CHAOS in the CARIB. CAUSES many TO OPT for SPARTAN!!!!

[shockandawe]

With medachiever loan pulling out of the caribbean, many will need to seek more affordable educations... This recent development will bring many to their knees and the only choice will be to choose Spartan. My fellow Spartanites, this could be horrible news for many. -s&a

[rdecastro]

With medachiever loan pulling out of the caribbean, many will need to seek more affordable educations... This recent development will bring many to their knees and the only choice will be to choose Spartan. My fellow Spartanites, this could be horrible news for many. -s&a

How many is "many"?

How many have opted for Spartan (in the <96 hours since the news came out)?

[shockandawe]

May they be trouble-makers. -s&a

[rdecastro]

May they be trouble-makers. -s&a

So, that means you have no idea and the title you chose for this thread is **?

[emt036]

Believe me, if you want a quality education, you will find a way to finance it.

[stephew]

i have to say, it may well be worth remembering that this "contest" of schools that many users get into is really not only missing the point, but rather sad. Frankly, if a school is good, I am supportive of it. If not, I am not. If the quality of my alma mater changed I would be sorry to see it but I certainly wouldnt see it as some lost contest. I cannot fathom the level of excitement generated by some who want to "one up" other schools. Or the lack of insight into how they come across. An IMG trying to feel superior? We are IMGs because we were a competitively weak bunch during our medical school application cycle. These schools have made a market off of this with varying levels of quality and success. And students are fighting over who's the best of a lot of leftovers? That sound you hear is every 21 year old admitted to a US medical school laughing. Boston fans have an historically healthier attitude to the red sox than what I see on these forums at times. Wish good fortune to any decent med student and pick a sports team to root for and leave it at that.

[shockandawe]

May they be trouble-makers. -s&a

So, that means you have no idea and the title you chose for this thread is **?

No, it means that I hope that "they" may be trouble-makers.

I learned about this thing, over the past few days, by the recently long list of PM's that I have been receiving from people enrolled in or previously thinking about other schools. I decided to leave the Spartan forum and venture out into other forums, something I rarely do, and I read many sad stories. If you stephew, think that I or any other Spartanite are happy about this new development, you are greatly mistaken. -s&a

[petenwe]

An IMG trying to feel superior? We are IMGs because we were a competitively weak bunch during our medical school application cycle. These schools have made a market off of this with varying levels of quality and success. And students are fighting over who's the best of a lot of leftovers? That sound you hear is every 21 year old admitted to a US medical school laughing. Boston fans have an historically healthier attitude to the red sox than what I see on these forums at times. Wish good fortune to any decent med student and pick a sports team to root for and leave it at that.

You are right but this is human nature i really don't understand it but i have seen it every where.

[shockandawe]

There are two things going on here. On the one hand, we have the state licensing boards squeezing down on the carib schools and on the other hand, we have the financial squeeze of this new loan situation. Many schools are going to go down, even before the states can touch them, by the students simply not being able to finance their educations.

Basically, this school can survive, just fine, with 8 to 10 students per semester, especially in the winter and spring semesters. The owners would love all the new business. If they could, they would love to have, say, 60 students per semester.

On the other hand, the administration (not including ******, who needs students so that he can look good in front of the owners) do NOT care for having more students, because more students means more work.

Two ways that students can drive change at Spartan:

#1- They could stop coming to Spartan and just go to other places, thus forcing a change in the administration. This was proposed by anotherstudent. (A person whom, although I might not always agree with, is by no doubt, a very valuable member to this forum.) The only problem with this is that you can always get a few students to come to your school. If you invest 10 bucks and it makes you a thousand but then the next year, you only make 50 bucks, that is fine as long as you can survive, as long as you are not losing money and Spartan is making a killing, regardless of having 10 or 20 or 30 students per semester.

#2- The students that do come to Spartan, challenge the administration. They start a revolution. anotherstudent would say, "The students that come to Spartan are wimps who listen to everything that mommy and daddy say, they cannot challenge anybody." And he is right... but how about now??

Now my fellow Spartanites, we are coming to a new era, which will make or break the carib medical experience, school by school. We are being squeezed by the licensing committees, yet there are others, from neighboring schools, that are being squeezed both financially and in terms of licensure. These people will seek refuge in our home. Many of them are fighters, that will not tolerate this administration. These irregular spartan students will demand change. Or they will wimp out, like everyone else... Time will tell.

