clinicals concern/question i heard about today......

[MushieCookie]

Alright...so we here that there are many clinical spots and many of them are open for the most part (just depends on location). I was having a converation with a 5th semester today in between games of basketball on the courts and he was saying that there are about 8 clinical spots open for his class in the US (California) and about 24ish spots in europe. There are 60 or so people in his class, and to make it worse the spots that are open are being taken by students who have already left the island and taken step I's...which means that the current 5th semesters will be out of spots and will have to wait.

He also stated that that would mean they would not receive financial aid for that time period and would have to start repaying some loans due to the time period they'd be out of school. It would also effect their 2006 residency match where they would more than likely have to wait till 2007 to match.

I understand that there has been someone hired above Phil Green and will be assisting him in all these matters.

A 'mind opening' statement he made was that when he was in my position (3rd semester), he thought it would all just kind of fix itself with all the time until he had to worry about it. Either by fixing the current system if it needs being fixed, add more clinical sites, or add more clinical starting times for students needing spots.

I'm not sure how the whole process works. I know it basically comes down to whoever takes the step I first gets spots first if they're available.

Are the current stats on current clinical sites true? Why is it that we cannot do core roations at hospitals that AUC has 'certified' for elective sites? (especially if there aren't enough spots according to what I got from my conversation today).

So...that comes to the final point. If everyone says there are enough clinical spots open for everyone...where is all this info coming from that I heard today straight from the mouth of a 5th semester?

Any thoughts or input on this matter?

Oh...also...are core roation spots available throughout the year or only once or twice a year? for example, If a certain core rotation lasts 10 weeks...are students entering these rotations every 10 weeks after the current students in them leave?

Thanks.

[Baditude]

This is a concern to me because I have heard from other sources that clincals are hard to come by if you are from AUC but them I started reading the boards and everyone assured me that it wasn't true ..... So I applied and was accepted and am now planning on giving up my waitlist spots at several DO schools. I was hoping to do all my clinicals at Kern in Ca or a Providence in Mi if this is not possible I may have to rethink my choice.

[MushieCookie]

Like I stated, this is from a conversation I had today. I have no reason to believe it's NOT true...but I'm not saying this is exactly what's happening. I was hoping to get more input on this specific matter and concern that popped up today.

If from todays conversation is correct, I guess there has been one hospital that was 'opened' for core clinicals in Louisiana and now we have lost it. From the sounds of my conversation...we need to be keeping these places open, or find more sites for the problem that 5th semester is running into.
How about the new 180ish incoming students? Talk about potential problems...

Also...what is the new person supposed to be doing that was hired 'above' Phil Green? How long has this person been on the job? I hear she will be here during the clinical fair.

[wifeofDr2b]

Here's a spin off question about the clinical fair: the calendar which was in this month's newsletter has the fair down from the 18th-22nd. Why does the schedule only list times for each semester on Monday?

[MushieCookie]

From my understanding...monday is the only time that we will have the 'fair'.

[NickyMD]

wow..if this is true then I will avoid applying for the jan 05 spot ...

[julestx]

I accidentally replied using the "new message" tab...there is a response in its own category on the auc message forum... :oops:

[AUCMD2006]

unless this semster is grossly different from the last 4 that i have looked at the rotation list there are about 50 slots in europe alone plus the 8-10 sites here with typically 4-10 slots each starting every 2-4 months...i will try and get ahold of the list and see but i don't see why this semester would be so different from the last 4...

[bts4202]

If from todays conversation is correct, I guess there has been one hospital that was 'opened' for core clinicals in Louisiana and now we have lost it.

You guys aren't at Chabert anymore? what happened?

[MushieCookie]

If that's the hospital in Lousiana, it's not available anymore. It's either 'closed' for us permanently (meaning they're not renewing the contract), or will soon be.

don't exactly know what happened...

[AUCMD2006]

the hosipital did not renew the contract because they figured that they had too many students and the last two contracts that they signed, AUC and a US med school are not being renewed. it wasn't a student issue or quality of education. it sucks but at lkeast the ones in miami and cvhicago make up the loss

[bts4202]

the hosipital did not renew the contract because they figured that they had too many students and the last two contracts that they signed, AUC and a US med school are not being renewed. it wasn't a student issue or quality of education. it sucks but at lkeast the ones in miami and cvhicago make up the loss

THat really does suck, I have several friends who rotate their and said it is an awesome place. They said there was a ton of hands on training.

[PAC]

Yes we are losing the Houma hospital contract. I do have to diasgree with rrod. Gaining a single place to do a family practice rotation in florida and possibly one or two cores in chicago by no means makes up for losing one of the only places we had in the united states that a student could do most of his or her core rotations. Just my 02 cents
PAC

[anencephalic]

Yes we are losing the Houma hospital contract. I do have to diasgree with rrod. Gaining a single place to do a family practice rotation in florida and possibly one or two cores in chicago by no means makes up for losing one of the only places we had in the united states that a student could do most of his or her core rotations. Just my 02 cents
PAC

The Houma loss is disconcerting to many students, some of whom came to AUC from Louisiana on the premise that there would be clinical sites back home. Definitely a learning experience. I hadn't thought of Houma, but when I found that a majority (all?) of the cores could be done there, I was intrigued. I suppose all of that is irrelevant now, huh? :?

Aloha,

[ValuelessMD]

..........

[FLK]

you forgot to mention :

Key bank won't care either when you can't get a license and have to default on your gazillion dollars in loans.

BUT, who needs a license when you can just start a school and tell all the students that you are a real doctor :wink:

[ValuelessMD]

...........

