California Dreamin'...

[JTP73]

Any new information regarding this matter that can be disclosed? The website still remains the same:

http://www.medbd.ca.gov/Unapproved_Med_Schools.htm

[MartyJannety]

why isnt SMU listed on there yet? The school was formally dissaproved correct? So SMU will be what, the 10th school in the entire world that has been formally disaproved? Sheesh. I really hope the situation is rectified before next January when I start

[ASIANDOC]

Its good thing that SMU not listed,most schools that disaaproved are closed or dying,many not listed because they never applied but not approved[still better than disapproved because they can always say we do not believe in CA targeting us and we have to pay for their visits yet most schools gets it free around the world].

[MDTOB]

why isnt SMU listed on there yet? The school was formally dissaproved correct? So SMU will be what, the 10th school in the entire world that has been formally disaproved? Sheesh. I really hope the situation is rectified before next January when I start

My guess as to why SMU isn't listed on the disapproved list is because of the pending lawsuit against the CA Medical Board (regarding the unfairness and factually incorrect site inspection team's report submitted to the board).

God willing, SMU will succeed in getting CA approval! Otherwise, all of us from CA are SCREWED!

[azskeptic]

why isnt SMU listed on there yet? The school was formally dissaproved correct? So SMU will be what, the 10th school in the entire world that has been formally disaproved? Sheesh. I really hope the situation is rectified before next January when I start

My guess as to why SMU isn't listed on the disapproved list is because of the pending lawsuit against the CA Medical Board (regarding the unfairness and factually incorrect site inspection team's report submitted to the board).

God willing, SMU will succeed in getting CA approval! Otherwise, all of us from CA are SCREWED!

My guess is that there is a process of paperwork and it takes time for it to be programmed onto their website. "Pending" lawsuits have no affect on govt. agencies and I would also guess that SMU won't sue but one never knows.

[jgilbert63]

"...the survey team is unanimous in that the State of California, Medical Board of California, Division of Licensing at this time deny recognition of St. Matthew's University School of Medicine..."

If I were a betting man, I'd bet SMU doesn't get put on the list of "formally disapproved" schools. Denial of recognition (you're not ready yet) and formal disapproval (you're a diploma mill) are separate things....at least as I see it.

[hyloran]

"...the survey team is unanimous in that the State of California, Medical Board of California, Division of Licensing at this time deny recognition of St. Matthew's University School of Medicine..."

If I were a betting man, I'd bet SMU doesn't get put on the list of "formally disapproved" schools. Denial of recognition (you're not ready yet) and formal disapproval (you're a diploma mill) are separate things....at least as I see it.

A week or so ago when the report first came out, I posted the same thing you just wrote in this forum. And I went ahead and emailed Pat Park, the foreign schools liaison for California. She told me in no uncertain terms that SMU will be included on that list of disapproved schools because it HAS been disapproved. Just want to make that clear to prospective students. As much as you or I hate the fact that SMU is now in a worse position than before, it's the truth and we have to deal with it.[/b]

[ASIANDOC]

Interesting analysis.

[hyloran]

Mr. XXX: Yes, the California Board will need to add St. Matthew's name to that disapproved schools list.

Pat Park, Foreign Schools Liaison, Medical Board of California

>>> >>>

Ms. Park, thank you for sending the document to me. I have a question
regarding SMU's denial. Will this denial mean that SMU is now
considered a 'disapproved' school according to this webpage
(http://www.medbd.ca.gov/Unapproved_Med_Schools.htm). Or is that list
for some other purpose? Thank you,

Hyloran

[rdecastro]

"...the survey team is unanimous in that the State of California, Medical Board of California, Division of Licensing at this time deny recognition of St. Matthew's University School of Medicine..."

If I were a betting man, I'd bet SMU doesn't get put on the list of "formally disapproved" schools. Denial of recognition (you're not ready yet) and formal disapproval (you're a diploma mill) are separate things....at least as I see it.

I think you're right. There is a difference between "not approved" and "formally disapproved".

