Maine Basic Science and State License Problems

[Jenny75]

I am between going to SMU, AUC or Saba. I see an advantage in being able to do my last two semesters in Maine but will this be a licensing problem? I am from New Jersey which will not license IMG's who do not complete at least the ** part of education in the country where the medical school is chartered. Any insight or info?

[SMU_Information]

None of your Basic Science credits are awarded in Maine. They are all issued in Cayman, at the direction of the Maine Attorney General, Maine DOE, and US DOE.

[Picard]

I think she is referring to "physical attendence" in country of charter... Schools like St. Chris and Kizegi that charter in one country but hold classes in another have brought this issue up to the surface. Hope it works out for SMU.

P

[SMU_Information]

Ahh, in that case, the difference is that you are not required to leave Cayman. It is an optional program in which you are studying abroad.

[rowdymon]

Ahh, in that case, the difference is that you are not required to leave Cayman. It is an optional program in which you are studying abroad.

I'm not sure what to make of your statement. Does it mean that a student who 'chooses' to do semesters 4 and 5 in maine might possibly run into licensing problems later on in some particular states? Or does it mean that SINCE the 4th and 5th semesters in Maine are "Not a mandatory requirement for ALL SMU students", there should not be any licensing problems?

Thanks

RD

[SMU_Information]

Since...

The laws are directed at schools where all students are in a country other than that of charter for their Basic Sciences.

[rowdymon]

Since...

The laws are directed at schools where all students are in a country other than that of charter for their Basic Sciences.

Ahh, I see. So the Maine program is likely considered as sort of an "exchange program" similar to those in many US schools which send their students overseas for exchange learning purposes. So there really isn't anything to it with regards to licensure. Is that correct?

[SMU_Information]

Exactly,

Students are attending a U.S. school concurrently, and it is not for the duration of Basic Sciences.

[wolfvgang22]

Will legislation ever be passed preventing such actions such as "concurrant" attendance at St. Joseph's in Maine, which basically violates the spirit of the law but not the technicality of the law, or will things loosen up instead?
Time will tell.

Perhaps it will depend on how well SMU students fare in the medical community.

[Donno70]

Will legislation ever be passed preventing such actions such as "concurrant" attendance at St. Joseph's in Maine, which basically violates the spirit of the law but not the technicality of the law, or will things loosen up instead?
Time will tell.

Perhaps it will depend on how well SMU students fare in the medical community.


Ssshh. :-shut Don't give them any ideas. THEY may be lurking, and I have to go to Maine in the next 18 months.

DM

[Junito]

Will legislation ever be passed preventing such actions such as "concurrant" attendance at St. Joseph's in Maine, which basically violates the spirit of the law but not the technicality of the law, or will things loosen up instead?
Time will tell.

Perhaps it will depend on how well SMU students fare in the medical community.

My understanding of the law (more like rule) came about with the advent of schools like St. Chris, who are chartered in one country, but have all their students (from basic sciences) in another country (outside the charter country). NJ was the state that is pushing the issue, some states are following suit. The NJ rule is that a school must require students to remain in their charter country for one whole year (365 days, not an academic year). So SMU meets the criteria. The hurricane was an act of God that prevented the school from operating in the Caymans, but all the transcripts state that courses are from Cayman. I don't see a problem here. SMU has not violated the spirit of any law. If there is a law in other states, please inform me.

Juni

[mo5225md]

I belive Juni is right. SCC is having a great deal of problems with New Jersey and that rule. That rule was also put in place so that you could not get internet online course credit as well, as i was told by someone. So since SMU has not violated either the charter rule or the online credit part....I think SMU is in the clear.

[Junito]

Will legislation ever be passed preventing such actions such as "concurrant" attendance at St. Joseph's in Maine, which basically violates the spirit of the law but not the technicality of the law, or will things loosen up instead?
Time will tell.

Perhaps it will depend on how well SMU students fare in the medical community.

There is no law that stipulates attending two schools at the same time. The rule is that you can not apply for stafford loans for two schools at the same time. Most schools allow you to take credits at another institution (permit courses). Even CUNY, has an agreement with local med schools in NYC where students at CUNY can attend courses at let say NYU or Mt. Sinai, and other medical schools. Some schools even encourage you to attend other campuses of other institutions for better training: SUNY has a relationship with Cornell, where you can earn a SUNY degree on the Cornell campus. So please specify which law you are talking about.

Juni

[wolfvgang22]

Well, what I mean is this:
Many SMU students admit that they take the masters in maine in order to get back in the USA more quickly, because the master's really isn't worth all that much compared to an MD; it's just icing on the cake.