[AUCMD2006]

"Silly, that "

there you go flk you can officially name valuless as a "her" no guy with an ounce of testosterone would use that phrase..


on the other issue yes it sucks loosing it the florida site has 2 rotations and the are "working" on more, chicago also has 2 FP and Peds and are alo working on getting more but this one i actually got a "we will have more there by septrember". also there are full cores in california, michigan, and 5 out of six in the CT region.

on the other issue its true there are only 8 slots to start in january bc of a large class before so most students either go to england or wait 6 weeks...so to twist the words in BTS style "the initial statement of the available slots was correct it was taken out of context to mean there are only 8 slots where there may or may not have been the original numner of slots, whereby the usual number of slots were in fact available but the end result the 8 slots being available now is a dirrect confabulation of the preceding events whereby a class with a disproportionate number of students may have steped forth to begin the clinical portion of their training at or about the same time that a current class may or may not be in fact finishing their basic science training. if you have any questions please contact the school beecause when somethingt bad happens i either just not answer it or refer people to the sales man to tell them what they want to hear.

ok BTS impersonation off

[bts4202]

on the other issue its true there are only 8 slots to start in january bc of a large class before so most students either go to england or wait 6 weeks...so to twist the words in BTS style "the initial statement of the available slots was correct it was taken out of context to mean there are only 8 slots where there may or may not have been the original numner of slots, whereby the usual number of slots were in fact available but the end result the 8 slots being available now is a dirrect confabulation of the preceding events whereby a class with a disproportionate number of students may have steped forth to begin the clinical portion of their training at or about the same time that a current class may or may not be in fact finishing their basic science training. if you have any questions please contact the school beecause when somethingt bad happens i either just not answer it or refer people to the sales man to tell them what they want to hear.

ok BTS impersonation off

Just like the AUC crowd, some thing bad happens and you attack someone else for no reason. Kepp up the good work.

[AUCMD2006]

as opposed to you who would just deny by not addressing and attacking in another direction????


hey i resent that remark, i have continously attacked people before i was at AUC and before SC guys made it a forte of their defense strategy and i will continue doing so.

[anencephalic]

as opposed to you who would just deny by not addressing and attacking in another direction????

If you can't convince them, CONFUSE THEM! :lol:

Aloha,

[bts4202]

as opposed to you who would just deny by not addressing and attacking in another direction????

If you can't convince them, CONFUSE THEM! :lol:

Aloha,

LMAO :lol: :lol:

[teratos]

Can't we all just get along? G

[microphage]

Can't we all just get along? G

NO


:wink:

[MushieCookie]

WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS POST?!?!?!

Should y'all be studying for block exams anyways???

bwahahahahaha...

[microphage]

WHAT HAPPENED TO THIS POST?!?!?!

Should y'all be studying for block exams anyways???

bwahahahahaha...

I didn't get that memo. Someone should cut off my internet. haha I'm surfing for headphones.

Anybody got ~900 dollars to lend me? I need an upgrade from my Grados.


http://www.goodcans.com/HeadphoneReviews/stax2020.htm

[wifeofDr2b]

We've talked to several 5th semesters who are saying the same thing. Aparently what makes this semester and last semester different from all the ones before are two things, which we have been told by these 5th semesters: 1) the class sizes each semester are getting bigger and more clinical spots were not being added...so now you have larger classes trying to fill the same spots and 2) back when it was smaller class sizes, it would only affect maybe 10 people or so (not having enough spots, people getting "bumped" out of a spot, etc) and now it is affecting 80+ people (and they are making more noise than 10 or so people would make).

We've also been told how there is no organization at AUC by the Clinical department and there is no "tracking" of the students to see who has the scores in and is ready to start...which is why now, there are last semester students saying "Hey, that spot isn't a 5th semester's spot....I already took the test, have my grade...it's mine" which brings me to the next point we were told about.

Apparently Phil Green and Victor ??? were promising spots to current 5th semesters....and with the semester before hand needing spots, these 5th semesters who were told they had a spot got bumped (one of them being the SGA President) and either don't have a spot now and have to wait or the only option is to go to England/Ireland if there are openings (what some would say is being "forced" to go to England/Ireland....but on a side note, if you have time to wait around for the next slot to open at a certain clinical site, that should not be a problem...but how long of a wait determines the site's start date.) First of all, maybe this is what has happened before and they never really got "caught", but promissing spots to people who are not even done w/ 5th semester when there are others out there who are done, taken the Step 1 and need a spot is just crazy. Phil and Victor messed up big time here not staying on top of the students who were already done w/ 5th semester and by promising spots, sending out confirmations....without really having anything to base it on. But one also has to ask: how long are these students waiting then to take their Step 1? Are these students waiting too long and as a result, are creating a problem b/c they are "backing up" onto the next semester....resulting in not enough clinical sopts for everyone who needs them? All the 5th semesters we have talked so say that the Clinical department needs to keep better track of the students and there should be a timeline set that in order to go to a certain site, you need to have your test done by such and such date (which soon, you will need to have a passing score and not just the test taken to begin).

Apparently this lady hired above Phil Green seemd to have a proactive appraoch and wants to get everything fixed. There have been numerous reports written and presented to the right people at MEIO (who were here for the Clinical Fair), the Dean, several professors here, and also Dr. **** was present. So the current 5th semesters and SGA seem to really be making noise on these NUMEROUS issues that are affecting their class and by the looks of it, if nothing is changed, will also affect future classes....since we all know each semester is getting larger and larger...but where are the additional clinical spots to make up the difference?

Again, this is all what we have heard from SEVERAL 5th semester students. They are all saying the same thing and to quote one who was very upfront, "There are just not enough spots". I can see where semester before may not have had these problems, but to have several 5th semesters say the same thing....and we've talked to these people individually, so it wasn't like there was a group just agreeing with what one person said, obviously there IS something going on with the clinical department, clinical spots, and the current situation.

Additionally, we also heard how certain students mentioned their former hospital (where they worked) was a teaching hospital, these students had talked to those in charge of the hospital for setting up cllinical spots and agreed to speak to Phil and Victor about adding AUC since they needed and would gladly take AUC students. We've heard that Phil and Victor were not at the least bit interested in hearing more about these (at least a couple different situations) and at one phone conversation, they told the hospital "we will call you back next week".....and nothing else developed. Again, we've heard a similiar story from at least another individual.