Of course, since the response of SMU was to call out the lawyers rather than address the concerns of the Medical Board, the board may decide that there isn't a difference.

[Donno70]

Disapproved or non-approved, what's the diff? No tickee, no washee! Like admin has expressed repeatedly, if California is where you need to be, plan accordingly. Live in the moment. Yes the whole thing stinks, but for now, this is the REALITY.

DM

SMU '09

[azskeptic]

Disapproved or non-approved, what's the diff? No tickee, no washee! Like admin has expressed repeatedly, if California is where you need to be, plan accordingly. Live in the moment. Yes the whole thing stinks, but for now, this is the REALITY.

DM

SMU '09

also, one learns not to hope when dealing with laws of science or govt. but rather deal with the reality. The school was disapproved in California. No other way to express it than how it was expressed by the medical board.

[hyloran]

"...the survey team is unanimous in that the State of California, Medical Board of California, Division of Licensing at this time deny recognition of St. Matthew's University School of Medicine..."

If I were a betting man, I'd bet SMU doesn't get put on the list of "formally disapproved" schools. Denial of recognition (you're not ready yet) and formal disapproval (you're a diploma mill) are separate things....at least as I see it.

I think you're right. There is a difference between "not approved" and "formally disapproved".

Of course, since the response of SMU was to call out the lawyers rather than address the concerns of the Medical Board, the board may decide that there isn't a difference.

Don't believe your own press, my friend. Lady California (aka Ms Pat Park) herself has said SMU is now 'disapproved'.

[jgilbert63]

Don't believe your own press, my friend. Lady California (aka Ms Pat Park) herself has said SMU is now 'disapproved'.

I don't think most are choosing to believe their own press, though I'm sure there are some. Most are trying to make sense of the semantics CA is using and what it means for SMU. Thus the supposition in my post above. If Ms. Park has indicated SMU will be placed on the disapproved list, I have no reason to doubt you. In the end, Donno70 hit the nail on the head...the only list that really matters, in the end, is the approval list and SMU is not currently on it.

[hyloran]

Don't believe your own press, my friend. Lady California (aka Ms Pat Park) herself has said SMU is now 'disapproved'.

I don't think most are choosing to believe their own press, though I'm sure there are some. Most are trying to make sense of the semantics CA is using and what it means for SMU. Thus the supposition in my post above. If Ms. Park has indicated SMU will be placed on the disapproved list, I have no reason to doubt you. In the end, Donno70 hit the nail on the head...the only list that really matters, in the end, is the approval list and SMU is not currently on it.

Except that in this case, the approval list is not the only thing that matters. The disapproval list DOES have consequences, whether realized or not. It does make it harder for people to practice in certain states; states that ultimately would not have been that hard had it not been for California disapproval. Put simply, we can't say that California disapproval only has an effect on those seeking California licensure.

[ASIANDOC]

Being on the disapproval list is bad because others like state licensure officials in different states as well as some program directors will have such info and they will know the reasons SMU listed is because ?defecincies[sorry to put it bluntly like that but that was the reasons of disapproving schools] in addition the list is so short ?6 schools many closed and the other 2-3 schools listed dying.If I was the owner of a new school and not ready I suggest they do not apply so their school name will not appear on this list.I still thing such list is unfair because it ignores hundreds of other "micky mouse" schools around the world and disapprove good school like SMU,that is bais and not good for the consumers.

[ASIANDOC]

Why the list is so short?
because < 2% of all 1600 international medical schools required to apply.
Its like 2 people wants to come for interview,one from the US very well dressed except having some dust on his jacket and another from Iran or Iraq immigrating to US & have huge holes on his jacket and very unready,the immigrant will have automatic pass and the US citizens asked to stay out because he is not ready!!!!!

[mo5225md]

personally i think it is rediculous that they have such a list. unfortunately you have to abide by the silly rules. What can we do but voice our opinion?!

