Lack of "Clinical Centers"

[domdom]

I was wondering if anyone knows why Ross does not have any "clinical centers" like St. George's has. What I mean by clinical centers is a hospital where you can complete all your rotations and has staff dedicated soley to teaching Ross students. I have heard Kern and in Chicago you can do all your rotations, however, it is not a clinical center and there are no dedicated staff. I just find it very strange that St. Georges has several of these locations and Ross has none. If you go to the websites of many of these clinical centers, it lists the school as a main affiliate and gives credibility to the school. The few sites I saw talked about St. Georges like it was a US school. I sent Dr. Perri two emails in NJ and she has yet to respond. I am not trying to stir up any negativity but merely trying to find some answers. I wish Ross would step up their game and acquire these clinical centers in the next few months before I leave the island

[FRNC]

Probably not going to happen during your tenure at Ross. My observance is that the successful students at Ross are able to make "sweet lemonade" when life hands them lemons. Best wishes for your success.

[RossMD2006]

Domdom,

You say that Kern and JPH are not clinical centers? Your definition of a clinical center is a place where you can do all your cores and there is a dedicated staff. First, you can do all your cores at Kern (Cali) and JPH in Chicago. Second, dedicated staff? Unless you talked to someone who rotated through JPH or Kern, how can you say the staff there is undedicated when you haven't even been there. Kern is probably one of the best clinical sites Ross has to offer.

Maybe why Dr. Perri is not responding is because a student, like yourself, who is in Dominica, who probably hasnt even touched foot yet in JPH or Kern, tells her that Ross does a poor job when it comes to picking these so-called clinical centers. The last thing she wants to hear is a student like yourself complaining to her that the work she has done needs improvement. Plus, you say that St. George is "like a US school". Who cares? You're getting all tied up in this "St. George and Ross, FMG vs US drama.

Don't expect a reply from Dr. Perri anytime soon.

[myrandom2003]

jph and kern maybe clinical centers, but they arent ones that all the students can opt into...kern for instance only takes those with like the top step one scores and rumor has it, they only take students once or twice a year and only 5 students at a time...jph is a clinical center for like 5 carib schools and apparently according to previous posts isnt available till may, and if you start rotations somewhere else in the mean time, u cant do the rest at jph...thats my 2 cents

[MitchDC]

While SGU uses the term "clinical center" and Ross doesn't, that doesn't mean that you can't do all of your rotations in one location at Ross. Just like JEEP is now using the self-created term "trail raited" on their vehicles that doesn't mean that they are the only ones that can go off road - although they would like you to think that.

By the way, I just looked and I couldn't find any of the SGU Clinical Centers that offered ALL the CORE rotations (FP, IM, Surgery, ObGyn, Psych, and Peds). As a matter of fact, their website says "A clinical center is defined as a hospital (or GROUP of hospitals) able to provide at least four of five core rotations and train 80 to 100 students at all times." Okay, well Ross has a bunch of GROUPS of hospitals where students can do ALL five Core rotations. The fact that they can train 80-100 all at one time only means that the facility is large and you'll have a lot of your fellow students right along your side. That could be good and could be bad.

If you look deeper, you will notice that ALL of the SGU clinical centers are in New York or New Jersey. At Ross students can easily do ALL of their rotations in one area of New York or New Jersey without moving around. So really, this is not a big deal. Alternately, if the words "clinical center" makes you feel better you can say that Ross has numerous clinical centers (=groups of hospitals in which you can do ALL of your rotations) in NY/NJ as well. You could also add Jackson Park (IL) and Kern (CA) to the list.

I'm not sure what you mean by "dedicated staff". If you mean staff that SGU has hired especially for their own students, I very much doubt that is the case -- nor does the website make this claim.

By the way, what gives you the impression that doing all of your rotations in one hospital is really the best situation? While it is great in terms of convenience, we all know that certain hospitals have great surgery (for example), but may not be so great in IM. Is it wrong to pick and choose from different hospitals stronger programs?

Dr. Perri, in addition to being Dean of Clinical Sciences is the Cheif Academic Officer of the University and has a lot on her plate right now. However, its clear that her answer would be similar to what you have read here from myself and others.

Just some ideas - hope they help clear things up for you.

-M
I was wondering if anyone knows why Ross does not have any "clinical centers" like St. George's has. What I mean by clinical centers is a hospital where you can complete all your rotations and has staff dedicated soley to teaching Ross students. I have heard Kern and in Chicago you can do all your rotations, however, it is not a clinical center and there are no dedicated staff. I just find it very strange that St. Georges has several of these locations and Ross has none. If you go to the websites of many of these clinical centers, it lists the school as a main affiliate and gives credibility to the school. The few sites I saw talked about St. Georges like it was a US school. I sent Dr. Perri two emails in NJ and she has yet to respond. I am not trying to stir up any negativity but merely trying to find some answers. I wish Ross would step up their game and acquire these clinical centers in the next few months before I leave the island

[sw]

I cannot comment about JPH, but Kern medical center does have a dedicated medical education staff. This staff is very dedicated at Kern...they do numerous things for the students including organizing lectures for us (at least twice a week) of board relevent topics.

You can also complete all of your rotations here..In fact, if you are accepted here as a Ross student you are required to do ALL of your cores here..these are all scheduled consecutively with no gaps! You can also complete many electives here.

I do agree that Ross needs to attain more sites like this, as Kern only accepts a few Ross students. Actually, at this time Kern has stopped accepting Ross students (hopefully this is temporary and the administration at Ross can correct this).

