Spartan has grown in leaps & bounds- A live testimony

[DrTimi]

Hey, prospective students, I am a living testimony to the fact that Spartan has grown in leaps and bounds. In my opinion, there's not a "more appropriate" choice for a foreign medical school.PERIOD.

[dt]

Please spend some time to elaborate. I would like to know more. But you are making a blanket statement. Could you provide more details why you think Spartan has grown leaps and bounds? And in what sense?

Also, why is there not a "more appropriate" choice? What is your point of reference?

I notice the above was your first post. Could you provide some background about yourself? Not the indepth detail, but an general overview so that I have some basis to judge your statements.

Us prospective students are trying to make a critical choice and appreciate any info you could provide.


dt

[Kirst]

Would you care to elaborate? I would appreciate some details...

[DrTimi]

Firstly, I think that the fact that you're even interested in finding out about spartan by yourself is a quantum leap on your path, because a whole lot of people base their descisions and judgements on "hear-say". Anyways, as far as spartan having grown in 'leaps and bounds' is concerned (in my opinion), what would you say about a school that is an "ever-increasing" phenomenon.- evidence? A new laboratory (pathology and Gross anatomy), current 3-D anatomy simulation programs- accessible to all students via the newly installed school network, point-blank empahasis on USMLE tested material, Approval for Federal loans- indicating a Dept. of Education approval of the school...............Listen, If the Dept. of education can reverse a decision taken on Spartan University (only about 5 years back), then there must have been a major leap forward by Spartan. 'cos for re-approval, the "once bitten, twice shy" factor must have contributed to slowing down any chances of re-approval- yet in only 5 years, Spartan is back- bigger and better.
Finally, as far as there not being a "more appropriate" choice (in my opinion), My believe of all Carribean medical schools is - "No major personal effort, no success". I say this b'cos even with US medschools, it's "No personal effort, no success". the only difference being the 'MAJOR' aspect of the personal effort. In thinking along these lines, why should I pay 3 times as much to attend any other school when I still have to put in a 'MAJOR' effort as far as my success is concerned. I hear that history has it that some Spartan graduates have aced the boards with phenomenal scores (>90's). this being the case, I don't know about you, but I'd rather pay 3 times less to attend medschool, put in a 'major' effort at ace-ing my certifying exams, and end up like other Spartan graaduates in Good residency programs, instead of having the same final destination of a good residency program but being three times as much in debt. get it?- infact, talking again about the 'major' aspect of preparation every Carribean Medschool graduate has to put in, if some folks are so 'money-spending-crazy' why not save off the xtra amount that would have been spent attending a school other than Spartan to pay for Material that would help in ace-ing the boards- (Kaplan, study guides e.t.c) and still have pocket change afterwards.
LET'S FACE IT. SPARTAN IS THE ONLY SENSIBLE CARRIBEAN CHOICE. :D

[emerson24]

Well dude, I couldn't agree with you more. You seem pretty convinced of your opinion. Thought you may have been a "promoter" at first :lol:
Yeah, another soon to be entering student and I were chatting about the debt owed at some of the colleges. She heard of some people owing close to 300K after SGU. I can see it. 10500 a semester X 11 semesters.
Then you have Housing and Food. Along with all the misc fees, plane tickets, etc, I can see it. Take the 8% interest on that , 24,000. Good Lord. They charge more than some US schools. As my friend put it so nicely, I don't think they are going to look at the transcripts and say, OH LOOK, they went to the HARVARD of the Carribean. Certainly SGU and the TOP 3 which I'm getting tired of hearing, may have better equipment and structural buildings, but a book is a book and as you put it, its all about the effort. Some people just dont' belong in med school and it's apparent by the drop out fail rate. The carribean gives you a chance. Do you think you can do it. Thats the question. They give you that chance, no differently than a pro team gives walk ons the opportunity. And Because not every situation is the same, I think thats great that we all have the opportunity. It's just AWESOME! However, there are those who just aren't cut out for it.

I can tell you this, 2 cadavers vs. 8, a imaging system from 1990 vx 2003, old paint vx new paint, 3500$ vs 10500, i'm coming home with a MD license. Thats NON-NEGOTIABLE. And if for some reason I don't, it won't be for lack of trying, and certainly not because I didn't have 8 cadavers instead of 2 or whatever rumor has it. If you want it, you go out and you get it. To pay the absurd amount that some of these schools want is a joke. And as for being on a island and in the third world etc etc that everyone wants to complain about. Well, I may be wrong and eat my words when I get there, but I like the idea of it. In the trenches, me and the books, no distractions (as I see them), just doing it. I like the idea of being the underdog in adverse conditions. Cause in the end, who had to work harder ? Me or the joker in the states. I say that with no disrespect, and it may not be a great comparison because i certainly don't want to minimize any one else's desires, but point being, I have spent countless hours like most in here researching on if the carribean is legitimate at first. Then to find what school to go to, then to try and figure out what is true or not about what school(s). The ups and downs that i have experienced is unreal. You get confident and excited all to have it taken away a post later. So, even feeling like you are making the best decision, you still go to the island with reservation. Then you get there, and i'm only speculating by everyones comment, you don't have what you do in the states. You are in a bit of a disadvantage in numerous ways. So I ask, beyond all we have to do before we all get in, and the little inconsistancies in school (such as being a spartan student and from what i hear, doing everything yourself re: paperwork etc) and then having to learn the same as the UW schools, who worked harder ? I think the answer is apparent.

Well, thats my two cents for whatever its worth. By the way, are you a student now or were ?

[anotherstudent]

with all that wonder hype that you say. that's why so many students transfer out to go to cashu and st. chris. i know of 20 people who recently transfer'd out. heck, i transfer'd out last tri. spartna is a ghost town now, not that many students because they suck. they ain't gonna get no stafford loan either. they just say that to keep you suckers from leaving the school. that's prpbably why they increased the tuition after all these years because they don't have that many students like they used to. the reason i left becaues they kept on screwing up my financial aid. leaps and bounds, yea i would say being that they started in a restaurant/bar in vieux fort and now they have there own buillllding. thoses thhat go to spartan you will be sorry in the end. peace out.