There are a lot of rumors flying around out there, too which I confronted several 5th semesters about and got the real story. I know everyone says don't worry, it will work out, there are enough spots. I agree at one point that may have been the case. I know teratos (editied b/c I originally thought it was FLK) has mentioned his hospital used to have 6 spots that went unfilled. Many students and their families don't want to doubt what the majority used to say regarding clinical spots....but a concern should definitely be there when you do consider larger class sizes with very few additional sites added. Literally, it just doesn't add up. Students should not have to wait any unreasonable time from the time they finish 5th semester, take Step 1, (get their grade since will soon be in affect), and begin their rotations. I can see where some may elect to wait in order to "get" that spot they really wanted....but we are hearing many will have to wait JUST for a spot. Also, we were told this will really affect the January starters b/c the Sept class is always big, is getting bigger, so there may be "leftovers" falling into the next semester (Jan) for clinical spots. THey added that other start months would be affected too, if nothing changes, just not as greatly. Everyone also said they thought when they were 1st, 2nd, 3rd semester, it would all work out. But here they sit with this dilema. It is to the point that several of these 5th semesters.....and additional students in other semesters.......have considered transfering because they feel they were misled by AUC and the clinical department.

I can continue, but this is the majority of things we are hearing from 5th semesters. It seems like the 5th semesters and SGA are doing a great job trying to get these matters heard and eventually trying to get these matters resolved. But we have also heard how it takes a while to get clinical spots opened up. We want to hear what others think about these situations and how much truth there is to all of this. Like the original poster said, we're not believing everything we hear, but at this point with how often we are hearing this, from different people, and the points they give, .....and no information to counter act what we are all hearing, you have to think at least some of it is true.


......Mike Myers in a Linda Richmond voice... "Discuss amoungest yourself."

[microphage]

Most of that is true but we'll get the final word come later today or something. I know the higher ups including the Clinical affairs dean and Dr. **** as well as his son and all the others are setting up meetings left and right so we'll hear the final outcome soon enough.

The clinical fair reps are being good about this and trying to accomodate more students in their spots even though they are already full.

Again, let's not start a hanging just yet.... wait until after block exams!!!! :lol:

[FLK]

I know FLK mentions his hospital used to have 6 spots that went unfilled. "

sorry I think you have me confused with Teratos, who is actually an attending at one of the AUC sites in Baltimore. As he is currently there, perhaps he will address this specific point.

having chosen to go to England to specifically get a 4 month head start on my fellow classmates, and having had a wonderful time there ( and also learning quite a bit of clinical medicine ) I have always been an advocate ( or at least have recommended it as a good alternative to waiting for a US slot ...or moving between various US sites ) of going to England for 3rd year

[teratos]

That was about a year ago. Frankly, now that I am an attending, I am not really in tune with the number of student spots and who fills them. As a resident, I helped coordinate the student program. My feeling is that more recently, the spots have been filled. G

[wifeofDr2b]

Thanks for pointing out it was teratos, FLK. I just edited my above post.


Prior to these situations, it seems that students who elected to go to England or Ireland did so to avoid waiting for US Spots. But as it may end up...given the discussions we've had with 5th semesters, even the spots in England or Ireland may have a wait. So it won't just be those wanting to stay in the US waiting around for spots.

[microphage]

That was about a year ago. Frankly, now that I am an attending, I am not really in tune with the number of student spots and who fills them. As a resident, I helped coordinate the student program. My feeling is that more recently, the spots have been filled. G

And all the attending powers that go with it?! So you can wave your light gun around and open spots appear for Valuemd AUC students?!?!?!?


:idea: :idea: :idea:

[grace]

We'vePhil Green and Victor ???

Victor Hidalgo

[FLK]

Thanks for pointing out it was teratos, FLK. I just edited my above post.


Prior to these situations, it seems that students who elected to go to England or Ireland did so to avoid waiting for US Spots. But as it may end up...given the discussions we've had with 5th semesters, even the spots in England or Ireland may have a wait. So it won't just be those wanting to stay in the US waiting around for spots.

It doesn't make sense to me to make people wait for their score.
if you pass the shelf exam and take step one, you should be permitted to start 3rd year.

I took step one in my 3rd week of surgery ( my first clinical rotation )
Funny thing was that just 3 weeks in the hospital learning clinical medicine was a tremendous asset on step one as I was better able to apply basic science into the format of the exam

[microphage]

Thanks for pointing out it was teratos, FLK. I just edited my above post.


Prior to these situations, it seems that students who elected to go to England or Ireland did so to avoid waiting for US Spots. But as it may end up...given the discussions we've had with 5th semesters, even the spots in England or Ireland may have a wait. So it won't just be those wanting to stay in the US waiting around for spots.

It doesn't make sense to me to make people wait for their score.
if you pass the shelf exam and take step one, you should be permitted to start 3rd year.

I took step one in my 3rd week of surgery ( my first clinical rotation )
Funny thing was that just 3 weeks in the hospital learning clinical medicine was a tremendous asset on step one as I was better able to apply basic science into the format of the exam

Well the policy is that you can start your cores in England/Ireland before your step 1 scores but this is the last 5th semester class that can do this since they are changing the rules to require ALL students to have passing step 1 scores prior to starting their clinicals(UK and US-even psych rotations )

[FLK]

I don't know who that policy benefits.

people that are going to pass, will pass and don't need to spend all that time waiting for their score.

people that are going to fail, will fail anyway and probably screw around in the time they are waiting for their scores.


definately puts pressure on people to finish in time since you waste time waiting for your scores.

how long is the turn-around these days to get your scores?
I remember waiting about 3 months

[teratos]

Scores now come in 2 to 3 weeks. G

[FLK]

so what's the big freaking deal with that?

we waited 3 months.
2-3 weeks.....get some sun. rest. have a cocktail.
sleep in for a week.

