VISITING SABA TOMORROW, AND HAVE SOME CONCERNS.

[bigguy]

I'M FLYING DOWN TO SABA TO VISIT AND FINALIZE MY DECISION TO ATTEND; I WAS ACCEPTED FOR SEPTEMBER 2005. MY PRIMARY REASON FOR MAKING THE VISIT WAS TO SPEAK DIRECTLY WITH THE CLINICALS COORDINATOR TO GET A REALISTIC PICTURE OF WHAT AND WHERE MY CLINICALS WOULD BE. I'VE HAD SOME MUCH APPRECIATED FEEDBACK FROM THIS FORUM, BUT I WANTED TO HEAR DIRECTLY, FROM THE SOURCE, AS TO KIND OF CLINICAL OPPORTUNITIES THAT ARE AVAILABLE (OR UNAVAILABLE) IN NEW YORK CITY.

WHEN I CALLED TO SET UP THE APPOINTMENT, I WAS TOLD THAT AS A NEW STUDENT, "IT'S TOO EARLY, SHE WON'T MEET WITH YOU." I GOT THE EMAIL ADDRESS OF THE DEPARTMENT AND WROTE A REQUEST, BUT GOT NO RESPONSE.

MY DECISION TO SWITCH PATHS AT 38 AND FOLLOW A DREAM OF BECOMING AN MD HAS A SIGNIFICANT OPPORTUNITY COST ATTACHED TO IT. I'M A LAWYER, AND I ALREADY MAKE MORE MONEY THAN I COULD HOPE TO MAKE AS A DOC. I OWN MY HOME IN MANHATTAN, AND WILL BE LEAVING IT TO LIVE THE STUDENT LIFE IN SABA. IF I'M GOING TO SPEND HALF A MILLION DOLLARS TO BECOME A DOC, AND LOSE THE OPPORTUNITY OF MAKING MILLIONS MORE, I FEEL IT'S ONLY RESPONSIBLE TO HAVE A WELL FOUNDED PLAN FOR THE FUTURE.

MY MOTIVATION FOR ATTENDING SABA WAS THAT IT FIT ALL OF MY REQUIREMENTS. IT'S A THREE YEAR PROGRAM, THEY DIDN'T REQUIRE ME TO TAKE A LOT OF ADDITIONAL PREREQS OR THE MCAT, AND THEY HAVE NY AND CA APPROVAL. IT'S QUICK IN AND QUICK OUT, AND AT MY AGE, TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE.

BUT AT THIS STAGE IN MY LIFE, I DON'T WANT TO LIVE LIKE A REFUGEE DURING MY CLINICAL TRAINING. I WANT TO KNOW WHERE I'LL BE LIVING. IF I CAN'T DEPEND ON DOING ALL OF MY CLINICAL WORK IN THE NEW YORK METRO AREA, THEN I WANT TO BE ABLE TO PLAN ON AN ALTERNATE LOCATION. I'M NOT WILLING TO JUST CROSS MY FINGERS AND HOPE FOR THE BEST 2 YEARS FROM NOW.

MORE THAN ANYTHING, I'D LIKE THE OPPORTUNITY TO SIT ACROSS FROM A DESK FROM A PERSON WHO CAN ANSWER MY QUESTIONS HONESTLY AND WITH AUTHORITY.

DO ANY OF YOU HAVE RECOMMENDATIONS AS TO WHO I COULD CONTACT TO MAKE THAT HAPPEN?

THANKS SO MUCH. ONE OF THE THINGS THAT ENCOURAGES ME ABOUT SABA IS THAT SO MANY OF YOU ARE WILLING TO SHARE YOUR GOOD AND BAD EXPERIENCES. MEDICINE IS ALL ABOUT AFFILIATIONS, AND IT SEEMS LIKE THE STUDENTS AT SABA ARE FAIRLY TIGHT.

BIGGUY

[rdecastro]

Please let us know how it goes.

BTW, three year program? Only theoretically, afaik. 20 months of basic sciences, then you need to take step 1, then 72 weeks (minimum, plus travel time) of clerkships. But, don't worry about it, it's worth it.