R.

[dt]

with all that wonder hype that you say. that's why so many students transfer out to go to cashu and st. chris. i know of 20 people who recently transfer'd out. heck, i transfer'd out last tri. spartna is a ghost town now, not that many students because they suck. they ain't gonna get no stafford loan either. they just say that to keep you suckers from leaving the school. that's prpbably why they increased the tuition after all these years because they don't have that many students like they used to. the reason i left becaues they kept on screwing up my financial aid. leaps and bounds, yea i would say being that they started in a restaurant/bar in vieux fort and now they have there own buillllding. thoses thhat go to spartan you will be sorry in the end. peace out.

R.


Just curious...

Do you know why the 20 students left?

Did your credit problem you mentioned elsewhere in valuemd affected your financial aid at Spartan?



dt.

[emerson24]

I don't call it wonder hype, i call it being optimistic and having a good attitude. I never said I expect much, just a chance. Why is it that all these other people have succeded ? Could the increase in tuition be due to the new building they built with accessories ?

With all the people transferring out, I would think more would post in the forum, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

As for student loans and your troubles, I remember being in a medical program several years ago, my loans came without a hitch, some others got "yanked" around :lol: :x :roll: So, who's fault is it ? Perhaps its just one of those things, unfortunately it was you ? Perhaps it will be me and I'll be in here venting , but as of now, I just see one perhaps two with that other TT or YY whatever it is, who has posted really negative things. Again would think there would be a lot more to validate this. For one, if i get hosed, I'll be sharing my story, as I"m sure others will.

Peace...

[anotherstudent]

I don't know why exactly the other students left, i jjust know that they pissed off after 2 tri. yea my credit pproblem did affect my financial aid at spartn, they never sent in my deferment paper while i was on the island and my loan defaulted.

[anotherstudent]

im not telling you not to go spartan. i hope you don't get hosed. i'm just telling you that they suck real bad.

[mindprobe]

I am reading all of these posts from many people who have not even seen the island of St. Lucia, nor have they seen the school. I went to Spartan with all the positivity that you all seem to harbor on this site, and was disappointed and regretful of my decision to attend there.

It is TRUE that student effort is the primary determinant of success in any medical school, but you do have certain advantages if you attend a recognized school with a known tradition. Such schools (St. George's, AUC and Ross) are usually considered nearly equivalent to US schools, and a student seriously considering Spartan should do some intense probing in this regard.

AUC provides Kaplan-like review in the 5th semester, so students don't have to take the class separately when they return to the US. And believe me, the Kaplan review is nearly required to pass the Step after spending 4 trimesters at Spartan because of the deficiencies in teaching. Also, at AUC the clerkship fees are included with the tuition; at Spartan you may have to set up your own clerkships and pay as much as $350 per week to attend. You pay this $350 per week, yes, but then you ALSO have to pay the Spartan tuition. Spartan tuition was recently raised to $3500. That really adds up when you are not working.

AUC, Ross and St. George's have VERITABLE approval for Stafford Loans. At Spartan, this approval is not set in stone. I would rather go to a place where there is no doubt of this important aspect of medical education.

For those of you who are mature, dedicated and serious students: you will be frustrated and disappointed by attending Spartan because most of the students should not even be in medical school...ANYWHERE. If you are a diligent student you will feel out of place and disillusioned with most of your classmates as they are incapable of comprehending even the most basic concepts. For those of you who don't know, medical school is like a "staircase of learning"; you must take basic concepts from one class to another. For example, Physiology can be directly related to Anatomy and Biochemistry. Students at Spartan tend not to be able to carry these concepts from one class to another, and that leaves you exasperated at best. Again, this is due to the fact that Spartan has virtually no guidelines for accepting students (I have never heard of someone being rejected from Spartan); in fact, Spartan is known for accepting many of the students who were not successful ("flunked out" to use the vernacular) at the Big Three.

My intention in writing this is not to engage in Spartan-bashing. I am stating the facts based on my past experiences. Please evaluate your decision about medical school carefully as it will effect the rest of your life.

[dt]

I am reading all of these posts from many people who have not even seen the island of St. Lucia, nor have they seen the school. I went to Spartan with all the positivity that you all seem to harbor on this site, and was disappointed and regretful of my decision to attend there.

It is TRUE that student effort is the primary determinant of success in any medical school, but you do have certain advantages if you attend a recognized school with a known tradition. Such schools (St. George's, AUC and Ross) are usually considered nearly equivalent to US schools, and a student seriously considering Spartan should do some intense probing in this regard.

AUC provides Kaplan-like review in the 5th semester, so students don't have to take the class separately when they return to the US. And believe me, the Kaplan review is nearly required to pass the Step after spending 4 trimesters at Spartan because of the deficiencies in teaching. Also, at AUC the clerkship fees are included with the tuition; at Spartan you may have to set up your own clerkships and pay as much as $350 per week to attend. You pay this $350 per week, yes, but then you ALSO have to pay the Spartan tuition. Spartan tuition was recently raised to $3500. That really adds up when you are not working.

AUC, Ross and St. George's have VERITABLE approval for Stafford Loans. At Spartan, this approval is not set in stone. I would rather go to a place where there is no doubt of this important aspect of medical education.

For those of you who are mature, dedicated and serious students: you will be frustrated and disappointed by attending Spartan because most of the students should not even be in medical school...ANYWHERE. If you are a diligent student you will feel out of place and disillusioned with most of your classmates as they are incapable of comprehending even the most basic concepts. For those of you who don't know, medical school is like a "staircase of learning"; you must take basic concepts from one class to another. For example, Physiology can be directly related to Anatomy and Biochemistry. Students at Spartan tend not to be able to carry these concepts from one class to another, and that leaves you exasperated at best. Again, this is due to the fact that Spartan has virtually no guidelines for accepting students (I have never heard of someone being rejected from Spartan); in fact, Spartan is known for accepting many of the students who were not successful ("flunked out" to use the vernacular) at the Big Three.