I thought people were having to wait months. a few weeks is nothing

[wifeofDr2b]

The waiting for the scores to get back is understood by most of the people we have talked to. That is not even in effect now but the problem is that the last semester students are building up/rolling over onto the current semester students ready to start their clinicals...and they are having to wait for spots to open up.

Once they enforce the rule that you need your score in order to start....which you obviously are waiting for...you may STILL have to wait for a spot to come open even though you are ready to go. So you are looking at longer than the time neeed to just get your score back. The length of the wait depends on the start dates at sites, number of students "ready to go", and the number of sites AUC has, which at this point--according to what we are hearing--is not enough for the students, since the number in each semester is increasing.

[FLK]

gotcha

still a few weeks beats the old scheme where if you wanted to go to the USA you had to wait several months

just go to England/Ireland and get 3rd year over ASAP

[wifeofDr2b]

Scores now come in 2 to 3 weeks. G


Here's the quote from Phil Green's written response taken from the AUC Newsletter last semester regarding the timeline:

"Historically Step 1 results are back in 3-4 weeks and the Clinical Office must have minimum of 3-4 weeks to notify the site of your assignment thus the 8 week gap from test to clinical start."

Based on this information, students will at least have the min. 8 week wait. Adding in the fact that the sites could all be filled would make this wait even longer. Also, considering that the majority students take an average of 4-6 weeks to prepare for Step 1, you can see where semesters are running into each other. This is why some are suggesting there should be a set time by which one should have their exam completed.

[levator]

The waiting for the scores to get back is understood by most of the people we have talked to. That is not even in effect now but the problem is that the last semester students are building up/rolling over onto the current semester students ready to start their clinicals...and they are having to wait for spots to open up.

Once they enforce the rule that you need your score in order to start....which you obviously are waiting for...you may STILL have to wait for a spot to come open even though you are ready to go. So you are looking at longer than the time neeed to just get your score back. The length of the wait depends on the start dates at sites, number of students "ready to go", and the number of sites AUC has, which at this point--according to what we are hearing--is not enough for the students, since the number in each semester is increasing.

the numbers are going up like crazy as far as i am concerned.

the semester before me had 100, my class started with 55, the semester after my class had 140 or so, then 80 and this semester's new class had about 70. the anatomy dept. is expecting about 165 new students in the fall.

the kicker is: my class started with 55. we lost about 5-7 i believe in the course of the time. when i went to the registrar's office to check class ranking, they told me that there were 64 people in my class. i was surprised. even if you loose people along the way, your class will accumulate a fair number. apparently from what i am hearing, SGA made some noise this past week and they have set things into motion. i dont know all the details but i am glad they took action that was heard. apparently people at the highest levels of the school are moving into action to fix the situation. i am hoping that all this is a temporary inconvenience for all of us.

[microphage]

the numbers are going up like crazy as far as i am concerned.

the semester before me had 100, my class started with 55, the semester after my class had 140 or so, then 80 and this semester's new class had about 70. the anatomy dept. is expecting about 165 new students in the fall.

the kicker is: my class started with 55. we lost about 5-7 i believe in the course of the time. when i went to the registrar's office to check class ranking, they told me that there were 64 people in my class. i was surprised. even if you loose people along the way, your class will accumulate a fair number. apparently from what i am hearing, SGA made some noise this past week and they have set things into motion. i dont know all the details but i am glad they took action that was heard. apparently people at the highest levels of the school are moving into action to fix the situation. i am hoping that all this is a temporary inconvenience for all of us.

Overall, the numbers are going up way too much. It needs to be set in relation to the number of clinical spots we have(and not at the level we "intend" to have).

Wow, it's cool that your class size went up since that means the number of people going into the top quarter=honor roll will increase. As far as our class is concerned.....

Started with: 126 or so
Currently: 93

:roll:

[YODA]

No one is bring up the issue of making the match!!!

This is somthing that has me really worked up, I was under the impression when i enrolled in this school that not only was there a clinical site in my backyard (Houma) and that there would be plenty of sites but that even though I started in jan. i would be able to make the match date.

Now it looks like, with the declining number of clinical spots that it will be dang near impossible to make the match if you leave the island in Aug.

if you look at the long run, not only will i have to support myself for several months while i wait for the next match to roll around but i will be losing money cause i will not get my first paycheck for one more year, example: Say with the specility i am chosing you make 300K your first year out of residency, if your match is delayed by a year you lose that potential first year salary, every year you delay the match you lose a years worth of salary. and i will have to start paying back loans as soon as i graduate even though i won't enter a residency for several months up to a year. So i am getting ticked off cause the way the school is currently running the clinical sites is going to significantly affect my pocket book!!!

as the others would say RANT OFF.

This is just the way i see it from a money stand point, it is easy to understand why a large number of students are considering transfering, even though i dont many of them will, it should scare the admin that the students are even considering it.

I still have a year left on the rock, and i am praying to God, Allah, Budda, touchdown Jesus and several voodoo idols that the school will get this strightened out before i get to 5th.

As for the outgoing students, i wish the best for yall, and i hope that you will be able to make the match

YODA

[PAC]

Yoda,
You have brought up every point that myself and several others have brought up to the faculty.
One thing that actually speaks well of the school is that the spots are in more demand now because the step one pass rate for first time takers has went up a lot.
Our class is feeling some pressure for the 2006 match but we are confident that the problems are being resolved as we speak. I know no one likes to be uncertain but i think that by the time you get to 5th semester you will have absolutely no problems making the match.
PAC

[AUCMD2006]

around lately lots of last minute meetings wel see what they come up with. attrition rate has gone down presumably because students have betrter scores. april 2003 had a 25% attrition while december 2003 had 9%. additionaly a lot of people from the december 2003 class took forever to take step one which strted this disaster to begin with pitty the school didn't see this coming and now has to scramble now. also apparentlyt 1st time pass has gone up latest rumor i heard was that only 10 people failed last two semesters. don't know how that rates on the ** meter but it may be a reflection of kaplan...

who knows

[AUCMD2006]

around lately lots of last minute meetings wel see what they come up with. attrition rate has gone down presumably because students have betrter scores. april 2003 had a 25% attrition while december 2003 had 9%. additionaly a lot of people from the december 2003 class took forever to take step one which strted this disaster to begin with pitty the school didn't see this coming and now has to scramble now. also apparentlyt 1st time pass has gone up latest rumor i heard was that only 10 people failed last two semesters. don't know how that rates on the ** meter but it may be a reflection of kaplan...

who knows

[MushieCookie]

this issue is being resolved. At least there is talk about it....a victory in itself.

