UHSA students

[crunch]

Many times people here have enquired about anyone who has been licensed after completing the advanced standing program through UHSA (I hesitate to say "online" since only about 10-15% of the program is online - all the basic sciences except3 classes are done in classrooms for everyone - although there is some credit given for advanced standing. As well, the rest of the online portion only augments the 4,400 clinical hands-on hours that have to be one in ACGME hospitals).

http://www.mlive.com/business/fljournal/index.ssf?/base/business-2/1107705046326130.xml

You will see a graduate of advanced standing who is now vice president and cheif medical officer of a United States hospital.

I give Azseptic 12 hours before he is writing the state board there, telling them his fabrications about how it is a fraudulant degree, it was an "online " correspondance type course, how UHSA grads cannot get licensed in Antigua, blah blah blah blah lie.

AZ - how much do these other off-shore schools pay to have you make these things up?

[azskeptic]

Many times people here have enquired about anyone who has been licensed after completing the advanced standing program through UHSA (I hesitate to say "online" since only about 10-15% of the program is online - all the basic sciences except3 classes are done in classrooms for everyone - although there is some credit given for advanced standing. As well, the rest of the online portion only augments the 4,400 clinical hands-on hours that have to be one in ACGME hospitals).

http://www.mlive.com/business/fljournal/index.ssf?/base/business-2/1107705046326130.xml

You will see a graduate of advanced standing who is now vice president and cheif medical officer of a United States hospital.

I give Azseptic 12 hours before he is writing the state board there, telling them his fabrications about how it is a fraudulant degree, it was an "online " correspondance type course, how UHSA grads cannot get licensed in Antigua, blah blah blah blah lie.

AZ - how much do these other off-shore schools pay to have you make these things up?

The graduate is licensed as a DO,not an MD....but you knew that,eh?

No one has paid me anything about Antigua. Who pays you?

[crunch]

Well, you don't know that since you have not had time to check out how he was licensed so you are stating your assumption.

Whether or not he is licensed as an MD, the hospital no doubt did a thorough check on him and felt impressed enough with his credentials to do this news release.

My patients pay me. For example last week I spent 38 hours in the hospital performing rotations for medical school (UHSA) and 27 hours in my chiropractic office treating patients. Which will explain why I will probbly not post on here again until the weekend or later - I am busy. I do things other than piddle on the computer all day. I have a family which I support (been married for over 15 years - first and only marraige - no ugly marraige failures in my past), plus I usually put in around 40 hours per week on my medical training.

[lswiltshire]

For the real truth about UHSA licensure
[Please go to

http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=4609&messageid=1051331820

and
http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=4609&messageid=1052494868 for additional original text]

for dentist defends his offshore degree from UHSA go to
http://pitch.com/issues/2004-06-17/stline.html

http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=4609&messageid=1087421269

Many folk besides Azskeptic have gone thru the horrors of divorce.

If you are lucky to be married as long as you have godown and thank God.

Divorce does not mean that one is a failure- only that ones marriage has failed. Perhaps Azskeptics second marriage is better for him, and he is truly happy this time.

But his failed marriage, and his penchant for piddling at the computer has nothing to do with the quality of medical education at UHSA. or the truths about what the boards think about UHSA.

It is unfortunate that so many of you short cut takers who have not been licensed would not come and tell the truth about your post UHSA experience.

Thanks for giving another name that we can be revealed to the authorities to have them know that they can not use their UHSA degree

[Picard]

Another half-truth by UHSA. Here's how the good doctor is licensed. He is licensed as a DO from Kirksville COM -- the very first Osteopathic medical school in the US. Father/founder of Osteopathy Dr. A.T. Still is buried on campus. I know because I've seen their campus. And it's a great osteopathic school.
Here's the link to Michigan's licensure verification system.

http://www.cis.state.mi.us/free/publicinfo.asp?rb_name=ON&rb_facility=&l_person_id =54631&l_profession_id=51&l_license_id=54754&Last_ Name=BONBRISCO&First_Name=DANIEL&License_number=&F acility_Name=&DBA_Name=&profession=0&offset=0

Without a DO degree to be licensed, the guy would NOT be able to do what he does now, no matter how "impressive" his UHSA MD degree is. His MD degree means absolutely nothing in his licensure. It's sad that UHSA students are trying to claim this as a "success" story in licensure for it's advanced standing program. His MD degree is worthless.

BTW, Botsford General Hospital is an OSTEOPATHIC teaching hospital for the Michigan state Univ of Osteopathic Medicine where Dr. Bonbrisco is on faculty.
http://www.botsfordsystem.org/corp/bgh.htm
You really think that an osteopathic medical school is "impressed" with his worthless MD degree from UHSA? I'm sure they are much more impressed that Dr. Bonbrisco went to one of the best Osteopathic schools in the country. And look at how Dr. Bonbrisco is listed in his medical group -- he doesn't even list his UHSA degree...
http://www.mclaren.org/body.cfm?id=107
http://www.yourowndoctor.com/aboutus.asp?site=10063&doc=10080

McLaren Flushing Community Medical Center - Flushing
2487 N. Elms Rd.
Flushing, MI 48433
(810) 487-3500

Daniel Bonbrisco, D.O. (Family Practice)
Abeer Fayyad, M.D. (Internal Medicine)
Brenda Rogers-Gray, D.O. (Family Practice)
Mark Gunderson, M.D. (Family Practice)
Jennifer Larson, M.D. (Family Practice)
Dennis Lloyd, D.O. (Family Practice)
Angie Sweeney, M.D. (Family Practice)
Louinda Zahdeh, M.D. (Family Practice)


Yeah, another poor attempt by UHSA to mislead others.

Well, you don't know that since you have not had time to check out how he was licensed so you are stating your assumption.

And BTW, it only took me 3 minutes to find the above info. I guess they don't teach evidence-based practice either in the chiropractic school or at UHSA...

P

[Picard]

For example last week I spent 38 hours in the hospital performing rotations for medical school (UHSA) and 27 hours in my chiropractic office treating patients. Which will explain why I will probbly not post on here again until the weekend or later - I am busy.

Let see, outside employments are generally prohibited by US schools while on rotation -- for a good reason.

Typical medical student spend about 60 hours in the hospital per week while on rotation, more when on core rotations with call. How do I know? I went through medical school, and I now teach medical students (US, foreign, and DO students) as an attending physician. And since I'm assuming you are not practicing chiropractics at 2 a.m., I'm assuming you are working as a chiropractor during the daytime when you should be in the hospital learning....

Oh, and the "advanced standing" program at UHSA reportedly awards it's MD degree in 18 months -- 1.5 years, INCLUDING it's crash course in basic science. A real clinical training in a real medical school takes two years by iteslf. So, how does the advanced standing program provide equivalent clinical training again?

And this guy claims that there are 4400 clinical hours that need to be accomplished. Well, he does 38 hours a week (let's give them 40). This would take 110 weeks to complete without vacation -- 2.1 years. Now, how does an advanced standing student earn his/her degree in 18 months and fulfill the above requirement... we haven't counted the basic scinece time supposedly took place yet. Let's say that the basic science takes place in the first 6 months... that leaves one year to finish this suppose 4400 hour clinicals -- that would mean working 85 hours per week without break for the entire year (which is logistically impossible in any teaching hospital) -- umm, this good chiropractor only spends 38 hours and had time to work as a DC in between... I guess the laws of physics and linear time does not apply to UHSA students...

P

[lswiltshire]

MUNCH MUNCH

Picard has eaten crunch for lunch!

I have a hunch

the LIAR is CRUNCH!


Picard, you didnt have to hit he so hard though.......WOW

You mash he up with that argument. I love it.

[crunch]

The 18 month time period is something that was made up in the article that was quoted by AZseptic regarding the overland park dentist. Nobody can finish the program in 18 months. Your math is right, it would take over 2 years to finish the clinical requirements if doing 40 hours per week. And since I had to take basic sciences through the school, it will definately have taken me more than 2 years.

The 18 months is what is stated by the newspaper article, not me

[Picard]

NO, the 18 months timeframe is from IUHS"s website, for "OMFS trained" DENTISTS. Look at it yourself. In your case, your DC training put you in their 27 months curriculum... rather than re-post what I've said in another thread, here's the quote from my posts...


First of all, AMA does not regulate medical school rotations. Each individual state licensing boards do. Residencies are regulated by RRC (Residency Review Committe), a part of ACGME.

Unless the OMFS resident is going through the combined OMFS/MD program in a few places that still offer them, they do not get credit for their residency trainings when they go back to medical school. Why? Because these Combined OMFS/MD residencies are designed to provide medical school education to dentists, so they are properly accredited. Normal OMFS residency for dentist (only 4 years long) do NOT prepare the dentist in medical school trainings. This is why they do not count. I trained in a hospital with stand-alone OMFS residency training and had worked with OMFS resident dentists. They do NOT get any significant amount of clinical training outside of their OMFS surgical training. They virtually spend their entire residency in the operating room working on a VERY, VERY limited territory -- OMFS. They don't even get any significant training in general surgery, let along any other medical specialties. And when they do, very rarely, rotate through other services, they are treated as an observer most of the time because they simply do not have enough background in medicine to function in any other specialty. I know because I have worked with these residents. So it is still very, very, very, very OBSURD for IUHS to grant ANY sort of clinical rotation credit for these OMFS trained DENTIST for the purpose of medical school training. This is partly why none of these DENTIST are eligible for licensure in any state as MD's. So, no, it makes absolutely NO sense for these dentist to receive their MD degree in 18 months. Heck, even in combined OMFS/MD programs in the US, the additional time for these OMFS dental residents is 2 to 3 years!! NOT 18 months.