My intention in writing this is not to engage in Spartan-bashing. I am stating the facts based on my past experiences. Please evaluate your decision about medical school carefully as it will effect the rest of your life.


Hello mindprobe,

In this post you make it sound like you were once a student at Spartan. So, if I read your post correctly, you are no longer a student at Spartan.

Could you tell me when did you attend Spartan? I am curious to know how recent your impression of Spartan is.

And, in your very first post on valuemd 10 days eariler, you mentioned research on Spartan's Stafford loan. Why would the loan matter if you are not attending or planning to attend Spartan?

Also, I do not understand what you mean by "VERITABLE". I thought an approval is either a yes-or-no (or a black-or-white) situation. Can you expand on what you mean, and where you obtained your info?


Thanks,

dt

[dt]

edited. removed my additional questions because they really do not matter in the long run. guess this is a useless post (number 198) now!

[microphage]

edited. removed my additional questions because they really do not matter in the long run. guess this is a useless post (number 198) now!

I've got an useless poster gunning for me. Now where's that ban button..... :lol:






Damn, I've got no ban button. :evil:

[truthfinder]

mindprobe,

You might be able to raise some doubts in the minds of prospectives who have never been to St. Lucia, but your misleading statements don't work with people like me who have actually been there. I especially love when people try to discredit Spartan based on cost??? That's always a losing battle because any way you look at it, Spartan is the least expensive established medical school PERIOD!!

AUC provides Kaplan-like review in the 5th semester, so students don't have to take the class separately when they return to the US. And believe me, the Kaplan review is nearly required to pass the Step after spending 4 trimesters at Spartan because of the deficiencies in teaching.

Lets analyze this. Would you rather take a "Kaplan-like" review and spend an extra semester in a foreign country for ALOT more money, or would you rather spend ALOT less money on a real Kaplan course in the U.S.A.?

Also, the review course is required for most students of offshore med schools to do well. Most other schools just happen to make it part of the cirriculum. Even after those students finish their review courses in their schools, they're still not guarenteed to pass (no school has 100% pass rate). I'll admit that many Spartan students that elect not to take a review course might do poorly on Step 1. But the vast majority (over 90% in my experience) pass Step 1 on first attempt after taking a review course. So when Spartan students decide to take a review course like most other foreign med students, in my experience they tend to have similar pass rates as the "Big 3". Just like in other schools, a review course, whether or not it's part of the school program, greatly influences your scores. And a "real" U.S. Kaplan course is known to be the best in this regard.

Also, at AUC the clerkship fees are included with the tuition; at Spartan you may have to set up your own clerkships and pay as much as $350 per week to attend. You pay this $350 per week, yes, but then you ALSO have to pay the Spartan tuition.

At least you admit that the clerkships "may" be set up by the students, which correctly implies that they are not usually unless the students wish to use that route. You also admit that the additional payments can be "as much as $350 per week", which correctly implies that it is usually much less than this (usually free).

But let's analyze further. First of all, in my experience, once a student passes Step 1, the school sets up most of the clinicals at U.S. ACGME hospitals for no additional costs (some chose to set up themselves to be at a specific location and paid $150 extra per week). I've never even heard of a site being as much as $350, so I'd like to know where this mysterious site is located. But for the sake of arguement, lets pretend like a student had to pay this much extra. THEY WOULD STILL END UP SPENDING LESS than any of the "Big 3" and less than most, if not all, other established schools. So again, Spartan is the least expensive established medical school PERIOD!!

AUC, Ross and St. George's have VERITABLE approval for Stafford Loans. At Spartan, this approval is not set in stone. I would rather go to a place where there is no doubt of this important aspect of medical education.

I agree that Federal Staffords re-approval at Spartan are not yet "set in stone". But borrowing >$9000 per semester with low-interest Staffords vs $3500 with higher interest private loans (just based on tuition alone) undisputably favors Spartan economically, unless you have an interest rate of >200% :roll: Besides, I'd rather wait a few months until the approval is offically in effect to argue this point further (wonder what you'd say then?)

My intention in writing this is not to engage in Spartan-bashing. I am stating the facts based on my past experiences.

First I think that you are "Spartan-bashing", but that's just my opinion. But maybe I'm wrong so instead decided to dispute your statements. At least it is done more respectably than some others have done. But I strongly disagree with the second sentence. What are your experiences? Did you go to Spartan? Do you now go to Spartan? How far along did you get? Have you gone through clinicals? But most importantly is that you are not "stating the facts"! Rather you are stating your OPINION. You are entitled to your own opinion, but you are not entitled to distort the facts. There is a big difference.

Please evaluate your decision about medical school carefully as it will effect the rest of your life.

I agree that everyone should evaluate their decision about medical school carefully, regardless of which school they are considering. But I think that it will only effect a few years of your life in most cases because we all end up at the same place in the end. It's just a matter of how we chose to get there. So look at what seems to be important to you as an individual and than find the right school that matches those needs. For some it's Spartan and for others it might be something else. If you don't do your research, you might end up going somewhere that is not a good match for you. This usually just means that you'll be unhappy for a couple of years, but if you're determined, you'll make it thru to the same destination.

I also agree with what you said about Spartan's admissions standards being too easy and affecting the quality of the students. However, I also think that you hugely exaggerated this point. People do get denied at Spartan and there are currently many very capable students attending the school. To say otherwise is an insult to the many qualified students who are currently busting their behinds to reach their goals.

