HELLO FROM TN

[ANGRYWOLF]

Hi..you can call me Angrywolf or Angry.I live in TN.I am a MT(ASCP) med tech..not a physician or a student...I was reading the state of TN website , specifically the Physician Board when I noticed that a Spartan student had been denied a medical license based solely it would seem on the California ban...so I have decided to try to find out more..that is why I am here.I would like to know where your school is deficient according to your perspective. Then I will go to the Cal site and try to read their decision or contact them directly and try to get a verbal opinion from them as to why they judge your school deficient or inferior. I know that info is probably here but scattered among several posts so I would like it to be all in one spot so I can question the state of TN board about it.

I hope you will be forthcoming with this information so I can get a clear view of your problem. :x

[CA advocate]

Hi Angrywolf, Well Ca has been doing this for years and unfortunetly, some naive states do believe them. The report california has from our school is from 25 years ago. From what I heard the school had just started to operate and was deficient according to American standards. However, the school is considered a foreign school!! The standards of many other foreign schools haven't been even looked at by ca board. So, I don't know what to tell you, it is all part of a money making scheme. The school has upgraded significantly since 25 yrs ago, but does ca care?

[ASIANDOC]

I did reseach on the carribean schools including spartan,In TN spartan has so many physicians practicing in TN ,from my rearch few current physicians with TN best med school called Vanderbilt Univ,so a claim that Spartan education substandard[may be its is] but in reality it would not hold since spartan grads educating TN doctors AS WE SPEAK.
If you want to practice in CA that is easy: apply to AZ and practice in Yuma if you want Southern CA or Reno in NV if you want N CA and spend some weekends with family in CA[just a suggestion if disperate for CA/practice in border state/city].
The only real solution is to seek recognition or close.

[Picard]

The school has upgraded significantly since 25 yrs ago, but does ca care?

Now that's not quite a fair statemnt. Spartan has chosen not to re-apply for recognition in the past 25 years. There is nothing under California law preventing Spartan from reapplying for approval. Spartan has simply chosen to ignore the issue and has not reapplied. Just like if you flunk a drivers test 25 years ago and never re-apply to DMV... and then blames the DMV for not giving you a license?

P

[Kirst]

spartan is either disapproved (a polite term for a ban really) or restricted in the following states:

california
texas
alabama
idaho
indiana
kansas
new mexico
vermont

now this is not to say that there are no licensed spartan graduates in any of these states. there are loop holes. there are connections. there are "evaluation on individual basis".

california's last site visit to spartan was in 1985.

go on yahoo or google and type in "spartan health sciences university banned in states". this school is famous!

[ANGRYWOLF]

Has Spartan not sought a new review by the state of California to determine if their upgrades have been sufficient to get them approved status ?
Thanks you for your replies thus far. :x

[ASIANDOC]

spartan did not reapply because they know they will not get approved.CA requires high quality US trained[prefered] stable faculty,also very close monitoring to clinical program,they require certain numbers of books in library,certain number of cadavers per students,ect...Spartan has no chance even getting the much easier recognitions from NY state.just few years ago[2 yrs] Spartan had difficulty in basically 2 states but know due to the negative publicity from the courant newspaper and recent changes and most importantly spartan decided not to shape up[US faculty hire,facilities improvements,PR campaign...] many states including TN,VT,TX new rules,the 7 states asked the FSMB for help...etc in reality most states are concerns from CA to NY,from FL to VT.
I hope I am wrong but things does not look good,a person here {shock] been raising concerns and giving people warnings to seek change,he/she was very right and sadly no one listened to his/her advise then everyone from the first year students to the owner must face the outcome.

[shockandawe]

The FSMB is going to make or break many schools.

Historically, when Spartan has lost a state or a loan or anything that they have lost, they havn't been able to recover from any of their loses... This is very scary. It's not Spartan has ever been able to redeem themselves. They have mainly survived by 3 mechanisms: 1- By staying under the radar. 2- By scavenging students from other schools. 3- By maintaining themselves with the least amount of money and charging the least amount possible, I mean by being extremely thrifty.

In the old days, before the Courant, the FSMB, new state board laws that are coming out, and the CNN embarrassment, these methods worked out just fine. I only see things getting worse and worse. Spartan needs to make a 180 degree turn for the better... Too bad, because their are a lot of extremely successful and hard-working graduates, that will be hurt, not to mention, the current students that are sweating their blood to make it in the USA. All I can say is, good luck.. s&a

[Kirst]

i don't quite understand how it'd detrimentally affect the licensed graduates, should the school go down. i mean, the rules don't apply retroactively. i heard that the saba graduates who finished schooling before the NY and CA approvals still fall under the same restrictions that their practice in those state remain unapproved. of course the school closing down will kill all the current students but why would it affect the graduates already licensed and practicing, other than the fact of living in shame perhaps?