Oh, as for DC's, I looked it up on IUHS's website. The curriculum is 27 months long (regardless of how long it actually takes crunch) -- And, since he is claiming that his clinical training is 2 years long. This means, he went through basic science in 3 months!! Now, name ONE medical school in the US that grant ANY advance credit for chiropractors, let along allow a 3 months basic science curriculum for chiropractors. If you think you will be licensed legitimately (ie without your school playing games on your "transcript" template to make it look otherwise) with only 3 months of basic science claiming DC training -- you are in for a rude awakening... keep up your DC license, it will be the only one you can legally have.

Oh, and one favorite thing IUHS folks love to compare their program to is Drexel University (formerly Hahneman). Well, first of all, Drexel is about the ONLY US school left that still has provisions on the books for dental students/dentists to be admitted with advanced standing. This is NOT a popular thing to do in US medical schools dispite claims from IUHS. Even for Drexel, this practice is EXTREMELY RARE. And most of these dental/dentist students do NOT finish medical schools any sooner than 4 years. A very, very, very, very rare student can finish it in 3. Most of these RARE "advanced standing" candidates merely were allowed to test out a few subjects. How do I know this -- I called Drexel and asked. When I told them that IUHS is claiming to model it's advanced standing program after theirs, they nearly busted out laughing.

So, any way you look at it, IUHS distance learning/advanced standing programs are still just that -- worthless.


P

[azskeptic]

regular medical student

http://www.mommd.com/whattoexpect.shtml

UHSA

http://www.uhsa.ag/pstudent/dc/ntpath.htm

somehow I don't want to wakeup on a gurney with someone who learned via the internet helping.

[lswiltshire]

Look what I found today CRUNCH about UHSA - the EDUCATIONAL TERRORIST?

Have you recieved these email too CRUNCH?

Have you contributed your $1000 too?

CRUNCH CRUNCH

MUNCH MUNCH

MANY ARE READY TO EAT UHSA IN COURT FOR LUNCH


Im saving up to ensure I can travel to the court wherever it is to tell what I know about this bogus rat hole called a med school.

[warrior]

what e-mail?

what are you talking about?

[lswiltshire]

i forgot to copy the url where i found the note

here it is

http://www.network54.com/Forum/message?forumid=156286&messageid=1109960112

[warrior]

:lol:

Thank you.

[lswiltshire]

take a look at this article on antigua UHSA
MD'/Dentists
http://www.dentalwatch.org/edu/uhsa.html

[crunch]

take a look at this article on antigua UHSA
MD'/Dentists
http://www.dentalwatch.org/edu/uhsa.html

Yeah another "credible" article written by ex-doctor Barrett. I like this article written about ex-Dr.Barrett:
More on Barrett
I've Finally Met Stephen Barrett...

Opinion by Consumer Advocate Tim Bolen

Thursday, July 29th, 2004

*

I've Finally Met Stephen Barrett... *And, I'm underwhelmed.

I was in Allentown, PA yesterday at a hearing where delicensed MD Stephen Barrett was testifying. *I was there to testify against him, as an "impeachment" witness, should it be necessary. *Barrett was trying to convince a three judge hearing panel that there is a conspiracy against him to defame him, and prevent him from continuing his so-called "anti-quackery" work. *Barrett's testimony was as pathetic as his personal appearance.

I find it difficult to accept that in our modern society, an adult male, claiming to be an industry professional, would show up in a legal hearing seven weeks beyond a haircut, and ten days beyond the last time he washed his hair.

Have I got it wrong, or is it an automatic thing to bathe every day? *Maybe it's just me, but I feel better after a shower. *More ready to take on the day - especially if I'm going to be in public. *I even comb my hair...

But top self-proclaimed "quackbusters" don't seem to share that habit. *Every time I see National Council Against Health Fraud president Bobbie Baratz, I'm reminded of that rule; "if you're going to shop for clothing at the Salvation Army store, try everything on..."

But, Stephen Barrett? *The man who authors quackwatch.com, the "quackbusters bible?" *He, who claims that the efforts of the health professionals responsible for more than half of the total US health dollar are "quackery," showed up in a hearing, yesterday, with his DIRTY, GREASY, hair tufted over his ears like one of those characters from the Star Wars series. *And, I'm sure, his shoes haven't seen the polish cloth in the year 2004. *Or, maybe even 2003.

I was in Barrett's presence for four hours yesterday, and in all that time he couldn't make eye contact with me. *He knew who I was. *He was told, ahead of time, *I'd be there to confront him.

Do you suppose my freshly dry-cleaned suit intimidated him?

The Essence of Barrett...

Barrett, in his claims across the North American Court System, plies the idea that he is being "conspired" against. *And, he says I, Tim Bolen, am leading the conspiracy. *Barrett, the man who called two-time Nobel prize winner Linus Pauling a "quack," finds it difficult to believe that a significant number of North Americans would, independently, find his views on modern health care *"more than a little weird."

Barrett, according to his testimony yesterday, believes that a significant number of persons on the North American continent are "out to get him..." *He claims he's so upset about this he spends ten percent of his time worrying and thinking about this problem. *He claims he even had an automobile accident, he was so upset about this....

It is obvious from Barrett's testimony that he doesn't like my criticism of him and his so-called "anti-quackery" claims. *Too bad...

This is America. *Here, if you want to hit people, you're going to get hit back...

In short - I've met, and measured, Stephen Barrett. *About that confrontation I have to say, in street language, "he ain't much..."

Stay tuned...

Tim Bolen - Consumer Advocate

[crunch]

Look what I found today CRUNCH about UHSA - the EDUCATIONAL TERRORIST?

Have you recieved these email too CRUNCH?

Have you contributed your $1000 too?

CRUNCH CRUNCH

MUNCH MUNCH

MANY ARE READY TO EAT UHSA IN COURT FOR LUNCH


Im saving up to ensure I can travel to the court wherever it is to tell what I know about this bogus rat hole called a med school.

No not yet. But I am sure you are obviously aware of the legal papers served by the UHSA school attorneys to some "prominent" valueMD posters. Which is step 1 of probably 100 steps. The students legal funds will probably just be used to clean up the mess with some additional suits, before the attorneys move on to others who have slandered and libled the school.

Humpty Dumpty talked alot of smack
then the attorneys threw the eggman, crack on his back
all his supporters and all that he did post
couldn't keep him from getting fried and served up with toast

The court room wheels turn slowly, as certain deadbeat dads know who spend a decade in court in messy divorces (not to name any names), and eventually can grind someone up.

So keep talking smack....time will tell....as I have said before ...time will tell.


CRUNCH

[crunch]

where delicensed MD Stephen Barrett was testifying. *

I love that ...... "de-licensed".

[azskeptic]

Look what I found today CRUNCH about UHSA - the EDUCATIONAL TERRORIST?

Have you recieved these email too CRUNCH?

Have you contributed your $1000 too?

CRUNCH CRUNCH

MUNCH MUNCH

MANY ARE READY TO EAT UHSA IN COURT FOR LUNCH


Im saving up to ensure I can travel to the court wherever it is to tell what I know about this bogus rat hole called a med school.

No not yet. But I am sure you are obviously aware of the legal papers served by the UHSA school attorneys to some "prominent" valueMD posters. Which is step 1 of probably 100 steps. The students legal funds will probably just be used to clean up the mess with some additional suits, before the attorneys move on to others who have slandered and libled the school.

Humpty Dumpty talked alot of smack
then the attorneys threw the eggman, crack on his back
all his supporters and all that he did post
couldn't keep him from getting fried and served up with toast

The court room wheels turn slowly, as certain deadbeat dads know who spend a decade in court in messy divorces (not to name any names), and eventually can grind someone up.

So keep talking smack....time will tell....as I have said before ...time will tell.


CRUNCH

hmmmm....let's guess who you are talking about there. I won't dignify your attack with even looking at that.

No papers served here but threats don't scare me either because the truth is always the best defense. Perhaps UHSA should spend its money helping its people who are losing court cases in terms of using their degrees.

Using Tim Bolen as your attack on Dr. Barrett is pretty weak. Informed people might want to read about the background of both individuals to see which one is respected by respectable organizations and which one isn't. It is easy to do that via the internet.

[azskeptic]

where delicensed MD Stephen Barrett was testifying. *

I love that ...... "de-licensed".

Yes, it isn't true of course but for those who don't know better it looks good. He is a prominent retired psychiatrist who has received many awards for his work in fighting quackery and healthfraud,such as the page shown.

[crunch]

AZskeptic, whats your current opinion of UHSA?

[azskeptic]

AZskeptic, whats your current opinion of UHSA?

From the states who have disapproved its graduates and the court documents I've read in the Dr. Thomas case and from what I've read in the AMA articles I believe it isn't where I would want to send my children or recommend anyone else send theirs or themselves.