[Patrik Leonard]

Well, first of all, if you're flying to Saba to meet the clinical coordinator, you're flying in the wrong direction. All of the clinical rotation portion of the education is handled out of Saba's home offices in Gardner, Massachusettes. Come to Saba to see what the island is like & what living here is like during your 20 months of Basic Sciences, but coming to Saba isn't going to tell you anything about Clinical Rotations.

The Clinical Coordinator as they told you, is very unlikely to meet with you as since she is already very busy coordinating all of clinical rotations for the hundreds of Saba students who are currently in the rotations portion of the education. It is a very small office & as it is, all of us already paying Saba students bug them on a daily basis trying to figure out where & when our rotations are going to be. She comes to Saba once each semester to meet with the graduating 5th semester class, during which time every person in that class has an appointment with her to start determining where they're going to go. Let me rephrase that, that is the FIRST time that any of us have a meeting with her about our rotations. She does visit each of the other semester's classrooms & takes questions, but does not have the time to meet 1 on 1 with every single student, let alone every potential student.

I really don't mean to be making this so harsh, I'm just telling you the way it is, and that's something we all know, and we've all accepted in deciding to come here in our hopes of becoming a physician. Essentially everyone who comes here knows good & well that some parts of this education just aren't going to be for certain. Will the education on Saba prepare you for Step 1 and your rotations.... yes. Will the Saba clinical coordinators office get you into all your core rotations.....yes. Will they do it exactly to your timetable & in the location you want..... no. They will try their best, but that's just not a promise made, and I'm sure if you were to visit with them personally they'd say the same thing. Their duty is to make sure you get the core rotations, period. You set up your own elective rotations (typically not a problem & done through contacts made during your core rotations), and if you want to go to one certain location for the entire time, you probably need to set up your core rotations by yourself as well. Most students who come here will end up doing at least a little moving around in order to complete their rotations, that's just part of this loophole that is Caribbean Medical School (I don't think it's a Saba only thing, but can't be 100% certain.)

There are currently 3 locations affiliated with Saba where you can do pretty much all of your core rotations, Baltimore, Kansas City, and Homa (sp??) Louisiana (not New York Metro like you mentioned, I think you can do a fair amount there, but don't think as many as those 3 locations.) Obviously as you're hoping for, so are many other students hoping to be able to set up shop in one location & not have to move around a lot. But there are only so many rotations available at each of those locations, & the simple fact is that they fill up. And when faced with who to send to those rotations, several issues are going to come into play, is that location your hometown, do you have a family which makes it much harder than other students to move around, & even what were your grades & performance at Saba & on the USMLE like compaired to the other students wanting the same rotation as you. Not questions that can be answered this early in the game for you, and thus again, too early for them to even be able to give you an educated straight answer even if you were able to meet face to face.

All in all, think really hard about is this really the right path you're wanting to take in your life. Coming to Saba to become a physician is all about compromises made because your desire to be an MD outweighs any other reasonable sacrifices you'll have to make in order to get there. I've always been very happy with the opportunity that Saba has given me in my goal of becoming a physician, and very happy to suggest this route to anyone else who's interested, but I think you really need to reconsider if this direction is the way you want to go about it, not just Saba, but a Caribbean medical school in general. If you want certainties like you mentioned, I think maybe you should really consider taking the MCAT, getting a good score, and trying to get into a New York area medical school, which is possible too, not easy, I sure wouldn't want to try, but maybe that's just me! :)

I know this has been kind of a "tough love" reply, but I really am trying to give you information as honestly, accurately, & plainly as I can. I've been at Saba for awhile now, have had a lot of friends here, who are now in their rotations and feel I have some insight into what comes after Saba, and I think I've been as accurate as I can be. I hope this all has been helpful in some way, that's really the only reason I'm here writing this. Best of luck in whatever path you decide to follow!!
Patrik

[wolfvgang22]

Thanks for the advice Patrik!