[ASIANDOC]

site visits and schools accreditation is an excellent idea but creating specific rules for certain groups is unfair,they say English programs?dozens of English programs given automatic pass[such as Saddam Uni in Iraq],imports MD'S to US also dozens do[Iran],split program [Basic sciences in place /clinical in place] also most African countries do not have its Univ hosp,Attract Americans?well when someone will commit malpractice it really does not matter to the patient if the doctor trained in China or the carribeans ,also I know from my own country few private schools filled with corruption and they charge an arm and leg for tuition but due to distance no one interested in looking at them.I am so greatful that many states looking at CA rules but their board is fair example NM they say if you come from unapproved school,you show you are good by having license in a diiferent state,3 yrs residency,and clean records then you can apply,Idaho say have clean license 5 yrs in a different state then ok...etc.,if a jounalist someday wants to question our education I say: look at the hundreds of other international schools elsewhere and come back because you will have clear picture and not focusing on your own hard working citizens who passed all exams.If nations and groups said in history that its the laws and we must go with it democracy and freedom would have not occured.

[Miklos]

Why the list is so short?
because < 2% of all 1600 international medical schools required to apply.
Its like 2 people wants to come for interview,one from the US very well dressed except having some dust on his jacket and another from Iran or Iraq immigrating to US & have huge holes on his jacket and very unready,the immigrant will have automatic pass and the US citizens asked to stay out because he is not ready!!!!!

site visits and schools accreditation is an excellent idea but creating specific rules for certain groups is unfair,they say English programs?dozens of English programs given automatic pass[such as Saddam Uni in Iraq],imports MD'S to US also dozens do[Iran],split program [Basic sciences in place /clinical in place] also most African countries do not have its Univ hosp,Attract Americans?


Hold on a sec. Less than 2% of 1600 equals less than 32 schools.

I'm not certain about this number, but it does not seem to far off.

However, those 32 (or 50 or whatever) schools probably educate upwards of 90% (if not more) of USIMGs.

NB According to IMED; Saddam University no longer exists, it is now Al-Nahrain University. http://www.col-med-nahrain.com/

[ASIANDOC]

Not true,the majority of IMG's come from India,Pakistan,Iran,Middle East,South America[you can verify with ECFMG stats]
and most importantly it will take one poorly trained doctor to committ a mistake,if this doctor came from Zambabwie or Takrit a mistake is a mistake regardless of the origin of MD.

[ASIANDOC]

If you mean USIMG the American who study medicine abroad because they get rejected by US schools,well welcome to the real world and the international rule of "who you know,not what you know" that is sad if in this country we start to judge people based on country of origin and not qualifications.

[shockandawe]

Miklos,

The great majority of IMG's come from outside of the caribbean. They come from all over the place. The University of Iran puts out thousands of grads and their male grads have NEVER even touched a female patient. They do not even know how to deliver a baby, they have never even witnessed a delivery. These people are allowed do residency and get licensed in CA and they deliver your babys. In fact, CA has loads of them.

On the other hand, there are SMU, Spartan, , etc, grads that did ALL OF THEIR CLINICAL in the USA and were trained in the USA system and they are not allowed to practice in CA.

Saddam University or whatever you want to call it, is still run out of a chicken farm. Same with the Univ. of Bangladesh and the University of Afgan. Maybe the whole country of Bangladesh has 1 CT scan. I'm sure that you think that these guys are more qualified to practice in the USA, than Carib. grads that did all of their rotations in the USA.... There are loads of them, they are everywhere..

What CA is doing is unfair. I hope that SMU sues the crap out of them. -s&a

[persianprincess]

wow...can you people become more racist?

[shockandawe]

wow...can you people become more racist?

I don't think so "princess". Schools from around the world with medicine that has been outdated since the time of the Dark Ages are CA approved, while we who did all of our rotations in the USA, suffered blood, sweat and tears to make into the top programs in the USA, are not allowed to practice in CA because they discriminate against us. This is a huge injustice, princess... -s&a

[persianprincess]

S&A how many Iranian doctors do you know with holes in their jackets? Im Iranian and very insulted by the comment.

[shockandawe]

S&A how many Iranian doctors do you know with holes in their jackets? Im Iranian and very insulted by the comment.