What is your opinion?

[crunch]

Based on my personal experience, and after sharing my experience and other information with my brother who is a department chair in a surgery speciality at a major US medical school , and has taught academic surgery at medical schools for over a decade- and obtaining his opinion, and hearing and reading the opinions of my clinical professors at hospitals here in the USA (all of whom teach for other medical schools and therefore have a good base to compare my performance with other medical students), and hearing the experience of fellow classmates of mine who are currently in or finishing residency - it is a good program. It produces well educated and highly capable doctors.

What other states, besides California, currently disallow UHSA graduates?

It may be a week or so before I reply. I am in a surgical rotation now, and have a life,am married and have a family, and serve in other organizations and cannot spend all day piddling on the computer.

[crunch]

who has received many awards for his work in fighting quackery and healthfraud,such as the page shown.

Awards from who?

[crunch]

From the states who have disapproved its graduates and the court documents I've read in the Dr. Thomas case and from what I've read in the AMA articles I believe it isn't where I would want to send my children or recommend anyone else send theirs or themselves.


Although extremely pressed for time, I found my mind just kept coming back to this post. I find it extremely interesting....interesting in its blandness. This coming from someone who is "fearless".

In order to get more to the point let me ask a few more questions;
What do you think of UHSA and its training? In other words, would you not recommend it to your children or anyone else because UHSA is (as you have incorrectly claimed in the past : 1) "nearly completely online" 2) "accepts advanced standing from dentists , foreign medical students etc and that United States medical schools only accept transfer credits from other USA medical schools" 3) "that UHSA students learn medicine from the luxury of their homes."

You have made these exact statements before, and I want to see if you still stand by them. I know you have been served papers to the truth about the UHSA program and training from UHSA's attorneys. You have no excuse for not knowing the truth at this point. You have every opportunity by now to know that only about 700 hours of many thousands of hours total of the entire program is via online internet learning - much of it through interactive live time classes, supervised by medical instructors who also teach at United States medical schools like Temple University..

By now you have every opportunity to know that every UHSA student has to complete 4,400 clinical hours minimum. If they devote themselves to doing 40-45 hours per week this can be done in 24 months. It is shorter for those that have already completed AMA approved medical residencies (like OMS/dental surgeons). Again that is AMA approved medical residencies.

So - would you NOT recommend the program because you claim its "completely entirely done online, from the luxury of someones home - and that other USA medical schools allow transfer credits from dentists, foreign medical students etc where as no legitmate United States medical school would do so " ? Do you claim this now? You have adequate information on the program - are you willing to stand by your claims?

As far as Dr.Thomas court case - its already been shown the reason he had court problems is not that he attended UHSA - but because he used the MD letters without doing the additional training required for licensure - the same thing would have been true if he had gone to Harvard or Yale medical schools. You have to get licensed after complete residency in his state to use the MD credentials. It had nothing to do with UHSA - as the newspaper author tried to claim.

Also what court cases are there of graduates not getting licensed? Specifically show me court docket cases - I know I can do that with a quick search through public records...like Maricopa court systems for restraining orders etc issued against dads in arrears for not paying court ordered child support. I mean - I know of UHSA graduates licensed in Indiana, Pennsylvania and many many other states. What court cases - you said it, so get specific and provide a public record link please.

Again - do you NOT recommend UHSA because it is a degree anyone can earn from the luxury of their home, completely online, simply by writing a check - as you have previously written? Do you stand by these statements or so you now say they are false? Its one way or the other AZskeptic.... do you stand by these claims or do you admit they are false?

==============================================
AZskeptic writes : "I believe that some online education is/will be accepted but IUHS and UHSA programs are nearly completely online per their websites. " Link : http://www.valuemd.com/ftopic21229.html&highlight=internet+computer+uhsa& sid=c5f048feb596c661c72141c7a5c48f3c


AZskeptic writes : "he had 'attended' the University of Health Sciences-Antigua www.uhsa.com which offers advanced standing to chiropractors,
podiatrists, dentists, nurses, pharmacists, veterinarians, and allows
them to attend 'virtually' via the internet. One has to realize that
this is not like any US medical school because legitimate schools only
allow people to transfer in credit from other approved medical
schools."

Link :
http://www.valuemd.com/ftopic22814.html&highlight=internet+computer+uhsa& sid=c5f048feb596c661c72141c7a5c48f3c

AZskeptic writes : "from the luxury of their homes or offices, these people are called MD's"
Link: http://www.valuemd.com/medschool/usmleforum.php?url=http://www.internetmedicalschool.homestead.com

[crunch]

AZskeptic has stated numerous times that legitimate United States medical schools only accept advanced standing from other United States medical schools. This is not true. It is entirely up to the school and each school varies greatly in the United States.

Example # 1 ) Brown university states " Students who are currently enrolled in an accredited school of allopathic or osteopathic medicine located in the United States or Canada, and Rhode Island residents who are currently enrolled in a W.H.O.-accredited medical school outside the United States or Canada are eligible to apply. " Link : http://bms.brown.edu/admissions/advancestand.html

They do not accept advanced standing to dentists, but they do with foriegn medical students whose schools are listed in WHO. Whether or not Brown would accept a UHSA student is irrelevant, even though UHSA is listed in the WHO book. Nonetheless this is a 'legitimate" United States medical school that accepts transfer credits for schools outside the United States - so again AZskeptic is wrong.

Example # 2) Another United States "legitimate" medical school accepts advanced standing from "Students in foreign medical schools listed in the WHO directory as well as dental students"
Link : http://www.drexel.edu/med/mdprogram/Advanced_Standing_Requirements.pdf

Again AZskeptic is wrong.

Example # 3) The University of Miami (another "legitimate" United States medical school) does not accept advanced standing from ANY other medical school - nada...zip...zilch. Not ANY other medical school.
Link : http://www.miami.edu/UMH/CDA/UMH_Main/1,1770,2600-1;31872-3,00.html

Each school has its own standards. Many accept transfer credits from foreign medical students listed in WHO directory (again UHSA is listed in the WHO directory). It is common for United States to grant advanced standing to dentists and more so oral surgeons.

AZskeptic is soooooo wrong. Almost everything he posts is wrong or twisted. This board obviously encourages him, aids him and is partnered with him - as they make him a moderator of his own board. I am amazed that nobody seems to care if what he posts is false, innaccurate or wrong.

But it is. There is probably no less reliable source of information actively posting on the internet than AZskeptic.

[lswiltshire]

Do you really think that any of the BASIC SCIENCES can be taught in one month as is done at Dow Hill?

Eg PATHOLOGY

or PHARMACOLOGY

Im not talking about the book stuff, Im talking about helping students to understand the material so that they can later apply it in the clinical arena?

[azskeptic]

AZskeptic has stated numerous times that legitimate United States medical schools only accept advanced standing from other United States medical schools. This is not true. It is entirely up to the school and each school varies greatly in the United States.

Example # 1 ) Brown university states " Students who are currently enrolled in an accredited school of allopathic or osteopathic medicine located in the United States or Canada, and Rhode Island residents who are currently enrolled in a W.H.O.-accredited medical school outside the United States or Canada are eligible to apply. " Link : http://bms.brown.edu/admissions/advancestand.html

They do not accept advanced standing to dentists, but they do with foriegn medical students whose schools are listed in WHO. Whether or not Brown would accept a UHSA student is irrelevant, even though UHSA is listed in the WHO book. Nonetheless this is a 'legitimate" United States medical school that accepts transfer credits for schools outside the United States - so again AZskeptic is wrong.

Example # 2) Another United States "legitimate" medical school accepts advanced standing from "Students in foreign medical schools listed in the WHO directory as well as dental students"
Link : http://www.drexel.edu/med/mdprogram/Advanced_Standing_Requirements.pdf

Again AZskeptic is wrong.

Example # 3) The University of Miami (another "legitimate" United States medical school) does not accept advanced standing from ANY other medical school - nada...zip...zilch. Not ANY other medical school.
Link : http://www.miami.edu/UMH/CDA/UMH_Main/1,1770,2600-1;31872-3,00.html

Each school has its own standards. Many accept transfer credits from foreign medical students listed in WHO directory (again UHSA is listed in the WHO directory). It is common for United States to grant advanced standing to dentists and more so oral surgeons.

AZskeptic is soooooo wrong. Almost everything he posts is wrong or twisted. This board obviously encourages him, aids him and is partnered with him - as they make him a moderator of his own board. I am amazed that nobody seems to care if what he posts is false, innaccurate or wrong.

But it is. There is probably no less reliable source of information actively posting on the internet than AZskeptic.

You are incorrect in so many spots here I will have to wait until tomorrow to post what is real.

[azskeptic]

who has received many awards for his work in fighting quackery and healthfraud,such as the page shown.

Awards from who?

Glad you asked:

http://chealth.canoe.ca/columnist.asp?show=detail&columnistid=3

http://www.time.com/time/archive/preview/0,10987,1101010430-107254,00.html

[azskeptic]

AZskeptic has stated numerous times that legitimate United States medical schools only accept advanced standing from other United States medical schools. This is not true. It is entirely up to the school and each school varies greatly in the United States.

