"you want to succeed not just survive"

[ZAATARI]

The future on international graduates in the USA changing,this country [in many areas]still have physician shortage and in need of competent expertise.2005 will have major changes including more well identified regulations made specifically for international schools that targets US citizens.Its been always the responsibility of any government to assure high quality education provided in their country,however few tiny Islands in need of any additional income in addition to tourism are not establishing high standards for their schools therefore some in the US feels passing exams and completing residencies obviously not good enough.In my expert opinion as a student who was a student then a faculty,clinician,researcher,and sat on many committes that reviews standards of medical education I believe many schools in the carribean exceeds the quality in many other schools I reviewed,however many others[many new ones] appearing everyday with handfull of students and faculties with minimum investments and do we blame the US when they wanted to take closer look at this?the answer is no.
As Spartan alumni I can speak from an alumni prospective,yes there are so many grads who are not fit to be physicians [like in many other schools] there are so many alumni who did very well,I personally know classmates who did residencies at Harvard[2 that I know],Columbia,Georgetown,George Washington,Yale,Brown,Vanderbilt,Case Western,Baylor,Mayo,to name few.My point: you simply can't make it in such top US institutions if you lack the basic sciences.I personally attended 2 events in one of the most elite areas in the US [ palm beach county,Florida] that honored 2 Spartan alumnus[one at the breaker hotel in the Fall of 2001 and the other in the Spring of 2004 at the Marriott hotel for best resident in the state & best physician in the hospital,only 30 miles south another alumni won best healthcare executive in the entire USA.
However,all of that simply not good enough if no changes takes place soon,I believe Spartan facilities more than adquate for 140 basic sciences students[if you have 2000 students you need huge campus,if you have 200 students you need small campus],the faculties probably are good hard working but that is not what the US reviewers wants to see,they want to see Dr x who was professor at Univ of MI for example or head of dept in X univ in the US,also the want to see close monitoring and tight affiliation with the students doing clinicals in the USA,Spartan has so manty positives but sadly those positives hidden behind the very few negatives.Today no school can escape pursuing state approvals for its long term survival.Spartan can and will do it with minimum efforts.

[shockandawe]

The future on international graduates in the USA changing,this country [in many areas]still have physician shortage and in need of competent expertise.2005 will have major changes including more well identified regulations made specifically for international schools that targets US citizens.Its been always the responsibility of any government to assure high quality education provided in their country,however few tiny Islands in need of any additional income in addition to tourism are not establishing high standards for their schools therefore some in the US feels passing exams and completing residencies obviously not good enough.In my expert opinion as a student who was a student then a faculty,clinician,researcher,and sat on many committes that reviews standards of medical education I believe many schools in the carribean exceeds the quality in many other schools I reviewed,however many others[many new ones] appearing everyday with handfull of students and faculties with minimum investments and do we blame the US when they wanted to take closer look at this?the answer is no.
As Spartan alumni I can speak from an alumni prospective,yes there are so many grads who are not fit to be physicians [like in many other schools] there are so many alumni who did very well,I personally know classmates who did residencies at Harvard[2 that I know],Columbia,Georgetown,George Washington,Yale,Brown,Vanderbilt,Case Western,Baylor,Mayo,to name few.My point: you simply can't make it in such top US institutions if you lack the basic sciences.I personally attended 2 events in one of the most elite areas in the US [ palm beach county,Florida] that honored 2 Spartan alumnus[one at the breaker hotel in the Fall of 2001 and the other in the Spring of 2004 at the Marriott hotel for best resident in the state & best physician in the hospital,only 30 miles south another alumni won best healthcare executive in the entire USA.
However,all of that simply not good enough if no changes takes place soon,I believe Spartan facilities more than adquate for 140 basic sciences students[if you have 2000 students you need huge campus,if you have 200 students you need small campus],the faculties probably are good hard working but that is not what the US reviewers wants to see,they want to see Dr x who was professor at Univ of MI for example or head of dept in X univ in the US,also the want to see close monitoring and tight affiliation with the students doing clinicals in the USA,Spartan has so manty positives but sadly those positives hidden behind the very few negatives.Today no school can escape pursuing state approvals for its long term survival.Spartan can and will do it with minimum efforts.