Let me apologize for what ASAINDOC said, when he said that they could come in with holes in their jacket. First, I do not think that he meant they had real holes in their jackets, but rather in their educations. There are CORE rotations that every medical student needs o have exposure to and master to the best of their abilities. One of those cores is Ob/Gyn. Male medical grads from places such as Iran have ZERO learning in women's health, yet they are allowed to to deliver baby's in CA. I believe that ASIANDOC was referring to the education and not to their clothing. Nobody really cares if they wear Gucci or JC Penny.

The medicine in many of these places, Iraq, Iran, Somolia, Nepal, Vietman etc, etc, etc is really outdated. That does not mean that they do not have great docs. I believe that they do... But it just isn't fair that the CA boards discriminate against one group of FMG's.

Again, I apologize for the comment. It was not meant to be racist. I believe that ASAINDOC was not only talking about Iran and Iraq, but also Thailand, Vietman, Cambodia and all of the other international medical schools that have a free CA approval pass. -s&a

[Picard]

Here's my thoughts on the topic. The myth of comparing offshore schools with true domicile foreign schools is a very, very silly one that are perpetuated by those who are doing nothing but venting...

Next, comparing approval of offshore schools with true IMG"s from third world countries is not a realistic comparison. The US medical licensure process simply cannot police all the medical schools in the world. A line has to be drawn somewhere. And offshore schools seems to be the logical lince -- why? Because offshore schools are pseudo-US schools and de facto US schools. Offshore schools are based on US medical education system, targets US students who did not get into US medical schools, utilizes the US for at least half of it's curriculums by sending 3rd and 4th year students back into the US for training, and export vast majority of its graduates back into the US. They are de facto US schools. So, it's logical for US medical community to regulate these schools into US standards to prevent diploma mills. Make sense. Now, some say that it's not fair because true IMG"s from India, Iran... etc have "red carpet" treatment -- this is simply not true. They undergo individual scrunities by the medical boards that are equally harsh to others. And many do not make the cut. For every Indian MD gaining US licensure, there are many more that fail. Some say that it's only fair that offshore grads are offerred the same opportunity for individual scrunity -- the problem is, the more foundatmental issue is the existance of these offshore schools in the first place. From the US medical community's perspective, offshore schools that don't meet the basic LCME accreditation standards should NOT be in existance in the first place to produce graduates. The "end" (residency) shouldn't justify the means (substandard schools that should not have been in existance in the first place). Mind you, I'm not saying I agree with this 100%, but that's the current belief of the US system. And it does have arguable merrits. Unfortunately, offshore medical students from these schools are caught in the middle and have become casualties. Some may say that these students should have thought it through more carefully before choosing these schools -- again, these are arguable merrits. The bottom line is, the US establishements have made a clear distinction between true domicile foreign schools vs offshore schools training "US rejects." And they have very convincing and arguable merrits in doing so. And in the process, they have placed responsibilities on these offshore schools and offshore students to choose their paths wisely from the very beginning so that crying foul afterwards will likely not get you anywhere nowadays.

Now, some argue Oklahoma case as precedent to California case -- it's comparing apples and oranges. California lays out a process for compliance where as OK did not. And more importantly, the California process has been upheld in court challenges again and again. So, if there is any "precedence," it goes in favor of California.


BTW, this concept of "end cannot justify the means" has been upheld again and again in the US systems across professions. Example -- I worked with a vetern police officer who was probably one of the best cops I've ever worked with -- 20+ years of experiences, SWAT qualified, FTO qualified (Field Training Officer -- preceptor to recruits), bomb squad qualified. Well, he tried to transfer agency and during the process, it was discovered that he did not have a valid GED. Back in his days, he didn't graduate from high school and got what he thought was a GED -- well, it wasn't. Since GED or high school diploma was required by state law for all peace officers, he was immediately terminated by both agencies for lack of GED. Now, some say this is very silly and that he is one of the best cops in the department with more experiences than most on the force... but "end does not justify the means." He eventually rejoined the force after getting a proper GED. That's life. Same goes for offshore schools. The stance in the US medical community now is that regardless of post-medical school training, if a graduate did not go to what they perceive to be a real medical school, the end cannot justify the means... that's just life.