Example # 1 ) Brown university states " Students who are currently enrolled in an accredited school of allopathic or osteopathic medicine located in the United States or Canada, and Rhode Island residents who are currently enrolled in a W.H.O.-accredited medical school outside the United States or Canada are eligible to apply. " Link : http://bms.brown.edu/admissions/advancestand.html

They do not accept advanced standing to dentists, but they do with foriegn medical students whose schools are listed in WHO. Whether or not Brown would accept a UHSA student is irrelevant, even though UHSA is listed in the WHO book. Nonetheless this is a 'legitimate" United States medical school that accepts transfer credits for schools outside the United States - so again AZskeptic is wrong. FIND OUT HOW MANY FOREIGN MED SCHOOL TRANSFERS THEY'VE DONE. THAT WILL ANSWER YOUR QUESTION. They and all other schools do not accept chiropractors credits,like your own, as sufficing for the science portion as your school apparently does.

Example # 2) Another United States "legitimate" medical school accepts advanced standing from "Students in foreign medical schools listed in the WHO directory as well as dental students"
Link : http://www.drexel.edu/med/mdprogram/Advanced_Standing_Requirements.pdf

Again AZskeptic is wrong.

Example # 3) The University of Miami (another "legitimate" United States medical school) does not accept advanced standing from ANY other medical school - nada...zip...zilch. Not ANY other medical school.
Link : http://www.miami.edu/UMH/CDA/UMH_Main/1,1770,2600-1;31872-3,00.html

Each school has its own standards. Many accept transfer credits from foreign medical students listed in WHO directory (again UHSA is listed in the WHO directory). It is common for United States to grant advanced standing to dentists and more so oral surgeons. FIND ANY MEDICAL SCHOOL THAT ACCEPTS DENTAL GRADUATES AFTER THEY GRADUATE INTO THEIR MEDICAL SCHOOLS AND RECOGNIZES THEIR DENTAL CREDITS. DOESn"T HAPPEN

AZskeptic is soooooo wrong. Almost everything he posts is wrong or twisted. This board obviously encourages him, aids him and is partnered with him - as they make him a moderator of his own board. I am amazed that nobody seems to care if what he posts is false, innaccurate or wrong.

But it is. There is probably no less reliable source of information actively posting on the internet than AZskeptic.

You are incorrect in so many spots here I will have to wait until tomorrow to post what is real.

[azskeptic]

From the states who have disapproved its graduates and the court documents I've read in the Dr. Thomas case and from what I've read in the AMA articles I believe it isn't where I would want to send my children or recommend anyone else send theirs or themselves.


Although extremely pressed for time, I found my mind just kept coming back to this post. I find it extremely interesting....interesting in its blandness. This coming from someone who is "fearless".

In order to get more to the point let me ask a few more questions;
What do you think of UHSA and its training? In other words, would you not recommend it to your children or anyone else because UHSA is (as you have incorrectly claimed in the past : 1) "nearly completely online" 2) "accepts advanced standing from dentists , foreign medical students etc and that United States medical schools only accept transfer credits from other USA medical schools" 3) "that UHSA students learn medicine from the luxury of their homes."

You have made these exact statements before, and I want to see if you still stand by them. I know you have been served papers to the truth about the UHSA program and training from UHSA's attorneys. You have no excuse for not knowing the truth at this point. You have every opportunity by now to know that only about 700 hours of many thousands of hours total of the entire program is via online internet learning - much of it through interactive live time classes, supervised by medical instructors who also teach at United States medical schools like Temple University..

By now you have every opportunity to know that every UHSA student has to complete 4,400 clinical hours minimum. If they devote themselves to doing 40-45 hours per week this can be done in 24 months. It is shorter for those that have already completed AMA approved medical residencies (like OMS/dental surgeons). Again that is AMA approved medical residencies.

So - would you NOT recommend the program because you claim its "completely entirely done online, from the luxury of someones home - and that other USA medical schools allow transfer credits from dentists, foreign medical students etc where as no legitmate United States medical school would do so " ? Do you claim this now? You have adequate information on the program - are you willing to stand by your claims?

As far as Dr.Thomas court case - its already been shown the reason he had court problems is not that he attended UHSA - but because he used the MD letters without doing the additional training required for licensure - the same thing would have been true if he had gone to Harvard or Yale medical schools. You have to get licensed after complete residency in his state to use the MD credentials. It had nothing to do with UHSA - as the newspaper author tried to claim.

Also what court cases are there of graduates not getting licensed? Specifically show me court docket cases - I know I can do that with a quick search through public records...like Maricopa court systems for restraining orders etc issued against dads in arrears for not paying court ordered child support. I mean - I know of UHSA graduates licensed in Indiana, Pennsylvania and many many other states. What court cases - you said it, so get specific and provide a public record link please.

Again - do you NOT recommend UHSA because it is a degree anyone can earn from the luxury of their home, completely online, simply by writing a check - as you have previously written? Do you stand by these statements or so you now say they are false? Its one way or the other AZskeptic.... do you stand by these claims or do you admit they are false?

==============================================
AZskeptic writes : "I believe that some online education is/will be accepted but IUHS and UHSA programs are nearly completely online per their websites. " Link : http://www.valuemd.com/ftopic21229.html&highlight=internet+computer+uhsa& sid=c5f048feb596c661c72141c7a5c48f3c


AZskeptic writes : "he had 'attended' the University of Health Sciences-Antigua www.uhsa.com which offers advanced standing to chiropractors,
podiatrists, dentists, nurses, pharmacists, veterinarians, and allows
them to attend 'virtually' via the internet. One has to realize that
this is not like any US medical school because legitimate schools only
allow people to transfer in credit from other approved medical
schools."

Link :
http://www.valuemd.com/ftopic22814.html&highlight=internet+computer+uhsa& sid=c5f048feb596c661c72141c7a5c48f3c

AZskeptic writes : "from the luxury of their homes or offices, these people are called MD's"
Link: http://www.valuemd.com/medschool/usmleforum.php?url=http://www.internetmedicalschool.homestead.com

Read the quote from the Judge on his education.

http://www.dentalwatch.org/reg/thomas.html

Read the website at www.uhsa.com about what they require of chiropractors. You do have a minimum of 7 days required attendance at the school which doesn't make it completely distance learning I suppose.
In Dr. Thomas's case above I believe he testified he was on campus for 8 weeks.

By the way find a school in Carib. that will allow you to transfer your advanced standing as a chiropractor from UHSA to them: can you do it? Enlighten us all on how it works; can you transfer to SGU,ROSS,AUC, SMU,Windsor, St. James, MUA, Saba?

This is a learning process for us all. Stick with us, Crunch, and teach us what you know.

[azskeptic]

From the states who have disapproved its graduates and the court documents I've read in the Dr. Thomas case and from what I've read in the AMA articles I believe it isn't where I would want to send my children or recommend anyone else send theirs or themselves.


Although extremely pressed for time, I found my mind just kept coming back to this post. I find it extremely interesting....interesting in its blandness. This coming from someone who is "fearless".

In order to get more to the point let me ask a few more questions;
What do you think of UHSA and its training? In other words, would you not recommend it to your children or anyone else because UHSA is (as you have incorrectly claimed in the past : 1) "nearly completely online" 2) "accepts advanced standing from dentists , foreign medical students etc and that United States medical schools only accept transfer credits from other USA medical schools" 3) "that UHSA students learn medicine from the luxury of their homes."

You have made these exact statements before, and I want to see if you still stand by them. I know you have been served papers to the truth about the UHSA program and training from UHSA's attorneys. You have no excuse for not knowing the truth at this point. You have every opportunity by now to know that only about 700 hours of many thousands of hours total of the entire program is via online internet learning - much of it through interactive live time classes, supervised by medical instructors who also teach at United States medical schools like Temple University..

By now you have every opportunity to know that every UHSA student has to complete 4,400 clinical hours minimum. If they devote themselves to doing 40-45 hours per week this can be done in 24 months. It is shorter for those that have already completed AMA approved medical residencies (like OMS/dental surgeons). Again that is AMA approved medical residencies.

So - would you NOT recommend the program because you claim its "completely entirely done online, from the luxury of someones home - and that other USA medical schools allow transfer credits from dentists, foreign medical students etc where as no legitmate United States medical school would do so " ? Do you claim this now? You have adequate information on the program - are you willing to stand by your claims?

As far as Dr.Thomas court case - its already been shown the reason he had court problems is not that he attended UHSA - but because he used the MD letters without doing the additional training required for licensure - the same thing would have been true if he had gone to Harvard or Yale medical schools. You have to get licensed after complete residency in his state to use the MD credentials. It had nothing to do with UHSA - as the newspaper author tried to claim.

Also what court cases are there of graduates not getting licensed? Specifically show me court docket cases - I know I can do that with a quick search through public records...like Maricopa court systems for restraining orders etc issued against dads in arrears for not paying court ordered child support. I mean - I know of UHSA graduates licensed in Indiana, Pennsylvania and many many other states. What court cases - you said it, so get specific and provide a public record link please.

Again - do you NOT recommend UHSA because it is a degree anyone can earn from the luxury of their home, completely online, simply by writing a check - as you have previously written? Do you stand by these statements or so you now say they are false? Its one way or the other AZskeptic.... do you stand by these claims or do you admit they are false?

