Varna

[albion]

Any current students or graduates of the Varna 4-year English program
willing to share opinions? The website claims licensed US and UK physicians but I have beeen unable to verify whether these are from the
original Bulgarian program or the 4 year English version. I would appreciate any information --- Thanks

[Miklos]

Any current students or graduates of the Varna 4-year English program
willing to share opinions? The website claims licensed US and UK physicians but I have beeen unable to verify whether these are from the
original Bulgarian program or the 4 year English version. I would appreciate any information --- Thanks

Isn't the four year program brand new?

[chiro-md]

I’m currently applying to this school and many more for Sept 05 and I have been communicating to two students currently in this program. So let me tell you what I know about the school. The school has been around for a long time I think it started in the 1960's but the English 4 year program is new and started in Sept 04 and took in 7-10 students I think a couple of American and some Canadians and the rest from Europe. But in talking to a fellow Canadian she was very nervous at the start of the program but she said

"that the program and the knowledgeable staff have exceeded whatever expectations I did have. The professors are all very helpful and approachable and our classes are taught with clear overheads and slides. They also follow the textbooks closely so that it is possible to refer to them for clarification. This being said the only difficulties that we have faced thus far are mainly communication problems, this doesn’t pertain as much to the school as it does with just daily living. Many Bulgarians do speak English but it is impossible to say that you will never experience a problem because of the language barrier."

and here is another quote from a different student

“As far as the school is concerned, the university is very serious in getting us prepared for the USMLE. We have USMLE format exams and the curriculum is also USMLE based.

We have several well known professors that are teaching us histology, embryology and physiology. One is the rector of Sofia Medical School; another is a well known professor from Thessaloniki Medical School and another one from Sofia.

They are really spoiling us here and they try to fulfill almost all of our requests. Whenever we have a problem, they do anything in their power to help us.

All of the other students are very nice and we stick together as we all foreigners here and we feel almost the same.

It would be good for you to start learning a little bit of Bulgarian, just basic words, if you can. I get around a lot easier by knowing some basic Bulgarian, but the others have a problem when they try to say what they want in a restaurant or some other places as people don't speak or understand much English, especially older people. Young people should know better English as they study English at school."

I would like it if any other current students would let us know that they are here and answer some of the questions about this school. I think that this school will be the next up and comer. Just for people who wanted more information about there school there is a web site it is.
http://www.varnamed.org/index.html

[cristagali]

If you really want to get out of med school in 4 years as an IMG, go to carib. school. I think there will be problems in the future for people attending expedited med schools that don't mirror home programs. There already cracking down on DDS and DC that are getting "MD's" in 24 months (by internet or short visit to the island), and I assume the FSMB can expand that definition to other geographical. BUT...I would try to talk to some students who have graduated from one of the Polish 4 year prgrams, maybe it's ok. I don't want to steer you wrong, but research and ask lots of questions. Goof luck.

[neongoat]

I spent a lot of time talking to some former students of Varna's 6-year program last summer and dealing with their admissions "office" in Canada. You can look up my older posts concerning Varna if you like. It's no secret that I detest the lady that I tried to deal with in Canada - she avoided my questions and lied to me on more than one occasion. After getting past her and finding out information directly from the school or students it was a much better experience.

Based on 2 months of trying to get information, here's what I discovered:

I spoke on the phone with 2 former students of the 6-year program which was entirely in Bulgarian. Both said that the quality of education was very good and that they had no problems being able to pass the USMLE and get residency, but they worked hard to study. The 2 former students were (1) in residency for psychiatry and (1) already a certified cardiologist.

Further, on the positive notes, the location of the school is excellent and everythign I have read and all the ppl I have talked to have said that Varna is a great place to live, it's cheap, and the ppl are friendly.

As far as the negatives:
1. If you have student loans already from undergrad, they will not be deferred the entire 4 years you are at Varna. You will have to try to get a financial hardship deferrment (max 3 years) since the school is not recognized and you cannot claim in-school deferrment. This is actually the case for most foreign medical schools, with the exception of the Caribbean and certain EE med schools. There is a website which lists the schools which entitle you to in-school deferrment, try google.

2. You cannot get Stafford loans for this school, but again, this is the case with the majority of the med schools in the world. You can get private loans or find some other way to pay the 9000.00$/year tuition.