[ASIANDOC]

I apologized if I offended anyone,what I meant is other schools has defeciencies,I used Iran because I am familiar with the system[my other half is Iranian doc].

[ASIANDOC]

I strongly believe that SMU will get CA soon,I am not an Alumni of SMU but it really upset me to hear of its disapproval but the good news all alleged deficincies are easily corrected.Again persianprincess,I am sorry about the misunderstanding and my point was every school has its deficiencies and no one is perfect.

[WestTexasRN]

I apologized if I offended anyone,what I meant is other schools has defeciencies,I used Iran because I am familiar with the system[my other half is Iranian doc].

You meant your BETTER half right? :wink:

[JTP73]

Any new information regarding this matter that can be disclosed? The website still remains the same:

http://www.medbd.ca.gov/Unapproved_Med_Schools.htm

Still the same, no SMU listed yet. Geesh, how long does it take to update a website? I guess I'll just assume there's a reason they're not updating the website. Anyone know what it could be?

[SH8TN]

I TALKED TO PAT PARK THE LADY INCHARGE OF CALI MEDICAL BOARDS..AND SHE SENT ME THE COPY OF THE REPORT THAT WAS SUPPOSED TO BE AVAIABLE ..surprise surprise..they denied it..im going to see if i can attach this report..but anyone interested in getting a copy..let me know..she sent it to me and i have it in my email..its over 30 pages...and because of this update, i have now decided not to start SMU and instead go somewhere else..just so you guys know..i took a visit to MAINE, talked to DR. GREEN and they all gave optimistic answers..but when i brought the emails and info about cali from the cali board themselves..boy, did their tune change..they couldnt ** anymore..for those who thought they could transfer into another school after attending one that is not recognized by cali..its not going to happen..according to pat park, any courses (academic courses) done at a school that is not recoginized by the state board of cali will not be accepted, bascially making you ineligible to practice, do residency, or even clinicals in cali..period..the only option is to retake whatever courses you took from the unrecognized school at a recognized school which basically means additional money , and time that has to be spent retaking everything in order to be eliegible..what a waste..if you dont believe me CONTACT PAT PARK at the California State Board..she is in charge of all the Foregn Medical Students-Graduates who are trying to get liscensing and do any sort of clinicals for cali..

I learned the hard way..by the way, the report, is extremely interesting..

[Bob2k]

how amazing that you were able to obtain a copy of the report.......it's only been public for a month now.

and your breakthrough findings aren't all that amazing, it's old news, if you want cali then go to a cali-approved school, big 3 or saba

[SMU_Information]

www.smucayman.com/california

There for everyone to see, along with our rebuttal. We would feel worse about the whole thing had it beenbased in reality.

And just to clear up one thing, until approval is granted, you cannot get a license in CA as an SMU grad, even if licensed in another state. NM works that way, not CA.

[MDTOB]

how amazing that you were able to obtain a copy of the report.......it's only been public for a month now.

and your breakthrough findings aren't all that amazing, it's old news, if you want cali then go to a cali-approved school, big 3 or saba....however, it is not true that you're barred from cali permanently if you go to smu, you can obtain a license in another state and then get licensed in california.

You are incorrect!

According to Pat Park, CA Medical Board Foreign Liason, the Medical Board of CA has not adopted the rule of "reciprocity" like other states have. In other words, it is not permitted to "transfer" your Medical License from another state to Cali.

Good luck.

[Sebastien Guilbard]

I think the report was available on our website from the beginning. It is not like we have been trying to hide anything.
As far as coming to SMU if you are from CA, I think JP has repeated hundreds of times not to come to SMU if you are planning to practice in CA.
It seems to me we have been pretty up front so i do not see SH8TN is telling everyone about the ** that Gr Green would say.
By the way, for the ones who know Dr Green, he is so dedicated to students that I have hard time to believe he can be assimilated as a BSter.....