==============================================
AZskeptic writes : "I believe that some online education is/will be accepted but IUHS and UHSA programs are nearly completely online per their websites. " Link : http://www.valuemd.com/ftopic21229.html&highlight=internet+computer+uhsa& sid=c5f048feb596c661c72141c7a5c48f3c


AZskeptic writes : "he had 'attended' the University of Health Sciences-Antigua www.uhsa.com which offers advanced standing to chiropractors,
podiatrists, dentists, nurses, pharmacists, veterinarians, and allows
them to attend 'virtually' via the internet. One has to realize that
this is not like any US medical school because legitimate schools only
allow people to transfer in credit from other approved medical
schools."

Link :
http://www.valuemd.com/ftopic22814.html&highlight=internet+computer+uhsa& sid=c5f048feb596c661c72141c7a5c48f3c

AZskeptic writes : "from the luxury of their homes or offices, these people are called MD's"
Link: http://www.valuemd.com/medschool/usmleforum.php?url=http://www.internetmedicalschool.homestead.com

I have NOT been served papers. What is the source of your information? Absolutely untrue.

By the way, tell us about your greenbook rotations or are you using the system of "Mentors" that you find yourself as on your website?

[crunch]

[You do have a minimum of 7 days required attendance at the school which doesn't make it completely distance learning I suppose.
.

You are mixing apples and oranges. You have stated the progam is 100% online. Completely online.

The school does require this 7 day at the school at the end of the program. This is not part of the basic sciences. And as you fully well know, and are avoiding, we do 4,400 clinical hours in United States hospitals. I have not done any official greenbooks yet. All of mine have been with mentors - but all of whom teach in residency programs, or are adjunct professors with one or more other medical schools. I am currently doing surgery with an instructor who is a clinical instructor for 2 medical schools and a DO school. But I finally sold my chiropractic practices, and next month am doing an official greenbook in internal medicine.

I think legally this post of yours can be taken as stating you affirm your position that you are willing to tell the world that UHSA graduates earn their degree "entirely completely online" via the internet from the luxury of their homes. This is a lie on your part and you know - a lie that has damages attached. Every student that has been swayed from attending UHSA is at least a $48,000 loss from the school. And each student that might be denied licensure from your lies has lost an equal amount. I have at least a half a dozen unanswered emails to people from this bulletin board here with concerns raised about UHSA from your posts - each one that does not sign up with UHSA is a documented damage and loss to the school as a result of you. Losses which can hold real financial consequences.

You are implying that you have not received the paperwork from UHSA and its attorneys about its programs recently. ???

This would be contrary to what I understand - but then again I am not at the very front of everything...I am but a lowly student.

But I think you will find UHSA and its students are done messing around with you and debating you by presenting truth in response to your lies here. I myself have presented the truth over and over - and yet you imply and twist the same things. Many students are willing to persue you for damages to their ability to be licensed, and if the school also persues you for damages for losses to its income you will be fighting legal battles on several fronts. Even just 60 students willing to toss in a grand each represents some serious legal power - and that would just represent lawsuits for the students damages, not the schools losses. This is the real world. Besides the schools attorneys and investigators, the students have invested alot of money and alot of time in persuing their goals. many of them make alot of money from chiropractic and oral surgery. A grand is not much more to come up with to grab several people by their legal nuts and drag them painfully into court.

I am more than happy at this time to read your post and confirm that you acknowledge responsiblity for stating that UHSA graduates earn their degree "from the luxury of their homes, entirely and completely online" . A copy of your response is of course being made in case you attempt to change it. As I finish my first official "greenbook" next month - with the hospital documentation of my hours - and many students have done ALL their rotations as greenbook - it will be no problem proving you a liar.

[crunch]

More Barrett information. This is what judges and courtrooms have to say about Steven Barrett:
http://www.quackpotwatch.org/opinionpieces/floggedinflorida.htm

http://www.biorenew.com/news_articles/ceaseanddesist.htm

http://www.iahf.com/antiquackbusters/20010805a.html

[crunch]

Read the quote from the Judge on his education.

http://www.dentalwatch.org/reg/thomas.html

.

From the article it says "...Kansas's law bars professional use of the M.D. degree by individuals who lack a medical license. ....he did not obtain postgraduate training or complete an examination required to obtain a medical license"

Again this is the whole point. Although the author tries to create the impression that it had to do with him attending UHSA, it does not. It was a good sensational twist, in an effort to make good reading - but the fact is the Kansas board bars someone from using MD who lacks a license (not all states do this) and the reason he was not licensed was he did not get post-graduate training (residency) and he did not take the examination (presumably USMLE) to get licensed. The exact same rule would apply to someone who graduated from harvard medical school but did not do a residency or take the USMLE. However since he decided not to become a practicing MD but continue with his dental practice - he did not do residency or take the USMLE

[azskeptic]

More Barrett information. This is what judges and courtrooms have to say about Steven Barrett:
http://www.quackpotwatch.org/opinionpieces/floggedinflorida.htm

http://www.biorenew.com/news_articles/ceaseanddesist.htm

http://www.iahf.com/antiquackbusters/20010805a.html

There you go....if you believe those articles there is nothing to discuss with you because you will also believe that online education isn't scorned by US medical schools. You will also believe that finding your own 'mentors' and clincials is normal behavior of a med student.

No use talking to you because you have a belief system that won't allow outside influences to bother your reality.

[stephew]

The personal attacks stop here and now. If you can't make your point without attacking the user, then don't post. Everyone who's been engaging in this knows the terms of use. PM each other all you like but keep the personal stuff off the public forum.

[lswiltshire]

Crunch you point out that at UHSA-
The school does require this 7 day at the school at the end of the program. This is not part of the basic sciences.


Is this the norm?

Which of the other Caribbean Medical schools, or Medical schools elsewhere require only 7 days on campus?

You are quite correct- this seven days is not for Basic Sciences. It is for graduation, at which time most UHSA students are seeing thier school for the first time.

What a lovely school, eh?

[Picard]

What other states, besides California, currently disallow UHSA graduates?

If you have to ask this, you are in for a very, very, very rude awakening. Let see, TX, VT, NJ, IN, TN, CO, NM, MA... etc. And these are just the beginning, states that have strict LCME standards and won't even license newer carib grads from new carib schools, many of them with actual statutory prohibition of distant learning. The question is
which state will license on-line UHSA graduates -- the number is next to zero if not zero itself. Name a few states that have actually licensed (not just residency, which means absolutely nothing in terms actual permenent licensure) if you can.

Oh, "non-green book" with "mentors" = no rotation. You might as well sit at home and watch TV. If you didn't know this, again you are very naive and uninformed about licensure process. None of those will count, regardless of who you rotated with. Saying your mentor is XYZ is moot. The fact that it's not green book means it didn't happen... so how many of these "non-rotations" are you counting in your "4,000" hours? You will find yourself without a license down the line... perhaps you shouldn't have sold your chiropractic practice so soon....

As for dragging up medical school taking medical school transfers -- what's your point here? Of course medical school can take medical school transfers... the point is, they don't take chiropractor, dentist transfers, which IUHS does. As for OMFS -- it's been discussed before. Real OMFS-MD programs in the US is much lengthier than the fake UHSA OMFS transfer program, and it's much more structured. In a pure OMFS residency, the focus is entirely OMFS with very little cross training in general medicine (I know because I've seen it). And the reality is NO US medical school will take "OMFS-trained" dentist and make them MD"s in 18 months -- Name ONE US school that does it. By the way, AMA does NOT approve residencies. RRC/ACGME does. If you didn't know that, again you are very naive and uninformed.

P
[/quote]

[Picard]

BTW, since crunch is mentioning about himself doing non-green book stuff with "mentors" -- basically shadowing physicians as a medical student.....

In many states, INCLUDING TEXAS and california, it is ILLEGAL for foreign medical students to "shadow" physicians as a medical student without going through a formal teaching program in a greenbook hospital. In TX, foreign medical students must register as a visiting student with one of the TX medical schools and rotate through the framework of that school. So, if someone is shadowing a physician mentor as a medical student in an non-greenbook/non TX approved fashion, regardless of how many teaching appointments that physician holds, one is breaking TX law. The minute you examine/touch a patient in this format, it's technically assault and battery. If one steps into a hospital following a mentor physician without being in a teaching program in TX and touches patients/read patients charts/discuss patient conditions... then one just violated a truck load of federal laws on patient privacy, the least of which is HIPAA.

One may get away with it and not be found out by the TX authorities... but if the TX authorities somehow finds out....

I'm sure there are other states with similar laws regarding "physician mentors" and foreign medical students...

P

[meMD2B]

This school is at least better than a non existant school such St Luke School Of Medicine (Liberia) :D . I don't know why they continue to run a website and saying that they are accredited in Liberia and Listed in IMED list, which is not true?

[lswiltshire]

Some friends of mine visited the Sea Aquarium in Curacao this week and saw a sign DOLPHIN ACADEMY and figured that that is where ****** Dolphin was holding St Lukes Med school--- but there were no med students there either LOL

[meMD2B]

St Luke is just a ghost. There is no school. Dolphin is hiding in Afirca. He can't even come to US because there a justice procedures against him lately. Becarfull, these people are scamers. They can tell you anything until they get your money. :?

