Spartan State licensures and Viabilty...

[shockandawe]

Recently, I have had a significant amount of private messages about states licensure. Some of you guys have been asking about whether what is going on with the carib schools is really serious stuff or whether some of us are just over-worried about an old problem.

As most of you already know, I have been and continue to be pretty positive about Spartan, a school of which I am an alumni. In my own career, I am fortunate to be where I am today and I have to attribute it to the school for giving me the opportunity. This school offers affordable tuition, a nice island to study medicine, good clinical rotations for those who do well on their boards. It has been this way since the beginning.

But unfortunately, the administration really sucks!!! They do not listen nor care nor even have any shred of understanding, what-so-ever.. That also has been this way since the beginning.

But the times are chang'in... Those old days, of not caring about what other people and reporters and state boards thought of your school are gone.. Mainly due to the fact that now we have the internet and everyone is talking about Spartan and the rest of the carib., everything is easily accessible... Not to mention that it isn't just about Spartan and the big 3 anymore, because now their a loads of competing off-shore medical schools..

An article can easily be passed across that internet and many people with internet educations, such as my friend, the AZkeptic, , will believe almost everything that they read on the internet.


Without their administration, which goes out of their way to do a good job, Saba really isn't better than Spartan. Their campus isn't as nice, their facilities are nothing to brag about, their island is not a good place to live, their professors are students too, at the same school, at the same time, etc, etc... If it weren't for the fact that one of the Courant writers was a Spartan drop-out, that article might have been written about Saba or St. Mathews with their plastic cadavers...

What is the main difference in regard to viablity? They have good PR and good administrations that not only listen to the state boards but also they listen to their students... And thus they have NY and FL and Saba now has CA and this is really wonderful for them.

So to someone like the Az, who only looks at advertisements, he is looking at a Tercel, a Corolla and a Camry and because the Camry doesn't have a good website, he thinks the Tercel is a better car...

I believe that Spartan's lack of action, in regard to state boards, might turn out to be a huge and very reckless mistake because a lot of people have the same Az mentality, including state boards...

Spartan should be getting state to state licensures, otherwise, their viabilty will be at risk... They should know that their actions are being watched very closely and it really doesn't matter whether they have a bigger or better campus, if they do not comply and get state to state licensures across the board, it will be GAME OVER... -s&a

[azskeptic]

Recently, I have had a significant amount of private messages about states licensure. Some of you guys have been asking about whether what is going on with the carib schools is really serious stuff or whether some of us are just over-worried about an old problem.

As most of you already know, I have been and continue to be pretty positive about Spartan, a school of which I am an alumni. In my own career, I am fortunate to be where I am today and I have to attribute it to the school for giving me the opportunity. This school offers affordable tuition, a nice island to study medicine, good clinical rotations for those who do well on their boards. It has been this way since the beginning.

But unfortunately, the administration really sucks!!! They do not listen nor care nor even have any shred of understanding, what-so-ever.. That also has been this way since the beginning.

But the times are chang'in... Those old days, of not caring about what other people and reporters and state boards thought of your school are gone.. Mainly due to the fact that now we have the internet and everyone is talking about Spartan and the rest of the carib., everything is easily accessible... Not to mention that it isn't just about Spartan and the big 3 anymore, because now their a loads of competing off-shore medical schools..

An article can easily be passed across that internet and many people with internet educations, such as my friend, the AZkeptic, , will believe almost everything that they read on the internet.


Without their administration, which goes out of their way to do a good job, Saba really isn't better than Spartan. Their campus isn't as nice, their facilities are nothing to brag about, their island is not a good place to live, their professors are students too, at the same school, at the same time, etc, etc... If it weren't for the fact that one of the Courant writers was a Spartan drop-out, that article might have been written about Saba or St. Mathews with their plastic cadavers...

What is the main difference in regard to viablity? They have good PR and good administrations that not only listen to the state boards but also they listen to their students... And thus they have NY and FL and Saba now has CA and this is really wonderful for them.

So to someone like the Az, who only looks at advertisements, he is looking at a Tercel, a Corolla and a Camry and because the Camry doesn't have a good website, he thinks the Tercel is a better car...

I believe that Spartan's lack of action, in regard to state boards, might turn out to be a huge and very reckless mistake because a lot of people have the same Az mentality, including state boards...

Spartan should be getting state to state licensures, otherwise, their viabilty will be at risk... They should know that their actions are being watched very closely and it really doesn't matter whether they have a bigger or better campus, if they do not comply and get state to state licensures across the board, it will be GAME OVER... -s&a

Show proof that one of the writers went to Spartan and I'll help you write a complaint to the ombudsmen for the newspaper.