ZAATARI, thank God that you join us in this forum... Very well written.. I wish ****** and the rest of the minimum effort, reckless squad would only listen.. They are in denial. Don't they know that they are risking their own careers?? We have to be ahead of what the boards want, not centuries behind them... The philosophy at Spartan is "Do the absolute minimum." This is a very lazy and reckless attitude.. Most of our problems stem from our administrations' laziness... -s&a

[ZAATARI]

For owners of all the carribean schools just remember:
ITS SO EASY TO LOSE THINGS BUT ALMOST IMPOSSIBLE TO REGAIN IT BACK...
Good luck with the next fight[the federation match]
and If we do not go to states asking for approvals now they are comming to us,we can run but we can't hide forever.

[wolfvgang22]

It seems obvious that Spartan admin don't care what anybody here thinks, since this has all been posted before. I think maybe you are just talking to the vast emptiness of space when you give advice to Spartan admin to get their ducks in a row, don't you think?

Zaatari, do you recommend Spartan to prospective students in light of the problems you mentioned above?
Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash Spartan, but when it's alumni and current students are pointing out what they think are glaring deficiencies with their school, I tend to put it on my list of places not to touch with a ten-foot pole.

If what you say about Spartan "doing the minimum" is true, I would eschew Spartan for another school, since I would like to think that a school is doing the best it can to help me achieve my goals as a student.

It seems in the main that you were satisfied with your education, but are afraid Spartan is going to go the way of the dinosaur because of it's administrative incompentence. Not a good scenario.

[shockandawe]

It seems obvious that Spartan admin don't care what anybody here thinks, since this has all been posted before. I think maybe you are just talking to the vast emptiness of space when you give advice to Spartan admin to get their ducks in a row, don't you think?

We are talking to the vast emptiness of space, wolf, but we cannot help it... I hope you will understand...


Zaatari, do you recommend Spartan to prospective students in light of the problems you mentioned above?

I do not know what ZAATARI thinks, but for many students Spartan is the ONLY choice and this is mostly due to cost.. I would definitely recommend Saba before Spartan. Especially, after their recent CA approval.


Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to bash Spartan, but when it's alumni and current students are pointing out what they think are glaring deficiencies with their school, I tend to put it on my list of places not to touch with a ten-foot pole.

Wolf, very interestingly, I was mentioning this to a friend recently that although we (Spartan students and alumni) complain more than any single group or other school in the carib, I do not, personally, know of one single student that transfered out or dropped out of Spartan to another carib. school. I am not saying that it didn't happen, I know that it has happened before, probably even a couple of people from this forum, but what I am saying is that in my class, the class before and after my class, we all complained like crazy and we all stayed. And, at least 50% of our classes were made up of transfers from other schools, such as Ross, AUC, Saba, etc.. Mostly due to lower cost of education or because they had fluncked out or because of clinical rotation opportunities. This is not so much of a problem for students from Saba but people from Ross, AUC and others did not want to be stuck doing rotations in England.

If what you say about Spartan "doing the minimum" is true, I would eschew Spartan for another school, since I would like to think that a school is doing the best it can to help me achieve my goals as a student.

Agreed. But ask the Physician of the Year, researcher, sub-specialist, 8 different state licensed, physician to a Royal family Dr. ZAATARI if he has achieved his goals or not??? I'll leave it to ZAATARI to tell you about his classmates and what kinds of goals they have achieved...


It seems in the main that you were satisfied with your education, but are afraid Spartan is going to go the way of the dinosaur because of it's administrative incompentence. Not a good scenario.