May I also be as strong in the force one day, oh Jedi Master. :D

:starwars:

[IMDoc]

It is not surprising that they would not meet with you. When I applied I actually made a trip to Gardner, MA and met with all the different departments. If you make an appointment they are pretty cordial. It is only 2-3 hours from NYC as well. You can do alot of rotations in NYC including IM, OB/GYN, Surgery, and Peds. I don't think that they have psych yet, but that is something that you could do in NC. The hospitals are Lincoln in the Bronx and Brookdale in Brooklyn.
I have a separate question, are you going to medical school to be a doctor or are you going to continue being a lawyer when all is said and done? Just wondering.

[Patrik Leonard]

Holy cr***p Wolf, you just made my day, I love that animated SW gif, I'm a huge fan!! I'm making that my icon for my instant messenger!! Thanks!!

[bigguy]

Hello all,
Thanks for the feedback. Taking a trip to Gardner never occurred to me. I just assumed that the clinicals coordinator would be in Saba; but of course, it makes absolute sense that they're based in the states. I'm absolutely going to do that. I understand now that the clinicals office is bombarded by students. I'm less offended that I didn't receive a reply.

To answer the question directed at me. I'd love to practice medicine, but having the MD would make me pretty attractive as a patent lawyer in the pharm/med-equipment world, or as in-house counsel to a big hospital corporation. I'm not really sure. If I can finish residency by 46 or so, that leaves a good 20-25 (or more) years to do a lot of things. I'm not so much money motivated; I just want a job where my eyes don't glaze over from boredom. One of the things that attracts me to medicine, is that it's a job you can do, and be respected for, until you drop dead of old age. I know a lot of 78 year old doctors. I can't say the same about any other field.

One more question for those of you doing your rotations now. Let's say you're in your IM rotation at a hospital, is it unreasonable to think that you might be able have close enough contact with other departments to be able to wangle another rotation out of them. Or is that just crazy talk? Is it possible to have rapport with directors, or are clinical students just pesky fleas?

Thanks again,
Bigguy
Ps. Thursday, I'll be the dork walking around the school looking confused and wearing a tie. Feel free to say hello, or throw fruit.

[gasdr]

Bigguy,

Patrick was absolutely right. You will likely get very little or no info about rotations on the island. All of that is handled in Gardner.
They are as busy as advertised.

Finishing in just over 3 years is realistic. 20 months on the island and 72 weeks of clinicals. You do the math but,

Starting in September however, you will not be able to make the match until 4 years later.

So if you start in Sept 2005 you will be able to participate in the 2009 match, meaning that you will start residency in July 2009. If you hustle and take rotations back to back to back without vacations you will finish in about December of 2008 or Jan 2009. That means you will be waiting 6 months to start residency.

The down side is that you will not have much time to study for boards on this time schedule. I am not sure what your motivation is regarding medicine is but if you want to practice medicine you will want to have good board scores to get a good residency and that will require time to study. If you are disciplined and do not have many distractions you can study sufficiently to do well without taking time off.

There are many rotations that you can do in NYC and if you network there you can do more. There are a few rotations that you will likely have to go elsewhere to do but you can probably do most of them in NYC.

Saba has a limited # of clinical spots, so if you want to finish early you have to be flexible, meaning you may have to go to other locations to finish without any interruptions.

Ross has more rotations in the NYC area and I think St. Georges does as well. I am guessing you did not take the MCAT and that is why you did not mentioin those schools.

Currently, if I am not mistaken, you do not need the MCAT yet but that may be changing soon. If you have not taken the MCAT then Saba, by far is the best choice.

By the way,
Leave the tie at home. If you have any more questions, PM me.
Good luck.




I am speaking from experience as I was able to finish in about 3.5 years.

[swinginislanddoc]

Hey BigGuy,
I'll be the tall dark haired woman walking out of Classroom 4 looking very very sleepy. And I'm the only Shauna on campus, so if you have any questions I should be easy to find.
Patrik is not easy to find - he hides in his little office like a hermit and only comes out when he thinks he won't be spotted. He should just use the force to be invisible...

[Patrik Leonard]

Oh man, gasdr's right, I hope you're kidding about the tie, otherwise we're going to know you as the sweaty guy in the tie!! It's the Caribbean, bring your flip flops & a T-shirt, you'll fit right in. :) Good points about the timing of rotations. It is possible to do everything in less than 4 years, but that takes other sacrifies like no time off, little time for studying, & probably moving around a lot to start one rotation as soon as another has ended. Maybe see you Thursday then, how long are you staying anyway?