[ZAATARI]

I believe that Spartan should have acted in 2 issues in the past,such 2 issues might effect its future:multimillion dollar lawsuite against the CT newspaper on the basis of material misrepresentation[they mentioned 4 classrooms when they just completed another building across the main building,they say banned in NM when so many alumni licensed in NM and if you have residency then its ok,,ability to practice in St Lucia and so on,,] that directly caused current and future damage to school,students,residents,and alumni ,now any doctor from Spartan applying for a job or residency,the employer will type on the internet"Spartan health sciences univ"they get "suspect MD'S"banned school".....that have effected hundreds of innocent alumni and students unfairly.the second issue is CA inspection must be done[prepare well before the site visit]this issue will not go away because 99.8% of schools are approved so not too many schools are interested fighting this issue,its cheaper to follow CA requirements.

[dt]

You both seem to be mellowing out. I guess that always comes with time.

(I just dropped in to see how things are coming along with Spartan. :) )

[shockandawe]

I believe that Spartan should have acted in 2 issues in the past,such 2 issues might effect its future:multimillion dollar lawsuite against the CT newspaper on the basis of material misrepresentation[they mentioned 4 classrooms when they just completed another building across the main building,they say banned in NM when so many alumni licensed in NM and if you have residency then its ok,,ability to practice in St Lucia and so on,,] that directly caused current and future damage to school,students,residents,and alumni ,now any doctor from Spartan applying for a job or residency,the employer will type on the internet"Spartan health sciences univ"they get "suspect MD'S"banned school".....that have effected hundreds of innocent alumni and students unfairly.the second issue is CA inspection must be done[prepare well before the site visit]this issue will not go away because 99.8% of schools are approved so not too many schools are interested fighting this issue,its cheaper to follow CA requirements.


ZAATARI,

I wish I could tatoo this last statement of yours, on the forehead of the president or vice presdient or whoever is running the show at Spartan, so that he could see your statement each and every day...

Many great things have happened over the past year for Spartan such as the new campus, the Prime Minister's visit, the expansions, etc,.. but none of these things can counter the damage inflicted by the Courant and their drop-out writers...

What Spartan needs to do from here:

1- Hire a USA medical school dean to re-organize the entire admisinstration.

2- Get a PR person

3- Hire some new USA professors and get rid of the bad ones.

4- Continue forward with the expansions.

5- Start accepting student evaluations of and about the program.

6- Start an alumni club

7- Apply for state approval, starting with big states NY, FL and CA.

8- Bring a representative into this forum to answer students questions.

9- Hire someone to improve and upgrade the Spartan website.

10- I'm sorry for saying this but probably the best way to start is by getting rid of or demoting Dr. ******. I believe that he is one of the biggest barriers to Spartan's success... Or at least, sell the shool, otherwise, the damage could be irreversible...

-s&a

[dt]

ZAATARI,

I wish I could tatoo this last statement of yours, on the forehead of the president or vice presdient or whoever is running the show at Spartan, so that he could see your statement each and every day...

Many great things have happened over the past year for Spartan such as the new campus, the Prime Minister's visit, the expansions, etc,.. but none of these things can counter the damage inflicted by the Courant and their drop-out writers...

What Spartan needs to do from here:

1- Hire a USA medical school dean to re-organize the entire admisinstration.

2- Get a PR person

3- Hire some new USA professors and get rid of the bad ones.

4- Continue forward with the expansions.

5- Start accepting student evaluations of and about the program.

6- Start an alumni club

7- Apply for state approval, starting with big states NY, FL and CA.

8- Bring a representative into this forum to answer students questions.

9- Hire someone to improve and upgrade the Spartan website.

10- I'm sorry for saying this but probably the best way to start is by getting rid of or demoting Dr. ******. I believe that he is one of the biggest barriers to Spartan's success... Or at least, sell the shool, otherwise, the damage could be irreversible...

-s&a


Well thought out. Agreed.


Either azskeptic and/or I would apply for the key positions...

[azskeptic]

ZAATARI,

I wish I could tatoo this last statement of yours, on the forehead of the president or vice presdient or whoever is running the show at Spartan, so that he could see your statement each and every day...

Many great things have happened over the past year for Spartan such as the new campus, the Prime Minister's visit, the expansions, etc,.. but none of these things can counter the damage inflicted by the Courant and their drop-out writers...

What Spartan needs to do from here:

1- Hire a USA medical school dean to re-organize the entire admisinstration.

2- Get a PR person

3- Hire some new USA professors and get rid of the bad ones.

4- Continue forward with the expansions.

5- Start accepting student evaluations of and about the program.

6- Start an alumni club

7- Apply for state approval, starting with big states NY, FL and CA.

8- Bring a representative into this forum to answer students questions.

9- Hire someone to improve and upgrade the Spartan website.

10- I'm sorry for saying this but probably the best way to start is by getting rid of or demoting Dr. ******. I believe that he is one of the biggest barriers to Spartan's success... Or at least, sell the shool, otherwise, the damage could be irreversible...

