SABA pre-req problem

[krust3]

Hi guys, thanks in advance for your input.

I was hoping to apply in 2005, but saw the required coursework and realized I may have a big problem.

The website lists O-chem 1 full year or 8 semester hours with lab.
I've only got 5 semester hours (one semester lecture 3cred.+2cred. lab).

If the requirements are absolute, I'm "SOL". I wonder if they may waive this discrepency in light of the remainder of my resume:

14.5 total chemistry credits including undergrad research;
master degree in biomedical science (3.8 gpa);
B.S. sports medicine (3.7 gpa)
3 years experience as a physician assistant;
2 graduate level stats courses;
1 undgergrad & and 1 grad level genetics;
1 semester calculus;
2 undergrad psych & 1 grad level psych;
kinesiology, exercise physiology, nutrition, and all the required coursework and clinical experience required of a master's level physician assistant program.
also EMT-B.
no mcat

I emailed this question to the SABA web admissions, but haven't heard any word yet.

:cry:

[wolfvgang22]

Hi guys, thanks in advance for your input.

I was hoping to apply in 2005, but saw the required coursework and realized I may have a big problem.

The website lists O-chem 1 full year or 8 semester hours with lab.
I've only got 5 semester hours (one semester lecture 3cred.+2cred. lab).

If the requirements are absolute, I'm "SOL". I wonder if they may waive this discrepency in light of the remainder of my resume:

14.5 total chemistry credits including undergrad research;
master degree in biomedical science (3.8 gpa);
B.S. sports medicine (3.7 gpa)
3 years experience as a physician assistant;
2 graduate level stats courses;
1 undgergrad & and 1 grad level genetics;
1 semester calculus;
2 undergrad psych & 1 grad level psych;
kinesiology, exercise physiology, nutrition, and all the required coursework and clinical experience required of a master's level physician assistant program.
also EMT-B.
no mcat

I emailed this question to the SABA web admissions, but haven't heard any word yet.

:cry:
Assuming you have all the other pre-req courses, you'll probably have to take the one o-chem semester you are lacking. You might also need the MCAT as Saba is getting more competitive now with the CA approval. Saba admin can tell you for sure. Good luck!

[krust3]

thanks for the reply wolf

after fifty views, i didn't think i'd get any love :oops:

haven't heard from the admissions committe yet, i'm figuring i'll have to take that last o-chem...crap.
i'm hoping they hold off on the mcat requirement at least until i get in. that was one of the big plusses i had for saba.

good luck with the financial aid fiasco i've been reading about, guess you guys carry the burden of clearing the road for the rest of us.

[heart1st]

thanks for the reply wolf

after fifty views, i didn't think i'd get any love :oops:

haven't heard from the admissions committe yet, i'm figuring i'll have to take that last o-chem...crap.
i'm hoping they hold off on the mcat requirement at least until i get in. that was one of the big plusses i had for saba.

good luck with the financial aid fiasco i've been reading about, guess you guys carry the burden of clearing the road for the rest of us.

How did you become a PA? Were you in the service, or did you go through a program? Either way, did you have biochem? I think some have suggested that it might be possible to substitute biochem for part of o-chem. (I don't think "no" o-chem would work.)

heart

[scoobz1981]

I think with your previous O-chem class and your PA and EMT thing, that you won't have a problem getting in! Also, I doubt that they will ask you for MCAT's cause we don't require them on SABA. Not yet at least. When I got in 20 months ago, the topic didn't even come up. I was also allowed to substitute a physics course (biophysics) for my biology prerequisite.

Val

[krust3]

thanks guys, we'll see. i'd hate to go back for a second semester of o-chem just to fill a requirement. still waiting to hear from the admissions office for the official ruling, might be a while.

to answer the above question: i went through a civilian PA program.
it was good n' all, but if you want to be a doctor, you won't be satisfied as a PA.
now i am definitely considering military options for after med school, they've got some great programs.

thanks for the tip on the biophysics sub val. i think i'll be okay for bio though cause my anatomy/phys. courses in undergrad and grad school were listed as bio.

good luck in clinicals val, do you know where you'll be for them yet? setting up your own clinicals (if you choose to do so) sounds like a pain, i'll probably take what they give me.

and good luck to everyone regarding the financial aid situation too.