I didn't mean to imply above that Spartan is a better choice that any other school, particularly the "Big 3". In fact, I think that a good student can make it at most of the choices out there, and the "Big 3" offer many benefits which are important for many prospectives. I was just arguing the point that Spartan is less expensive. If money wasn't an issue, I would likely have picked another school and maybe had an easier path. But money was an issue for me and so I chose Spartan without regrets and understandably accepted the downfalls. Spartan has its ups and downs, just like any other school. But in the end, I'm in the same position that I would have been had I gone to another school, which is an M.D. doing a residency in the U.S.A. So if money is not an issue, than by all means look at other options because there are many good ones out there. But if it is, than it's good to know that Spartan can get you to the same place at an affordable price. Don't let negative people discourage you from reaching your goals. Best of luck to all regardless of which school you decide to attend.

[emerson24]

I am reading all of these posts from many people who have not even seen the island of St. Lucia, nor have they seen the school. I went to Spartan with all the positivity that you all seem to harbor on this site, and was disappointed and regretful of my decision to attend there..

I seriously doubt I'm going to leave their with a great experience. I think you confuse optimism with reality. I am optimistic that I will make the best of it, and at the same time, use my experience to guide me. Let's look at the facts - I have completed a very rigorous PA program, not much different, if at all, from med school other than length. This is not foriegn territory. I understand that it is a third world and I will not have the luxeries. In my outlook, I will leave with an even greater appreciation of life and the "luxuries" that we have. Life to me is about experiencing, whether it is good OR BAD. Not all bad things are bad. You see, I have already accepted the fact that I may VERY well come back in one or two semesters. I may decide to be a PA for the rest of my life. I may decide to transfer. Who knows where I may be, but this is something new, and I like new things. They are learning opportunities and opportunities to meet other people from different walks of life. Whatever happens, I will be more "experienced". And it has nothing to do with "losing" money or becoming more in debt than I already am. There is SO much more to this journey than meets the eye. It's not just ABOUT obtaining a DEGREE. It's about living, and living life to the depths of my understanding it to be.

It is TRUE that student effort is the primary determinant of success in any medical school, but you do have certain advantages if you attend a recognized school with a known tradition. Such schools (St. George's, AUC and Ross) are usually considered nearly equivalent to US schools, and a student seriously considering Spartan should do some intense probing in this regard.. The tope 3 being nearly equal ? Come on now. I'll tell you what. Go look at the top residencies and tell me how many of ANY crib schools are in the program.

AUC provides a Kaplan-like review in the 5th semester, so students don't have to take the class separately when they return to the US. And believe me, the review is nearly required to pass the Step after spending 4 trimesters at Spartan because of the deficiencies in teaching. Also, at AUC the clerkship fees are included with the tuition; at Spartan you may have to set up your own clerkships and pay as much as $350 per week to attend. You pay this $350 per week, yes, but then you ALSO have to pay the Spartan tuition. Spartan tuition was recently raised to $3500. That really adds up when you are not working..

You say that the 4th is required to pass the step 1 after Spartan, yet, all the other schools are REQUIRED to take it. Sooooooo, how do they differ then ? I guess we all are deficient than. Even if I got the best education in the US, i would still take the review. Point irrelavent.

As for setting up and paying, this is not true. You can set them up without paying, and I know that for fact. Unless spartan is going to pull a "suprise, Hey you owe us for the rotation you set up", I will no be paying. I will not disclose anymore about that. Also, you're fee of 350 per week is wrong. I know some place that only charges 375 for 4 weeks. And this is all I'm going to say.

You say I ALSO have to pay spartan tuition. GOD #$($ where in the hell do they get off charging me TUITION. Wow, thanks for being so informative! I didn't REALIZE that I had to pay tuitions TOO!! And to think that they RAISED it tooooooo 3500 :cry: Thaaaaats what....7000 :?: less than SGU. Ok. Thanks. :roll: I understand what 3500 bucks gets me.


AUC, Ross and St. George's have VERITABLE approval for Stafford Loans. At Spartan, this approval is not set in stone. I would rather go to a place where there is no doubt of this important aspect of medical education. . I have talked with someone from the Stafford office from Suntrust bank. They told me that they were working with spartan. Not sure whatelse needs to be carved in stone.

For those of you who are mature, dedicated and serious students: you will be frustrated and disappointed by attending Spartan because most of the students should not even be in medical school...ANYWHERE. If you are a diligent student you will feel out of place and disillusioned with most of your classmates as they are incapable of comprehending even the most basic concepts. For those of you who don't know, medical school is like a "staircase of learning"; you must take basic concepts from one class to another. For example, Physiology can be directly related to Anatomy and Biochemistry. Students at Spartan tend not to be able to carry these concepts from one class to another, and that leaves you exasperated at best. Again, this is due to the fact that Spartan has virtually no guidelines for accepting students (I have never heard of someone being rejected from Spartan); in fact, Spartan is known for accepting many of the students who were not successful ("flunked out" to use the vernacular) at the Big Three..

Well, I don't learn effectively in the classroom setting. That's not me. I learn more on my own. So, I"m sure as in PA school I will do whatever needs to be done. I don't think the teachers are absolutely incompetent that they can't explain something. That's all I need. As for people saying none could pass the boards. Well, who knows why - language barriers, poor test takers, there were rumors at one point they gave FMG's harder tests, whatever. Point being, you can have a great clinician who can't teach to save his life, and the other way around. Now, I'm not saying their quality, but what I am saying is that before I go passing judgement myself, I'm going to find OUT for myself.

You say that " medical school is like a "staircase of learning"; you must take basic concepts from one class to another. For example, Physiology can be directly related to Anatomy and Biochemistry. Students at Spartan tend not to be able to carry these concepts from one class to another, and that leaves you exasperated at best. Again, this is due to the fact that Spartan has virtually no guidelines for accepting students .

How does this pertain to me ? Because they can't teach me the fundamentals ? That's why I will read the book. The old adage goes, you can't learn medicne from a book. I'm at the school to learn basics. I think anyone if smart enough can teach themselves the basics. What you can't teach yourself is the clinical aspect. And you will hear over and over, that when people get out in clinicals they feel unprepared. Of course you do! Sure it helps to have a better teacher, but I don't think it's going to break me.