-s&a


Well thought out. Agreed.


Either azskeptic and/or I would apply for the key positions...

DT, it would take both of us and perhaps Dr. George also to handle. Where do we sign?

[azskeptic]

A word to the wise is infuriating.
--Hunter S. Thompson

[shockandawe]

I think that it would be a good job for the Az, it would open his mind a little and make him more understanding... And I bet that, the Az, would actually do a good job... -s&a

[Scott1981]

shockandawe,

i think you need to get your facts straight about saba and smu.
plastic cadavers, professors as students....... where did you pull that garbage from?

just because there are many questions surrounding your school doesnt make it ok to throw out baseless and complete lies about other schools.

[microphage]

You both seem to be mellowing out. I guess that always comes with time.

(I just dropped in to see how things are coming along with Spartan. :) )

Dude, did you just disappear from the face of the earth or something? It's been lonely here without ya... (not really but just to make you feel better)

[azskeptic]

You both seem to be mellowing out. I guess that always comes with time.

(I just dropped in to see how things are coming along with Spartan. :) )

Dude, did you just disappear from the face of the earth or something? It's been lonely here without ya... (not really but just to make you feel better)

DT is doing what he should be doing...studying..ha ha

[shockandawe]

shockandawe,

i think you need to get your facts straight about saba and smu.
plastic cadavers, professors as students....... where did you pull that garbage from?

just because there are many questions surrounding your school doesnt make it ok to throw out baseless and complete lies about other schools.

Scott1981,

FACT 1: PhD's are brought in from the USA and offered Medical Degrees with free tuition and a humble salary, on the condition that they teach courses at Saba. How do I know this to be true?? Because unlike you, who is sitting on your computer and being fed all kinds of **, I went to visit Saba and I met and shook hands with these people, teaching these courses.

FACT 2: SMU uses plastic cadavers. How do I know this? Because I went to their school when they were on an a little island off of Belize. They told us that the Belize government gave them problems and would not allow them to get real cadavers. Fair enough... But Belize College of Medicine, another off-shore medical school, had real cadavers. Fair enough, those days are gone, now they are in the Cayman islands, so they should now have real cadavers.. But no, I checked with them and they are still using plastic cadavers. And do you know what they told me? Exactly the SAME EXACT thing that they told me when they were in Belize... it has something to do with the government...

Scott1981, do not kid yourself, because ALL of these carib schools are in some way corrupt... But, at least, SMU and Saba are applying and getting state approval across the board, I cannot say the same for Spartan...

Saba and SMU have moved way ahead of Spartan. But they also have defiencies... We have to look at both the good and the bad... Is it wrong of me, to point out some facts about them??? You want people to go there and get disappointed?? You do not want them to be aware of these things???

The reason why Saba and SMU have moved past Spartan isn't because they have better facilities, nor more experience, nor more licensed physicians in more states, nor more successsful physicians (Doctors of the Year, Stevie Award Winner, Nobel Prize invitee, Residents of the Year, etc, etc...) nor even better clinicals.. The reason why they are better is because they have good, strong, viable, hardworking administrations who do the right thing, who listen to their students, who apply for state to state approval, who concentrate on good PR, etc... Put a good administration into Spartan and they will run right over SMU and Saba combined... -s&a

[ZAATARI]

It sounds like good idea,I can go to SABA,teach,get paid and get second MD degree....man I love the American dream...

[Scott1981]

shockandawe,

this is your problem. you make judgements too fast. proof is that you judged me way to quick.

im not just sitting at home on my computer being fed **. Im a 2nd semester student at AUC on st maarten and am actually looking out my window now and see SABA in the distance. Ive visited the island numerous times as well as their school. heck, ive even scaled the highest mountain in the netherlands kingdom (the saban volcano......i think mt pleasant).

when i was there, i checked out the school and visited their anatomy lab. they had about 15-20 cadavers from what i saw. you claimed that SMU AND SABA had plastic cadavers.

i dont know about your credibility, but ill give you the benefit of the doubt as far as shaking hands with these people. if it is true, then its troubling to me. but if thats what it takes to get good solid professors there teaching, then i dont see that big of a problem. it doesnt take away from their qualifications to teach the particular class.

now you are saying for sure that SMU uses plastic cadavers. i dont know how that can be true if the have ny approval for full clinicals, let alone about to get CA approval.

so NO, i do have a lot of info from my OWN eyes and im not just sitting at home being fed **.