I guess I could list other "negatives" like the 4-year program being new or not accredited in Cali but these are not things that someone who is seriously considering going to Bulgaria for a 4-year med school program should be worrying about ;)

I am sure that it's entirely possible to graduate from this school in 4 years and get a good residency position in primary care in the US. Just make sure you're interested in primary care and not dermatology if you plan on heading back to the US.

My 2 cents.

[North American Office]

You should post information that is accurrate. The person who posted the message is not seeking to buy a medical degree or attend any expedited internet program. Any DC who attends a recognized four-year medical degree program in any reputable medical school will be eligible to sit for the licensing examinations in USA or Canada.

The Faculty of Medicine does not grant advanced standing to students with degrees in chiropractic sciences, dentistry, podiatry or even osteopathic medicine. Therefore, if you're implying that the Faculty of Medicine at Varna is granting advance standing to chiropractors, that statement is absolutely false and has no place on a public discussion forum. If you are implying that chiropractors are unable to obtain a legitimate four-year medical degree and sit for licensing examinations, this is even more ludicrous.

The only instances where chiropractors, dentists and podiatrists, and even DO's have gotten themselves into legal difficulties involved situations where, as you described, they went to weekend schools or completed medical school online. There were many schools in the Dominican Republic that were closed down for selling medical degrees to chiropractors and dentists. There are even such schools now operating all over the Caribbean.

The four-year medical program at Varna is registered and recognized by ECFMG and students are able to sit for the licensing examinations in USA. The same is true for students wishing to sit for the Canadian licensing exams.

Many chiropractors, in fact, hold bachelor's degree in biological sciences and have completed the same premedical courses as any other medical school candidate. Are you saying that just because a person has attended a chiropractic college, he will be unable to attend a four-year medical program?

If you're suggesting that people should attend only 6-year programs if they're going to Europe, this is another misleading implication of your post. Six-year programs may be suitable for people without bachelor's degrees or premedical courses. It makes absolutely no sense for a chiropractor who has already spent 8 years in school to go to a six-year program and start learning biology and chemistry all over again!

Please, do not post misleading information directed at any particular instiution unless you are prepared to back it up with facts. You should realize that someone could erroneously rely on your information and make the wrong decision. If this ever happens, you will have done that person or those similarly situated, a great disservice.

[neongoat]

Here's the "North American Office" posting again to courageously and enthusiastically defend Varna's medical degree program ... but as usual we are left wondering what this person is defending the school from.

Has anyone posted anything that is attacking this program in this thread? The only purpose you are serving here is to discredit your school. We are a group of people seeking information, that is all - no one is attacking or even criticizing the program at Varna, 4-year or 6-year.

U need to get a massage or smoke something - you seem so tense :)

[Miklos]

The four-year medical program at Varna is registered and recognized by ECFMG and students are able to sit for the licensing examinations in USA. The same is true for students wishing to sit for the Canadian licensing exams.

If you're suggesting that people should attend only 6-year programs if they're going to Europe, this is another misleading implication of your post. Six-year programs may be suitable for people without bachelor's degrees or premedical courses. It makes absolutely no sense for a chiropractor who has already spent 8 years in school to go to a six-year program and start learning biology and chemistry all over again!

Please, do not post misleading information directed at any particular instiution unless you are prepared to back it up with facts. You should realize that someone could erroneously rely on your information and make the wrong decision. If this ever happens, you will have done that person or those similarly situated, a great disservice.

A couple of points...

Sitting for licensing examinations does NOT mean that the student/graduate is eligible for licensing throughout North America. Every state and province makes its own rules (cf. California). Also, implying that someone can easily return to Canada after going abroad is highly misleading.

Re: 6 year programs in Europe versus 4 year programs. In addition to the other arguments, I would like to point out that even within Europe, graduates of 4 year European programs face additional licensing/registration difficulties (cf. General Medical Council decisions for four year program graduates).

Miklos

[albion]

The post by Miklos distinguishing between 4 year and 6 year programs in current EU member states seems true for the UK where the General Medical Council 'may require further information from those whose course lasted less than 6 years - (this is all I have been able to find in the UK). However, if, for example, the current 4 year Polish programs can lead to registration in Poland, then I think they must be accepted elsewhere in the EU. Anything else will be against the spirit of the EU. As for the UK, some UK universities with established medical schools have already introduced a 4 year program for graduates which will make it more difficult for the GMC to quibble about 4 year degrees from elsewhere in the EU.