Although they are atypical and although what is happening is by no means a good thing for carib. schools, of course, they are welcome. However, if Spartan does rise out of this thing but the administration does not change its act and apply for state to state approval in CA, NY, etc, the final effects of this loan situation will actually hurt Spartan more than anyone else, because the end result will be a school that can produce MD's with great potential (as you can see by the Spartan success stories), that will no longer be able to survive in today's world, which is demanding nation-wide state to state approval and compliance.

What I am saying, essentially, is that the Spartan finances will rise, but if they do not do anything to improve the quality and compliance, they will eventually be squeezed out by the state boards and this honeymoon period of acquiring even more students would only have blinded and caused them to be more in denial thus only leading to their downfall. -s&a

[azskeptic]

There are two things going on here. On the one hand, we have the state licensing boards squeezing down on the carib schools and on the other hand, we have the financial squeeze of this new loan situation. Many schools are going to go down, even before the states can touch them, by the students simply not being able to finance their educations.

Basically, this school can survive, just fine, with 8 to 10 students per semester, especially in the winter and spring semesters. The owners would love all the new business. If they could, they would love to have, say, 60 students per semester.

On the other hand, the administration (not including ******, who needs students so that he can look good in front of the owners) do NOT care for having more students, because more students means more work.

Two ways that students can drive change at Spartan:

#1- They could stop coming to Spartan and just go to other places, thus forcing a change in the administration. This was proposed by anotherstudent. (A person whom, although I might not always agree with, is by no doubt, a very valuable member to this forum.) The only problem with this is that you can always get a few students to come to your school. If you invest 10 bucks and it makes you a thousand but then the next year, you only make 50 bucks, that is fine as long as you can survive, as long as you are not losing money and Spartan is making a killing, regardless of having 10 or 20 or 30 students per semester.

#2- The students that do come to Spartan, challenge the administration. They start a revolution. anotherstudent would say, "The students that come to Spartan are wimps who listen to everything that mommy and daddy say, they cannot challenge anybody." And he is right... but how about now??

Now my fellow Spartanites, we are coming to a new era, which will make or break the carib medical experience, school by school. We are being squeezed by the licensing committees, yet there are others, from neighboring schools, that are being squeezed both financially and in terms of licensure. These people will seek refuge in our home. Many of them are fighters, that will not tolerate this administration. These irregular spartan students will demand change. Or they will wimp out, like everyone else... Time will tell.

Although they are atypical and although what is happening is by no means a good thing for carib. schools, of course, they are welcome. However, if Spartan does rise out of this thing but the administration does not change its act and apply for state to state approval in CA, NY, etc, the final effects of this loan situation will actually hurt Spartan more than anyone else, because the end result will be a school that can produce MD's with great potential (as you can see by the Spartan success stories), that will no longer be able to survive in today's world, which is demanding nation-wide state to state approval and compliance.

What I am saying, essentially, is that the Spartan finances will rise, but if they do not do anything to improve the quality and compliance, they will eventually be squeezed out by the state boards and this honeymoon period of acquiring even more students would only have blinded and caused them to be more in denial thus only leading to their downfall. -s&a

Don't worry....new schools will pop up when old schools fold due to lack of funding. There is actually oversupply of med school 'seats' right now in the world and especially in the Carib.

[wolfvgang22]

You gotta admit it: Spartan with it's low tuition is looking a lot more attractive to many with the disappearance of Medachiever. Many who would snort at the idea of attending Spartan may now see it as a viable alternative because of the low tuition.

Is this a good or bad thing? Should Spartan be "plan B" for many?

[azskeptic]

You gotta admit it: Spartan with it's low tuition is looking a lot more attractive to many with the disappearance of Medachiever. Many who would snort at the idea of attending Spartan may now see it as a viable alternative because of the low tuition.

Is this a good or bad thing? Should Spartan be "plan B" for many?

I can see the ads Spartan, the other choice

or

Spartan, the Kia of offshore med schools

or

Spartan with spartan expenses

I don't think St. Lucia needs to call out the National Guard yet to help meet the flights of students flocking but I could be wrong. As SHock says until the administration acts differently it will not be in the front of the line for most...students are getting pretty educated on what is available.

[wolfvgang22]

Spartan, the Kia of offshore med schools
.
Say no more my friend.... 8)

[shockandawe]

You gotta admit it: Spartan with it's low tuition is looking a lot more attractive to many with the disappearance of Medachiever. Many who would snort at the idea of attending Spartan may now see it as a viable alternative because of the low tuition.