Some of you say 'don't worry'...I'll stop worrying with I see evidence that something has been done, not just when they 'start talking'.

Hopefully this will all be all straightened out soon....but don't hold your breath for it to be in the "near future".

[grace]

Well the policy is that you can start your cores in England/Ireland before your step 1 scores but this is the last 5th semester class that can do this since they are changing the rules to require ALL students to have passing step 1 scores prior to starting their clinicals(UK and US-even psych rotations )

Yes, the AUC board of directors voted that as of January 1, 2005 all students must have taken Step 1 and passed, but Dr. Schnatz told me that the UK sites will still allow students to start without their scores.

Eventually AUC would like all students to have scores before starting clinicals to be as much like U.S. schools as possible, but we are still in transition.

[anencephalic]

Well the policy is that you can start your cores in England/Ireland before your step 1 scores but this is the last 5th semester class that can do this since they are changing the rules to require ALL students to have passing step 1 scores prior to starting their clinicals(UK and US-even psych rotations )

Yes, the AUC board of directors voted that as of January 1, 2005 all students must have taken Step 1 and passed, but Dr. Schnatz told me that the UK sites will still allow students to start without their scores.

Eventually AUC would like all students to have scores before starting clinicals to be as much like U.S. schools as possible, but we are still in transition.

Did Dr. Schnatz really advise that? I thought it was a new NATIONAL regulation that went into effect this past January stipulating that an individual must have a step one score BEFORE they could start clinicals (even Psych rotations)...I would think that no school could make exemptions to this rule. Any clarification?

Aloha,

[PAC]

The way i understood it was that a student must have sat for step one before going to England. They would consider letting you go ahead and start without an official score report with the hopes that you will pass. If for some reason you do fail step one they will not make you come back to the U.S. , they will allow you to finish clinicals in England first. This will happen only this semester due to the large number of students trying to make the 2006 match.
PAC

[grace]

Yes, the AUC board of directors voted that as of January 1, 2005 all students must have taken Step 1 and passed, but Dr. Schnatz told me that the UK sites will still allow students to start without their scores.

Eventually AUC would like all students to have scores before starting clinicals to be as much like U.S. schools as possible, but we are still in transition.

Did Dr. Schnatz really advise that? I thought it was a new NATIONAL regulation that went into effect this past January stipulating that an individual must have a step one score BEFORE they could start clinicals (even Psych rotations)...I would think that no school could make exemptions to this rule. Any clarification?

Aloha,


Dr. Schnatz was very careful in his advise because he didn't want to be misquoted. He referred to a statement made by Dr. Tillett, I believe, who is the head director of UK clinical sites for AUC. I guess Dr. Tillett stated that he knew about the new rule AUC had in place about not starting clinicals without scores, but he said he wouldn't turn any students down.

In regards to a national regulation going into effect this past January, I know nothing about that. I only know that AUC has been stating for years that they were going to instill that rule, but up to this point nothing has changed. My question is if there was a national rule that effected AUC why haven't things changed yet? However, we're talking about AUC so it doesn't surprise me. :lol:

[wifeofDr2b]

The way i understood it was that a student must have sat for step one before going to England.
PAC

That is the current policy at AUC but starting Jan 05, AUC says all students must also have a passing score back before starting any of their clinicals anywhere.

We had always heard that AUC has been saying this for years....but b/c of a new national policy, it will strictly be enforced starting Jan 05. We haven't heard anything else about this national policy...how true or untrue it is. We also have heard that sites in England and UK said they will still accept students w/o scores...but 1) like Jon mentioed, if this is a national policy how can they bend the rules and 2) if AUC is making this their own policy, it would almost be playing with fire trying to break their rules...since they have final say if you graduate or not.

[IDreamOfMedicine]

long waiting list on clinical spots huh? wow i guess the school shouldn't accept more kids than it can handle...interesting

[anencephalic]

long waiting list on clinical spots huh? wow i guess the school shouldn't accept more kids than it can handle...interesting

For profit = desire for increased revenue = increased intake of students without the foresight of where to put them when they leave basic sciences.

Growing pains? Administration has to get this situation under control and I am definitely glad to hear that SGA and the current 5th semesters made their voices clearly heard to the AUC "higher-ups" who are hopefully trying to resolve this unfortunate situation as soon as possible.

Aloha,

[DrShikima]

long waiting list on clinical spots huh? wow i guess the school shouldn't accept more kids than it can handle...interesting

For profit = desire for increased revenue = increased intake of students without the foresight of where to put them when they leave basic sciences.

Growing pains? Administration has to get this situation under control and I am definitely glad to hear that SGA and the current 5th semesters made their voices clearly heard to the AUC "higher-ups" who are hopefully trying to resolve this unfortunate situation as soon as possible.

Aloha,

Heck, I don't mind that it's for profit but I'd also like to see (hear?) what my money is going for. Ok, fine, the school is for profit, I don't have a problem with it being as such, however, I would rather the school tell me it is going for a new lexus for all employee's at MEIO or whatever (as long as it was the truth) rather than the administration treating us like children.
Bottom point, if tuition increases, expect the client (students in this case) to expect an appreciable increase in student services (more and better classroom space/seating (damn those desks hurt your a$$ after lecture all day), increasing clinicals sites (doesn't have to exponential growth but each clinical site gained should contain ALL cores as electives can easily be set-up on your own, paying faculty what they're worth and if they're good doing what it takes to keep them on staff, etc, etc, etc).