My intention in writing this is not to engage in Spartan-bashing. I am stating the facts based on my past experiences. Please evaluate your decision about medical school carefully as it will effect the rest of your life.[/quote]

No, your not bashing, but you come in here with 2 previous posts before this one. This new site has been up and running for over 2 months now, atleast since I have been here, perhaps longer. Where were you all that time ? If I had or IF I HAVE a bad experience at spartan and leave for reasons, I WILL be on here telling people the experience.

Why is it that you have just come out of no where to help us now ? Where were you ? You see, if I come in here in two months and say what you have, I will have credibility, becaues you can read my post from day one and obviously having no clue as to schools in the crib. I even considered Eustatius at one point. You on the other hand come here and spew this garbage. Why garbage ? Because you have no credibility. You say you attended but only NOW do you want to "help" other people, including me. For all I know, you're yy or diandra or whoever. Also, I PM'd you one time and you didn't respond. So why not if you are so willing to help me ? If anyone is going to say what spartan is or isn't, it should be ME! Not some person with 3 posts who comes out of the blue.

Also, I may very well be in here saying how bad it was, but that won't make me wrong for my decision. I go understanding it may be bad. I CHOSE this route. Once again, you are looking at it from very different eyes. Our purpose in life is far different.

Peace

PS I would like for you to address DT's post

[dt]

edited. removed my additional questions because they really do not matter in the long run. guess this is a useless post (number 198) now!

I've got an useless poster gunning for me. Now where's that ban button..... :lol:






Damn, I've got no ban button. :evil:


Oh Master, never in my wildest dream can I ever expect to surpass you in uselessness.

:(


(Another useless post, number 199)

[Kirst]

LoL I can see a forum wh0re club forming with dt, microphage, and emerson. Oh Oh pick me, pick me too!

[microphage]

LoL I can see a forum wh0re club forming with dt, microphage, and emerson. Oh Oh pick me, pick me too!

Is Spartan the school of forum wh0res?

You've got 3 of them right here.....

[emerson24]

LoL I can see a forum wh0re club forming with dt, microphage, and emerson. Oh Oh pick me, pick me too!

Is Spartan the school of forum wh0res?

You've got 3 of them right here.....

I'll accept this nomination on behalf of Spartan.....the Cheapskate Wh0res of the Caribbean :P

[dt]

LoL I can see a forum wh0re club forming with dt, microphage, and emerson. Oh Oh pick me, pick me too!

Is Spartan the school of forum wh0res?

You've got 3 of them right here.....

I'll accept this nomination on behalf of Spartan.....the Cheapskate Wh0res of the Caribbean :P

...and loving it!

[Kirst]

Since all four members of our club is here, going off topic as usual-

What's happening with everyone? I know that Chris and I are heading out to St. Lucia with a full set of armor this September, and I believe microphage won his million dollars at AUC. How is your research coming along, dt? After 200 some posts, any decisions?

[mindprobe]

To all:

I regret that you all have misinterpreted my post. I was stating what my own experiences were at Spartan. Let me make a few points:

1) I have a friend who is going into clerkship in another state because this person cannot afford to pay the $350 fee per week at the one Spartan-affiliated hospital in their state of residence. Please understand that while you are paying tuition to Spartan during clerkship, you are also paying the fee directly to the hospital you are rotating in, plus maintenance (room & board). Then you also must consider that you might have to do clerkship in more than one hospital in more than one state (or even Juarez, Mexico). That includes plane tickets also. It may come out to be less money, yes. Make your own judgement.

2) St. Lucia is very third world. There are virtually no conveniences of home (just to let you know, there is only ONE American restaurant on the part of the island where the school is, and that is KFC; most students hate the food in Vieux Fort). The restaurants that are in Vieux Fort are not truly regulated by a governing body (like how restaurants are inspected in the US), and many are mere shacks that have a stove with people cooking and selling their wares with flies and stray dogs loitering about. When it rains, there is the most pungent odor of cow dung in the air that it makes you want to puke. There are two grocery stores, neither of which carries alot of what Americans are used to (or they do at exorbitant prices). Another thing, toiletries are outrageously expensive, so take your own if you decide to attend Spartan.

3) You are entilted to disregard all of what I am saying. I am merely stating what I experienced. Take it or leave it. I have attended Spartan and have done well. You neophytes should just be informed about all of the drawbacks prior to attending. I agree that there are successful MDs out there who attended Spartan. Some of these very same MDs send their CHILDREN to Spartan. Brothers and sisters have attended Spartan at the same time. Husbands and wives have attended at the same time. Yes, you can become a doctor by attending Spartan. I was merely trying to make sure that people take everything into account before attending and being disappointed.

4) As for the Step 1, it is designed to be a challenging exam no matter where you come from. I was merely stating that a student might be better prepared for it by attending a school more equipped to teach you what you need to know....a school with qualified professors who give challenging USMLE double and triple jump questions on exams after teaching material that they have specialized in. In most classes, you will NOT get that at Spartan. AUC has the review in the fifth semester along with purely clinical classes. St. George's has a similar program I believe, as do other schools. I know that money is outrageous for St. George's, so I wouldn't really consider that as a valid option. I am not sure where one poster got their information about 90% of students from Spartan taking Kaplan and subsequently passing the Step on the first try. I know the pass rate to be about 20% at best; Kaplan or no Kaplan. I also know of students who have finished their clerkships and cannot go into residency because they have passed neither Step 1 nor Step 2, and yes, they took Kaplan.

Overall, make your own decisions. Just take into account what I have said prior to arriving in St. Lucia.

[dt]

Thanks mindprobe. I appreciate your comments.

Is it possible for you to help us further by giving us potential students more info?

What you said about toiletries, food, groceries is helpful. Do you have any more advice you could provide? Like where one can get fresh fruits and vegetables? Miscellanous household items, clothing, etc...