Back to Varna. It seems that Bulgaria will join the EU in 2007, so it is likely the above will apply. The fate of any graduates of the earlier established 4 year EU (but aimed at North America) MD courses seeking EU registration will be the pointer.

(A few medical schools (not the offshore schools teaching basic sciences here) have recently been established at UK universities. None have California recognition .......... )

[Miklos]

The post by Miklos distinguishing between 4 year and 6 year programs in current EU member states seems true for the UK where the General Medical Council 'may require further information from those whose course lasted less than 6 years - (this is all I have been able to find in the UK). However, if, for example, the current 4 year Polish programs can lead to registration in Poland, then I think they must be accepted elsewhere in the EU. Anything else will be against the spirit of the EU. As for the UK, some UK universities with established medical schools have already introduced a 4 year program for graduates which will make it more difficult for the GMC to quibble about 4 year degrees from elsewhere in the EU.

Back to Varna. It seems that Bulgaria will join the EU in 2007, so it is likely the above will apply. The fate of any graduates of the earlier established 4 year EU (but aimed at North America) MD courses seeking EU registration will be the pointer.

(A few medical schools (not the offshore schools teaching basic sciences here) have recently been established at UK universities. None have California recognition .......... )

I would not place too much faith in either the spirit of the EU (whatever that is) or Bulgaria joining in 2007.

Further, earlier someone from Poland posted that some of their four year grads had difficulties getting registered in Germany. (Couldn't find the post after a cursory search.)

Miklos

[chiro-md]

It is good to see the North American office posting on this forum again. I would like to extend you an invitation to stay and answer any questions from prospective students. I understand that you current students will be entering there clinical rotations in the next 2 years and I was wondering if and where they are being setup and if you could be specific that would be helpful.

Thank you

[North American Office]

The North American office does not post regularly on chat forums because we do not consider internet chat forums a reliable medium for exchange of accurate information. We prefer to deal directly with serious and qualified applicants. We do not recommend any prospective applicant to the program at Varna or any other institution to rely too much on what they read on this forum or, for that matter, any other similar chat boards. It is best to deal directly with the office and the current students, if you are considering the program.

We provide pre-admissions counseling to serious and qualified applicants on a one-on-one basis and encourage them to contact the current students for more feedback and insight. We also recommend and do arrange for a visit to Varna so that prospective students can evaluate first-hand the program, meet the instructors, students, and university administration, to determine if the program meets their needs. This is the best way to make an informed decision. Not every program is suitable to the needs of every applicant and not every applicant or prospective student is a suitable candidate for the program at Varna.

Also, we do not market or promote the program on public chat forums. The North American office deals directly with colleges and universities in USA and Canada, including pre-med advisiors and campus based premedical clubs to recruit qualified students. Very few of our applicants come to us from public chat forums or similar mediums. We have found that campus based recruiting events and one-on-one interaction with prospective applicants produce a more soild applicant pool from which to make admissions decisions.

In the past, we have found it necessary to post replies to certain messages; however, this is an exception, rather than the rule.
Good luck with selecting a program that meets your specific needs.

[Miklos]

The North American office does not post regularly on chat forums because we do not consider internet chat forums a reliable medium for exchange of accurate information. We prefer to deal directly with serious and qualified applicants. We do not recommend any prospective applicant to the program at Varna or any other institution to rely too much on what they read on this forum or, for that matter, any other similar chat boards. It is best to deal directly with the office and the current students, if you are considering the program.

We provide pre-admissions counseling to serious and qualified applicants on a one-on-one basis and encourage them to contact the current students for more feedback and insight. We also recommend and do arrange for a visit to Varna so that prospective students can evaluate first-hand the program, meet the instructors, students, and university administration, to determine if the program meets their needs. This is the best way to make an informed decision. Not every program is suitable to the needs of every applicant and not every applicant or prospective student is a suitable candidate for the program at Varna.

Also, we do not market or promote the program on public chat forums. The North American office deals directly with colleges and universities in USA and Canada, including pre-med advisiors and campus based premedical clubs to recruit qualified students. Very few of our applicants come to us from public chat forums or similar mediums. We have found that campus based recruiting events and one-on-one interaction with prospective applicants produce a more soild applicant pool from which to make admissions decisions.

In the past, we have found it necessary to post replies to certain messages; however, this is an exception, rather than the rule.
Good luck with selecting a program that meets your specific needs.

No, the problem with Internet chat rooms is that prospective students and others often end up asking inconvenient (that is to the school/organization or agent) questions.