Rant off.

[anencephalic]

Heck, I don't mind that it's for profit but I'd also like to see (hear?) what my money is going for. Ok, fine, the school is for profit, I don't have a problem with it being as such, however, I would rather the school tell me it is going for a new lexus for all employee's at MEIO or whatever (as long as it was the truth) rather than the administration treating us like children.
Bottom point, if tuition increases, expect the client (students in this case) to expect an appreciable increase in student services (more and better classroom space/seating (darn those desks hurt your a$$ after lecture all day), increasing clinicals sites (doesn't have to exponential growth but each clinical site gained should contain ALL cores as electives can easily be set-up on your own, paying faculty what they're worth and if they're good doing what it takes to keep them on staff, etc, etc, etc).

Rant off.

Since rrod coined the phrase, here's his props"

RRANT ON!

Here's some food for thought. More recently established schools (such as SABA and St. Eustatius) can provide US clinicals for all of their students. I know, I know....but AUC is bigger and they have fewer students. Consider that ROSS and SGU (entering classes of 300+ at both schools?)can also provide US clinicals for all of their students (AUC, ROSS, and SGU were founded within a few years of each other).

RRANT off.

Aloha,

[DrShikima]

Heck, I don't mind that it's for profit but I'd also like to see (hear?) what my money is going for. Ok, fine, the school is for profit, I don't have a problem with it being as such, however, I would rather the school tell me it is going for a new lexus for all employee's at MEIO or whatever (as long as it was the truth) rather than the administration treating us like children.
Bottom point, if tuition increases, expect the client (students in this case) to expect an appreciable increase in student services (more and better classroom space/seating (darn those desks hurt your a$$ after lecture all day), increasing clinicals sites (doesn't have to exponential growth but each clinical site gained should contain ALL cores as electives can easily be set-up on your own, paying faculty what they're worth and if they're good doing what it takes to keep them on staff, etc, etc, etc).

Rant off.

Since rrod coined the phrase, here's his props"

RRANT ON!

Here's some food for thought. More recently established schools (such as SABA and St. Eustatius) can provide US clinicals for all of their students. I know, I know....but AUC is bigger and they have fewer students. Consider that ROSS and SGU (entering classes of 300+ at both schools?)can also provide US clinicals for all of their students (AUC, ROSS, and SGU were founded within a few years of each other).

RRANT off.

Aloha,

Props Jon, Props.

That's what I'm talking about. The administration (which includes the **** family -- Dr. **** on island and his 2 sons off island) have a responsibility to ensure that all the students needs are met with the least amount of headache. I would have more respect from the current administration if they would come clean and were forthright about current situations.

So, I beg the question yet again, what appreciable increases in student services will we get with the increase in tuition? ($1500 is just one years time).

Wondertwin powers, activate rant off!

[FLK]

Heck, I don't mind that it's for profit but I'd also like to see (hear?) what my money is going for. Ok, fine, the school is for profit, I don't have a problem with it being as such, however, I would rather the school tell me it is going for a new lexus for all employee's at MEIO or whatever (as long as it was the truth) rather than the administration treating us like children.
Bottom point, if tuition increases, expect the client (students in this case) to expect an appreciable increase in student services (more and better classroom space/seating (darn those desks hurt your a$$ after lecture all day), increasing clinicals sites (doesn't have to exponential growth but each clinical site gained should contain ALL cores as electives can easily be set-up on your own, paying faculty what they're worth and if they're good doing what it takes to keep them on staff, etc, etc, etc).

Rant off.

Since rrod coined the phrase, here's his props"

RRANT ON!

Here's some food for thought. More recently established schools (such as SABA and St. Eustatius) can provide US clinicals for all of their students. I know, I know....but AUC is bigger and they have fewer students. Consider that ROSS and SGU (entering classes of 300+ at both schools?)can also provide US clinicals for all of their students (AUC, ROSS, and SGU were founded within a few years of each other).

RRANT off.

Aloha,

well the difference is that for many years, there was zero focus by emperor ****, on securing a well-rounded US block of clinical sites ( the way that Ross di dit) They went for England instead, which I am sure was to save money
Look at NY approval. AUC could have had this when Ross did, but I guess that wasn't important to them.
A lot of Ross slots were developed a long time ago

Now AUC is trying to catch up with smarter people in control, but they are behind.

Still, lots of alumni out there that survived even before the new influx of talent, so in the end, no harm

[AUCMD2006]

"long waiting list on clinical spots huh? wow i guess the school shouldn't accept more kids than it can handle...interesting"


i guess in the end its better than a long waiting list at denied license appeal hearings eh? :lol:

[IDreamOfMedicine]

"long waiting list on clinical spots huh? wow i guess the school shouldn't accept more kids than it can handle...interesting"


i guess in the end its better than a long waiting list at denied license appeal hearings eh? :lol:

tru or as long as the line to the brothel :D

[teratos]

tru or as long as the line to the brothel :D

The hotel where the school moved after the volcano became a brother AFTER AUC moved to their new campus. I think it has since folded. They used to have a website where you could pick your vacation package and choose the number of "lolita encounters" you wanted per day. It was hysterical. Another thing that was kind of funny was that for a time some of our classes were held over Lightning Casino. "If a guy comes in with a ruptured AAA, what are the odds that he will survive" The odds of getting a license from AUC, on the other hand, are excellent. G

[USMLEnewbie]

Is this still true? Are there still not enought clinical sites for students?

[DrShikima]

Is this still true? Are there still not enought clinical sites for students?

Troll Doll.

[julestx]

Someone has drudged up a conversation from last year... :P

[AUCMD2006]

last year was a huge problem due to so many passing step one first time and more being admitted. of the 20 or so people that keep in touch about 15 have passed it within the least two months and are all in rotations, the rest are taking it within the next month.

maybe current 5th semnesters can list the spots they have, they should have the bottle neck cleared up by now right?