Is this a good or bad thing? Should Spartan be "plan B" for many?

I can see the ads Spartan, the other choice

or

Spartan, the Kia of offshore med schools

or

Spartan with spartan expenses

I don't think St. Lucia needs to call out the National Guard yet to help meet the flights of students flocking but I could be wrong. As SHock says until the administration acts differently it will not be in the front of the line for most...students are getting pretty educated on what is available.


Unfortunately, for many , it could be:

SPARTAN, the ONLY choice.

Az, you talk about alternatives, but you do not give specifics which people, young people who visit this site would like to have. Please elaborate, Az... In light of losing Medacheiver, what other alternatives with tuitions that can be afforded by the student who depends on loans, are there????? You have been on probably every single off-shore medical school website, and your input might help a lot of people out by answering this question. What is the alterbative??

Before you try to answer that question, remember that without a co-signer, people cannot even come close to affording so many of these schools...

The question is this: what school/schools are there that can be affordable for the student that depends on loans, completely?????? -s&a

[wolfvgang22]

You make a good point, also, shock (you often do when you're not ranting about ******* or whoever...:lol:).

I know folks who would love to drive a Kia, because it sure beats walking uphill in the snow. If you're real careful with that all-plastic Kia, it might last.

[azskeptic]

You gotta admit it: Spartan with it's low tuition is looking a lot more attractive to many with the disappearance of Medachiever. Many who would snort at the idea of attending Spartan may now see it as a viable alternative because of the low tuition.

Is this a good or bad thing? Should Spartan be "plan B" for many?

I can see the ads Spartan, the other choice

or

Spartan, the Kia of offshore med schools

or

Spartan with spartan expenses

I don't think St. Lucia needs to call out the National Guard yet to help meet the flights of students flocking but I could be wrong. As SHock says until the administration acts differently it will not be in the front of the line for most...students are getting pretty educated on what is available.


Unfortunately, for many , it could be:

SPARTAN, the ONLY choice.

Az, you talk about alternatives, but you do not give specifics which people, young people who visit this site would like to have. Please elaborate, Az... In light of losing Medacheiver, what other alternatives with tuitions that can be afforded by the student who depends on loans, are there????? You have been on probably every single off-shore medical school website, and your input might help a lot of people out by answering this question. What is the alterbative??

Before you try to answer that question, remember that without a co-signer, people cannot even come close to affording so many of these schools...

The question is this: what school/schools are there that can be affordable for the student that depends on loans, completely?????? -s&a

Shock, money isn't the only issue. There are cheaper med schools than Spartan but the question of licensure and lifestyle (who wants to live in a 3rd world country or worse) make the decision more than which is cheapest. Spartan has always been cheaper than other schools but not many students go there,eh? That says that the issues are bigger. The financing issues will get met somehow but if one can't afford to go to a $12 or 14,000/year tuition med school vs $10,650 Spartan the problem is bigger than the few thousands difference. Some of the schools can get them approved in every state.

Now is the time for students to get creative. I know some docs who convinced some towns that they liked to finance them,with the agreement they would return to the town to practice. There is a student here on the board who convinced his medical practice to loan him the money for school; he is a PA and wants to upgrade to MD. One should be making friends with banks and asking HOW to do this. Don't settle for less than you need to; the stakes are too high.

[shockandawe]

double post, sorry..

[shockandawe]

But Az, it isn't just a few thousand dollar difference.. It is a huge difference. Spartan charges $3,500 per semester, which is 9 semesters total and that makes a total tuition cost of $31,500!!!!!! Put yourself in the shoes of someone who has nothing and is totally dependent of loans.

You need to pay extra fees for your core rotations only, you should be able to do all of your electives for free. Lets add the cores. There are medicine 12 weeks, peds 6 weeks, surgery 8 weeks, psychiatry 6 weeks, Ob/Gyn 8 weeks. That makes a total of 40 weeks costing $200 per week, which makes a total of $8,000. Now your total tuition fees will be $39, 500. Throw in there a board review course, which runs to about an extra $3,000 and now you have a total of $42,500.

So now you are paying a little over 40,000 bucks for an ALL USA rotation education and a review course as a bonus!!!!! This is at a school which has grads that have made it into the top university programs in the USA, including Mayo, Harvard, MD Anderson, etc, etc, With grads that have won very prestigious awards, residents of the year, doctors of the year, etc.. licensed grads in 44 states. Wow, sign me up. Right???

