Hippocratic Oath??

[CptPlanet]

Hey all,

I was just wondering if doctors still take this and if so, when? I was thinking that perhaps at the White Coat Ceremony, but that seems a little too early into the game...

[Nimitt]

I believe they still do take the oath in some form. I dont know how many take the exact original oath but most if not all schools still take the oath in one form or another at graduation. However when you are at the white coat ceremony you will still take an oath but it will be different designed for the beginning of your medical school years.

Nimitt
4th year
SGU SOM

[stephew]

Hey all,

I was just wondering if doctors still take this and if so, when? I was thinking that perhaps at the White Coat Ceremony, but that seems a little too early into the game...no there is an sgu specific other taken from the maimondenese (sp?) oath which is really more relevant. the hippocratic oath, if you look at it, really doesnt speak to modern physicians above the first couple of phrases. You take it at graduation.

[emt036]

We actually recited the SGU-specific "Professional Commitment" at our white coat ceremony this past term. If I can find an electronic copy of it somewhere, I will post it.

[Picard]

Well, you can't really swear to Hippocratic Oath because it violates HIPAA among other patient rights... so, you will be fined or jailed if you stick with the Hipporatic Oath...

P 8)

[stephew]

it also promises that you'll teach the sons of your mentor medicine for free. Hear that SGU? Georgetown? All you private med schools?

[ribosome]

states that you cannot do surgery or perform abortions....See below.

One of the visiting profs during medical ethics 3rd term (Bob Veatch from the Kennedy Institute of Ethics at Georgetown) gives a nice review of the various oaths used by physicians over the last couple of thousand years...Or at least he used to when I attended SGU...


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http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/doctors/oath_classical.html
Hippocratic Oath -- Classical Version

I swear by Apollo Physician and Asclepius and Hygieia and Panaceia and all the gods and goddesses, making them my witnesses, that I will fulfil according to my ability and judgment this oath and this covenant:

To hold him who has taught me this art as equal to my parents and to live my life in partnership with him, and if he is in need of money to give him a share of mine, and to regard his offspring as equal to my brothers in male lineage and to teach them this art - if they desire to learn it - without fee and covenant; to give a share of precepts and oral instruction and all the other learning to my sons and to the sons of him who has instructed me and to pupils who have signed the covenant and have taken an oath according to the medical law, but no one else.

I will apply dietetic measures for the benefit of the sick according to my ability and judgment; I will keep them from harm and injustice.

I will neither give a deadly drug to anybody who asked for it, nor will I make a suggestion to this effect. Similarly I will not give to a woman an abortive remedy. In purity and holiness I will guard my life and my art.

I will not use the knife, not even on sufferers from stone, but will withdraw in favor of such men as are engaged in this work.

Whatever houses I may visit, I will come for the benefit of the sick, remaining free of all intentional injustice, of all mischief and in particular of sexual relations with both female and male persons, be they free or slaves.

What I may see or hear in the course of the treatment or even outside of the treatment in regard to the life of men, which on no account one must spread abroad, I will keep to myself, holding such things shameful to be spoken about.

If I fulfil this oath and do not violate it, may it be granted to me to enjoy life and art, being honored with fame among all men for all time to come; if I transgress it and swear falsely, may the opposite of all this be my lot.


Translation from the Greek by Ludwig Edelstein. From The Hippocratic Oath: Text, Translation, and Interpretation, by Ludwig Edelstein. Baltimore: Johns Hopkins Press, 1943.

[wolfvgang22]

states that you cannot do surgery or perform abortions....See below.

In regard to surgery, physicians never did that back then, it was left to people who specialized in surgery, like barbers. (imagine that! Back then, same guy cuts hair, pulls teeth, and does surgery. But doesn't practice medicine.)

Similarly, IM defers to surgeons today for surgery. The difference today is that everyone is trained as a physician first.

But in spirit, I think the Hippocratic Oath is correct, in that physicians shouldn't do what they aren't trained to do.

[ribosome]

Your point is valid for major surgeries. But I, as an internist aka 'phyisician" have performed many procedures that require minor surgical techniques. Skin biopsies, removal of superficial lipomas, removal of colonic polyps, insertions of central lines, suturing lacerations that require debridement in the ER, etc. all require a physician (not necessarily a surgeon) to "use the knife" so to speak.

Since Henry VIII physicians and surgeons have been combined in one regulatory class. While history still refers to the differences (Columbia University College of Physician & Surgeons), we train in both.

As a student I always knew that I wanted to do internal medicine. If I would have lived by the principles of the Hippocratic Oath, then I couldn't have completed rotations in surgery, ob-gyn, family practice, emergency medicine, gastroenterology,and even outpatient IM based on the Oath's surgical prohibitions.