[Scott1981]

im just happy that the class sizes ahead of me in 5th and 4th now are small just like my 3rd semester class. there should not be any bottle necks by the time i get there. god help the second semester class with their 180 students. however, there are 5 ny hospitals that will be online then to rectify the situation.

[StudentAUC.]

Alright...so we here that there are many clinical spots and many of them are open for the most part (just depends on location). I was having a converation with a 5th semester today in between games of basketball on the courts and he was saying that there are about 8 clinical spots open for his class in the US (California) and about 24ish spots in europe. There are 60 or so people in his class, and to make it worse the spots that are open are being taken by students who have already left the island and taken step I's...which means that the current 5th semesters will be out of spots and will have to wait.

He also stated that that would mean they would not receive financial aid for that time period and would have to start repaying some loans due to the time period they'd be out of school. It would also effect their 2006 residency match where they would more than likely have to wait till 2007 to match.

I understand that there has been someone hired above Phil Green and will be assisting him in all these matters.

A 'mind opening' statement he made was that when he was in my position (3rd semester), he thought it would all just kind of fix itself with all the time until he had to worry about it. Either by fixing the current system if it needs being fixed, add more clinical sites, or add more clinical starting times for students needing spots.

I'm not sure how the whole process works. I know it basically comes down to whoever takes the step I first gets spots first if they're available.

Are the current stats on current clinical sites true? Why is it that we cannot do core roations at hospitals that AUC has 'certified' for elective sites? (especially if there aren't enough spots according to what I got from my conversation today).

So...that comes to the final point. If everyone says there are enough clinical spots open for everyone...where is all this info coming from that I heard today straight from the mouth of a 5th semester?

Any thoughts or input on this matter?

Oh...also...are core roation spots available throughout the year or only once or twice a year? for example, If a certain core rotation lasts 10 weeks...are students entering these rotations every 10 weeks after the current students in them leave?

Thanks.

Hey, I try to warn you guys about this stuff, but people get mad and assume I'm failing out of school, a hater of AUC, etc. *shrug*. Guess sometimes you just have to see for yourself...... :arrow:

[USMLEnewbie]

What is a troll doll?

I am deciding between SGU, AUC, and Ross, so I just want to get as much information as possible.

[tRmedic21]

Hey, I try to warn you guys about this stuff, but people get mad and assume I'm failing out of school, a hater of AUC, etc. *shrug*. Guess sometimes you just have to see for yourself...... :arrow:

Oh, you poor wittle thing! How awful you must feel! You want a pat on the head and a glass of warm milk?

Seriously, the martyr act is just old. :roll:

[Knight007]

I've been following the valueMD forums for almost a year...and I have
to admit if it wasn't for the trolls trying to malign AUC and others...
I wouldn't have known much about AUC ..but now i'm applying to it 8)

So to all of you trolls out there..... thanks.. forum wouldnt be the same
without you...LOL.. :wink:

[Scott1981]

Alright...so we here that there are many clinical spots and many of them are open for the most part (just depends on location). I was having a converation with a 5th semester today in between games of basketball on the courts and he was saying that there are about 8 clinical spots open for his class in the US (California) and about 24ish spots in europe. There are 60 or so people in his class, and to make it worse the spots that are open are being taken by students who have already left the island and taken step I's...which means that the current 5th semesters will be out of spots and will have to wait.

He also stated that that would mean they would not receive financial aid for that time period and would have to start repaying some loans due to the time period they'd be out of school. It would also effect their 2006 residency match where they would more than likely have to wait till 2007 to match.

I understand that there has been someone hired above Phil Green and will be assisting him in all these matters.

A 'mind opening' statement he made was that when he was in my position (3rd semester), he thought it would all just kind of fix itself with all the time until he had to worry about it. Either by fixing the current system if it needs being fixed, add more clinical sites, or add more clinical starting times for students needing spots.

I'm not sure how the whole process works. I know it basically comes down to whoever takes the step I first gets spots first if they're available.

Are the current stats on current clinical sites true? Why is it that we cannot do core roations at hospitals that AUC has 'certified' for elective sites? (especially if there aren't enough spots according to what I got from my conversation today).

So...that comes to the final point. If everyone says there are enough clinical spots open for everyone...where is all this info coming from that I heard today straight from the mouth of a 5th semester?

Any thoughts or input on this matter?

Oh...also...are core roation spots available throughout the year or only once or twice a year? for example, If a certain core rotation lasts 10 weeks...are students entering these rotations every 10 weeks after the current students in them leave?

Thanks.

Hey, I try to warn you guys about this stuff, but people get mad and assume I'm failing out of school, a hater of AUC, etc. *shrug*. Guess sometimes you just have to see for yourself...... :arrow:

student auc,

you made an early visit. i would have expected you the begining of next semester to complain about how hard classes were. anyway, you are aware that you quoted what somebody said 7 MONTHS ago. a lot has changed including the imminent opening of 5 news hospitals in NY.

[Audio]

What is a troll doll?

I am deciding between SGU, AUC, and Ross, so I just want to get as much information as possible.


why not Saba ? I only ask because I'm curious to know why people wouldn't want to apply. I'm thinking of Saba and from everything I've learned, it's a pretty good school with a friendly environment. Are there some problems with Saba that I'm not aware of. From what I know, it has some pretty high USMLE pass rates ...higher than AUC and Ross from what I've found , it's much cheaper, and there are no problems getting US clinicals. So, how bout it u AUCers, tell me why Saba sucks so i can maybe get a different perspective!

Regards,

AUdio

[pufbub]

i have heard that st chris has lost key bank loans. is that just st chris, or does that apply to other schools as well? who does auc students get their private loans from? is there any issue with that?

[StudentAUC.]

Hey, I try to warn you guys about this stuff, but people get mad and assume I'm failing out of school, a hater of AUC, etc. *shrug*. Guess sometimes you just have to see for yourself...... :arrow:

Oh, you poor wittle thing! How awful you must feel! You want a pat on the head and a glass of warm milk?