[gypsyfey]

We had similar concerns, my husband had two semesters of bio chem but no o-chem, he was also a PA for nine years and he was accepted
Bobbi

[krust3]

got the official word from bernice ouellet from the gardner office...

i basically got a cut n' paste response from the website regarding the pre-reqs.

what a frickin' waste.

if i substitute that 2nd o-chem with a biochem, do ya think i'll have to take a lab with it too?

[krust3]

We had similar concerns, my husband had two semesters of bio chem but no o-chem, he was also a PA for nine years and he was accepted
Bobbi

hey, how did you guys go about getting around that anyway? maybe i'm not talking to the right people?

[gypsyfey]

Ed was accepted a couple years ago but had to decline because of family issues, it is possible that he was grandfathered
but, the first thing we heard from gardner was that he didn't have o-chem
then they said they would address it in the phone interveiw
then they declined the phone interveiw and gave an acceptance
as others have said, the best thing to do is to get the app in
our arguement was going to be that o-chem is a pre req for bio chem, so if you have taken bio chem why do you need o chem?

[scoobz1981]

I like your train of thought! I want more exceptions like that! I want an exception like if you score a 3.0 GPA you don't have to write the USMLE.... lol... where is that ECFMG number, maybe I will write them and suggest it!


Val

[krust3]

got it


thanks again all


hey wolf, what's with that dumba$$ on the SDN carib. forum who was riding the guy that asked about which schools required mcats!? i saw you responded to that, otherwise i wouldn't have mentioned it.

[wolfvgang22]

got it


thanks again all


hey wolf, what's with that dumba$$ on the SDN carib. forum who was riding the guy that asked about which schools required mcats!? i saw you responded to that, otherwise i wouldn't have mentioned it.
Which one are you referring to? The original poster or the other guy who responded? PM me

I also wanted to mention that Saba admissions seemed pleased that I had taken biochemistry, it seems many people do not. If they'll let you substitute a course for O. Chem, Biochemistry would probably be a good one to choose.

[bigguy]

Hello,
I'm empathetic; I too was lacking one f-in semester of O Chem, and after contacting the 5 Carib schools (including Saba) that can do cores and residency in New York/Cali, I found that none of them were willing to waive any prereqs. I thought it was silly that there was no system for "testing out" of prereqs, regardless of demonstrable life experience or independent study/knowledge. Even a killer score on the MCAT doesn't get you out of a prereq.

I finally "bit the bullet" and took Org 2 nineteen years after taking Org 1. I thought it was sort of funny that some of my classmates were in Pampers when I was suffering through the first one. I sat in every meaningless evening lecture, did and wrote up every retarded lab, and cursed every time I entered the doors of the community college I was taking it at.

But I took it, and have just been accepted to SABA for September 2005, and Org 2 is now just an unpleasant memory from 2004.

Something that I came to realize in the process was that studying and practicing medicine is always a matter of "jumping through hoops" which are often meaningless. The schools must have requirements which parallel those of U.S. schools if their students are going to be made eligible for core rotations and residency in most states. They work hard to gain licensure approval in states like NY and CA. Anyone who'll be studying medicine will spend 6-10 years fulfilling licensure requirements and taking board exams which aren't necessarily adequate measures of acquired knowledge. The unpleasant prereqs. are just the first ugly step in a long, tedious journey.

So the bottom line is, I don't think you can get out of the Org 2, but my recommendation is that you submit your application NOW, before you take the course. You'll get a provisional acceptance in a month or so. The phone interviewers that I spoke to were really nice, and they indicated there were still spots open for May.....my sense is that they were very eager to accept reasonably qualified students. I'm certain that you would have a nearly immediate conditional acceptance. Once you've got that, you only have to worry about passing Org 2; you don't really have to worry about the grade.

And the interviewers indicated to me that the MCAT was not required, and my sense was that it was not at all important to acceptance for someone with reasonable grades. I believe that it's mentioned as "highly recommended" only to look good to the licensure committees of various states.

Take Org 2, and maybe we'll meet up in September.

Good luck!

Bigguy

[scoobz1981]

Hey Bigguy,
Congrats on your acceptance to SABA!!! I am sorry to hear about your orgo nightmare (anyone who has taken orgo already thinks its bad enough) cause if I were in your shoes, it would have been a tough choice!!! BTW, I know that correspondance courses at U of Pheonix online, and Athabasca University Online are accepted by admissions at most Caribbean schools, so if you are missing something you may want to look there! It will save you from going to classes, and you have all the flexibility you may need. Again, CONGRATS and I hope to one day meet you as a collegue BIGGUY.