[sean]

i don't quite understand how it'd detrimentally affect the licensed graduates, should the school go down. i mean, the rules don't apply retroactively. i heard that the saba graduates who finished schooling before the NY and CA approvals still fall under the same restrictions that their practice in those state remain unapproved. of course the school closing down will kill all the current students but why would it affect the graduates already licensed and practicing, other than the fact of living in shame perhaps?

One might be restricted to the state where he/she already has a license and be unable to get a license in any new state (depends on the individual state). - S

[ASIANDOC]

If a school closes or get disapproved in one state it will be ok for the already licensed grad,the problem lets say for example I am practicing in KY and the FSMB tells KY do not accept that school,the state boards will send a memo to all hospitals not to consider any applicants from such schools and also the hospital will look at already staffed doctors from such "poor schools" that that is insult and embarrasing to such doctors,most importantly if you make a mistake they will say[state boards and lawyers] "Ha Ha its because of your education",therefore you must be super doctor in order to survive.

[ANGRYWOLF]

By the way..the person who was rejected in TN last year had someone from the medical school with him according to the minutes of the meeting but that person was not identified in the minutes..
Can you give me an idea of how the facilities have improved from the "one building" claim made in the media, whether you have more than 4 old cadavers, whether you have a library and internet access for students and whether you have qualified teachers who can answer questions instead of just reading the book aloud....I ALSO DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY YOU ARE NOT ACCEPTED BY THE LOCAL HOSPITAL THERE as well as other carribean area hospitals..It really looks bad when you are not allowed clinicals at the hospital nearest to you..on the same island or island chain...
Also..I have read there are no entry requirements..not even the MCAT..no screening of applicants...alleged psychos have been through the school...apparently no GPA requirements...You have to admit a school without minimal standards looks to be of pretty shaky ground.
I know it makes you want to grind your teeth when people from Iran and Afghanistan..maybe people from Asian and other schools who cheated or bribed their way through get accepted..but they have a paper trail from accepted medical schools....if they are unfit it will catch up with them eventually..probably in a malpractice suit and the life of a patient..but it will catch up with them...
The administration there has to work to getthe school accepted..if CA won't go along who cares....certainly somewhere in the US there is a state that will listen if presented with accurate and sufficient evidence that CA is wrong would break with them...but the school adm has to be energetic and get involved.. :x

[shockandawe]

Angrywolf,

You need to take some of what is said in the media and on this forum with a grain of salt. Not having entry requirements is **. Spartan does have requirements and although their requirements are low, they do stick to them. If you go to Spartan without passing the required coursework and attending at least 80% of all your classes, you will fail. The curriculum is quite rigorous and they have tests almost every single week. Trust me, things are not as they seem. Those kids work their hearts off and they spend most of their time in St. Lucia with their books.

The average incoming class size is 16 to 20 students. 4 cadavers makes a 4 or 5 to 1 ratio of students to cadavers. I'm not at Spartan but if this is the case, then it isn't too bad.

The basic sciences are 4 classes, just like USA schools which have 4 classes. Class 1: sept to dec, Class 2: jan to may, summer off, then Class 3: sept to dec, Class 4: jan to may. This is the USA medical school schedule, Spartan has the same schedule only, they can start at different times and they do not take the summer off, but rather work straight thru...

Spartan is NOT banned from the public St. Lucian hospitals and they can do rotations there. However, the only hospital on the southern part of the island which is close to Spartan is St. Judes hospital and this is a "private" hospital and not a public hospital. Regardless, none of the St. Lucian hospitals including St. Judes, are teaching hospitals and none of them have residency programs. It would be to the benefit of the student to go to the USA and do his/her clinical rotations.

The Courant article wrote that there is one building. At that exact same time that the writers were visiting Spartan, there was another huge building being constructed right in front of their faces. They neglected to mention and turned their faces to the side. They mention that Spartan has only one building with four classes, well, they could have ten building with forty classes but that would be a total waste, since they only teach four classes in St. Lucia. Unlike some other schools in the caribbean which have 300+ students per semester, the Spartan classes are smaller and thus do not need big classes.

I never met any psychos while at Spartan, but I am sure that they have one or two, just as we know of psycho USA medical school grads, just as there are psychos all around the world. Amazing how the Courant writers used everything in their power to try and stir the emotions of their audience. In my opinion, both those writers are as good as criminals for twisting everything and if I were the Spartan administration, I would sue them both. I would especially sue them for stating that Spartan was not approved in St. Lucia. This is huge false accusation that they made and it could have effects on all of their current students and grads. -s&a

[Bob2k]

wow, sweating blood, that's pretty rough. what would you call that, hemospiration?

[ANGRYWOLF]

well later today I 'm going to start my thread on physicians and state licensing boards..Thanks for the help and I wish you all luck..just be nice to MTs and MLTs that work in the labs ok..we work our buts off and get no appreciation !!!