[IMDoc]

Hello all,
Thanks for the feedback. Taking a trip to Gardner never occurred to me. I just assumed that the clinicals coordinator would be in Saba; but of course, it makes absolute sense that they're based in the states. I'm absolutely going to do that. I understand now that the clinicals office is bombarded by students. I'm less offended that I didn't receive a reply.

To answer the question directed at me. I'd love to practice medicine, but having the MD would make me pretty attractive as a patent lawyer in the pharm/med-equipment world, or as in-house counsel to a big hospital corporation. I'm not really sure. If I can finish residency by 46 or so, that leaves a good 20-25 (or more) years to do a lot of things. I'm not so much money motivated; I just want a job where my eyes don't glaze over from boredom. One of the things that attracts me to medicine, is that it's a job you can do, and be respected for, until you drop dead of old age. I know a lot of 78 year old doctors. I can't say the same about any other field.

One more question for those of you doing your rotations now. Let's say you're in your IM rotation at a hospital, is it unreasonable to think that you might be able have close enough contact with other departments to be able to wangle another rotation out of them. Or is that just crazy talk? Is it possible to have rapport with directors, or are clinical students just pesky fleas?

Thanks again,
Bigguy
Ps. Thursday, I'll be the dork walking around the school looking confused and wearing a tie. Feel free to say hello, or throw fruit.



It is possible to get other rotations while at a hospital. I know it is definately that way at Brookdale Hospital for electives, and I think it is that way in KC as well. I don't know much about the hospitals in MD or LA though, but from what I have been told that it is possible to get other rotations at hospitals once you are already there. I asked about your future intentions because there are a lot of lawyers nowadays that go back and get their MD and then sue doctors in malpractice cases. Just as advice though, I wouldn't tell anyone in the hospitals you go to that you are a lawyer. At the hospital that I am at, which is very benign, they think of lawyers in a very negative light and have no qualms about saying so. That is just the current climate in medicine these days, but I don't see any change in that occuring in the near future.
Have fun on Saba and enjoy the drive up to Gardner. It is in the middle of nowhere in MA, but like I said only about 2-3 hours away from you in NYC.

[wolfvgang22]

Well, there are different kinds of lawyers, so we don't have to hate all of them....what if he's a patent law expert? Or an expert on mineral rights?

[IMDoc]

A few have tarnished the rest, all of them are parasites I say!!!!!!!!!

[ducman]

It was good to meet you today in our Histology class. Hope you enjoyed the rock, the school and the people with whom you conversed.

Hope to see you in September!

[islandFEVER]

..........

[swinginislanddoc]

Hey Bigguy,
hope you enjoyed your trip. Sorry I was a bit of a space cadet when we spoke - I was still half asleep. ha! If you have any more questions feel free to post them.

[djinbh]

Bigguy,
It was nice bumping into you at the deli. Looking foward to seeing you in sept. I'll show you the ***** and Garfunkle house next time.PM me if you have any other questions.

[wolfvgang22]

Bigguy,
It was nice bumping into you at the deli. Looking foward to seeing you in sept. I'll show you the ***** and Garfunkle house next time.PM me if you have any other questions.
Is it the one by the bridge over troubled waters?

[dreamdoc]

No Wolf! Its the one over by the sound of silence.. :lol:

[retina_geek]

as someone who is wrapping up my clinical rotations this week, i have had the opportunity to deal with sandy and all the others at the gardner office... they do work very hard to set up rotations and i'm sure they will take the time to talk to you if you want. when it comes time, in actuality, to have your rotations set up, remember that step 1 scores rule. most of my rotations that were scheduled "unofficially" on the island were changed, fortunately, for the better, after my step 1 scores came out. also remember that if you are a family man, you'll have the proverbial dibs in staying in one spot... good luck on your journey... it all works out beautifully in the end...