Val

[bigguy]

Hey Val,
Thanks!

I'm all set for prereqs now, but just in case someone else reads this thread, I did a fairly exhaustive search of online courses, and couldn't find any for Org or Physics. For anyone lacking humanities credits, online would be a great option, but I don't think you'd find any lab based classes online....trust me, I tried. I even looked at online courses from Carib undergrad schools (I was that desperate not to take Org2 !) but couldn't find any.

Bigguy

[scoobz1981]

Here are all the Athabasca University Online Courses! They are very good actually. This is more for people who need an extra credit in something!


http://www.athabascau.ca/html/courses/list1.htm


There ya go,

Val

[Conway]

I remember you had said that you took some pre-req courses online or correspondance. I was reading through that link, and with the labs, wouldn't it be quite a hassle to fly all the way out to Calgary or Edmonton (or Alberta) to do the labs? Did you go over from Ontario?

[scoobz1981]

when I did the bio course, they sent me all the lab material required - plastic beakers, stirrers, test tubes, filters, etc. The rest of the stuff was everyday materials you could buy at the grocery store (sugar, baking soda, corn syrup, yeast). The labs were very simple, but effective, and to be honest, I got a lot more out of their labs (theory application) then I did out of 4 years of chem labs at U of T!

Val

[krust3]

bigguy, thanks for sharing. i'm either gonna do the same or look into that online course that val was talking about.

i'm considering taking a biochem course instead though, gotta check with gardner to see if a lab is required for that one first.

this'll push back how soon i may be able to start. maybe jan or may 06' now. with my luck, they'll require the mcat then too :roll:

[bts4202]

when I did the bio course, they sent me all the lab material required - plastic beakers, stirrers, test tubes, filters, etc. The rest of the stuff was everyday materials you could buy at the grocery store (sugar, baking soda, corn syrup, yeast). The labs were very simple, but effective, and to be honest, I got a lot more out of their labs (theory application) then I did out of 4 years of chem labs at U of T!

Val

Bio via correspondence may be ok. But i find it hard to imagine anyone being able to do an orgo experiment at home via correspondance. Nor can I imagine any respectable university thinking that is ok. Also, physics lab is too hard to figure out on your own with a TA there helping you.

[scoobz1981]

Not that I am defending Athabasca U, but here is the link to one of their physics courses.

http://www.athabascau.ca/html/syllabi/phys/phys200.htm

Note that "A compulsory lab component requires that students perform labs in a place of their choice using materials borrowed from Athabasca University Library, and some household items. Lab evaluation is based on written reports about the experiments performed."

Also, every student gets a TA designated to them for the course they are taking (no, it isn't 1 student per TA, but if you have any questions, you have the TA's phone number and there are times when you can call the TA - like thursdays 11-5 or something). The TA marks the assignments you submit, and I might add that they TA adds a lot of helpful comments onto the Assignments that U of T TA's RARELY DID!


As for the ORGO LABS:

http://www.athabascau.ca/html/syllabi/chem/chem350.htm

You will note that: "CHEM 350 has a compulsory laboratory component that requires students to perform a minimum of four days (32 hours) of laboratory work. Credit may be obtained for equivalent laboratory work carried out within the last five years at a recognized college or university. Speak with the Lab Coordinator for more information.

The laboratory session is normally scheduled for four consecutive days in Athabasca in June, July or August or on weekends in Edmonton during the rest of the academic year."

I think that answers most of the questions about Athabasca's standards... lol...

Val

[wolfvgang22]

Also, physics lab is too hard to figure out on your own with a TA there helping you.
Speak for yourself. I teach physics. 8)

But I agree with you that doing labs at home would be hard...it takes a really disciplined student to do such correspondence work well.

[bts4202]

As for the ORGO LABS:

http://www.athabascau.ca/html/syllabi/chem/chem350.htm

You will note that: "CHEM 350 has a compulsory laboratory component that requires students to perform a minimum of four days (32 hours) of laboratory work. Credit may be obtained for equivalent laboratory work carried out within the last five years at a recognized college or university. Speak with the Lab Coordinator for more information.

The laboratory session is normally scheduled for four consecutive days in Athabasca in June, July or August or on weekends in Edmonton during the rest of the academic year."

I think that answers most of the questions about Athabasca's standards... lol...

Val

So then I am right. It is not possible to do Orgo labs via corresponance, you have to fly there and do the labs for 4 days or whatever it is.

Thanks