN doesnt help out at all.

we had an orthopod rotation a few weeks ago with a gentleman with septic arthritis. the doc was laughing at us while we feebly tried to demonstrate the ballotment test and balloon test. the 5 of us were wrong and standing around looking stupid around the patient. these maneuvers are not described anywhere in bates and so we have to take the word of the clinical skills people. worst of all they didnt know how to teach it to us.

i will look for the epstein book when i get back

[stephew]

I never used the book by epstein so I can't compare it, but Mosby's guide to physical examination was pretty good.swartz? I think. From mt sinai. there is one i have on the art and sci of PD. its great but really too poofy i think for basic PD

[restlesseye]

PD should be an art not a procedure in a manual. there should be rhyme and reason for what you are doing. i've seen some amazing doctors who are gifted in healing. everything from how they speak and examine the patient visibly makes the patient feel a lot better. reanimating an ill person with my voice is a skill i wish to acquire.

im going to check these books out from the library when i get home next month. thanks again for the suggestions.

[stephew]

it is an art. highly recommend going to the uk. great experience in the art of diagnosis in that country.

[restlesseye]

i just had a chance to look at the epstein book in the library. WOW is it a great book. there was an old tattered copy from the 90's, i wonder why we dont use it here in vinnies.

it gives differentials and explanations to diags which the bates book appears to lack. lots of physiology mixed in and the diagrams are really good.

i will definitely invest in this book when i get back home.

[Roti Man]

Having done the British Rotation (and being 1 of the 5 out of 40 that passed the 1st UK side exam way back in 1995 eek!)....I can only recommend one book: Macleod's Clinical Examination http://www.intl.elsevierhealth.com/catalogue/title.cfm?ISBN=0443074046

A good clean read...almost fun...

[Naveenanirada]

Hey Roti man, I concurry to that. :D
Solid book,my cousin , who practices in Essex, passed me down a old 6th edition, that he got from some else.

Got to go, I am hungry right now........for some hot rotis & some chicken curry.........

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