[SantoB72]

well everyone is bashing UHSA. How do you explain the graduates who are licened than? Or the ones in residency? I know for fact that there are graduates licensed in FL, NY, Chicago, PA. If one was to perform a web search for university of health science antiua residents or graduates they will find web pages with gradates in residency. Here is one web page,
http://www.uhsa.ag/pstudent/nb/

http://www.concordhospital.org/medical/residents.php

http://www.network54.com/Forum/156286/message/1101795548/UHSA+FACTS

http://www.schi.org/main/newdocs.pdf

[SantoB72]

http://www.collegenaturalmedicine.com/Faculty_&_Staff/

[azskeptic]

well everyone is bashing UHSA. How do you explain the graduates who are licened than? Or the ones in residency? I know for fact that there are graduates licensed in FL, NY, Chicago, PA. If one was to perform a web search for university of health science antiua residents or graduates they will find web pages with gradates in residency. Here is one web page,
http://www.uhsa.ag/pstudent/nb/

http://www.concordhospital.org/medical/residents.php

http://www.network54.com/Forum/156286/message/1101795548/UHSA+FACTS

http://www.schi.org/main/newdocs.pdf ask them if they presented documents showing they were on the campus via their passports or not or were pre-1995 grads (believe it or not you'll find a bunch that never got into residencies over 10 years).

[azskeptic]

http://www.collegenaturalmedicine.com/Faculty_&_Staff/ he is a licensed dentist,not MD

[SantoB72]

How do you all explain the graduates who are licensed in various states and in practice or are in residency? if school is so bad how did this happen?

[azskeptic]

How do you all explain the graduates who are licensed in various states and in practice or are in residency? if school is so bad how did this happen?a school that is that old should have hundreds of licensed grads and you can find only a handfull...what does that tell you?

[Aviv Imanuel]

You folks are engaging in a sterile argument. Santo, there is no chance in hell you will change Azkeptic mindset, Az, same goes to you to Santo. Guys, drop it and leave it alone. 23 years of bashing has not closed the school, I dont think anything Az is doing will change anything about it either. Pardon me Az, in know you are very weary about offshore medical education and you truly believe to be in a crusade, and that is your fix.

Sometimes I beleive the name of this site should change from valuemd to bashingmd. There is more school bashing and trash throwing than valuable and insightful information here. It's like graffitti.

[OLDPRO]

You folks are engaging in a sterile argument. Santo, there is no chance in hell you will change Azkeptic mindset, Az, same goes to you to Santo. Guys, drop it and leave it alone. 23 years of bashing has not closed the school, I dont think anything Az is doing will change anything about it either. Pardon me Az, in know you are very weary about offshore medical education and you truly believe to be in a crusade, and that is your fix.

Sometimes I beleive the name of this site should change from valuemd to bashingmd. There is more school bashing and trash throwing than valuable and insightful information here. It's like graffitti.

I find the web site http://www.uhsa.ag/index2.htm Very organized but could not find qualifications for the programs.

It appears they have "ADVANCED" standing for other health care professions. Do not go to an advanced standing program you will never get e job in the USA, advanced standing is when you are given credit for medical school courses. You need to take these courses, you really do!

It's one thing to not have a full ** degree but 90+ credit (3years) Undergrad and get admission into med school. To "Skip" medical school class time is not going to be over looked.

Good Luck. ;)

[SantoB72]

Ok what about this I work with an indian doctor who stated she is going to send her daughter to school in india b/c she does not need a bachlors degree to do so. How, is this better than UHSA's 3 year program?

[azskeptic]

Ok what about this I work with an indian doctor who stated she is going to send her daughter to school in india b/c she does not need a bachlors degree to do so. How, is this better than UHSA's 3 year program? she is going to go to medical school, which is a longer program, than here and will be directly supervised by professors the whole time. Some of our Indian docs here can describe the system; they don't allow 99% there..pretty competitive to get in. all universities in India have to have a hospital attached as part of their program.

[Aviv Imanuel]

Good point Az.

You go to medical school out of high school, but it takes 6 or 7 (depending)years, including one year of internship and one year of social services. Spain....same as well as many other countries. You can't throw a high school grad into the UHSA program. It is the perfect recipe for failure.




she is going to go to medical school, which is a longer program, than here and will be directly supervised by professors the whole time. Some of our Indian docs here can describe the system; they don't allow 99% there..pretty competitive to get in. all universities in India have to have a hospital attached as part of their program.

[SantoB72]

Good point Az.

You go to medical school out of high school, but it takes 6 or 7 (depending)years, including one year of internship and one year of social services. Spain....same as well as many other countries. You can't throw a high school grad into the UHSA program. It is the perfect recipe for failure.
Genossa-I agree, I dont even think a college grad should go go uhsa. Like I have said. I would only recommed it for mature medical professionals.

[texmex]

OK I'm going to jump into this discussion about this alleged "school". I have first hand knowledge about UHSA as I have graduated from their program. It took me 3 years even w/advanced standing. There is a problem w/the UHSA method. They don't get you any of the rotations as that is left up to the student. It's a real problem unless you are connected w/the medical folks.

I have been at the school for 2 weeks to establish what they call the residency requirement. That school is a joke when you see it. That's probably why they don't want CA to make an onsite inspection. The staff is something else maybe 5-7 people. Heaven help you if you need somethiing from the school like a document. Ms. Samuels will cop an attitude on you in a heart beat & stonewall you on getting your document. It takes them forever & the more you apply pressure to them the slower they get. I think the school is located on an old U.S. tracking station used during the Mercury, Apollo space missions way way back in the 1960's & 1970's. It's still pretty much the same as when the U.S. abandoned it. They have left the raised floor computer rooms in tact. The library what a joke. When I was there the magazines - no books - were piled on the floor in front of the bookcases. The whole "campus' is a disaster. Most of their students are comprised of the herds of goats on the grounds. That's all you hear is the goats bellering.

This school is nothing more than a money mill. So if you attend be advised of what you are getting into. They want 1 thing - your money. This school is soooooo bad the local hospital won't let them do anything at its location they are not welcome or at least that was true when I went.

I thiink for a PA, NP or DO this school would be ok, but be advised that you will be limited in the states that you can get a license. I think there are approx. 13 states where UHSA gradutes are banned from licensure.

Chiropractors should not even consider this as an avenue because our education does not prepare us for the medical world. We have missed out on too many clinicals.

I did it & regret it. I doubt that I will ever use the degree.

[Aviv Imanuel]

It is similar to other horror stories I've heard before about the school.

Good luck!


OK I'm going to jump into this discussion about this alleged "school". I have first hand knowledge about UHSA as I have graduated from their program. It took me 3 years even w/advanced standing. There is a problem w/the UHSA method. They don't get you any of the rotations as that is left up to the student. It's a real problem unless you are connected w/the medical folks.

I have been at the school for 2 weeks to establish what they call the residency requirement. That school is a joke when you see it. That's probably why they don't want CA to make an onsite inspection. The staff is something else maybe 5-7 people. Heaven help you if you need somethiing from the school like a document. Ms. Samuels will cop an attitude on you in a heart beat & stonewall you on getting your document. It takes them forever & the more you apply pressure to them the slower they get. I think the school is located on an old U.S. tracking station used during the Mercury, Apollo space missions way way back in the 1960's & 1970's. It's still pretty much the same as when the U.S. abandoned it. They have left the raised floor computer rooms in tact. The library what a joke. When I was there the magazines - no books - were piled on the floor in front of the bookcases. The whole "campus' is a disaster. Most of their students are comprised of the herds of goats on the grounds. That's all you hear is the goats bellering.

This school is nothing more than a money mill. So if you attend be advised of what you are getting into. They want 1 thing - your money. This school is soooooo bad the local hospital won't let them do anything at its location they are not welcome or at least that was true when I went.

I thiink for a PA, NP or DO this school would be ok, but be advised that you will be limited in the states that you can get a license. I think there are approx. 13 states where UHSA gradutes are banned from licensure.

Chiropractors should not even consider this as an avenue because our education does not prepare us for the medical world. We have missed out on too many clinicals.

I did it & regret it. I doubt that I will ever use the degree.

[texmex]

Genossa

Thanks for your wishes. I'll see what happens & how far I can gow/their degree.

I tried to warn santob72, but he thinks because he is a PA that it will be ok. I hope so for him.

It's not really a horror story , but reality about their school & just how UNPROFESSIONAL they act.

Thanks and all of you have a good day. I've probably said too much.

[azskeptic]

Genossa

Thanks for your wishes. I'll see what happens & how far I can gow/their degree.

I tried to warn santob72, but he thinks because he is a PA that it will be ok. I hope so for him.

It's not really a horror story , but reality about their school & just how UNPROFESSIONAL they act.

Thanks and all of you have a good day. I've probably said too much. It would appear to me that since UHSA doesn't require passage of USMLEs there are numerous grads with MD degrees that haven't passed ANY of the USMLEs and thus they have a degree that isn't worthwhile. What do you guess is the passage rate of USMLE 1?

[CorporateRaider]

This is an ATYPICAL confession. Could you please offer more details and evidence if possible.

Thank you.