Just some thoughts!!!!

[AUCMD2006]

S&A you must have done a fellowship in BSing or a residency in spinning the truth (...hehe referrence to spin doctor) :lol:


"First, I do not think that he meant they had real holes in their jackets," etc "but their education"??????????????????????????????????????????????

i am in psych right now and have been practicing testing abstract thinking but this is beyond any reasonable extrapolation from a statement that i have ever come accross.

the sentence and context is perfectly laid out to imply that these immigrants would look like a picture in staten island while the US student something out of a a Victorian post card...stretching really stretching on this one...holes in a jacket as a metaphor for holes in your education...now thats good comedy.

[azskeptic]

I think the report was available on our website from the beginning. It is not like we have been trying to hide anything.
As far as coming to SMU if you are from CA, I think JP has repeated hundreds of times not to come to SMU if you are planning to practice in CA.
It seems to me we have been pretty up front so i do not see SH8TN is telling everyone about the ** that Gr Green would say.
By the way, for the ones who know Dr Green, he is so dedicated to students that I have hard time to believe he can be assimilated as a BSter.....

Just some thoughts!!!!

Was the article on your inside website since it was issued to the school in December?

[teratos]

Would have to agree that SMU has been very straightforward. I think that the CA is certainly a blow to the school, but judging from what I have seen of the school they will look closely at the recommendations and do their best to correct said deficiencies.

[Sebastien Guilbard]

Answer to azskeptic:
Of course not since at the time, we thought we had a chance to have this report revised as it is normally done.

[azskeptic]

Answer to azskeptic:
Of course not since at the time, we thought we had a chance to have this report revised as it is normally done.

Did you tell your students how serious it was or how likely it was that you wouldn't get approval? This must have serious affects for the ones who risked going to your school in January who would have made a different decision if they had known what was in the initial report that you saw in December, 2004,which you apparently withheld from them.

[Sebastien Guilbard]

Well, either it is a reading problem or...
JP, long time before I started on this forum had said over and over again:" if you want to practice in CA, do not come to SMU until we are approved"
Furthermore, when you receive a first draft official document from an official agency, do you think your first choice is to put it on the internet? especially when you are told you can answer to this document and suggest changes.
I do not know why you do not want to understand this, it seems pretty simple to me.

[azskeptic]

Well, either it is a reading problem or...
JP, long time before I started on this forum had said over and over again:" if you want to practice in CA, do not come to SMU until we are approved"
Furthermore, when you receive a first draft official document from an official agency, do you think your first choice is to put it on the internet? especially when you are told you can answer to this document and suggest changes.
I do not know why you do not want to understand this, it seems pretty simple to me.

Indeed JP has told students all along that California wasn't a given. People being human got to thinking it would happen I suppose. How many students have you lost who quit when they realized California wasn't happening now?

[Sebastien Guilbard]

I do not know that answer because we thought CA students would not come until we are approved.
The ones that are from CA and in school now will have to make their own decision, certainly not an easy one.

[teratos]

I have seen nothing but cavets from SMU administration regarding CA. There are lots of students who "hope" things will happen. They should have nobody to blame but themselves. G

[ASIANDOC]

No one should blame SMU about anything because I been following this issue and School offecials repeatedly told us if you want CA go somewhere else,and even at this very minute if the school gets CA in 2006,no one will be eligible to go to CA before that date because at this time they claim [CA]the standards not adquate so no one will ever be licensed from today's classes.

[claudette737]

I just read the evaluation report and saw this:

"Discussions about the student’s ability to finance his/her education are initiated. The overall cost approximates US$200,000. "

Is SMU really that expensive?! If that's the case, I may as well go elsewhere. I always thought SMU was less expensive than other caribbean schools (Ross, AUC, SGU).

[NYC27]

Honestly, all caribbean schools would run you the same amount. It all really depends on how you manage your money. SGU tuition is really expensive.. while spartan is extremely cheap. I would say, SMU is in the middle.