[neongoat]

I completely agree with Miklos here. Obviously 99% of the questions asked here concerning the program at Varna are not answered on their website and often the answers, once they are made "public" do not make the program/school more attractive.

we do not consider internet chat forums a reliable medium for exchange of accurate information

While this statement made hold some truth, I think it is just as easy to say "I do not consider agents' websites representing/promoting a medical school in Varna as a reliable medium for exchange of accurate information."

This forum is, in my opinion, the best place to find information concerning many foreign medical schools. It is hopefully not the only place that a prospective student will get information, but it is certainly helpful and should not be dismissed as completely unreliable or misleading.

[michalvolos]

I see that there is a lot of confusion about our school.
First, Varna Medical University is operating for decades now and is considered a very good medical school in E. Europe. The school is even approved in California (6 years program).
The 4 year program is a completely new program and is quite different from the Bulgarian program. It is totally oriented towards the USMLE. All our examinations are based on USMLE type questions. We study all the material we need to know to pass the USMLE and more. We have a great plus I think which is the combination between the American system of medical teaching and that of the European.
All our professors are respectable professors that even teach us the labs. I heard that in some schools the labs are taught by other more senior students but that is certainly not the case here.
I will be happy to answer any more questions.

[Miklos]

I see that there is a lot of confusion about our school.
First, Varna Medical University is operating for decades now and is considered a very good medical school in E. Europe. The school is even approved in California (6 years program).
The 4 year program is a completely new program and is quite different from the Bulgarian program. It is totally oriented towards the USMLE. All our examinations are based on USMLE type questions. We study all the material we need to know to pass the USMLE and more. We have a great plus I think which is the combination between the American system of medical teaching and that of the European.
All our professors are respectable professors that even teach us the labs. I heard that in some schools the labs are taught by other more senior students but that is certainly not the case here.
I will be happy to answer any more questions.

I am glad you like it there and I wish you the best of luck.

However, because it is a brand-new program, I am certain that it has kinks to work out.

Re: USMLE & American style of teaching.

How many of your teachers have passed the USMLE?
For that matter, how many students?

Miklos

[neilc]

First, Varna Medical University is operating for decades now and is considered a very good medical school in E. Europe. The school is even approved in California (6 years program).


the 6-year bulgarian progam is approved, however the english programs are not...see http://www.medbd.ca.gov/Approved_Schools.htm

if a school is approved for the english language program, it is noted in parenthesis next to the school's name

[Miklos]

Bump for chopramo...

It is interesting to note that both Plovdiv (http://www.muplovdiv.org/contact.html) and Varna (http://www.varnamed.org/contact1.html) are represented by the same folks.

[chopramo]

Hey ppl new to valumd and was looking for more infor on plovdiv med school in bulgaria THE 4 YEAR program... anyone know if its recog in canada, US, UK ??? where can i get official infor on that? who can i call or which website should i check to see if its recognized.

Also is it possible to come back to North America to do rotations, i mean can i spend 2 yrs in bulgaria and the next 2 yrs in North America?

any info will be helpful. thanks

[Miklos]

Hey ppl new to valumd and was looking for more infor on plovdiv med school in bulgaria THE 4 YEAR program... anyone know if its recog in canada, US, UK ??? where can i get official infor on that? who can i call or which website should i check to see if its recognized.

Also is it possible to come back to North America to do rotations, i mean can i spend 2 yrs in bulgaria and the next 2 yrs in North America?

any info will be helpful. thanks

Canada

Gaining a residency as an IMG is Canada is extremely difficult. For statistics, see this link at CARMS: http://www.carms.ca/jsp/main.jsp?path=../content/statistics/statistics/st_2005#imgs2nd

You may wish to review the discrimination inherent in the Canadian match for IMGs at http://www.carms.ca/jsp/main.jsp?path=../content/applying/eligibility

You'll also note that Ontario recently only approved graduates of medical schools in English speaking countries to apply to open spots after the second iteration. See http://www.health.gov.on.ca/english/providers/ministry/recruit/rec_05/elig_040405.pdf

See the Canadian IMG forum for further details.