And since passing the USMLE is paramount for all students, could you tell us how/what you did to pass the Steps? What were your experiences with clinicals? How easy/difficult was it for you to obtain residency?


dt

[microphage]

Since all four members of our club is here, going off topic as usual-

What's happening with everyone? I know that Chris and I are heading out to St. Lucia with a full set of armor this September, and I believe microphage won his million dollars at AUC. How is your research coming along, dt? After 200 some posts, any decisions?

Yeah, dt's got me there. It was after about 160 posts before I got accepted into AUC and chose AUC as my pick. So what's your decision?

[Kirst]

1) I have a friend who is going into clerkship in another state because this person cannot afford to pay the $350 fee per week at the one Spartan-affiliated hospital in their state of residence.

mindprobe, if your friend was able to find free clerkships, that is a great news.

Please understand that while you are paying tuition to Spartan during clerkship, you are also paying the fee directly to the hospital you are rotating in, plus maintenance (room & board). Then you also must consider that you might have to do clerkship in more than one hospital in more than one state (or even Juarez, Mexico). That includes plane tickets also. It may come out to be less money, yes.

Would you please let us know of a Caribbean school that provides room & board and transportation during clinicals? I certainly haven't heard of one. $3550x5 tuition + $0~$350x80 hospital fee = $17750~$45475 for 5 semesters of clinicals. Still works out cheaper than Big3, and the latter figure is assuming the most expensive scenario. Like you said yourself, many students I corresponded with were able to obtain free or cheaper clinicals.

2) St. Lucia is very third world. There are virtually no conveniences of home

I don't know what gave you the impression that living in St. Lucia will be luxurious in the first place. Regardless, of all the islands in the Caribbeans, St. Lucia would certainly be one of the 'better' places to study- yes, study. It's a matter of perspective I suppose, I choose to be happy about the fact that there are at least beaches and KFC in St. Lucia than be upset that there are no wal-marts and disneyland in St. Lucia.

I have attended Spartan and have done well. I was merely trying to make sure that people take everything into account before attending and being disappointed.

That is absolutely wonderful, congrats! Thanks for your input on the forum, it's not going unappreciated. I look forward to you sharing your experiences at Spartan as to how you and your friends went about in accomplishing your said achievements at a challenging institution like Spartan.

4) I was merely stating that a student might be better prepared for it by attending a school more equipped to teach you what you need to know...

I agree, but money is a BIG issue for most students considering Spartan. No one said saving money is easy, you get what you pay for. I'm aware that I'll have to suck it up and work harder to make it through at Spartan, just to keep the debt figures down.


It'll be good to see you around on this forum for prospect students with specific questions that require first hand experience.

Cheers,
Kirsten

[emerson24]

It'll be good to see you around on this forum for prospect students with specific questions that require first hand experience.

Cheers,
Kirsten

Well I'm not hoppin on that bandwagon just yet. I'd still like to hear more of who you are and what you're experiences are. You still throw around loose comments.

I don't know, maybe it's me....but if I was trying to save someone from making a mistake etc, my posts would seem to be of different content.

I would like to hear more of your 'situations' and interactions with the school. It's not that I don't believe you or I do believe you. Everyone's got a story to tell for some reason. I want to know what your reason is. Where have you been the last several months ? Why come out now ? You seem to be "level headed" in your comments and not bashing, but at the same point, any basher now knows how ineffective that is. All I know is this world isn't full of warm loving people per se', and for whatever reasons, there's people that just like to stir the pot. So until I get some facts and situations, then I don't tip the scale either way.

Maybe I'll think the same thing as you. But the difference is, I will be here after sharing my experiences. But now having said that, perhaps you were in 54 and I have no clue so I'll just stop :roll:
Later

[dt]

Well I'm not hoppin on that bandwagon. I'd still like to hear more of who you are and what you're experiences are. You still throw around loose comments.

I don't know, maybe it's me....but if I was trying to save someone from making a mistake etc, my posts would seem to be of different content. I'll just leave it at that.

[...snipped...]



To be quite frank, emerson24, I too have my doubts. But, I am trying not to be too skeptical, thus the reason for my additional questions.

mindprobe has said nothing that's new; now only if he/she could tell us more of the day-to-day life and what/how he/she studied. These types of info are certainly more helpful and constructive. Let hope he/she is able to do that (but I highly doubt it).


dt

[emerson24]

[quote=emerson24]
Well I'm not hoppin on that bandwagon. I'd still like to hear more of who you are and what you're experiences are. You still throw around loose comments.

I don't know, maybe it's me....but if I was trying to save someone from making a mistake etc, my posts would seem to be of different content. I'll just leave it at that.

[...snipped...]


To be quite frank, emerson24, I too have my doubts.

Who's Frank, and what does he have to do with this ?
:lol: That's an old joke from PA school. Something caused 'frank' bleeding, we'd all look around, FRANK, what happened, is he alright. ahhhh you had to be there.. :wink:

But, I am trying not to be too skeptical, thus the reason for my additional questions.

mindprobe has said nothing that's new; now only if he/she could tell us more of the day-to-day life and what/how he/she studied. These types of info are certainly more helpful and constructive. Let hope he/she is able to do that (but I highly doubt it).


dt

Yeah, I agree whole heartedly. I more or less used the 'bandwagon' to illustrate my stance, but yeah, to be FRANK :wink: about, hearing the little nuiances (sp?) would be more helpful. I think you obviously got the just of what I was meaning in that last sentence. I guess I"m just tired of hearing these people come in and say things and then have no finer points to make or clarify. Oh well.

Cheers :D

[mindprobe]

Okay, dt, I will elaborate. Again, I am disturbed by the reprisals in this forum regarding my previous comments. I am acting as a first hand reporter of sorts, and have no intentions about swaying decisions either way. Again, I merely post to provide a clear picture of what I experienced while at Spartan.

