Podiatry vs carrib MD

[Jake101]

hello, i am sort of confused. I was granted an interview with a podiatry school, but was already accepted to a few carrib schools. I am wondering if i should spend the time and money to go the interview or just stick with a M.D. from the carrib.

thanks guys

[Scott1981]

well....... you are comparing apples to oranges.

a podiatrist is very much different than a doctor.
do you like to treat feet or do you want to treat the whole person?

[jguru2]

hello, i am sort of confused. I was granted an interview with a podiatry school, but was already accepted to a few carrib schools. I am wondering if i should spend the time and money to go the interview or just stick with a M.D. from the carrib.

thanks guys

which degree would you be happy with? which job would you prefer doing?

[teratos]

hello, i am sort of confused. I was granted an interview with a podiatry school, but was already accepted to a few carrib schools. I am wondering if i should spend the time and money to go the interview or just stick with a M.D. from the carrib.

thanks guys

feet vs. not-the-feet

[azskeptic]

there are DPM's trying desperately to get MD degrees since they find they are treated as para-professionals, not primary care providers and have to have an MD sign off for them in hospital surgical centers,etc. You'll end up with about as much debt and the inability to make enough to pay yourself out of debt.....

[gtheofilis]

If you are truly interested in medicine then definately go the MD Carib route or the DO route.

I know a lot of podiatrists that wish they had gone the other way.

[wolfvgang22]

go MD unless you are really into feet...yummmmm.....feeeeeet :lol:

[azskeptic]

go MD unless you are really into feet...yummmmm.....feeeeeet :lol:

However, if Paris Hilton offers to pay for you to go through podiatry school and have you take care of her feet reconsider.

[teratos]

However, if Paris Hilton offers to pay for you to go through podiatry school and have you take care of her feet reconsider.

I saw her feet in that video. Not bad. G

[azskeptic]

However, if Paris Hilton offers to pay for you to go through podiatry school and have you take care of her feet reconsider.

I saw her feet in that video. Not bad. G

Maybe she would pay for one of us to go to film school? I read her interview today in Rolling Stone Magazine....she is 'something' else...not to be missed.

[microphage]

hello, i am sort of confused. I was granted an interview with a podiatry school, but was already accepted to a few carrib schools. I am wondering if i should spend the time and money to go the interview or just stick with a M.D. from the carrib.

thanks guys

I applied and went through the whole podiatry process..... I was granted an interview for 6 schools within 2 days of submitting my online app(just the app, nothing else). Let's see... I was wined, dined and hoteled in San Fran(Japan Town), huge scholarships in Des Moines... and treated to cafeteria food in North Chicago(with a decent scholarship).

Oh yeah, I'm here in the Caribbean with no scholarships and no wine but sometimes dined with the occasional white coat mixer that I sneak to for some free pizza. It all depends on what you wanna do.

Opinion: Podiatry seems like it's begging for students and they seem to get close to their quota but AUC also has a handful of podiatry students who left Pod schools to become an MD. Take it for what its worth...

[stateofequilibrium]

go MD unless you are really into feet...yummmmm.....feeeeeet :lol:

However, if Paris Hilton offers to pay for you to go through podiatry school and have you take care of her feet reconsider.

Conversely, if Uma Thurman pays you to go through podiatry and have you take care of her feet, run as fast as you can to the nearest plane to the Caribbean.

You know, being a leg man myself, I do think feet are pretty important to the package.

[microphage]

However, if Paris Hilton offers to pay for you to go through podiatry school and have you take care of her feet reconsider.

I saw her feet in that video. Not bad. G

It was green... Green feet are hot...

[atiyensalem]

I am apodiatrist and MD. I must tell you if you want to combie medicine and Surgery go podiatry, if you want to make more money go Podiatry, if you find yourself limited then go MD, you must be ready for the boring job with no surgery if you are pediatrician,psychiatrist, etc.
The cosy of Podiatry is 3 times as more expnesive than MD program, but at least you will for sure get a license any where in the stae and make 6 figures in the firt year. I have MD and DPM because I am involved in research. If you go to carrebian school for MD then after you survive the ego of having you MD the be ready for the real world of kissing ***** of evey doctor to give you recommnedation and a spot at the hospital, if you pass step1,2,3 csa the be ready for the real world of getting a licnes to practice..

[gasdr]

THE LAST POSTER IS DELUSIONAL (ATIYENSALEM)!!! MORE MONEY IN PODIATRY. THAT IS A JOKE. A GRADUATING MD (REGARDLESS OF SPECIALTY) is going to make much more money than a graduating podiatrist. I am currently a 2nd year medical resident and am making as much as my first year out as a podiatrist, post residency.
Some pods do very, very well, but those folks have been in practice for a long time and are likely better businessmen than they are podiatrists.
That is the only way you will do well in podiatry.
If that is what you like, then go for it. 6 figures out of podiatry school/residency? What a joke!
To the originial poster. If you want to be limited to just feet and accept a role as a pseudo-doctor then go to podiatry school. You will be somewhat limited as a caribbean doc but if you do really well on boards, get good letter of rec then you can still chose your specialty.
Good luck.

[AUCMD2006]

you arr not guaranteed surgical training in pod school are you? the pods i talked to said it was highly competitive and an advertising gimmick used on students telling them they can do surgery when in fact very few do....

and by surgery i mean the hammer toe corrections not bunionectomies...

with the mass of podiatrists out there i doubt the matket pays that well.. so you are in research?

[footanklesx]

hello, i am sort of confused. I was granted an interview with a podiatry school, but was already accepted to a few carrib schools. I am wondering if i should spend the time and money to go the interview or just stick with a M.D. from the carrib.

thanks guys

As previous postings indicated, you need to determine what you want to do. If you are truly interested in the Podiatry profession, then I say go to podiatry school. If you always wanted to be a MD, then go to the Carib MD school. Podiatry school is not a substitution for MD school.

[footanklesx]

there are DPM's trying desperately to get MD degrees since they find they are treated as para-professionals, not primary care providers and have to have an MD sign off for them in hospital surgical centers,etc. You'll end up with about as much debt and the inability to make enough to pay yourself out of debt.....