[claudette737]

Yeah, but I still am in shock. One of my easons for going caribbean (besides knowing I didn't want to waste time in US) was b/c I thought it was a bit cheaper than US schools. But heck, 200 grand is about as much as a US school. Are these caribbean schools crazy, charging that much $$
when they know their graduates have so many limiations? Geesh, talk about for-profit...
(This isn't just about SMU, I mean ALL caribbean schools, so I am not bashing-I really like SMU, in act)

[ol' man]

Yeah, but I still am in shock. One of my easons for going caribbean (besides knowing I didn't want to waste time in US) was b/c I thought it was a bit cheaper than US schools. But heck, 200 grand is about as much as a US school. Are these caribbean schools crazy, charging that much $$
when they know their graduates have so many limiations? Geesh, talk about for-profit...
(This isn't just about SMU, I mean ALL caribbean schools, so I am not bashing-I really like SMU, in act)

Going to the Caribbean for cost reasons is not something you want to do. You are putting yourself at an automatic disadvantage. If you can get in to an American school, cost is not going to matter unless you are paying out of pocket. IMGs, with ery few exceptions, are not going to get the residencies American Medical school students are. Interest on the federal loans you can get in American schools is also going to be partly deferred, and on that which is not, you can lock in a fixed rate after graduation. You can't do that with the private loans you will need in the Caribbean. And $200,000 will pay off quickly when you begin working.

[williamrobert]

From my read of that report, it seems a big concern was over what they perceived as an unregulated, inconsistent clinical program. The comments about basic sciences, facilities etc. were mostly positive. Inasmuch as that is the case, only the administration seems to be to blame...neither faculty in the Caribbean nor students have anything to do (presumably) with how the clinical program in the U.S. is designed and implemented.

[Donno70]

Yeah, but I still am in shock. One of my easons for going caribbean (besides knowing I didn't want to waste time in US) was b/c I thought it was a bit cheaper than US schools. But heck, 200 grand is about as much as a US school. Are these caribbean schools crazy, charging that much $$
when they know their graduates have so many limiations? Geesh, talk about for-profit...
(This isn't just about SMU, I mean ALL caribbean schools, so I am not bashing-I really like SMU, in act)

It's not as if school tuition is $200K alone. If you've ever been on vacation in Caribbean, you'd know it's not cheap. I'd venture to say that living expenses account for almost half of that amount.

DM

[Sebastien Guilbard]

Hello,
I agree Donno 70.
The tuition is in a good range, now, your education will cost what you want it to cost.
We had one student living in Cayman with 1500USD/month, but I know some other were spending a fortune, going to restaurants every nights.
Budget is a word that every Med students need to understand and appreciate. If you budget your life on the island and make sure you stick to it, you will be far from the 200K.

[persianprincess]

S&A you must have done a fellowship in BSing or a residency in spinning the truth (...hehe referrence to spin doctor) :lol:


"First, I do not think that he meant they had real holes in their jackets," etc "but their education"??????????????????????????????????????????????

i am in psych right now and have been practicing testing abstract thinking but this is beyond any reasonable extrapolation from a statement that i have ever come accross.

the sentence and context is perfectly laid out to imply that these immigrants would look like a picture in staten island while the US student something out of a a Victorian post card...stretching really stretching on this one...holes in a jacket as a metaphor for holes in your education...now thats good comedy.


If your in psych then you should know how insulting that comment is. Again Im Iranian and I have gone to enough Iranian doctors practicing in the States to know that they are one of the best in their field. I can name a few that have celebrities and politicians as patients. And yes these physicians received their medical degree in Iran. Any doubts???

[teratos]

The cost of living on many of the islands is much higher than in many US cities. G

[swimguy23]

not fairfield county, connecticut.....things are a bargain here (sxm)

[Sebastien Guilbard]

It is not hard to understand why the island life is more expensive, you need basically to import all goods.....that would do!!!
In Cayman, the price is the same as in US supermarket, except it's in Cayman Dollars, therefore add about 20% more or less and you should be there.
Some items like chicken and pork is cheap, some other like USDA angus Beef is very expensive...