and just some words of encouragement from someone who is nearly done... my best friends and i are all extremely satisfied with our experiences with saba... three of them are heading into sweet university programs in anesthesia and the other into an equally sweet ER residency, again, at a university program. as you can tell by my name, i got the residency of my choice through the SF match and still can't believe that we all got exactly what we wanted... and a piece of advice for those of you heading down in the near future... don't get caught up in the bullshit on the island about everyone else's grades, and who's kissing *** to whom... the experience of being on the island is unforgettable... as much as i wanted to get the hell of the island when i was there (growing up as a toronto kid), i look back on it all with very very fond memories... i truly miss my friends and all the presidentes we shared in the kickgluteal weather... my advice: read enough to memorize the BRS books, and spend the rest of the time drinking and laughing... the clinical experience is stressful and you'll never have as great a time as you do on saba... peace... (drops the mike and walks off stage...)

-bren.

[wolfvgang22]

Will do, thanks! 8)

[Siddman]

Hey...retina_geek...good to hear your experience....i am from Toronto tooo and i would like to know if you wrote the Ontario Medical examination and if you can give us Canadian some advise on coming back to Canada or staying in US and best time to write your Canadian exams....

Thank you



Siddman

[bigguy]

HEY ALL,
I'M ABOUT TO NEWPOST MY IMPRESSIONS OF THE AMAZING TRIP I HAD TO SABA. I'M VERY GRATEFUL TO THE PEOPLE I SPOKE TO, AND ALL THE PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM WHO HAVE TAKEN TIME TO RESPOND. THANKS SO MUCH TO ALL OF YOU.

BUT BEFORE I CLOSE OUT THIS THREAD, I JUST HAVE TO DEFEND THE LEGAL PROFESSION. SURE, EVERYONE HATES LAWYERS, AND THEY HATE ALL THE ISSUES THAT SURROUND LAWYERS. LAW, BY IT'S VERY NATURE, IS A BATTLE OF REASON. BATTLES ARE OFTEN UNPLEASANT. BUT BEFORE YOU GET YOUR MD AND BECOME A LAWYER-HATING DOC, REMEMBER THAT BEHIND EVERY DOC WHO GETS SUED IN A MALPRACTICE CLAIM, IS A LAWYER FIGHTING TO PRESERVE THE PROFESSIONAL INTEGRITY OF THAT DOC. NO ONE WILL SAVE YOU MORE MONEY, TIME AND STRESS THAN A REALLY GOOD LAWYER. SO I SUGGEST THAT YOU GET TO KNOW AS MANY OF THEM AS YOU CAN. LAWYERS KNOW OTHER LAWYERS, AND REFERRALS ARE A MUCH BETTER THING THAT LETTING YOUR FINGERS DO THE WALKING THROUGH THE YELLOW PAGES WHEN YOU'VE JUST BEEN SERVED MALPRACTICE/DIVORCE/INFRINGEMENT/BREACH OF CONTRACT PAPERS.

FOR THE RECORD MY AREA OF LAW IS INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY, AND A REALLY GOOD LAWYER SAVED MY OWN BUTT LAST YEAR WHEN A MULTINATIONAL WENT AFTER ME PERSONALLY FOR 360K IN DAMAGES. A VERY SIMPLE, CONCISE 21 WORD REPLY PUT THE WHOLE MATTER TO REST. IT COST ME $720 IN PROFESSIONAL FEES, AND TURNED OUT TO BE THE BEST VALUE ON THE PLANET.

YES, LAWYERS ARE OFTEN EVIL, AND OCCASSIONALLY EGO-MANIACAL, DRUG ADDICTED, CHRONICALLY DEPRESSED, SOCIAL CRETANS. THAT SAID, I'VE HAD THE PLEASURE OF WORKING WITH MANY OF THEM IN PRO BONO SITUATIONS TO PROVIDE RIGHTS AND LEGAL STATUS TO ILLEGAL ALIENS, AND PROVIDE LEGAL SERVICES TO RELUCTANT MENTALLY DISTURBED HOMELESS PEOPLE.