It is pretty sad to see how misguided you are about the Podiatric Surgical profession. As a practicing Podiatric Surgeon, I can say that I have not been treated as a para professionals by majority of the health care professionals that I have come across in the health care settings. The few health care professionals that view Podiatry as a para professional are people that are not familiar with the Podiatry profession or familiar with the older Chiropody profession. Podiatry has changed tremendously over the years.

As for being a primary care provider, you are correct that Podiatric Surgeons are not primary care provider. In fact, most of the medical specialists are NOT primary care providers. The only medical specialties that can be classified as primary care provider are Internal Medicine, Family Practice, OB/Gyn, Pediatrics. Hence, an Orthopedic Surgeon are not primary care physicians.

As for having a MD signing off for DPMs in the hospital and surgery centers, I am not sure what you are referring to. I have never had a MD or DO sign off for me. The only thing that MDs / DOs do for me is that they medically clear my patients for surgery. I admit my own patients into the hospital onto my service and consult medicine service if they have medical issues that need to be managed.

In terms of surgery, I perform surgery at the hosptial or surgery centers. With my residency training, I am currently Board Qualified (soon to be Board Certified) in both forefoot and reconstructive rearfoot surgery. Procedures that I perform include hammertoes, bunions, neuroma excision, foot and ankle fractures, flatfoot reconstruction surgery, ankle arthroscopy, ankle fusions, triple arthrodesis, limb deformity correction with internal and external fixation, charcot foot reconstruction, diabetic foot, etc... I currently take foot and ankle trauma call from my hospital's ER. I also have two local orthopedic groups referring to my group the reconstructive foot and ankle cases that they don't want to handle.

Of course, not all Podiatrists do the same type of procedures that I do. Many of the Podiatric Surgeons will only perform forefoot surgery (hammertoes, bunions, neuromas, etc...). There are some Podiatrists who do not do any surgery and are focused on routine foot care and conservative management of various foot ailments. Podiatrists usually restrict what they do based on either their residency training or what they want to do. As for me, I was fortunate to complete one of the those three years Podiatric Surgical residency programs that trained me in both forefoot and reconstructive rearfoot surgical procedures. I have had the opportunity to complete one of the AO/ASIF Orthopedic Trauma Fellowship. Currently, I am scheduled to go to the Ilizarov Institute in Kurgan, Russia for a fellowship on Limb Deformity Reconstruction using Ilizarov External Fixation Principles.

As you can see, the Podiatric profession has come a long way. Majority of the Podiatry School's curriculum are mirrored after the MD/DO curriculum. In fact, Podiatric students at Des Moines University and Arizona Midwestern University sit in the same basic science courses as the DO students and are graded on the exact same curve as the DO students. The Podiatric Surgical residency graduates today are far better trained than most of the older Podiatrists. Of course, there are several older Podiatrists that are very talented and have helped to advance the Podiatric professions.

[footanklesx]

you arr not guaranteed surgical training in pod school are you? the pods i talked to said it was highly competitive and an advertising gimmick used on students telling them they can do surgery when in fact very few do....

and by surgery i mean the hammer toe corrections not bunionectomies...

with the mass of podiatrists out there i doubt the matket pays that well.. so you are in research?

In the past, only the students that did well in podiatry school were able to get into one of the Podiatric Surgical residency programs. However, that is changing now in that most of the residency programs are being revamped into one of the two new podiatric surgical residency model. Both of the new podiatric surgical residency models will allow for the resident to get surgical training. The difference between the two models is that one only trains the resident in forefoot surgery (hammertoe, bunionectomy, neuroma excision, metatarsal fracture, etc...) and the other model will train the resident in both forefoot and reconstructive rearfoot surgery (ankle fracture, flatfoot reconstruction, limb deformity correction, ankle fusion, triple arthrodesis, ankle arthroscopy, etc....). Hence, all of the new podiatry school grads should get some form of podiatric surgical training in the near future.

Like all professions, we all have those that are disgruntle with their respective profession. There are several practicing Podiatrists whom are disgruntled with the profession because they are not able to do surgery or perform some of the more complex foot and ankle surgeries due to the fact that they were not able to get into one of those surgical residency programs due to whatever reasons (horrible grades, horrible clinical skills, etc....). There are some disgruntled Podiatrists that were medical school rejects and are unhappy with the profession because they really wanted to be a MD and were never interested in Podiatry. As I tell prospective podiatry students, podiatry school is NOT a subsitute for MD/DO school. If they are interested in Podiatry, then go to Podiatry School. If they are are interested in MD/DO school, I tell them not to go to Podiatry school and should concentrate on their efforts in getting into a MD school.

[footanklesx]

THE LAST POSTER IS DELUSIONAL (ATIYENSALEM)!!! MORE MONEY IN PODIATRY. THAT IS A JOKE. A GRADUATING MD (REGARDLESS OF SPECIALTY) is going to make much more money than a graduating podiatrist. I am currently a 2nd year medical resident and am making as much as my first year out as a podiatrist, post residency.
Some pods do very, very well, but those folks have been in practice for a long time and are likely better businessmen than they are podiatrists.
That is the only way you will do well in podiatry.
If that is what you like, then go for it. 6 figures out of podiatry school/residency? What a joke!
To the originial poster. If you want to be limited to just feet and accept a role as a pseudo-doctor then go to podiatry school. You will be somewhat limited as a caribbean doc but if you do really well on boards, get good letter of rec then you can still chose your specialty.
Good luck.

Several of my classmates from Podiatry school started above 100,000 annually right out of residency training. So, it is possible. However, I do have to point out that it is currently not the norm for a new podiatric surgical residency grad to start above 100,000 annually. This may change in the near future. As for Podiatric Surgical Residency salaries, many of the podiatric surgical residents are paid on the same salary scale as their MD/DO resident counterparts at the same hospital. I was paid the exact same salaries for PGY-1/2/3 as the MD residents in my hospital.