Life in St. Lucia is slow, which, yes, is conducive to studying...something that is required in any medical school. Some students do manage to party at various local functions, and the hotels (Kimitrai, Juliette's Lodge) do provide a "USA restaurant-like" dining experience if that is what you appreciate. No McDonald's, Subway, Denny's, or the like though. You have to drive to the northern part of the island (Castries) in order to get a Domino's pizza. Trips to Castries can provide an alternative to the slow-paced existence in Vieux Fort, but driving there and back can be a nuisance, especially if you have impending exams. I think I went to Castries maybe once or twice per trimester.

There is an open market on Saturdays in downtown Vieux Fort where you can purchase local vegetables and fruits. Some of the local fruits and veggies are interesting to those who might be unfamiliar: breadfruit, plantains, and taro seem to be staples. Also, the meat in St. Lucia is not processed like the meat in the US (you can interpret this as negative or positive, I am not sure), and many students buy live chickens for REAL cheap and have locals kill and clean them. Not like going to Publix, Safeway, Giant or Kroger in the US. :wink:

The grocery stores do carry produce and many items that you will see in the US, but some are much more expensive. For those who drink, you can buy alcohol ANYWHERE (except school of course), and there is no drinking age. There is a well-stocked drug store (pharmacy) next door to KFC that can provide toiletries (you can also get them at the grocery stores) but they are expensive. Take as much as you can. There are clothing stores and shoe stores downtown also, but they are comparable to Payless, Rave, and other low-end US stores in quality. Take what you will from that. Household items like cleaners can be purchased at the grocery stores, but most are locally made, or you can purchase the names you are familiar with (Tide, Windex, etc.) for more money. Most apartments are furnished, and come with TVs, and cable is a necessity because there are only two local stations (with cable you will get all the US networks plus HBO and Cinemax; I know I was elated when I discovered I could still watch American football on Sundays :D ). Because St. Lucia was once a British colony, the main sport in St. Lucia is cricket, followed by football (what Americans call soccer).

Studying...well, this is relative to the student. I cannot really comment except to say that in many classes you will have to rely not on the professor but on your textbooks. Many professors simply read from the textbook (or in some cases it is not a true textbook but a review book for the USMLE) and may provide little outside knowledge except what is in that particular book. Some may perceive this as good, others bad.

I hope this helps somewhat.

[dt]

Thanks mindprobe for elaborating on the day-to-day life. That was helpful. Okay, I take back my skepticism.

From your eariler post you mentioned that you were successful. I take that to mean that you at least passed Steps 1 and 2. (Is that correct?)

From other posters and yourself, I surmised that to learn at Spartan a student needs to learn from the textbooks, use USMLE study aids and Kaplan. Did you find that the profs, in general, understood the concepts of the course they taught and conveyed the knowledge?

I assume you have good study habit that helped you in your success. Is there anything else you can tell us? One poster had mentioned study group.


Thanks again,

dt

[Kirst]

Thanks for sharing your experience at Spartan!

[emerson24]

Mindprobe,

Thanks for the informative email. I haven't read an email like that before. That helps paint atleast somewhat of a picture of the island. You seem rather descriptive which was better than others have done.

I'm still curious as to when you were there and what you're expreince was with tests, faculty, and boards. Also, how about the other people ? One's who made and didn't. Can you comment on why the others didn't make it ?

Also, I'm still curious as to what you are doing now, and how long you have been following this forum.

Thanks

[mindprobe]

Hello again, dt. I am glad that I assuaged some of your skepicism regarding my statements here in this forum. I suppose that occurred by my eluciating the details of the day-to-day St. Lucia existence.
I just found out that this forum actually existed not long ago, though there were rumors about it when I was in St. Lucia.

I think I have answered your questions in some of my other posts. I will recap here though. Most of the professors at Spartan are not specialists in the fields in which they teach. This does not have to be a detriment if the professor has the right attitude about learning and keeps him or herself updated with current knowledge and maintains a firm understanding of the basic concepts. Again, most of the time this does not happen at Spartan. Some of the professors are not any more qualified to teach than you or I. You will find this frustrating and discouraging I am sure. This may not become evident in your first trimester because the Anatomy and Physiology professors are EXCELLENT, and this may give you a false sense of security. All I can advise you to do is keep YOURSELF updated on what YOU need to know by reviewing your current First Aid and Kaplan materials often. Also rely on your textbooks at times, and not on what the professors say in class.

Exams at Spartan are supposed to be USMLE style. Most of the time you will not get that. Kaplan teaches double and triple jump questions that are staples on the Step, but very few exams at Spartan have either. Also, the exams have very few clinical questions, which usually detail symptoms and signs that you will see upon examination of a patient and force you to reason what might be the precipitating cause. The fact of the matter is that if professors gave TRUE USMLE style exams the students would fail miserably. Remember in one of my earlier posts that I stated that the majority of people matriculating at Spartan should not be in ANY medical school. I have never heard of Spartan rejecting anyone. Therefore, the low standard in teaching and testing perpetuates.

Again, you CAN become a doctor by attending Spartan. You can be one of the successes. My understanding though is that when most students leave St. Lucia after forth trimester (finishing Basic Sciences), they take Kaplan, then the Step, they fail, take it again, still fail, and then go on to other walks of life. I have also heard of people taking 8 months to a year studying for the Step after finishing forth trimester, and still not feeling prepared to take the exam. You be the judge. If I had to make the choice again, I would go to another school...but that is me.

I hope this helps you further in your inquiries.

[emerson24]

MINDPROBE- You wrote > Exams at Spartan are supposed to be USMLE style. Most of the time you will not get that. Kaplan teaches double and triple jump questions that are staples on the Step, but very few exams at Spartan have either.

What do you mean by jump questions ? Meaning you have to formulate the diagnosis and the by that formulate the answer which is the end result ?

Ok, you have shared the horror stories, how about someone who passed on the first attempt ? What was your situation ?

[mindprobe]

Double and triple jump questions are those that require the student to make leaps in reasoning based on medical knowledge. It is one method by which the USMLE forces the student to use the "staircase of learning" from Basic Sciences that I mentioned in an earlier post.