[ZAATARI]

In my professional openion I think in order for SABA to get CA approval they had to be good.As of now if you consider state approvals,cost,very energetic administration,I would think SABA is the best deal $5500/semester in the carribean[other CA approved schools cost $8000-$12000/semester/man that is too much]

[anotherstudent]

In my professional openion I think in order for SABA to get CA approval they had to be good.As of now if you consider state approvals,cost,very energetic administration,I would think SABA is the best deal $5500/semester in the carribean[other CA approved schools cost $8000-$12000/semester/man that is too much]
Agreed. they know what they're doing.

[shockandawe]

scott1981,

I did NOT say that Saba had plastic cadavers, I specifically said that SMU HAS PLASTIC CADAVERS and if you do not believe me than I think you should call or find out and get educated about it...

As far as Saba is concerned, I said that they have PhD teachers, which are students too and this is a fact. Dude, before you start making acussations, why don't you ask and find out the truth... I never denied that Saba has real cadavers. I know they do have real cadavers because I saw them with my own eyes. But I also met Saba professors that were, at that time, teaching courses such as biochem and micro, etc.. and they were also students. Why don't you inquire about it first before talking about things that you know next to nothing about... -s&a

[Scott1981]

Without their administration, which goes out of their way to do a good job, Saba really isn't better than Spartan. Their campus isn't as nice, their facilities are nothing to brag about, their island is not a good place to live, their professors are students too, at the same school, at the same time, etc, etc... If it weren't for the fact that one of the Courant writers was a Spartan drop-out, that article might have been written about Saba or St. Mathews with their plastic cadavers...




ok, lets cut it with the sarcastic remarks about myself knowing next to nothing about this issue. im probably guilty of the same thing with you.

but maybe im reading your comment wrong. that last sentence sounded like you were refering to saba.

[anotherstudent]

that last sentence sounded like you were refering to saba.
there is really nothing to defend about saba. saba is "on the ball" in a general sense and everyone knows it.
even if they did have plastic cadavers, if it was good enough for cali and ny, who cares.

[Scott1981]

here is what SMU uses for anatomy. its called plastination. some US med schools are using it as well.

more info about it is here.

http://www.med.umich.edu/anatomy/plastinate/

its actually kinda interesting.
although i wouldnt give up my memories of butchering my cadavers for anything. but i only say this now that im actually finished with that class.[/url]

[shockandawe]

scott1981,

I apologize, if I, in any way offended you. I will try and be more mindfull.

I think that part of the anatomy experience involves cutting and dissecting out the different parts of the body. This is extremely important. SMU has been and will continue to be attacked for not providing their students with real cadavers.

As for Saba, they are using professor-students... I think its kind of odd, weird, to have your classmate in one course, be your professor in another... Saba is still the best buy of all the carib schools, especially with CA approval...

But what I am trying to tell my Spartan friends is that Spartan too can get CA and other states if they just apply and put a little effort into it... All of our problems stem from a completely and utterly dense and incompetent administration... -s&a

[ZAATARI]

In the past many of us did not care about California approval since many has no interest in going to California[too expensive,most groups do not offer partnership],we still have no interest in CA but now group of state boards following CA assessment and the other group will follow the federation April 05 assessment[that account for >30% of state boards]
then the smaller boards likely to follow.
I live in the heart of all of this politics,the main reason [according to one AMA article]for the FSMB forming a committe to review the statndards of foreign schools is in response to the CT article and logically the schools under the spotlight will be the stars of the FSMB to review.
Some schools might take "low key approach/wait and see attitude],others will have confident to face anything,and some will rush to gain every possible approvals they can get ASAP.
We alumni,residents and students must have a role in this to assure favorable outcome with the FSMB recommendations and must do everything in our power to help because staying low key away from the heat might not help because the thunderstorm might just knock our doors.
our goals to be the best and we must do everything we requested to do to reach this goal with the help of everyone for the sake of everyone.

[IMG X-Files]

I was pleasantly surprised to find some credible Alumni from Spartan University, after reviewing the school's curriculum, and application, I believe the school is on the right track and considerably improved in the past 5 years......there are stil few deficiencies that the school must work on, such as research, facilities, and laboratories (pathology, anatomyspecifically !)

here are some, alumni/graduates:

Perry Krichmar, M.D., F.A.C.C.
http://healthybodyhealthymind.com/

Parker Lyn, MD (Spartan Graduate)
http://tamhsc.edu/academics/catalog/faculty/com_m-q.php

Claude Meeks, MD
http://www.medschool.lsuhsc.edu/family_medicine/lafayette.asp

[blondeshedoc]

Hello,

I would like to say that I asked my boyfriend, who went to Saba, about the student-teacher situation. He said that it is common knowledge that Saba has this policy, and this is what they are using to entice USA educated PhDs to come and teach. THIS was how they got CA licensure. They needed to increase the USA educated faculty. Maybe if Spartan was as inventive, then we could have CA too. This is no secret that Saba is doing the student-teacher thing. It might be weird to have a teacher in your class, but it is something that you overlook with time.