Seriously, the martyr act is just old. :roll:

I don't see how that sounds anything even closs to a "martyr act". Instead of jump on every single one of my posts, why not concentrate on the subject at hand? Good luck in your studies

[AUCMD2006]

saba sucks...i mean its on a freakin volcano!

seriously, students that i've met from there say the school is ok and faculty are cool there just isn't anything to do. i took a couple of them to philipsburg last december to buy a DVD player and they had an order for stuff from their landlord b/c its hard to get things there....so apparently school wise nothing more convinience wise.

[anencephalic]

What is a troll doll?

I am deciding between SGU, AUC, and Ross, so I just want to get as much information as possible.


why not Saba ? I only ask because I'm curious to know why people wouldn't want to apply. I'm thinking of Saba and from everything I've learned, it's a pretty good school with a friendly environment. Are there some problems with Saba that I'm not aware of. From what I know, it has some pretty high USMLE pass rates ...higher than AUC and Ross from what I've found , it's much cheaper, and there are no problems getting US clinicals. So, how bout it u AUCers, tell me why Saba sucks so i can maybe get a different perspective!

Regards,

AUdio


Hello Audio,

SABA does not suck. It's just a different lifestyle. Instead of asking a group of complete strangers, why not ask yourself what's best for you?
Both schools have excellent track records and are established...one's just a few years older. Are you easily distracted? If yes, then AUC and Sint Maarten is not for you. Do you like tranquility, beautiful scenery, or deep diving? How about no casinos to distract you? Go to Saba.

As far as board scores, it is true that Saba SOM's official website has posted some very impressive numbers from recent basic science grads taking Step I...however, to the best of my knowledge, AUC's administration doesn't post the names and scores of their graduates on their webpage (even though we've had some very stellar scores recently).

Ultimately, it's up to you....you mentioned cheaper tuition, friendly environment, and a beautiful island...if that's what's up your alley, then by all means, apply to Saba.

Either program will get you where you want to go with enough hard work and dedication on your part.

My opinon, for what it's worth.

Aloha,

[eyecon82]

sorry for bringing up such an old thread...but do these clinical problems still exist at the school?

[DRDRWMD]

A visit to Saba will enable prospective students to understand what they are getting into. It is rural, but if one is OK with that, it a fine place to live for 5 semesters. I came to AUC requiring McDonalds and other conveniences only to realize everything I do on this island; I could have done on Saba.

[anencephalic]

sorry for bringing up such an old thread...but do these clinical problems still exist at the school?

Not really. The bottlenecks apply for sites like Providence and Kern.

[nl9569]

How exactly DID we loose the Houma site? Especially to Saba? Does it come down to which school is paying the most for the contract? I just don't understand how we could LOOSE clinical sites unless no one was using them or the hospital had a very bad experience with our students.

[georgelucas45]

How exactly DID we loose the Houma site? Especially to Saba? Does it come down to which school is paying the most for the contract? I just don't understand how we could LOOSE clinical sites unless no one was using them or the hospital had a very bad experience with our students.

yea, I know how you feel. I want CA, and Kern always has a long *** waitlist. AUC is getting cheaper and cheaper as far as clinical spots go. SGU has the most money and they throw it around to get the best clinical spots. Since AUC is too cheap to match what other caribbean schools are willing to pay, we lose our sites to the likes of SGU/Ross/Saba. We pick up a lot of NY sites, which is great for the NYers. Sucks for CA/LA people of which there are always quite a few in every class. And since we're in the big class, if we're picky with clinical sites, we may end up missing the match.

[stateofequilibrium]

yea, I know how you feel. I want CA, and Kern always has a long *** waitlist. AUC is getting cheaper and cheaper as far as clinical spots go. SGU has the most money and they throw it around to get the best clinical spots. Since AUC is too cheap to match what other caribbean schools are willing to pay, we lose our sites to the likes of SGU/Ross/Saba. We pick up a lot of NY sites, which is great for the NYers. Sucks for CA/LA people of which there are always quite a few in every class. And since we're in the big class, if we're picky with clinical sites, we may end up missing the match.

I'm not sure about SGU, but it's a heck of a lot easier to get Kern coming from AUC than from Ross. Ross has huge competition for that spot.

[Scott1981]

yea, I know how you feel. I want CA, and Kern always has a long *** waitlist. AUC is getting cheaper and cheaper as far as clinical spots go. SGU has the most money and they throw it around to get the best clinical spots. Since AUC is too cheap to match what other caribbean schools are willing to pay, we lose our sites to the likes of SGU/Ross/Saba. We pick up a lot of NY sites, which is great for the NYers. Sucks for CA/LA people of which there are always quite a few in every class. And since we're in the big class, if we're picky with clinical sites, we may end up missing the match.

ross got downsized at kern, and auc gained more slots there. providence did not renew sgu's slots in michigan and auc benefitted by absorbing those spots. am i missing something?

[nl9569]

I'm not sure what's really going on, I was mostly asking why we lost rotations in Houma. I'm a 3rd semester and as you all know they don't tell us much, so much of what I get may just be speculation but I have always heard that our clinical spots at kern had gone from something like 30 down to 6 and there is always a waiting list to get into both kern and providence. Does anyone have accurate, up to date info on how many spots are open for AUC students at these places every round?

[corvettekid]

Everyone worries about clinical spots here in the US. I had a wonderful experience at Ealing Hospital in England. The teaching was outstanding, many times one on one. They are very focused on diagnostic skills and the H&P. The cost of living in England is more expensive, but you will have a wonderful learning experience and I feel it was well worth it. Going to Ealing is seriously worth considering and you won't have to wait on a spot to open.

[rokshana]

I'm not sure about SGU, but it's a heck of a lot easier to get Kern coming from AUC than from Ross. Ross has huge competition for that spot.

there are only 6-10 sgu students per year at kern- i hear there are far more auc students there.