LAW, LIKE DISEASE, IS A FACT OF LIFE. I'D RATHER HEAL THAN BATTLE, AND THAT'S WHY I'M CONTEMPLATING THE SWITCH. NO ONE EVER WANTS TO SEE A LAWYER, OR AN ONCOLOGIST, BUT IT'S GOOD TO KNOW ONE WHEN YOU NEED ONE.

SO SHUT UP OR I'LL SUE YOU!

BIGGUY

[wolfvgang22]

HEY ALL,
I'M ABOUT TO NEWPOST MY IMPRESSIONS OF THE AMAZING TRIP I HAD TO SABA. I'M VERY GRATEFUL TO THE PEOPLE I SPOKE TO, AND ALL THE PEOPLE ON THIS FORUM WHO HAVE TAKEN TIME TO RESPOND. THANKS SO MUCH TO ALL OF YOU.

BUT BEFORE I CLOSE OUT THIS THREAD, I JUST HAVE TO DEFEND THE LEGAL PROFESSION. SURE, EVERYONE HATES LAWYERS, AND THEY HATE ALL THE ISSUES THAT SURROUND LAWYERS. LAW, BY IT'S VERY NATURE, IS A BATTLE OF REASON. BATTLES ARE OFTEN UNPLEASANT. BUT BEFORE YOU GET YOUR MD AND BECOME A LAWYER-HATING DOC, REMEMBER THAT BEHIND EVERY DOC WHO GETS SUED IN A MALPRACTICE CLAIM, IS A LAWYER FIGHTING TO PRESERVE THE PROFESSIONAL INTEGRITY OF THAT DOC. NO ONE WILL SAVE YOU MORE MONEY, TIME AND STRESS THAN A REALLY GOOD LAWYER. SO I SUGGEST THAT YOU GET TO KNOW AS MANY OF THEM AS YOU CAN. LAWYERS KNOW OTHER LAWYERS, AND REFERRALS ARE A MUCH BETTER THING THAT LETTING YOUR FINGERS DO THE WALKING THROUGH THE YELLOW PAGES WHEN YOU'VE JUST BEEN SERVED MALPRACTICE/DIVORCE/INFRINGEMENT/BREACH OF CONTRACT PAPERS.

FOR THE RECORD MY AREA OF LAW IS INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY, AND A REALLY GOOD LAWYER SAVED MY OWN BUTT LAST YEAR WHEN A MULTINATIONAL WENT AFTER ME PERSONALLY FOR 360K IN DAMAGES. A VERY SIMPLE, CONCISE 21 WORD REPLY PUT THE WHOLE MATTER TO REST. IT COST ME $720 IN PROFESSIONAL FEES, AND TURNED OUT TO BE THE BEST VALUE ON THE PLANET.
Well said!
YES, LAWYERS ARE OFTEN EVIL, AND OCCASSIONALLY EGO-MANIACAL, DRUG ADDICTED, CHRONICALLY DEPRESSED, SOCIAL CRETANS. THAT SAID, I'VE HAD THE PLEASURE OF WORKING WITH MANY OF THEM IN PRO BONO SITUATIONS

You could substitute the word "doctor" for "lawyer" here easily.

[IMDoc]

BUT BEFORE I CLOSE OUT THIS THREAD, I JUST HAVE TO DEFEND THE LEGAL PROFESSION. SURE, EVERYONE HATES LAWYERS, AND THEY HATE ALL THE ISSUES THAT SURROUND LAWYERS. LAW, BY IT'S VERY NATURE, IS A BATTLE OF REASON. BATTLES ARE OFTEN UNPLEASANT. BUT BEFORE YOU GET YOUR MD AND BECOME A LAWYER-HATING DOC, REMEMBER THAT BEHIND EVERY DOC WHO GETS SUED IN A MALPRACTICE CLAIM, IS A LAWYER FIGHTING TO PRESERVE THE PROFESSIONAL INTEGRITY OF THAT DOC. NO ONE WILL SAVE YOU MORE MONEY, TIME AND STRESS THAN A REALLY GOOD LAWYER. SO I SUGGEST THAT YOU GET TO KNOW AS MANY OF THEM AS YOU CAN. LAWYERS KNOW OTHER LAWYERS, AND REFERRALS ARE A MUCH BETTER THING THAT LETTING YOUR FINGERS DO THE WALKING THROUGH THE YELLOW PAGES WHEN YOU'VE JUST BEEN SERVED MALPRACTICE/DIVORCE/INFRINGEMENT/BREACH OF CONTRACT PAPERS.