Mitch has stated that SGU and AUC clinical centers are all in NY or NJ..this is not correct as Kern is a site for both of these schools. We (ross, auc, sgu) are all in the same program here, and many of the residents at Kern are from these schools.

[domdom]

SW, thank you for the input on Kern. It is nice to hear from someone who has actually gone through the program and not just commentating from the outside. Rossmd2006, why are you so bitter? Based on what I hear from friends who have either graduated from Ross recently or are currently rotating in the states, Ross does not have "clinical Centers." Kern and the one in Chicago only accept a very small number of students so perhaps they can be called clinical centers to the 2% of students that rotate there but if you only accept a tiny number of students, how can you truly call them clinical "Centers"?? Even the hospitals in New York do not allow you to take all your rotations in one spot. They may be done in the same city but not in the same hospital. MitchDC, since you are all mighty and know everyone there is to know about Ross, can you tell me which hospitals are clinical centers in NY/NJ??? You may have a tough time answering that one. The reason for my post is not to bash Ross as I am a Ross student who happens to be doing well, but to find out WHY Ross does not have clinical centers? Does it have to do with step 1 pass rates? Does it have to do with the behavior of some previous students who rotated through some of these hospitals? Is it a financial reason- perhaps the hospital requires Ross to pay additional fees if they are based out of their location? There may be some upside to experiencing different hospitals and training under different personnel but it makes you wonder why such an established school like Ross does not have FIRM clinical centers.

[MD05/06]

If Ross has a "clinical center" its got to be Wyckoff.

And what do you mean by "dedicated staff". I have rotated at one of SGU's clinical centers, Miamonidis Medical Center. I have not met any attending there who is "dedicated" to teaching SGU students. Most acctually do not care about medical students. They worry about teaching residents first.


*****Profanity edited by Moderator

[MitchDC]

Again, look at the definition of CLINICAL CENTER on the SGU website that I quoted. Its a hospital or GROUP (more than one, NOT all in one location) of hospitals where students can perform at least 4/5 of their core rotations there. That DOESN'T mean that you can do all of your rotations in one spot as you seem to want to believe. Ross has a large GROUP of hospitals in New York at which you can do all of your core rotations, not just 4/5 of them.

Additionally, while Kern may host SGU students as well, Kern Medical Center is NOT listed as a clnical center on the SGU website. This is because it does not meet their definition of CLINICAL CENTER (they do not host at least 80-100 SGU students at one location).

Best of luck!

-M

SW, thank you for the input on Kern. It is nice to hear from someone who has actually gone through the program and not just commentating from the outside. Rossmd2006, why are you so bitter? Based on what I hear from friends who have either graduated from Ross recently or are currently rotating in the states, Ross does not have "clinical Centers." Kern and the one in Chicago only accept a very small number of students so perhaps they can be called clinical centers to the 2% of students that rotate there but if you only accept a tiny number of students, how can you truly call them clinical "Centers"?? Even the hospitals in New York do not allow you to take all your rotations in one spot. They may be done in the same city but not in the same hospital. MitchDC, since you are all mighty and know everyone there is to know about Ross, can you tell me which hospitals are clinical centers in NY/NJ??? You may have a tough time answering that one. The reason for my post is not to bash Ross as I am a Ross student who happens to be doing well, but to find out WHY Ross does not have clinical centers? Does it have to do with step 1 pass rates? Does it have to do with the behavior of some previous students who rotated through some of these hospitals? Is it a financial reason- perhaps the hospital requires Ross to pay additional fees if they are based out of their location? There may be some upside to experiencing different hospitals and training under different personnel but it makes you wonder why such an established school like Ross does not have FIRM clinical centers.

[2ndyear]

DomDom, don't get so fixated on subjective things like "clinical centers, SGU, AUC, etc. have this and Ross doesn't have that, etc.". All schools, US or not, tend to exagerrate a lot on their websites and promotional brochures! Worry about passing Basic Sciences and 5th semester. And the Big Exam (Step 1-3). I heard all these great things about Maionides (sp.) Hospita being a so called "SGU clinical centers" so I signed up for an elective recently. The attendings there are definitely not there to teach medical students. Not for any school. They are hired by the hospial administration to make money for the hospital. Many attendings I saw there are very old, the facility is nothing to brag about, and the environment is eccentric to say the least.

I agree with others on not doing all your cores at one hospital. It is good to do cores at various hospitals in the same region. You get to experience different clinical scenarios. FYI-many SGU students I spoke to don't do all their cores at one hospital.

[williamrobert]

Anyone hear why Kern is no longer taking Ross students (whether temporarily or otherwise)?

[awdc]

Kern only takes Ross students twice a year. July and I think January. So naturally, they don't take Ross students at any other time.

[sw]

It is true they usually only take students twice a year, but this has stopped for now. I am rotating at Kern and I have been told that they are no longer accepting Ross students b/c of some type of administrative problem. Hopefully this is just temporary, but I don't know.

[Daniel]

It is true they usually only take students twice a year, but this has stopped for now. I am rotating at Kern and I have been told that they are no longer accepting Ross students b/c of some type of administrative problem. Hopefully this is just temporary, but I don't know.

How unfortunate.

[razorback831]

It is true they usually only take students twice a year, but this has stopped for now. I am rotating at Kern and I have been told that they are no longer accepting Ross students b/c of some type of administrative problem. Hopefully this is just temporary, but I don't know.

SW......how did you do on the Step and what was your GPA on the Rock??? Just trying to get an idea of what the standards are to get into Kern.....Also, if you know anyone elses numbers from Ross, could you divulge??? Thanks in advance...