Exactly.. -s&a

[anotherstudent]

well it's nice to see people are finally posting and realizing publicly the root of spartan's problems. i really do believe that the few improvements this micromanaging incompetant administrator has done was due to the heat and mass exposure on this forum. i don't think spartan is a bad school, i just think it's ran by an idiot who used to come on this forum pretending to be a student...LOl.. the current students won't be able to change the weak decisions of santa teresa, because they already have your money. it's the potential students that have this power. as numbers decrease and money is getting scarce then only, will admin will change their habits. eventually they will get it and start being more competative with comparable schools.

[ZAATARI]

Wolf
I finished Spartan in 85 and I am not in a position to recommend or not to recommend Spartan because my input will be silly being a graduate 19 yrs ago,I came to this forum after I read the CT article and found so many misleading info like SGU/Spartan/AUC banned in Idaho[very redeculious allegations] as well as inability to practice in St Lucia when the prime minister's office flatly denied this allegations,in addition of isults to the great citizens of Vieux Fort,also of what I read the new building was almost completed at the time of the alleged CT journalist visit but he hid such info from the public calling Spartan a school of 4 classrooms,I like to give simple example:I attended premed in Univ of 30.000 students 100 buildings very fancy huge campus,friend of mine sent his kid to premed school of 1500 total students very few buildings[Davidson College],which you think is better?well Davidson College is top 10 colleges in the USA and completing premed there almost guarantees med school admissions.
You might consider me unrealistic but truly I always thought Spartan was the best because if you finish only 3 yrs and pass the ECFMG one yr before even my graduation[6 Spartan students took it in Cleveland ,6 passed with me ],then matched first choice,first time,finished residency,fellowship in the top 9 med school in USA,....& I look at my classmates who made it to the 8 out of ten top med schools in the USA places such as Harvard[radiology residency,Anesth. residency],Washington in MO,[heme/onco],Brown[too many alumni to count],Columbia[pshciatry],Baylor[Psych,and faculty now],George Washington[Internship],Georgetown[peds endo],Yale[Neurology,Cardiology],Boston[director FM],Mayo[FM],Cornell/Weill college,and Vanderbily[neonatologist & pediatrician] so what are you suppose to think all of those successful people are there by luck!
I must also admit that things are different these days because there are sooooooo many new schools that lack the minimum standards and things are more difficult now with NY,NJ,FL requesting approvals,the importance of CA approvals since few states considering CA assessments as to approve/not to approve schools,the committe formed by the FSMB in response to the CT article concerns,......etc,so things are not as easy as before and I believe only handfull of the carribean schools will survive in thelong term ,which ones?I truly do not know.
good luck

[wolfvgang22]

Thanks Zaatari, for your detailed response. 8)

[ZAATARI]

your welcome wolf,I just want to share info and help others in the areas related to alumni issues[license experiences,hosp privileges requirements...] and pass on the message I been hearing lately from reliable sources telling me "the reputation of any carribean school will depand on if its CA approved or not"so everyone can be ready.

[Scott1981]

shockandawe,

i think you are TOTALLY misinformed!!!!!!!!!!
you claim that the spartan students hold the crown for complaining?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

go and visit the ROSS forum. now thats complaining!!!! :P

[shockandawe]

shockandawe,

i think you are TOTALLY misinformed!!!!!!!!!!
you claim that the spartan students hold the crown for complaining?

:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

go and visit the ROSS forum. now thats complaining!!!! :P


Hee, hee, hee... Fair enough.. :D

[IMG X-Files]

EXPENSIVE FOR THE VALUE !
SPARTAM IS NOT ON MY LIST OF RECOMMENDED SCHOOLS !

FOR MANY REASONS:
1. QUALITY OF EDUCATION, RANKED POOR !
2. RECOGNITION
3. # RESIDENTS
4. USMLE PASSING RATE
5. POOR FACILITY

http://www.stluciastar.com/weekend/dec19-03/feature.htm

YOU CAN GET AN IMAGE OF THE SCHOOL BY ASKING THE SCHOOL TO EMAIL YOU SOME PHOTOS OF THE FACILITY !!

REGARDS,