UK

Polish four year programs are currently not recognized for full registration in the UK, unless one can prove that the medical education meets the EU directives AND has EU citizenship or residency rights. The reason Poland is important is because (outside of graduate entry programs in the UK), it is the only country currently in the EU with four-year programs. Bulgaria is expected to join the EU in either 2007 (or 2008 if the EU commission delays it). In addition, Bulgaria will need to prove to the GMC (htttp://www.gmc-uk.org) that medical education meets EU directives. Even if that takes place, without EU citizenship or residency rights, one would still need to cross two hurdles. 1) The PLAB (an examination) and 2) Getting a work permit.

US

Six year native language (Bulgarian programs) are approved by California (http://www.medbd.ca.gov/Applicant_Schools_Recognized.htm#B), but English language programs are not. This means no clinical rotations/residency/licensure in California.

No Bulgarian schools are approved in New York. (http://www.op.nysed.gov/medforms.htm) This means that if one does more than 12 weeks of clinical rotations outside of Bulgaria, one is not eligible for residency in New York.

Plovdiv appears on the Texas (http://www.tsbme.state.tx.us/professionals/docinfo/doclic.htm) list of schools that do not need to prove substantial equivalence. So licensure is easier in Texas than for other schools in the region that are not approved.

Regarding rotations in North America: Not all rotations are alike. If the rotation is not offered at a program that has an ACGME/RCPS(C) residency in that specialty OR under the family practice umbrella (meaning the hospital has an ACGME approved family practice program--doesn't apply to all states), one will have difficulties with licensure.

Miklos

[chopramo]

thanks for the info, its really helpful.
the thing is now i have to think things over....

its crazy...any idea which country is the best to go to outside of canada, cheap and easy to get in?

do reply....thanks for your help

:)

[Miklos]

thanks for the info, its really helpful.
the thing is now i have to think things over....

its crazy...any idea which country is the best to go to outside of canada, cheap and easy to get in?

do reply....thanks for your help

:)

My advice: Finish your degree at UofT, take the MCAT and then apply to North American schools first. Going abroad should be your last option. Remember, if you find out that medical school is not for you, you then have your Bachelor's to fall back on.

[drtintin]

Well I will dare to be a bit frank
Some questions to North American office:
1 Don’t you people think writing in the public forum makes the matter more transparent?

2 Are you sure that your decision to stay off from the public forums is ONLY based upon the fact that its not much helpful ? or you have fears in your mind that writing in the public forums will expose you to some questions/Information which is better to hide than to Expose?(Well I think every school has some problems and Bulgaria is not an exception to that)

3 Are you aware of the fact that the many Indian Students studying in you schools(and which comprise a great percentage of your foreign students ) have not been allowed even to sit for the MCI (Med council of India )screening tests(I myself don’t know why but they had some Problems in recognizing the Bulgarian degrees )

4 What apart of business motives(you told that u people don’t have any business/promotion motives ) makes you open up an office in the Northern America when these North American Grads passing from your school are not going to serve your country in any way ?
And what makes you open up programmes in English when the official language of your country is Bulgarian?

5 Don’t you think that the public forums are more accessible/helpful to general students than the so called
" one to one interaction" where there is no third “one” to interrupt you incase you misguide someone ?

6 And how much commission do you get from your schools?

[quaintlee]

It was quite disheartening to see how some agents are ruining the reputation of Bulgarian medical education on this forum.

THERE ARE NO 4 YEAR MEDICAL PROGRAMS IN BULGARIA; THE BULGARIAN MINISTRY OF EDUCATION WOULD NOT APPROVE SUCH A PROGRAM

IN VARNA THEY DO NOT TEACH IN ENGLISH.
Whats the point in studying in Bulgarian when you can study in English at the same price in other universities in Bulgaria - Pleven and Sofia

This is for Dr Nitin , I am studying in Bulgaria and I have not heard of any students having problems with having their degrees recognized in India (provided they clear MCI). In fact Bulgarian students have one of the highest pass rates for the MCI exam compared with students at other medical colleges abroad.
You said that you are aware that Indian students in Bulgaria have faced problems in India, do you know anyone personally?

From the 3 batches of Indian students that have passed out from here .. I am aware of only about 8-10 students who have not cleared MCI. Out of these a few did not appear for MCI out of choice, or cause they do not intend to work in India.

No university in Bulgaria forces any student to go through an agent, if a student can do the admission procedure himself then they are welcome to contact the university directly themselves.

It is unfortunate that some agents misinform students and abuse their position.

As you said all universities have their problems and shortfalls, but Im quite satisfied with the teaching provided here, and the success of the students who have gone before me is testimonial to the fact that its more than satisfactory.