Double jump: The exam shows a picture of, say, a bacterium and describes the culture characteristics, the fermentation, and other distinctive features. The QUESTION does not have to do with identifying the organism (which would be SINGLE jump) but might ask you to choose the manifestion of symptoms (DOUBLE jump). I other words, you had to reason the causative agent (from the picture and other information) and then reason the signs and symptoms it induces to answer the question, although the question does not directly ask for the offending organism.

Triple jump: The same idea except to the third degree. To use the above, the question might ask further about treatment which forces you to know the causative agent, the signs and symptoms and THEN the appropriate treatment. (This may be a bad example, but I am doing this on the fly; :? this could also be considered a double jump).

I hope this answers your questions. You can find sample questions on the Kaplan Medical website that might help further.

[dt]

Thank you mindprobe. I am grateful for your continual contribution.

When you expand on the issues, it make this Spartan forum an invaluable aid in evaluating the school.

At the very least, incoming students who have read this forum will have made an educated decision when they chose Spartan.


dt

[emerson24]

Yes, Your input is great. Unfortunately this forum has had only the negatives about the school and rarely any positives. However, you have stated that it CAN be done etc. When people state only the negatives and state that you WILL NOT be licensed it leaves those who are very impressionable with no knowledge of the caribbean with an incorrect picture.

I have gathered that with proper studying aids and good work ethic, it can be done. With that being said, I have ordered and do plan on ordering the BRS series of each course and essentialy study for the exams that way, and throughout the year.....of course reading the other required texts as well.

Can you please elaborate on those who have passed on their first time about ? Perhaps the numbers in your class and how their study habits/techniques were ? That would be an excellent thing to hear at this point.

I am still curious, I may have missed it in an earlier post, did you finish your degree with them, or did you transfer out ?

Thanks again!

[microphage]

Yes, Your input is great. Unfortunately this forum has had only the negatives about the school and rarely any positives.

SPARTAN KICKS GLUTEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

[emerson24]

Yes, Your input is great. Unfortunately this forum has had only the negatives about the school and rarely any positives.

SPARTAN KICKS GLUTEAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :lol:

:lol:

I just hope I'm not back here saying it....SUCKS GLUTEAL. I think personally it's probably won't seem bad at first, but will reveal it's weaknesses after being there a semester. That's fine, so long as Plan my Work and Work my Plan, I should be ok.

P.S. Micro, I'm going to be looking for a Laptop in the next few days, 600-1000 is what I want to spend. Looking for 20gig, DVD, CD-WR and floppy. Atleast that's what I hear I should atleast get. Any rec's ? Circuit have anything ?

[mindprobe]

There are positive stories about some people who have attended Spartan. There are a few that come to mind (again, remember that the facts may be slightly distorted from this account because it is GOSSIP):

Two people met at Spartan (or met before and went there together), became doctors, got married, had kids and sent those kids to Spartan.

An older woman (maybe around 50 or so) went to Spartan against the wishes of those around her. She got a residency at Duke I believe after hard work and proving the people who said she couldn't do it wrong.

A few trimesters ago, maybe even a year, I heard of a Spartan student scoring 100% on the USMLE Step 1 on the first try. This student was hardworking, and in addition enrolled in the 4 month Kapan review. ( I emphasize hard working because many students at Spartan believe that Kaplan will teach them what they didn't learn in medical school when it is actually a REVIEW of everything you should have already LEARNED).

You can be one of the successes! :D

[dt]

Two people met at Spartan (or met before and went there together), became doctors, got married, had kids and sent those kids to Spartan.
They must have attended when Spartan began many moons ago.


A few trimesters ago, maybe even a year, I heard of a Spartan student scoring 100% on the USMLE Step 1 on the first try. This student was hardworking, and in addition enrolled in the 4 month Kapan review. ( I emphasize hard working because many students at Spartan believe that Kaplan will teach them what they didn't learn in medical school when it is actually a REVIEW of everything you should have already LEARNED).

You can be one of the successes! :D
Was the student you?

Has anyone confirm this with Spartan administration?

[emerson24]

Two people met at Spartan (or met before and went there together), became doctors, got married, had kids and sent those kids to Spartan. :D

LOL, that was pretty funny dude. I don't question it one way or the other, but it's just funny sounding.

With respect to the hard working student, the one positive about Spartan if you choose to make it that way, is knowing the shortcomings and allowing that to manifest into being very dedicated to your studies.

Thanks again for the input.

P.S. Maybe I'll meet the offspring of the children :lol:

[Dr2B]

Two people met at Spartan (or met before and went there together), became doctors, got married, had kids and sent those kids to Spartan. :D

LOL, that was pretty funny dude. I don't question it one way or the other, but it's just funny sounding.


P.S. Maybe I'll meet the offspring of the children :lol:

Sounds funny? :wink: Actually, you will meet one of the offspring of the 2 that got married. :o One of them is going to be in fourth tri when you are in first :lol: The other offspring has already finished basic sciences and is back in the states. :D

[emerson24]

Two people met at Spartan (or met before and went there together), became doctors, got married, had kids and sent those kids to Spartan. :D

LOL, that was pretty funny dude. I don't question it one way or the other, but it's just funny sounding.


P.S. Maybe I'll meet the offspring of the children :lol:

Sounds funny? :wink: Actually, you will meet one of the offspring of the 2 that got married. :o One of them is going to be in fourth tri when you are in first :lol: The other offspring has already finished basic sciences and is back in the states. :D

Well, that's pretty awesome. I don't know why....but it just kinda brings a smile to my face. Maybe I'm getting old in thought. Shhh, I even teared up during a Hallmark commercial a few years ago. I was only like 28. But then when I saw good ol' Mel Gibson do the same thing in that movie "what women think or want to hear ? " or something like that, I knew it must be OK then :lol:

[Kirst]

Happy posts for once. Thanks mindprobe and DrB.

Time to move, Robin! :P