When I was a student at Spartan, CA meant nothing. I cared little about licensure in CA because we were always told that it was probably impossible and who cares about a state or two, here or there. If you ever even thought about saying something like the word "transfer" I would have laughed at you. In fact, you will notice something and that is that very extremely, very few people ever transfer out of Spartan and you get a glimpse of why that is, from the statement above...

Remember Az, that we did our rotations SIDE-by-SIDE with USA and other highly expensive carib schools. These are 2 years, 5 total semesters of medical schools.

For our basic sciences, we live in one of the best islands in the carib. We have ClubMed 10 minutes from the school. We have Sandals, Hyatt, Hilton, etc... Compared to the rest of the carib., that is good living. We only do 4 semesters of basic sciences, just like USA grads, but then we can take a 5th semester off to take the review course and study for our boards, full-time!!! Do the teachers suck at Spartan?? Generally, save for a couple here or there, they do suck, but we have an opportunity to take that extra semester and study like crazy with the benefit of the review course.

Pound per pound, dollar per dollar, there is no school that can even come close to competing with Spartan. Even you Az, cannot give any concrete affordable school, that can offer all usa rotations with the same or equivalent price range as Spartan. Normally, I would care nothing for any of the carib schools, including Saba. I said I "would care nothing". However, there is a problem. One single problem. One major problem. And that is that they (Spartan administration) still have not applied for state licensure in places like CA. If they would get up off of their butts and get CA, NY, that's it man... They would be awesome, in my book. Right now, I wouldn't choose Spartan, I would definitely take Saba over Spartan.

Spartan has professionally gotten me way beyond my wildest dreams. But every Spartan grad has a bitter taste in his/her mouth when they think of their schools' administration. We basically hate them. And deep down inside, we know that we did it on our own. They were sub-zero help, save for the fact that we got our USA rotations, but even our rotations, we had to do all the scud work to call and apply directly to the hospitals. Very few successful grads care about coming on this forum. Having ZAATARI is a blessing. For me, I am so amazed in how my life ended up, that I love to hear about others and I always think to myself, wow. I met Spartan grads at Yale-New Haven, Harvard, etc.. There are even current ones, current residents in these places.

For many, Spartan is the ONLY choice. Is Spartan a KIA??? The answer is probably yes. But it is a KIA with a Toyota engine. It will get you those USA rotations and experience that you need to make it into a USA residency and it has excellent of mileage but just like all those other carib schools that are not applying to CA, it could break down or even crash if the administration does not clean up its act. -s&a

[greendogz]

Personally, to those who ask if Spartan is a Kia, a better analogy is to say that Spartan is a Kia but with F-1 drivers. A car performs only as well as the driver and from experience those of us "spartanites" who make it are way beyond our American counterparts. It's like comparing F-1 to Nascar :-)

[shockandawe]

Personally, to those who ask if Spartan is a Kia, a better analogy is to say that Spartan is a Kia but with F-1 drivers. A car performs only as well as the driver and from experience those of us "spartanites" who make it are way beyond our American counterparts. It's like comparing F-1 to Nascar :-)

That's what I'm talk'in about.. Dog, with this one analogy of yours, you basically summed up most everything that I have been trying to say since the beginning of my debut in this Spartan forum. That's it right there. -s&a

[ActionPotential]

Hey Shock and Awe,

Rest assured, it would take a hell of a lot more than Key Bank's withdrawal to propel thinking people to the ******** (edited) that is Spartan "med" school. Not everyone is as stupid as you.

[dt]

Hey Shock and Awe,

Rest assured, it would take a hell of a lot more than Key Bank's withdrawal to propel thinking people to the sh*thole that is Spartan "med" school. Not everyone is as stupid as you.

Well, I see this is a classy comment. Glad to see that you are so elegant.

[shockandawe]

Hey Shock and Awe,

Rest assured, it would take a hell of a lot more than Key Bank's withdrawal to propel thinking people to the sh*thole that is Spartan "med" school. Not everyone is as stupid as you.

Well, I see this is a classy comment. Glad to see that you are so elegant.

Indeed, a classy and thoughtful comment. Thank you for your "reassurance", ActionPotential.

Considering the loan situation and since Spartan is way too low for someone as great as you, maybe, when you get sick of SMU's "plastic cadavers" and overpriced tuition, you can always transfer to Saddam University in Iraq, they are CA approved and you know they use "real cadavers", even live ones... :wink: -s&a