[footanklesx]

I applied and went through the whole podiatry process..... I was granted an interview for 6 schools within 2 days of submitting my online app(just the app, nothing else). Let's see... I was wined, dined and hoteled in San Fran(Japan Town), huge scholarships in Des Moines... and treated to cafeteria food in North Chicago(with a decent scholarship).

Oh yeah, I'm here in the Caribbean with no scholarships and no wine but sometimes dined with the occasional white coat mixer that I sneak to for some free pizza. It all depends on what you wanna do.

Opinion: Podiatry seems like it's begging for students and they seem to get close to their quota but AUC also has a handful of podiatry students who left Pod schools to become an MD. Take it for what its worth...

In all podiatry schools, there will be students who ended up going to podiatry school because they were rejected by MD/DO schools. Those students will end up being miserable in podiatry school because they really wanted to be a MD/DO and were not interested in Podiatry at the start. Podiatry school is not a subsitute for MD/DO school. Podiatry can be rewarding for those who are genuinely interested in Podiatry.

[DOCplucinski]

There are different specialties one can specialize with podiatry including surgery and dermatology. Just thought I would throw that out there, not that I would do it.

[sheikh1]

Dont even compare!!!

[DOCplucinski]

You're right, it doesn't compare but I like to be balanced :)

So I was throwing some positive stuff out there

[GeorgeMD2B]

hello, i am sort of confused. I was granted an interview with a podiatry school, but was already accepted to a few carrib schools. I am wondering if i should spend the time and money to go the interview or just stick with a M.D. from the carrib.

thanks guys
Podiatry and medicine are two different fields, in general medicine is a better field than podiatry. From what I know there seems to be an oversupply of podiatrists. If you were choosing between an Osteopathic Medical school and a Caribbean program that would be something different.

[footanklesx]

There are different specialties one can specialize with podiatry including surgery and dermatology. Just thought I would throw that out there, not that I would do it.

You are correct that DPMs can specialize. They can specialize in Dermatology, Sports Medicine, Podopediatrics, etc.. In terms of specializing in surgery, that has changed. Starting 2008, all podiatry school graduates will be doing surgically based podiatric residency programs. The direction of the Podiatry field has shifted more towards surgery. Hence, all new graduates will be trained in Foot and Ankle surgery. The younger DPMs are better trained than the older DPMs. For example, in the past 2 years, I have completed the AO/ASIF Orthopedic Trauma Fellowship in Switzerland and the Kurgan Ilizarov External Fixation Fellowship in Russia. These opportunities were traditionally restricted to Orthopedic Surgeons. However, these opportunities have been opened to the DPMs as well. Due to the increase in surgical training, some of the Orthopedic groups are now starting to hire DPMs to cover all of the foot and ankle surgeries for the group.

[footanklesx]

Podiatry and medicine are two different fields, in general medicine is a better field than podiatry. From what I know there seems to be an oversupply of podiatrists. If you were choosing between an Osteopathic Medical school and a Caribbean program that would be something different.

Actually, there is not an oversupply of podiatrists. In fact, there are many parts of the country that are in need of podiatrists. The problem with the Podiatry field is that there is a huge concentration of Podiatrists in certain areas of the country (usually in major metropolitan cities that have a Podiatry school in it). Hence, you will see an oversupply of Podiatrists in those areas.

As you said, DPM schools and MD/DO schools are two different entities. One requires you to be specialized from day one, where the other school allows you to specialize during your residency training. That is why I always tell any MD/DO rejects to consider carefully about going to DPM schools because DPM schools are not a substitute for MD/DO school.

[GeorgeMD2B]

Australia has a serious shortage of podiatrists but it is due to financial considerations, most aren't paid very well. In the US, medical recruiters classify them with physicians unlike chiropractors who are witch doctors. Podiatry is definitely more lucrative in the US than anywhere else. A primary care doctor in Australia can earn quite well, almost comparable to the typical US PCP.
Dentistry definitely the most lucrative health field, even more so than medicine. Thanks to managed care, physician insurance reimbursements have plummeted. Dentists have more chances to become entrepreneurial, if all you care about is $$$, Dentistry is better than medicine.

[Newlifedrj]

there are DPM's trying desperately to get MD degrees since they find they are treated as para-professionals, not primary care providers and have to have an MD sign off for them in hospital surgical centers,etc. You'll end up with about as much debt and the inability to make enough to pay yourself out of debt.....

Wow! Please Please Please! If you're completely misinformed, if you don't have the correct response, and if you don't know what the heck your talking about; DON'T POST!..Its simple...

Ok I'll bite.. TO clear up this complete misunderstanding; while there might be some DPM's that are trying to gain an MD, that does NOT mean that they are total incompetent idiots.. The DPM degree is RARELY degraded anymore by the medical community and general public by those who are informed about the podiatric profession.

Podiatrist go to MEDICAL SCHOOL, granted it is not an "In general" medical school, but one that allows you to specialize early on. IF an MD or DO wanted to have the same exact scope of practice as a DPM he/she would have to complete a residency in Orthopedic Surgery, THEN they would complete a Foot and Ankle fellowship.

Fact is that DPM's complete 4 years of Podiatric Medical School, then minimum 2-3 yrs of residency and thus they are granted the FULL ability to operate, treat (prescribe), and diagnose a patients lower limb illnesses.

DPM's make physician salary's, and they ARE just as much a doctor as an MD or DO with the exeption that DPM's can't treat the entire body, thus they can't take in "general" calls, and can't be consulted for upper limb associated problems Within a hospital..But they do have knowledge in the upper extremities, hence the basic science courses they undergo... They have extensive training in surgery as well, and HAVE EARNED the RIGHT to be called physicians by law (look it up..)

General Orthopedists Usually can't possibly mirror the knowledge that a DPM has about the lower extremities... As a DPM has over 4-5 years (after basic sciences) of CONCENTRATED lower extremity training. DPM's have the ability gain FULL licensure in ALL US states and are recognized outside of the US by many countries.