FOR THE RECORD MY AREA OF LAW IS INTELLECTUAL PROPERTY, AND A REALLY GOOD LAWYER SAVED MY OWN BUTT LAST YEAR WHEN A MULTINATIONAL WENT AFTER ME PERSONALLY FOR 360K IN DAMAGES. A VERY SIMPLE, CONCISE 21 WORD REPLY PUT THE WHOLE MATTER TO REST. IT COST ME $720 IN PROFESSIONAL FEES, AND TURNED OUT TO BE THE BEST VALUE ON THE PLANET.

YES, LAWYERS ARE OFTEN EVIL, AND OCCASSIONALLY EGO-MANIACAL, DRUG ADDICTED, CHRONICALLY DEPRESSED, SOCIAL CRETANS. THAT SAID, I'VE HAD THE PLEASURE OF WORKING WITH MANY OF THEM IN PRO BONO SITUATIONS TO PROVIDE RIGHTS AND LEGAL STATUS TO ILLEGAL ALIENS, AND PROVIDE LEGAL SERVICES TO RELUCTANT MENTALLY DISTURBED HOMELESS PEOPLE.

LAW, LIKE DISEASE, IS A FACT OF LIFE. I'D RATHER HEAL THAN BATTLE, AND THAT'S WHY I'M CONTEMPLATING THE SWITCH. NO ONE EVER WANTS TO SEE A LAWYER, OR AN ONCOLOGIST, BUT IT'S GOOD TO KNOW ONE WHEN YOU NEED ONE.

SO SHUT UP OR I'LL SUE YOU!

BIGGUY



It sounds like you were one of the good ones. The problem with law is it is supersaturated with lawyers who have to become parasites to survive. When malpractice lawyers make millions on the backs of parents of cerebral palsey children it is disgusting. Realize that the greatest enemy of health care in this nation today is malpractice lawyers. They are the reason why OB/GYN docs don't deliver babies anymore and why some docs can't even afford to practice medicine anymore. I can appreciate your current career and good past experiences with lawyers, but I also see what they have done to the current state of health care. Not all of them are bad, but to a doctor it is difficult to tell the difference. There are bad doctors out there who need to be accountable to their actions, but there are 10 times as many parasites out there who will sue doctors regardless if there were mistakes or not. Unfortunately there are no repercussions for lawyers because law is the good old boys network. In order to sue a lawyer for malpractice another lawyer (i.e., the judge) has to decide against them. It doesn't happen very often.
I guess I am venting about lawyers, but this represents many of the current views on lawyers in the medical field. Everyone needs a good lawyer to help you out of jams like the one you talked about, but as a doctor it is difficult to trust any of them as they could destroy you and your family's livelihood!!!! Congrats to you on coming over from the dark side.

[bigguy]

Well hello again,
Lawyers don't need to change. The legislation needs to change. This country desperately needs tort reform. Doctors aren't the only ones being forced out by frivolous claims; small businesses, landlords, property owners, and sole practitioners in virtually every field, have seen their insurance costs skyrocket in recent years. In my area of intellectual property, some aspects of design and media have become virtually uninsurable.

Many states have made "caps" on certain areas of liability. We need similar measures at a federal level.

The other thing that needs to happen is that the medical profession has to sew their balls back on and start pushing back and lobbying for better protection. Doctors are obviously smart, but they're rarely good business people, and rarely political. The erosion of the profession toward socialized
medicine will continue until MDs en masse stop agreeing to accept $15 to see medicare patients. You're only worth what you'll accept as payment. Unfortunately, too many docs are willing to sell out the profession.