My understanding is that students take not just the masters level courses, but also the last two semesters of basic sciences in Maine. Therefore, students are actually studying medicine in Maine, even though the are also doing the masters. The whole point of making sure schools are chartered in their country of origen is to make sure that they are actually attending school in that country, not somewhere else, even if it is the USA.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with this, I say "good for you!".
I just wonder how long state authorities will look the other way with students studying basic sciences in Maine (though technically, the degree says SMU). Hopefully, it will not get squashed by protectionist and xenophobic state board rules anytime soon.
As suggested, I'll shut up now, 'cause I don't wanna ruin it! :-shut

[mo5225]

As stated before, whether its correct or not is the question
NJ was the state that is pushing the issue, some states are following suit. The NJ rule is that a school must require students to remain in their charter country for one whole year (365 days, not an academic year). So SMU meets the criteria.

[Donno70]

Well, what I mean is this:
Many SMU students admit that they take the masters in maine in order to get back in the USA more quickly, because the master's really isn't worth all that much compared to an MD; it's just icing on the cake.

My understanding is that students take not just the masters level courses, but also the last two semesters of basic sciences in Maine. Therefore, students are actually studying medicine in Maine, even though the are also doing the masters. The whole point of making sure schools are chartered in their country of origen is to make sure that they are actually attending school in that country, not somewhere else, even if it is the USA.

Now, don't get me wrong, I don't have a problem with this, I say "good for you!".
I just wonder how long state authorities will look the other way with students studying basic sciences in Maine (though technically, the degree says SMU). Hopefully, it will not get squashed by protectionist and xenophobic state board rules anytime soon.
As suggested, I'll shut up now, 'cause I don't wanna ruin it! :-shut

WolfG,

Don't stress. I was just messin' around before.

I would however like to respond to a few of your items:

I enrolled in the masters program because I would like the extra credentials. Additionally, having an administrative background in business, I would like to follow suit in medicine. Furthermore, I think it would be a great benefit to anyone wanting to practice in the states, due to the fact: the program's focus is health care management in the US. If you read the literature, it's really quite interesting. Thirdly, as a ten-year resident of South Florida, I would like a brief change of scenery from the tropics after 10 years. It's not to be closer to home. GC is an hour from Miami.

Contrary to popular belief, I'm not trying to embellish by attending a masters program in ME. Either way you slice it, it is an Intl. medical program and I am perfectly content with that.

Regarding the legal aspects of dual location study, Juni explained that pretty well. As long as this requirement is met, I don't think there is cause for any concern.

DM 8)

[mdboy]

YOU have to be physical away from USA soil for approximately a year in order to not run into licensing problems. (at least 3 semesters). The remainder can be spent in Maine. Personally I would go to AUC or Saba. They are both better established and have California accredidation unlike SMU. AGAIN, SMU HAS ITS RESULTS FROM CALIFORNIA BUT IS DENYING and HIDING IT FROM THE PUBLIC. The results will become public in mid February so contact the board of california if it interests you.

[ol' man]

YOU have to be physical away from USA soil for approximately a year in order to not run into licensing problems. (at least 3 semesters). The remainder can be spent in Maine. Personally I would go to AUC or Saba. They are both better established and have California accredidation unlike SMU. AGAIN, SMU HAS ITS RESULTS FROM CALIFORNIA BUT IS DENYING and HIDING IT FROM THE PUBLIC. The results will become public in mid February so contact the board of california if it interests you.

And this quote is from a person who does not even know why SMU lost med-achiever.

[dapimp36]

Where do you guys get this from?? Everyone on this forum starts rumors and more rumors. You shouldn't bash a school that you do not attend. SMU might not have CA now, but it is comming soon. Its approval was delayed due to the hurricane. I go to SMU and believe it is a great school. Which other cairb. school allows you to study in the US. Stop starting ** rumors!

[ol' man]

I'm not bashing SMU. On the contrary, I'm pointing out that if a person does not even know what is going on with Med-Achiever, the how could he possibly have a clue about what's going on with CA?

Of course you are right about me not attending SMU. But that may yet be remedied. Been accepted, but want to go to Maine from here and having a hard time getting everything worked out (transferring in as a med 4).

Sorry if my post was taken the wrong way. Guess I'll have to work on my sarcastic wit!

[jguru2]

lord have mercy....is it that time of the year again...
this things come in waves...

[mdboy]

Dont believe anyone...find out for yourselves. Call Pat park and talk to her. You dont have to trust me either...but dont take what other people say. FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF.

[rowdymon]

Dont believe anyone...find out for yourselves. Call Pat park and talk to her. You dont have to trust me either...but dont take what other people say. FIND OUT FOR YOURSELF.

Can u post the email that she sent u? What were her exact words?

[SMU_Information]

mdboy,

If you had done the least bit of research on this forum, or even read the announcement from Dr. Thornton which is readily available at our website, you would know that it is common knowledge that we have had the factual report from California since Dec. 17. I have discussed this with azskeptic on this very forum.