Here's what on *average a Podiatric Physician (http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_HC07000103.html) makes <--Click

As you can see their salary basically mirrors that of a general practitioner whether MD or DO.. Of course there are some who make way over 300k (I know of some), while statistically there are some who make less than 90k... It all depends.. Obviously the compensation of a Podiatric Surgeon in private practice will be MUCH greater than a non-surgical podiatric physician... Depends...

Podiatrists in MANY hospitals have the right to FULLY manage and treat a patient... If and only when the patient has an illness that pertains to the their lower limb area... Some hospitals even let DPM's admit their own patients! Podiatrist are classified as PHYSICIANS and will continue to strive...

I could go on and on.. Point being is STOP talking nonsense when you have NO IDEA about what your talking about.. The DPM degree is very respected and if you decide to become a podiatric physician then you WILL be making more than enough money in order for you to pay back your educational loans...

Please, just show respect to all aspects of the medical field.. Because it is unethical and childish to WRONGFULLY depict a profession as respected and as needed as podiatry.. Heck TONS of people DON'T even know that Podiatry is separate from MD's, and that they go to a completely different type of medical school.. You might have even gone to one when you were younger and you didn't even have a clue as to what the difference between them and MD's was.. Point No. 2 being is a physician is a physician..period... Much like a surgeon is a surgeon, it doesn't matter if the surgeon only operates on the hand or feet...

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT! Please, for the sake of other medical professions..

Thank you!

[azskeptic]

been widely talked about on podiatry forums about oversupply of podiatrists,limited practice,etc. see this discussion forum

What's Wrong W/ Podiatry Now A Days? [Archive] - Student Doctor Network Forums (http://forums.studentdoctor.net/archive/index.php/t-40240.html)

Wow! Please Please Please! If you're completely misinformed, if you don't have the correct response, and if you don't know what the heck your talking about; DON'T POST!..Its simple...

Ok I'll bite.. TO clear up this complete misunderstanding; while there might be some DPM's that are trying to gain an MD, that does NOT mean that they are total incompetent idiots.. The DPM degree is RARELY degraded anymore by the medical community and general public by those who are informed about the podiatric profession.

Podiatrist go to MEDICAL SCHOOL, granted it is not an "In general" medical school, but one that allows you to specialize early on. IF an MD or DO wanted to have the same exact scope of practice as a DPM he/she would have to complete a residency in Orthopedic Surgery, THEN they would complete a Foot and Ankle fellowship.

Fact is that DPM's complete 4 years of Podiatric Medical School, then minimum 2-3 yrs of residency and thus they are granted the FULL ability to operate, treat (prescribe), and diagnose a patients lower limb illnesses.

DPM's make physician salary's, and they ARE just as much a doctor as an MD or DO with the exeption that DPM's can't treat the entire body, thus they can't take in "general" calls, and can't be consulted for upper limb associated problems Within a hospital..But they do have knowledge in the upper extremities, hence the basic science courses they undergo... They have extensive training in surgery as well, and HAVE EARNED the RIGHT to be called physicians by law (look it up..)

General Orthopedists Usually can't possibly mirror the knowledge that a DPM has about the lower extremities... As a DPM has over 4-5 years (after basic sciences) of CONCENTRATED lower extremity training. DPM's have the ability gain FULL licensure in ALL US states and are recognized outside of the US by many countries.

Here's what on *average a Podiatric Physician (http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_HC07000103.html) makes <--Click

As you can see their salary basically mirrors that of a general practitioner whether MD or DO.. Of course there are some who make way over 300k (I know of some), while statistically there are some who make less than 90k... It all depends.. Obviously the compensation of a Podiatric Surgeon in private practice will be MUCH greater than a non-surgical podiatric physician... Depends...

Podiatrists in MANY hospitals have the right to FULLY manage and treat a patient... If and only when the patient has an illness that pertains to the their lower limb area... Some hospitals even let DPM's admit their own patients! Podiatrist are classified as PHYSICIANS and will continue to strive...

I could go on and on.. Point being is STOP talking nonsense when you have NO IDEA about what your talking about.. The DPM degree is very respected and if you decide to become a podiatric physician then you WILL be making more than enough money in order for you to pay back your educational loans...

Please, just show respect to all aspects of the medical field.. Because it is unethical and childish to WRONGFULLY depict a profession as respected and as needed as podiatry.. Heck TONS of people DON'T even know that Podiatry is separate from MD's, and that they go to a completely different type of medical school.. You might have even gone to one when you were younger and you didn't even have a clue as to what the difference between them and MD's was.. Point No. 2 being is a physician is a physician..period... Much like a surgeon is a surgeon, it doesn't matter if the surgeon only operates on the hand or feet...

GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT! Please, for the sake of other medical professions..

Thank you!

[Newlifedrj]

Yeah and the problem is that MANY of the people who are unhappy with the podiatric profession are the ones who went into the pod field Because they were rejected from allopathic/osteopathic schools and/or because it was fairly easier to get into... Now these people REALIZED they committed a mistake... But the majority of pods that I've met, in which chose podiatry because they enjoyed it, and didn't think about it as a "back up" plan...ARE VERY HAPPY!!

The SAME exact scenario would be, an Osteopathic medical student thats well into his 2 year... starts to HATE it, not because of the studying or because its difficult, but because of the OMM (osteopathic manipulative medicine) or because of the Osteopathic principles and philosophies..

This student ORIGINALLY wanted to become an MD, and even applied to several allopathic schools and was flat out rejected....

NOW with that being said... Who has a better chance of becoming a MORE conformed physician; one that will ultimately enjoy and appreciate his medical education..?

The actual Osteopathic medical student who enjoys Osteopathic medicine and chose that path from the get go... Or the Osteopathic student who dislikes Osteopathic Medicine and hates himself because he chose D.O. over M.D.?????

You tell me....

(This isn't a personal attack on ANYONE)

[drjohnwebb]

Wow! Please Please Please! If you're completely misinformed, if you don't have the correct response, and if you don't know what the heck your talking about; DON'T POST!..Its simple...