One very clear cut legal distinction between the JD and the MD here in New York sums up how powerless MDs have become. In New York, a lawyer can not be held to a "noncompete agreement," signed for a firm. It's void for being against public policy to limit the practice of lawyers, who are an essential component of the protection of rights of the population. MDs do not have the same protection. So, newly out of residency you could go to work in NY for a small practice, find out it's not going to generate a living for you, and then be bound to a "noncompete agreement" that would preclude you from practicing with a 150 mile radius. You'd think that allowing an MD to use his 12 years (or more) of education to benefit the public health would be favorable public policy, but docs haven't fought for it, so they can still be held to "noncompete agreements."

Lawyers are not exceptionally greedy....everyone is greedy. The same mentality that drives someone to sue for medical malpractice is the same mentality that drives someone to sue for whiplash. It's the same mentality that allows a victim of sexual abuse by a priest to collect a multi-million dollar judgement, knowing full well that the money is coming directly from the purses and wallets of a blameless congregation.

A lawyer is neither judge, nor jury. They merely stand in the place of the plaintiff, and are required under the ethical rules, to fight for their party to the best of their ability.....even if that means being evil and ruthless. Sure, there are lots of lawyers pushing reluctant plaintiffs forward to sue, because they want their 30% of the judgement, but without a greedy plaintiff, a greedy lawyer can't do anything.

Yes, I've done some nice things for some people, but I've also held some people painfully accountable for their actions or inactions. That's what I'm paid to do, and that's what I swore an oath to do. The problem isn't the profession, it's the reluctance of congress to rewrite the law.

I'm beginning to think we may need couples therapy.

BIGGUY

[wolfvgang22]

:lol: You must be a good lawyer as well as you write. :lol:
Personally, I think big insurance companies are at least one or two notches more evil than lawyers.
What's the biggest industry in the United States again in revenue?
Hint: It's not law

[Audio]

Arms? :P

[Siddman]

Personally, I think big insurance companies are at least one or two notches more evil than lawyers.

I totally concur.....over here in Toronto, Canada...the car insurance is so high that it can be seen only meant for rich people.....just to give you an example....for a 1992 Honda Accord...it can be as much as $250 a month....and if you compare that to Montreal ....its $50/month.... i don’t know why such a big difference....but that is how they are running the business here in Toronto....


Siddman

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Faith it seems, is not without a touch of irony

[bigguy]

Yes, that's a concept I can completely agree with. The insurance industry is the anti-Christ. My professional liabilty policy has so many pages of exclusions, that it's practically as big as the New Testament. Sometimes, just for a chuckle, I read through it and use my creative abilities to think of far fetched scenarios that the policy would actually cover. God knows, that like virtually every policy written today, it won't cover anything that has a reasonable chance of happening. Insurance today is like the "bumper to bumper warrantee" you get with a new car....it doesn't cover any part that has a chance of wearing out. The insurance industry is making a killing selling sham policies that cover virtually nothing. It's disturbing to me that the goverment is so concerned about the fact that over the counter herbs like Ephedra (which is now off the shelf in NY) may harm a minute portion of the population, but virtually unconcerned that almost every citizen is getting ripped off by the insurance industry. Apparently the governments unofficial policy is "Thugs not drugs."

Bigguy

[JD-NS]

My insurance is $650/yr to drive my parent's vehicles which are each over 10yrs old...

[ResearchingGuy]

Almost off track here, but the cost of a tag and auto insurance on Saba is minimal. I recall the tag being somewhere in the range of $100 per year and insurance being around $175 per year.

Gasoline is the biggie - somewhere in the neighborhood of $4 per gallon. Even so, I only filled up about every three weeks.

Best of Luck!

(NO, I'm totally off track with this post. Gotta stop reading the last page first. Hope you found the info you were looking for in Saba BIGGUY. Speaking of reading insurance policies - I had a great time reading the exclusions to my health insurance policy the other day - pretty much excludes anything to do with my personal health. Wolf, the answer to your question is... Medicine! TTFN y'all!)

[Bruce]

Whatever happened the "BIGGUY"????? Did he ever enroll?? I realize this post is over a year and a half old but it made for a good read....

[islandhopper]

Whatever happened the "BIGGUY"????? Did he ever enroll?? I realize this post is over a year and a half old but it made for a good read....
If you do a search, you'll know he started last Sept. If he's still there, he's doing his third semester.