OK I'm going to jump into this discussion about this alleged "school". I have first hand knowledge about UHSA as I have graduated from their program. It took me 3 years even w/advanced standing. There is a problem w/the UHSA method. They don't get you any of the rotations as that is left up to the student. It's a real problem unless you are connected w/the medical folks.

I have been at the school for 2 weeks to establish what they call the residency requirement. That school is a joke when you see it. That's probably why they don't want CA to make an onsite inspection. The staff is something else maybe 5-7 people. Heaven help you if you need somethiing from the school like a document. Ms. Samuels will cop an attitude on you in a heart beat & stonewall you on getting your document. It takes them forever & the more you apply pressure to them the slower they get. I think the school is located on an old U.S. tracking station used during the Mercury, Apollo space missions way way back in the 1960's & 1970's. It's still pretty much the same as when the U.S. abandoned it. They have left the raised floor computer rooms in tact. The library what a joke. When I was there the magazines - no books - were piled on the floor in front of the bookcases. The whole "campus' is a disaster. Most of their students are comprised of the herds of goats on the grounds. That's all you hear is the goats bellering.

This school is nothing more than a money mill. So if you attend be advised of what you are getting into. They want 1 thing - your money. This school is soooooo bad the local hospital won't let them do anything at its location they are not welcome or at least that was true when I went.

I thiink for a PA, NP or DO this school would be ok, but be advised that you will be limited in the states that you can get a license. I think there are approx. 13 states where UHSA gradutes are banned from licensure.

Chiropractors should not even consider this as an avenue because our education does not prepare us for the medical world. We have missed out on too many clinicals.

I did it & regret it. I doubt that I will ever use the degree.

[CorporateRaider]

TEXMEX:

So your main point of contention with UHSA is; "they are un-professional?"

What I fail to understand is when did you conclude they were behaving "unpro" ? In your first year? Second year? Third year? Every year? Please, correct my mistakes:


The Tuition @ UHSA is at least $19,000 (US) per academic year.
The tuition is paid "upfront" each year. Why; after writing that first check and after experimenting first hand how "unpro" UHSA is, would you continue to subject yourself to such "sub-standard" education?

You are a P.A. right? You should be better prepared to discern what is quality education and what is not, right?

Unless you are addicted to "sub-standard" education, I cannot figure out why you (or anyone else) would continue to study in their program.




Genossa

Thanks for your wishes. I'll see what happens & how far I can gow/their degree.

I tried to warn santob72, but he thinks because he is a PA that it will be ok. I hope so for him.

It's not really a horror story , but reality about their school & just how UNPROFESSIONAL they act.

Thanks and all of you have a good day. I've probably said too much.

[texmex]

I think there is nothing more to add to quantify my comments regarding UHSA. It's a very low ranked school on a third world island. That is all that needs to be said. Read the old postings about the school & you will see the whole thing is questionable.

Of the grads, I don't think there have been a lot to take step 1. I myself know of 1 who has failed step 1 - me. There are bot a lot of chiros who have graduated, taken step 1 & passed. This I know!!!!!

Another thing I know for sure. At 1 time a bunch of oral surgeons were taking this program only to have the MD after their name. It seems there was some kind of turf thing going on the hospitals where the oral surgeons did their thing & the derms were trying to get them removed since they did not have md after their name.

Anyway we can debate this thing all day. Some will say UHSA is a piece of crap & others will say it is ok. That is your/our privilege. It just all boils down to what do you want or expect from this school? After all it's your money!!!!!!

[CorporateRaider]

TexMex:

Thank you for not addressing my questions, instead giving (me,they, them, us, we) an evasive response that says much of nothing and has a tad of vitrolic discrimination mixed in for flavor.

Best wishes.

CR

I think there is nothing more to add to quantify my comments regarding UHSA. It's a very low ranked school on a third world island. That is all that needs to be said. Read the old postings about the school & you will see the whole thing is questionable.

Of the grads, I don't think there have been a lot to take step 1. I myself know of 1 who has failed step 1 - me. There are bot a lot of chiros who have graduated, taken step 1 & passed. This I know!!!!!

Another thing I know for sure. At 1 time a bunch of oral surgeons were taking this program only to have the MD after their name. It seems there was some kind of turf thing going on the hospitals where the oral surgeons did their thing & the derms were trying to get them removed since they did not have md after their name.

Anyway we can debate this thing all day. Some will say UHSA is a piece of crap & others will say it is ok. That is your/our privilege. It just all boils down to what do you want or expect from this school? After all it's your money!!!!!!

[azskeptic]

I think there is nothing more to add to quantify my comments regarding UHSA. It's a very low ranked school on a third world island. That is all that needs to be said. Read the old postings about the school & you will see the whole thing is questionable.

Of the grads, I don't think there have been a lot to take step 1. I myself know of 1 who has failed step 1 - me. There are bot a lot of chiros who have graduated, taken step 1 & passed. This I know!!!!!

Another thing I know for sure. At 1 time a bunch of oral surgeons were taking this program only to have the MD after their name. It seems there was some kind of turf thing going on the hospitals where the oral surgeons did their thing & the derms were trying to get them removed since they did not have md after their name.

Anyway we can debate this thing all day. Some will say UHSA is a piece of crap & others will say it is ok. That is your/our privilege. It just all boils down to what do you want or expect from this school? After all it's your money!!!!!! What you say is logical..if you 'google' you find FEW residents/grads and quite a few oral surgeons who have done the degree but will never license it. Why won't they license it? First off UHSA allows people to do the degree without finishing USMLEs. Why would an oral surgeon leave a $300-400,000/practice to do a $40,000 year residency? But more importantly the failure rate on USMLEs must be pretty high because doing correspondence study doesn't prepare most people.

[CorporateRaider]

Dean,

I am surprised you find TEXMEX's comments "logical" or did the excitement of reading his diatribe ridden letter blind you to his/her comment:

"........on a third world island".........

Now what does the economical status of the island have to do with anything?

Look out AUA................TexMex has spoken.


What you say is logical..if you 'google' you find FEW residents/grads and quite a few oral surgeons who have done the degree but will never license it. Why won't they license it? First off UHSA allows people to do the degree without finishing USMLEs. Why would an oral surgeon leave a $300-400,000/practice to do a $40,000 year residency? But more importantly the failure rate on USMLEs must be pretty high because doing correspondence study doesn't prepare most people.

[azskeptic]

Dean,

I am surprised you find TEXMEX's comments "logical" or did the excitement of reading his diatribe ridden letter blind you to his/her comment:

"........on a third world island".........

Now what does the economical status of the island have to do with anything?

Look out AUA................TexMex has spoken.

Well, you have to admit that Antigua isn't Monte Carlo,right?

[CorporateRaider]

True:

So by that logic then all of those islands are third world (so the programs must all be sub-standard), but some of the islands have reputable schools , even thou they are 3rd world.........so the point is moot. The writer tried to justify UHSA in particular of being "sub-standard" because among other things it's on a 3rd world island and what could the average under-informed reader come to expect from the 3rd world and worse off on a 3rd world island......right..............when in reality even if it were located in Germany, but by using the methodology of UHSA it would still be sub-standard no matter where it is physically located........................get my point, hoss?

:D



Well, you have to admit that Antigua isn't Monte Carlo,right?

[azskeptic]

True:

So by that logic then all of those islands are third world, but some of the islands have reputable schools , even thou they are 3rd world.........so the point is moot. The writer tried to justify UHSA in particular of being "sub-standard" because among other things it's on a 3rd world island and what could the average under-informed reader come to expect from the 3rd world and worse off on a 3rd world island......right..............when in reality even if it were located in Germany, but by using the methodology of UHSA it would still be sub-standard no matter where it is physically located........................get my point, hoss?

:D Location isn't really part of it but if it was in Germany it would have laws that require certain standards of professors,attendance,curriculum,etc. that a 3rd world country doesn't have the infrastructure of finances for. Come to think of it, it wouldn't be allowed in Germany would it.

[CorporateRaider]

I think most would agree that there are 3rd world islands and countries with very reputable medical schools..................so being 3rd world does not excuse the "not having finances" for it argument.


Let's see:

1. Mexico has decent schools (3rd world).
2. AUC, ROSS , SABA and St George seem reputable.
3. Argentina has some wonderful medical schools (oops 3rd world).

So 3rd world is not synonymous of "low budget".


Location isn't really part of it but if it was in Germany it would have laws that require certain standards of professors,attendance,curriculum,etc. that a 3rd world country doesn't have the infrastructure of finances for. Come to think of it, it wouldn't be allowed in Germany would it.

[azskeptic]

I think most would agree that there are 3rd world islands and countries with very reputable medical schools..................so being 3rd world does not excuse the "not having finances" for it argument.


Let's see:

1. Mexico has decent schools (3rd world).
2. AUC, ROSS , SABA and St George seem reputable.
3. Argentina has some wonderful medical schools (oops 3rd world).

So 3rd world is not synonymous of "low budget". so it really depends more on the schools behavior?

[CorporateRaider]

This is what i was asking TEXMEX.

When did he/she discover the alleged "unpro" behavior of UHSA...........1st year, 2nd year, 3rd year??????????????????????????????????????