Ok I'll bite.. TO clear up this complete misunderstanding; while there might be some DPM's that are trying to gain an MD, that does NOT mean that they are total incompetent idiots.. The DPM degree is RARELY degraded anymore by the medical community and general public by those who are informed about the podiatric profession.
There are many other healthcare professions that DO get the bad end of the stick, like podiatry. However, most MDs don't deal with the feet and are OK with sending their patients to the DPM. Even orthos that don't do feet, will also sent their foot issues out to a DPM.

Podiatrist go to MEDICAL SCHOOL, granted it is not an "In general" medical school, but one that allows you to specialize early on. IF an MD or DO wanted to have the same exact scope of practice as a DPM he/she would have to complete a residency in Orthopedic Surgery, THEN they would complete a Foot and Ankle fellowship.
I think you are playing on words a little. DPMs don't go to "medical school" if they did, they would get a medical degree. They are trained in their limited area, I will agree with that. First off.. a Ortho, even a general could do any surgery in their scope as any DPM. The question comes into their training. DPMs get a conventrated education in the feet, where the ortho learn EVERYTHING.. so it isn't even fair to compare. For a DPM to have the same scope as a ortho.. they would have to start over, do four years of med school, 5 years of residency, etc.

Fact is that DPM's complete 4 years of Podiatric Medical School, then minimum 2-3 yrs of residency and thus they are granted the FULL ability to operate, treat (prescribe), and diagnose a patients lower limb illnesses.
Yet again.. DPMs are limited to a small area of the body. They have very little practical knowledge on ALL the other parts of the body, especially the main areas like.. the brain, lungs, heart, GI and all the physiology, pathology and treatment of these diseases.

DPM's make physician salary's, and they ARE just as much a doctor as an MD or DO with the exeption that DPM's can't treat the entire body, thus they can't take in "general" calls, and can't be consulted for upper limb associated problems Within a hospital..But they do have knowledge in the upper extremities, hence the basic science courses they undergo... They have extensive training in surgery as well, and HAVE EARNED the RIGHT to be called physicians by law (look it up..)
Yes.. you are right.. under medicare guidelines they are listed as "physician", so are chiropractors. However, they are not considered "primary care physicians" Also called point of entry physicians. You have to see how limited a DPM is in scope and education. It is nice to only have to learn ONE area of the body and the limited problems of that area. I think I just want to learn the pinky..

General Orthopedists Usually can't possibly mirror the knowledge that a DPM has about the lower extremities... As a DPM has over 4-5 years (after basic sciences) of CONCENTRATED lower extremity training. DPM's have the ability gain FULL licensure in ALL US states and are recognized outside of the US by many countries.
You are right. As I stated above, DPMs can't even IMAGINE knowing what a general ortho knows about the WHOLE body.
Here's what on *average a Podiatric Physician (http://swz.salary.com/salarywizard/layouthtmls/swzl_compresult_national_HC07000103.html) makes <--Click

As you can see their salary basically mirrors that of a general practitioner whether MD or DO.. Of course there are some who make way over 300k (I know of some), while statistically there are some who make less than 90k... It all depends.. Obviously the compensation of a Podiatric Surgeon in private practice will be MUCH greater than a non-surgical podiatric physician... Depends...
You are saying they are better than orthos, more skilled...but are comparing their salary to that of a primary care doctor. If they are more educated on these areas, why does they salary not reflect that?
Podiatrists in MANY hospitals have the right to FULLY manage and treat a patient... If and only when the patient has an illness that pertains to the their lower limb area... Some hospitals even let DPM's admit their own patients! Podiatrist are classified as PHYSICIANS and will continue to strive...
I love this.. SOME hospitals.. Guess what.. some hospitals let chiropractors admit pts, delivery babies and do minor surgeries. So.. I guess that makes chiros better than DPMs and as good as general MDs, right? NOPE.
They will strive for one reason. That is because it is hard to get into med school, it is even harder to obtain a ortho residency. IF there were more orthos that wanted to do feet, enough to meet the need, DPMs would be out of business. Same with chiro, if PMR docs or DOs performed more spinal manipulation, chiros would be out of business.
I could go on and on.. Point being is STOP talking nonsense when you have NO IDEA about what your talking about.. The DPM degree is very respected and if you decide to become a podiatric physician then you WILL be making more than enough money in order for you to pay back your educational loans...
I will agree with this. One of my best friends is a DPM. He makes a nice living and enjoys what he does. I think the point was, if you want to do ortho type surgery, why limit yourself to one area and why go into a field where the average person make a little over 100K, when you could go into a field (ortho) that makes an average of 300K. Even at 100K, you will pay your loans back and make a good living.

Please, just show respect to all aspects of the medical field.. Because it is unethical and childish to WRONGFULLY depict a profession as respected and as needed as podiatry.. Heck TONS of people DON'T even know that Podiatry is separate from MD's, and that they go to a completely different type of medical school.. You might have even gone to one when you were younger and you didn't even have a clue as to what the difference between them and MD's was.. Point No. 2 being is a physician is a physician..period... Much like a surgeon is a surgeon, it doesn't matter if the surgeon only operates on the hand or feet...
Not true. This point you should revise. A physician is not a physician.. and a surgeon is not a surgeon. If it was, they wouldn't be called podiatrists to clearly show the seperation.
GET YOUR FACTS STRAIGHT! Please, for the sake of other medical professions..

Thank you!

DPMs are needed and they do good work, however.. let's be honest.. they don't have the education of MDs, nor the scope of practice. They are good at what they do and that is the limit of their scope.
You really are trying to compare apples and oranges.

[Newlifedrj]

DPMs are needed and they do good work, however.. let's be honest.. they don't have the education of MDs, nor the scope of practice. They are good at what they do and that is the limit of their scope.
You really are trying to compare apples and oranges.




~There are many other healthcare professions that DO get the bad end of the stick, like podiatry. However, most MDs don't deal with the feet and are OK with sending their patients to the DPM. Even orthos that don't do feet, will also sent their foot issues out to a DPM.

Yes, many times this is the case.