It does not contain a decision, does not contain the insepctor's recommendations, merely California's undestanding of thefacts. We sent a reply with corrections to California.

The Board itself recommended we withdraw and resubmit our application. We have not heard a final answer back from them regarding this.

I, and the other members of the administration, have repeatedly counseled students not to come to SMU if they are only happy practicing in California until approved(not accreditation). We have accreditation. As a matter of fact, the ACCM is the same accrediting body for SMU, AUC, and Saba.

Again, this information has been readily available, but that would not serve your purposes, would it?

Again, you are violating ValueMD's TOS with your flooding.

[mdboy]

FIND OUT FOR YOURSELVES...CONTACT THE BOARD OF CALIFORNIA. DONT TAKE MY WORD OR ANYONE ELSES. TRUST NO ONE; INCLUDING ME.

[SMU_Information]

I notice that you failed to address any of my points, or to even admit that none of what you are saying is "news".

I also recommend contacting the Board for yourselves.

Now, where'd I put that troll repellant...? (at least you're helping me get to 1000).

[wolfvgang22]

I, and the other members of the administration, have repeatedly counseled students not to come to SMU if they are only happy practicing in California until approved(not accreditation). We have accreditation. As a matter of fact, the ACCM is the same accrediting body for SMU, AUC, and Saba.

It doesn't look like SMU is lying to anybody to me. Some people just have selective hearing.

I know there are a few Saba alumni who are still upset because Saba never got the CA approval that was supposed to happen "any day now" according to the rumor mill when they were students.
They still can't get licensed in CA, because CA decided not to make the approval retroactive beyond 2002. If that's not a cautionary tale, what is?

If SMU doesn't suit you, go somewhere else. The fact is, there is a long line of students who want your seat.

[mo5225md]

mdboy, i mean honestly....and you want to be a doctor! SMU, speciificaly jp, has repeatedly stated that unless your happy practicing somewhere other than CA...DO NOT GO THERE. Wolfgang is right...there are hundreds of other kids that would love a spot at SMU. SMU is a great school, and as a future student, they haven't hidden anything from me. So why don't you act like a future physician, or current one, whatever...and read all the facts before making allegations. AND STOP STATING MATERIAL THAT HAS ALREADY BEEN DISCUSSED IN THE FORUM, UNLESS YOU HAVE A QUESTION ABOUT IT OR HAVE SOME NEW MATERIAL TO ADD TO IT. Everyone here is very willing to answer your questions, but not when you attack the school for no reason.

AND THATS MY TAKE.....maybe we should make him/her wear the pantaloons....hahaha

[rowdymon]

Mdboy in his own way is just relaying the fact that the request to withdraw the CA application was denied by CA. Straight from Pat Park herself.

RD

[mdboy]

dont shoot the messenger. we will see what the results are soon. and then you will see smu for what it is really worth.

[rowdymon]

dont shoot the messenger. we will see what the results are soon. and then you will see smu for what it is really worth.

I'm still confused as to what your actual point is. Are you saying that the SMU administration is lying about something? If so, what is it lying about? And what is the truth?

[ol' man]

Mdboy in his own way is just relaying the fact that the request to withdraw the CA application was denied by CA. Straight from Pat Park herself.

RD

Where? I haven't seen that post. Can you give us the link to it?

[rowdymon]

Mdboy in his own way is just relaying the fact that the request to withdraw the CA application was denied by CA. Straight from Pat Park herself.

RD

Where? I haven't seen that post. Can you give us the link to it?

It's not a post. I emailed her myself and here is the reply I got

St. Matthew's request to withdraw its application was denied. School officials are aware of this. The site inspection team's report, which contains the team's findings and recommendations, will be available to the public in the third week of February. California's regulations give schools 60 days in which to examine the team's report and notify us if the report contains any factual errors. St. Matthew's has had the report since December 17, 2004. On Friday, they provided us with a list of what they perceive to be factual errors. The team members will take these into account and make corrections where necessary. I'm sorry but I can't share the report with you at this time. The report is confidential until St. Matthew's has had its full 60 days to examine the report. St. Matthew's officials have chosen not to share the report, or the team's recommendations, with its students. However, you can obtain a copy of the report after the 60 days are up, which will probably be the third week in February, allowing for any time the team needs to correct any factual errors. Please let me know if you'd like a copy of the report when it's available.

Pat Park, Foreign Schools Liaison, Medical Board of California

[jgilbert63]

The release of the SMU report would appear to coincide with the CA med board meeting this Thur and Fri, 17-18 Feb 05. Many people eagerly awaiting what CA has to say on this matter.

[JTP73]

The release of the SMU report would appear to coincide with the CA med board meeting this Thur and Fri, 17-18 Feb 05. Many people eagerly awaiting what CA has to say on this matter.

See this link: http://www.valuemd.com/ftopic29981.html