TEXMEX is a professional holding a P.A. degree...........how could he or she pay $19,000 + per year knowing that UHSA was allegedly not operating a legitimate program? This is shocking.




so it really depends more on the schools behavior?

[texmex]

This whole thing of question & answer isn't going anywhere productive. I'm out of this thing. I've said all that I need to say & there is no need to reinterate what I've already written.

[SantoB72]

So what is the real complaint here. I think Tex is pissed b/c he/she failed USMLE. Did she study? Would her opinion on the school be different if she had passed? There are a lot of US grads who fail USMLE each year. A student who is thinking about taking test MUST study, study a lot and if they dont they will fail. As when I was studying for my PA boards there were some people in my class who thought they were so smart and did not study much thinking they learned enough while in class, some of them failed. I am a student at UHSA and yes it has infrastructure problems but it does have well qualified doctors teaching classes. Student have to keep in mind there are there for one thing to learn and go home.
I spoke with NY licensing today and the gentelman told me that it is possible to be licensed from UHSA, and he knows of at least one person who has already been licensed.

[texmex]

So what is the real complaint here. I think Tex is pissed b/c he/she failed USMLE. Did she study? Would her opinion on the school be different if she had passed? There are a lot of US grads who fail USMLE each year. A student who is thinking about taking test MUST study, study a lot and if they dont they will fail. As when I was studying for my PA boards there were some people in my class who thought they were so smart and did not study much thinking they learned enough while in class, some of them failed. I am a student at UHSA and yes it has infrastructure problems but it does have well qualified doctors teaching classes. Student have to keep in mind there are there for one thing to learn and go home.
I spoke with NY licensing today and the gentelman told me that it is possible to be licensed from UHSA, and he knows of at least one person who has already been licensed.

My fine PA comrade, you have the whole reason for any of my repiles wrong. I am not pissed about failing step 1, but rather disappointed. I resent your assumptions. Yes, I did study, but had a lot of deficiencies in my core education to overcome. I am licensed as a chiropractor. Our eductaion is not intense enough to prepare us for this test. Oh by the way, you pompous **** I am a male. So quit calling me a she. In reading what you have posted I feel that you are a self-assumnig arrogant person who is very full on themself..

When I was registered w/UHSA the whole thing was a joke. Perhaps things have changed since I was enrolled with that "school". I still feel the school is not worth attending and there are much better options out there in the Carribean.

I willl not be posting any more replies to this dumb thread and the replies by SantoB72. It isn't worth my time & effort.

[SantoB72]

Ohhh, I am sorry to have upset you great one. If you think you cannot keep up with the questions posted in this room why bother. I see you didnt quite answer another question from a previous thread. Also, In first sentance I mentioned "he/she" but god forbid I make a mistake in the very next sentance. Didnt you see that, or do you just read and not pay attention to what your reading?

[ULTRON]

I feel very uncomfortable reading that chiros and dentists are getting advanced standing at UHSA. For example, anatomy learnt as a Chiro or a dentist is completely different from anatomy learnt as a medical student. How do they study the various clinical situations printed in AP books for medical student?

[ULTRON]

Have a look at this UHSA grad:

http://www.uchospitals.edu/physicians/physician.html?id=ADEY


I think there is nothing more to add to quantify my comments regarding UHSA. It's a very low ranked school on a third world island. That is all that needs to be said. Read the old postings about the school & you will see the whole thing is questionable.

Of the grads, I don't think there have been a lot to take step 1. I myself know of 1 who has failed step 1 - me. There are bot a lot of chiros who have graduated, taken step 1 & passed. This I know!!!!!

Another thing I know for sure. At 1 time a bunch of oral surgeons were taking this program only to have the MD after their name. It seems there was some kind of turf thing going on the hospitals where the oral surgeons did their thing & the derms were trying to get them removed since they did not have md after their name.

Anyway we can debate this thing all day. Some will say UHSA is a piece of crap & others will say it is ok. That is your/our privilege. It just all boils down to what do you want or expect from this school? After all it's your money!!!!!!

[azskeptic]

Have a look at this UHSA grad:

http://www.uchospitals.edu/physicians/physician.html?id=ADEY This woman was before the virtual medical school...

[ULTRON]

Wrong. This woman was before chiros and dentists started getting advanced standing. The online part isn't as bad as giving advanced credit to dentists and chiros, and making them do med school in 18 months.


This woman was before the virtual medical school...

[azskeptic]

Wrong. This woman was before chiros and dentists started getting advanced standing. The online part isn't as bad as giving advanced credit to dentists and chiros, and making them do med school in 18 months.

https://www.idfpr.com/dpr/licenselookup/default.asp

[ULTRON]

Wow, thats a pretty cool link. I did find her:

Licensee's NameDBA /
AKALicense
NumberLicense
StatusCity, StateOriginal
Issue
DateCurrent
ExprtnEver
Discplned?<H5>CAROLINE O OLALEYE 36091153ACTIVECHICAGO, IL07/03/199507/31/2008N

</H5>

[azskeptic]

Wow, thats a pretty cool link. I did find her:

Licensee's NameDBA /
AKALicense
NumberLicense
StatusCity, StateOriginal
Issue
DateCurrent
ExprtnEver
Discplned?<H5>xxxxxxxxx 36091153ACTIVECHICAGO, IL07/03/199507/31/2008N

</H5> my point was she graduated in 1995 and went to the school before the internet program or advanced placement......

[ULTRON]

What about these people:

http://www.alegent.com/1297.cfm



http://www.halifaxfprp.org/evers.html




http://www.concordhospital.org/medical/residents.php
(Scroll down and look for Dr. Gary Curcio)



ULTRON

[azskeptic]

What about these people:

http://www.alegent.com/1297.cfm



http://www.halifaxfprp.org/evers.html




http://www.concordhospital.org/medical/residents.php
(Scroll down and look for Dr. Gary Curcio)



ULTRON the nebraska doc is 1995....who knows on the other 2

[SantoB72]

the school does have a three year program without giving advanced standing or online courses (except for one or two like genetics). There have been people who graduated and have been licensed from this program.
I do not believe in advanced standing. I am interested in licensing in NYS and they will not accept license if one was granted advanced standing.

[romanl]

Its interesting to see that the great majority of the posted information come from students that have been kicked out of school.You can see that these people are so frustrated and they want to have some kind of attention. The truth is that the University of Health Sciences Antigua School of Medicine has been actively graduating medical doctors that are practicing in different parts of the US and the World. The school has actually an endowment fund that helps hundreds of talented men and women to make their dream to become a medical doctor true.

Make your choice, apply to UHSA.

[UHSADOC]

ROMANL, I think the point of the forum is to help students make an informed decision :)

Sure, UHSA is a an ok medical school, but, lets leave any non-objective opinions outside this forum :)

As a graduate of UHSA, I know the program is legitimate, but, there are other medical schools out there, that might be better suited to other students !

Cheers :)

[romanl]

I don't think I have said anything wrong. As a school official of the school I cant see with good eyes people that bash a school. I have read the rules of this site and I am surprised why some people are allowed to post here.

[lswiltshire]

So you are a school official eh?

Now we know!

I once set out to defend UHSA as well, when I was a school official there too.

So I do know a little bit about which I speak. OK?

[UHSADOC]

Whatever, I have other things to do, I just like to see objective posts, many posts on ValueMD are biased.

As a graduate of UHSA, I know the pros and cons of the program.
If you are willing to work hard, then UHSA is ok for the most part.

From what I've heard the new profs are better, and the school expanded with regards to new programs, and caliber of students. No more Para Professional programs with advance standing (was main source of attacks in the late 90s)

I know UHSA School of Medicine is now:
1. 4 Years / 40 Months MD Program
2. Onsite Physical Attendance for basic sciences
3. ACGME Hospital Rotations in 3rd and 4th years
4. USMLE Review Courses offered for step 1 and 2ck
5. New and improved Clinical Skills labs

Students should visit the medical school and make an informed decision.
www.UHSA.ag (http://www.UHSA.ag)

Cheers and good luck to everyone :)

[romanl]

Is that something wrong sir to be a school official? I am a proud one in which I earn every cent and work very hard to promote my school. I don't offend and more than that I don't need to throw dirt at others. I am here to serve.

[lswiltshire]

If what you say is true, then UHSA owes a lot to myself and Azskeptic for our stirring and stirling posts in 2003-2005 !

[romanl]

You are not responsible sir in your posts. Please read the rules of this site and behave as a professional not as a street gang member.

[lswiltshire]

Who made you a judge and ruler over me?

Quid dixi scripsique, dixi scripsique.

I know what I saw and experienced .

And I make no apologies for what I have said, because I ALWAYS SPEAK THE TRUTH ON VALUEMD.

You can carry on now, for you are paid to do so. Good luck!

[romanl]

Its a pity that people that are adults behave like you sir. The fact that you where a former employee of the school does not entitle you to throw dirt towards the school. That is not being objective and professional on the contrary it makes anybody wonder if you where fired from the school and that is the reason why you act such an unprofessional way.

Good afternoon sir.

[UHSADOC]

Wow, enough you guys !?!?!

Would love to see more collaborative efforts in positive direction,
like how to improve UHSA and make it a better school, than it is already :)
such as research programs, library support etc..