~I think you are playing on words a little. DPMs don't go to "medical school" if they did, they would get a medical degree. They are trained in their limited area, I will agree with that. First off.. a Ortho, even a general could do any surgery in their scope as any DPM. The question comes into their training. DPMs get a conventrated education in the feet, where the ortho learn EVERYTHING.. so it isn't even fair to compare. For a DPM to have the same scope as a ortho.. they would have to start over, do four years of med school, 5 years of residency, etc.

Well I'll have to disagree to a certain extent. DPM's DO obtain a medical degree, hence D.P.M~ Doctor of Podiatric MEDICINE. They are trained in the lower extremities, however they are very knowledgeable about the entire body. Just take a look at the first 2 years of Pod school's curriculum.. Their curriculum practically mirrors that of MD and DO schools. And in some Pod programs the entire first 2 years are FULLY integrated with the schools MD and/or DO program (i.e. take Des Moines University). I stand corrected, reference to "if orthos wanted the same scope of practice". Your correct, something that I managed to overlook is the fact that general Orthos are trained in the ENTIRE body, from head to toe, thus enabling them to have the ability to operate on ANY part of the body at any given time.

DPM's NEED to have exceptional knowledge about the ENTIRE body as well. For example.. What if a DPM is operating and all of a sudden the patient is having a heart attack? The DPM NEEDS to know enough about the heart and the rest of the body in order to assess the situation and come to a conclusion on how to help the patient at THAT moment and time.. Or what if a patient comes in for a F&A consult and the PT brings a couple diagnostic tests with them.. But when the DPM reads them he finds out that the PT has cancer or some type of malignant disease that has NOTHING to do with the lower extremities... How do you suppose the DPM knew how to read those tests and realize that the PT had an illness?? Sheer luck?? No!

DPM's can administer most if not all drugs; your a doctor (I assume) so you know that when you administer X drug, that drug even though its meant for X illness within a specific area of the body, it has the ability to affect the ENTIRE body and can cause complications througout the entire body... SO if a DPM has to administer X drug meant for the foot, what happens if that drug meant for that specific area of the body, meant for that specific patient killed the patient when administered, because the patient had an illness that when it interacted with that specific drug it had caused the patients fatality for whatever reason... Then what? How can a DPM avoid such problems? By having exceptional knowledge about the ENTIRE body.

~Yet again.. DPMs are limited to a small area of the body. They have very little practical knowledge on ALL the other parts of the body, especially the main areas like.. the brain, lungs, heart, GI and all the physiology, pathology and treatment of these diseases.

I responded to this above....

~Yes.. you are right.. under medicare guidelines they are listed as "physician", so are chiropractors. However, they are not considered "primary care physicians" Also called point of entry physicians. You have to see how limited a DPM is in scope and education. It is nice to only have to learn ONE area of the body and the limited problems of that area. I think I just want to learn the pinky..

Thats not the case, as I stated above DPM's NEED to have knowledge about the ENTIRE body... Just ask your DPM friend.. Have a conversation with him about the brain, lungs, and any other major organ, and see what he says... your probably going to be surprised as to how much knowledge a DPM can have about the ENTIRE body...

~You are right. As I stated above, DPMs can't even IMAGINE knowing what a general ortho knows about the WHOLE body.
Yeah because Orthos have EXTENSIVE consecutive training of the ENTIRE body...

~You are saying they are better than orthos, more skilled...but are comparing their salary to that of a primary care doctor. If they are more educated on these areas, why does they salary not reflect that?
DPM's are more skilled than Orthos in the lower extremity, BUT to a certain extent.... Of course you can't argue that 3 years residency followed by an opted 2 years of F&A fellowship in concentrated training of the lower extremity trumps an Orthos 5 years of "In General" training of the entire body.. Thats just common sense.. In MANNY states and countries DPM's even if in private practice make less than Orthos, BUT only due to their compensation, which is controlled by insurance companies... Basically its the insurance companies fault... SOME (not all) insurance companies pay considerably less amount of money to DPM's and more to Orthos for the SAME exact procedure... Of course thats in private practice, however as I've already stated a DPM can easily if in private practice make double what an Ortho can.....

NOW, in hospitals its a different story... One of the many reasons why DPM's make less than Orthos is because DPM's CAN'T take general calls.. As where an Orthopedists can take ANY type of "In general" call... And you have to understand that DPM's are "limited" to the lower extremities, however Orthos even if they complete a fellowship in F&A aren't, they can still operate on the entire body, but its just that they would have extensive training in the Foot & Ankle..

~I love this.. SOME hospitals.. Guess what.. some hospitals let chiropractors admit pts, delivery babies and do minor surgeries. So.. I guess that makes chiros better than DPMs and as good as general MDs, right? NOPE.
They will strive for one reason. That is because it is hard to get into med school, it is even harder to obtain a ortho residency. IF there were more orthos that wanted to do feet, enough to meet the need, DPMs would be out of business. Same with chiro, if PMR docs or DOs performed more spinal manipulation, chiros would be out of business.

Yeah but happens if a Chiro gets sued? You can't compare Chiros to Pods in ANY way! Chiros CAN'T prescribe and CAN'T perform complicated surgeries.. If Chiros can perform surgeries, I can guarantee you that it will be VERY minor invasive surgeries.... But I didn't know that some hospitals allowed this.... Yeah your right, but USUALLY an Ortho which has extensive knowledge of the entire body (as stated by you) and has the ability to operate on the ENTIRE body, would not want to be STUCK with the only the lower extremity.. Think about it... And put yourself in an Orthos shoes.. SO yeah.. Um.. I don't see this happening ANYTIME soon...

~I will agree with this. One of my best friends is a DPM. He makes a nice living and enjoys what he does. I think the point was, if you want to do ortho type surgery, why limit yourself to one area and why go into a field where the average person make a little over 100K, when you could go into a field (ortho) that makes an average of 300K. Even at 100K, you will pay your loans back and make a good living.

Why? Because maybe this person actually enjoys the lower extremity and DOESN'T care about having the privilege to operate and treat the ENTIRE body... I've personally met DPM's who NEVER even considered MD or DO school.. They went straight into the pod profession... If a pod (as I've already stated) goes into private practice, he/she can make well over 300k a year.. Of course after some hard work.... Its definitely possible, and I know of many DPM's private practice that make well over the 100k mark...If one day hospitals decide to compensate DPM's just as much as Orthos, then nobody would protest.. Because they would see the pod profession as "needed". Its the employers, private groups, and hospitals that have set the standard and average salary of a DPM to be a little higher than that of a primary docs...

~Not true. This point you should revise. A physician is not a physician.. and a surgeon is not a surgeon. If it was, they wouldn't be called podiatrists to clearly show the seperation.

Yup! Your correct! My apologies... A physician isn't a physicain and no matter what.. Thats like saying a Doctor is a Doctor.... But a surgeon has the right to be called a surgeon no matter what their specialty is... But thats why you would say Neurosurgeon, Orthopedic Surgeon, Carido-Thoracic Surgeon..etc... BUT you can't call a podiatrist a surgeon! SIMPLY BECAUSE NOT ALL podiatrist ARE surgeons... In fact there exist many pods that have NEVER and WILL never touch a scalpel.. Thats because there actually exists residencies (which will cease to exist as of 2008) that are 2 years and don't have anything to do with surgery, but instead with sports medicine, pediatrics and family medicine... So the correct terminology's Podiatric Surgeon...

Ehh, but many times who even cares what you call this and what you call that, as long as you correctly identify yourself and scope of practice.. I was just trying to elaborate on why a surgeon is a surgeon...IMO..Of course..



BTW.. this isn't a personal attack on you.... SO please don't get offended.... I may be incorrect in some of my thinking, but I wouldn't be the only one that certainly thinks like this....;)

[GeorgeMD2B]

Podiatry is a dying profession in the USA, there are opportunities in the UK and Australia, where they are considered Allied Health professionals, but most people who have gone to Podiatry school wound up working in some backwater in order to tread water.

Caribbean MD vs. Pod, its two different things, the only thing linking the two is that US MD school rejects often apply to both. Caribbean schools have high dropout and mediocre USMLE pass rates, so that is a gamble too.

[drjohnwebb]

I appreciate your defending of the pod profession... Most non-MDs have to do this. It will be a life-long struggle, no matter how well trained you are or what your scope is. Our society, and most in the world, respect the MD.. all others in healthcare are for the most part, considered on a lesser scale. Most people know MDs can do what chiros do, if they wanted, cand do what physical therapists do, if they wanted, can do what DPMs can do.. if they wanted.. etc. etc.. Medicine has even taken over accupuncture now and even dosing vitamins.. that is almost ironic, since they talked against these things for years.
Medicine learned a long time ago that they had a lot of power. Medicine can integrate almost any healthcare area and overtake it, if they choose to.

Good luck with the podiatry.. I know they do good work, but I hate to say it.. to be honest.. they will not get the respect they want, now.. or ever.

I guess dentists get a "medical" degree and so do Vets.. since it says medicine in their degree name.. some chiro schools give out the "doctor of chiropractic medicine" degree.. so I guess everyone is the same.. everyone gets a "medical degree". That is why most states have laws.. that say if you are NOT a MD, you MUST state in your business cards, signs, advertisments, etc.. what type of "Dr" you are. That way people won't come to you and mistaken you for a medical doctor.
You must also know by now.. that Medical schools will (for the most part) NOT take DPM credits towards transfer credit, but WILL take dentists. You know.. they can do surgery, prescribe drugs and all that jazz too.. but I wouldn't go to him if my side was hurting and I thought I had a serious issue. I wouldn't even go to them if I a problem with my mouth.. I would go to the MD, oral surgeon.. I go to the dentist so he can clean my teeth.. I mean.. so his hygienist can clean my teeth and so he can come in and say.. ok.. everything looks good... now give me $150.
Same with the DPM, why would I not just go to a ortho that does foot and ankle, unless there isn't one near me and the only person to see about a bunion is a DPM. I would go to the DPM first, if I didn't have insurance.. but if I did, I would go to the ortho. DPMs are like Dollar General.. they open in small towns where there is no Wal-mart to compete with. They get business by default.

I know you think the DPM and MD curriculum is the same.. it isn't.. trust me. It is hard.. but it is not as in depth as the MD. I have friends who have gone through other healthcare school and I myself have been in other healthcare school. Do you study the same subjects?.. yes.. But you get an overview in other schools and have to learn it in depth in med school.
Your rationale of the DPM knowing about the whole body would be like me saying a family doctor knows the foot, so while seeing a patient for heart disease.. he can also fix a toe problem. He knows about the foot, right? Just because a person "knows" about that area, to a limited extent, doesn't mean they can actually perform adequate care to that area.

Good luck

[GeorgeMD2B]

MD schools take credit from Dental students because some Dentists want to become oral surgeons so they need an MD. Actually some medical schools do allow Podiatry students to enter their programs as advanced standing. There are some DPMs who have went to DO schools after finishing their degree.

[Newlifedrj]

I appreciate your defending of the pod profession... Most non-MDs have to do this. It will be a life-long struggle, no matter how well trained you are or what your scope is. Our society, and most in the world, respect the MD.. all others in healthcare are for the most part, considered on a lesser scale. Most people know MDs can do what chiros do, if they wanted, cand do what physical therapists do, if they wanted, can do what DPMs can do.. if they wanted.. etc. etc.. Medicine has even taken over accupuncture now and even dosing vitamins.. that is almost ironic, since they talked against these things for years.
Medicine learned a long time ago that they had a lot of power. Medicine can integrate almost any healthcare area and overtake it, if they choose to.

Good luck with the podiatry.. I know they do good work, but I hate to say it.. to be honest.. they will not get the respect they want, now.. or ever.

I guess dentists get a "medical" degree and so do Vets.. since it says medicine in their degree name.. some chiro schools give out the "doctor of chiropractic medicine" degree.. so I guess everyone is the same.. everyone gets a "medical degree". That is why most states have laws.. that say if you are NOT a MD, you MUST state in your business cards, signs, advertisments, etc.. what type of "Dr" you are. That way people won't come to you and mistaken you for a medical doctor.
You must also know by now.. that Medical schools will (for the most part) NOT take DPM credits towards transfer credit, but WILL take dentists. You know.. they can do surgery, prescribe drugs and all that jazz too.. but I wouldn't go to him if my side was hurting and I thought I had a serious issue. I wouldn't even go to them if I a problem with my mouth.. I would go to the MD, oral surgeon.. I go to the dentist so he can clean my teeth.. I mean.. so his hygienist can clean my teeth and so he can come in and say.. ok.. everything looks good... now give me $150.
Same with the DPM, why would I not just go to a ortho that does foot and ankle, unless there isn't one near me and the only person to see about a bunion is a DPM. I would go to the DPM first, if I didn't have insurance.. but if I did, I would go to the ortho. DPMs are like Dollar General.. they open in small towns where there is no Wal-mart to compete with. They get business by default.

I know you think the DPM and MD curriculum is the same.. it isn't.. trust me. It is hard.. but it is not as in depth as the MD. I have friends who have gone through other healthcare school and I myself have been in other healthcare school. Do you study the same subjects?.. yes.. But you get an overview in other schools and have to learn it in depth in med school.
Your rationale of the DPM knowing about the whole body would be like me saying a family doctor knows the foot, so while seeing a patient for heart disease.. he can also fix a toe problem. He knows about the foot, right? Just because a person "knows" about that area, to a limited extent, doesn't mean they can actually perform adequate care to that area.

Good luck

Yes, podiatrist don't have the "in-depth" knowledge that MD or DO's have.. But the point I was trying to get across was that they do have knowledge of the entire body, even if it is limited. I guess some DPM's receive better training of the entire body, because if ALL of the DPM curriculum wasn't as "In-Depth" as MD or DO schools, then why would a medical school like Des Moines University have their D.O. students take the exact same classes as the D.P.M. students (with the exception of OMM) for the first two years? A D.O.'s curriculum needs to mirror that of an M.D.'s curriculum, thus at a school like Des Moines, D.P.M.'s receive the same training of the entire body as D.O.'s, which in fact is the same curriculum as an M.D.'s, with the exception of some extra Foot & Ankle/lower limb classes....

But of course AFTER the first 2 years, D.P.M.'s don't go as in depth into the entire body as M.D.'s or D.O.'s do... But thats after the first 2 years... Therefore, I would NEVER go to a DPM for a general problem that has nothing to do with the F&A... It's just unethical and stupid....

As of now I don't want to pursue podiatry.... But it is an option... Because I actually like podiatry for various reasons... BUT I want to get my M.D. thus I'm going to medical school and I'm going to pursue my "medical degree", but as of now I don't believe I want to specialize in orthopedics or anything of that nature....

Good Luck to you too...

[Newlifedrj]

MD schools take credit from Dental students because some Dentists want to become oral surgeons so they need an MD. Actually some medical schools do allow Podiatry students to enter their programs as advanced standing. There are some DPMs who have went to DO schools after finishing their degree.

Where in the world did you hear this?? To become an oral surgeon dental students have to apply for a residency in an accredited American Dental Association program within a hospital.... But in order to make it into one of these residency's, the students need to be at least in the top 10 of their class and have exceptional grades, because as you can imagine it is EXTREMELY competitive.

They apply, they get accepted, they complete residency, and thus they're enabled to perform oral surgery... I think the residencies are about 1-3 years in length...

I mean think about it, why would a dentist need an MD, if ALL they are doing is operating in their scope of practice? If they were to pursue an MD then they would HAVE to rotate in all these irrelevant medical fields that are limited or have little to do with the mouth, i.e. like OB/GYN, Urology, Dermatology...etc and the list keeps going... An M.D. usually can't regurgitate the knowledge a dentist/cosmetic surgeon/oral surgeon etc.. has about the teeth, it's just once again common sense....

But most schools do actually allow you to transfer most if not all credits from your previous institution... Most of the time, it depends on the school and its policies...Because some professional schools will not allow you to transfer over 40-50% of the needed curriculum to complete a degree at their school....

If I am mistaken in any of this, please proceed to correct me...:)

[teratos]

ISame with the DPM, why would I not just go to a ortho that does foot and ankle, unless there isn't one near me and the only person to see about a bunion is a DPM. I would go to the DPM first, if I didn't have insurance.. but if I did, I would go to the ortho. DPMs are like Dollar General.. they open in small towns where there is no Wal-mart to compete with. They get business by default.



I dunno, the pods who do a foot and ankle fellowship are probably the best guys to go to. That's all they do, as opposed to the ortho who does mostly knees, hips and shoulders.....

[fmagarbage]

I applied and was accepted to every pod school last year but I will be going to med school in the caribbean next year. I'll admit that the anti-podiatry sites scared me but the final straw was shadowing a fairly successful pod who told me to turn away and run as far as possible.

[Aviv Imanuel]

Just think about it, the more podiatrists out there, the more competition he faces, the less dough he gets, simple economics.;)


I applied and was accepted to every pod school last year but I will be going to med school in the caribbean next year. I'll admit that the anti-podiatry sites scared me but the final straw was shadowing a fairly successful pod who told me to turn away and run as far as possible.

[WannaBdoc25]

this is a very informative thread. Are carribean med schools really looked down upon that much, even a school as well known as SGU.

[Aviv Imanuel]

Depends, some states still do, other don't. It varies. my opinion, if you graduated, passed the boards and did residency with positive recommendations, then there is no difference.


this is a very informative thread. Are carribean med schools really looked down upon that much, even a school as well known as SGU.

[Moldovanits]

quite frankly its not wheter you like feet or not. its still a body part isnt it?pods are like any doctors. they just specialize in feet and want to help people isnt that the whole point of being a physician? or is it all about prestige and having a badge with a few letters next to your name. who cares if you get looked down upon. i know very succesful Dpm's who work with MD's and they get along just great.