Residency and what not

[wytosk]

Hi everyone, this is my first post!!

Although my question applies to all foreign med schools, i havebeen looking at AUC the most so I figured to ask you guys.

Do all states accept AUC grads into residency programs? Also, for example, if Cali didnt accept AUC grads, does that mean that even if you do your residency in like oregon can u still not practice medicine in Cali???

Thanks to any and all who can help.

ps anyaerospace engineers out there?!?!?!?

[FLK]

Hi everyone, this is my first post!!

Although my question applies to all foreign med schools, i havebeen looking at AUC the most so I figured to ask you guys.

Do all states accept AUC grads into residency programs? Also, for example, if Cali didnt accept AUC grads, does that mean that even if you do your residency in like oregon can u still not practice medicine in Cali???

Thanks to any and all who can help.

ps anyaerospace engineers out there?!?!?!?

I'm not sure if AUC grads have done a residency in all states. Wyoming has only 1 residency in FP, so I doubt anybody has done it.

as for the Cali part, if you attend a school NOT approved by Cali, then yes you can never practice there. The problem ( well not for us ) that I see is since Cali seems to be so comprehensive, other states might adopt their "approval " list as their own. I think New Mexico already does this.

Why on Earth people would plonk down 100-200K on a medical school where one or more states is disallowed is a total mystery to me. As an IMG, you already have some limited options in terms of residency and career moves vs. US grads so why make the gap even wider.

just go to any school with a long track record and lots of alumni already practicing

[RajPatel]

The reason some people pay 100K for a med school that's not approved everywhere is because that's their only option and still a considerably better one than any alternatives (like not going at all).

[FLK]

it's not like getting into Ross SGU or AUC takes mountains of credentials.

anybody that can't gain admission to one of these schools ought to think twice about another career

[hope2bdoc]

my bad

[RajPatel]

As recently as a few years ago, that statement would have been correct, as many have attested to on this board. However, this is no longer the case, another fact confirmed numerous times all over the place here.

The combination of the economy's dismal state, the outsourcing phenomenon, the wave of baby boomers set to retire and the anticipated corresponding severe shortage of physicians.........all have combined to produce a sharp spike in apps both domestically and offshore and driven what were formerly very liberal acceptance rates down significantly.

I personally feel it's inappropriate to suggest to the prospective applicant that the appropriate manner in which to combat these cyclical factors is to cut and run. That's neither productive nor warranted. But that's just my personal opinion and I don't begrudge anyone their view and realize that opinions will differ based on individual experiences.

[bookite]

If the standards have been raised it's not by much. I know people who have been accepted with GPAs in the mid twos and MCATs in the teens. SGU standards aren’t that high either. Saw a student with a 3.2 GPA and a 21 on the MCAT gain admission. These standards are far from our US counterparts. So I think they are still providing opportunity for those who desire to obtain our goals.

[wolfvgang22]

Why on Earth people would plonk down 100-200K on a medical school where one or more states is disallowed is a total mystery to me.


Maybe we like another school better for various reasons and don't care to practice in CA.

Anyway, looks like Saba and St. Matts will get CA approval soon now that CA has done the site visits.

just go to any school with a long track record and lots of alumni already practicing

Absolutely.

anybody that can't gain admission to one of these schools ought to think twice about another career

If I accepted statements like that I'd still be flipping burgers. Why would somebody say something like this? Out of sincere concern for your future? Or is it something else...

[teratos]

Anyway, looks like Saba and St. Matts will get CA approval soon now that CA has done the site visits.

Let's wait and see what happens. They do have a reputation for being tough. I do hope they get it, though. G

[FLK]

Why on Earth people would plonk down 100-200K on a medical school where one or more states is disallowed is a total mystery to me.


Maybe we like another school better for various reasons and don't care to practice in CA.

Anyway, looks like Saba and St. Matts will get CA approval soon now that CA has done the site visits.

just go to any school with a long track record and lots of alumni already practicing

Absolutely.

anybody that can't gain admission to one of these schools ought to think twice about another career

If I accepted statements like that I'd still be flipping burgers. Why would somebody say something like this? Out of sincere concern for your future? Or is it something else...


Let's face facts : AUC, Ross, SGU offer fairly easy admissions compared to US medical schools.
There must be some checks and balances in admissions standards.
Schools that admit everybody with a pulse adn the ability to pay do a favor to who? the student with the very poor qualifications who pays 50K before flunking out?
the student with the marginal ability that fails the USMLE 6 times?

I stand by my statement that somebody that can't ( or won't ) make the minumum standards to get admitted to AUC, really needs to consider doing something else, like selling shoes.

I do not count people that have the ability to attend AUC etc, and choose another school for the lower costs. that's different. I am referring to people that apply to places like AUC or Ross and get shot down.

Time for those folks to do an inventory of their abilities before some for-profit offshore school takes their money , and they end up defaulting on their loans.

maybe somebody has the data of successful practicing US physicians that were denied admittance to AUC , ROSS, SGU and became successful some place else.
My guess is that this number is far lower than the people that met the standards for admittion to AUC ROSS SGU

[RajPatel]

I have noticed from the time I started coming here that the ratio of views to posts for any thread is always at least around 15-1 and sometimes much higher. This means there are scores of people who prefer to read but not speak, which in turns means that posters should be aware they are speaking to many more people than just the ones actively taking part.

I think if one truly put forth his/her best effort in undergrad and mcat and all that, and still failed to gain admission to AUC/Ross, then definitely a re-evaluation is not only in order but absolutely crucial.

However, if the reason for the rejection is something that can be remedied or already has been remedied (like lack of diligence during undergrad, mcat, etc), then I would argue selling shoes is not the optimal way to fulfill one's potential. To suggest otherwise really runs counter to the purpose of this forum.

[stateofequilibrium]

If the standards have been raised it's not by much. I know people who have been accepted with GPAs in the mid twos and MCATs in the teens. SGU standards aren’t that high either. Saw a student with a 3.2 GPA and a 21 on the MCAT gain admission. These standards are far from our US counterparts. So I think they are still providing opportunity for those who desire to obtain our goals.

Raw numbers don't tell much.

[FLK]

I think if one truly put forth his/her best effort in undergrad and mcat and all that, and still failed to gain admission to AUC/Ross, then definitely a re-evaluation is not only in order but absolutely crucial.
.

that's what I said.

sadly, there are plenty of places to still take your money

[wolfvgang22]

I stand by my statement that somebody that can't ( or won't ) make the minumum standards to get admitted to AUC, really needs to consider doing something else, like selling shoes.

Time for those folks to do an inventory of their abilities before some for-profit offshore school takes their money , and they end up defaulting on their loans.

maybe somebody has the data of successful practicing US physicians that were denied admittance to AUC , ROSS, SGU and became successful some place else.
My guess is that this number is far lower than the people that met the standards for admittion to AUC ROSS SGU

This reply isn't just directed toward FLK, it's directed to everyone with the same elitist attitude, from medical boards on down. Maybe I shouldn't be taking this so personally, because I could've gone to AUC or Ross or SGU, but chose not too.

But guess what? We're all adults here. If I lose money, it's on me.
I can do without individuals or organizations trying to protect or advise me or anyone else from defaulting on loans by advising that we "do an inventroy of abilities". That's just insulting.

It was the same story when my family first came to this country; others told them "stay here where you have a home, relatives, a job...."
But like them I say:
"D-mn the odds, full speed ahead!"

Just let us take our shot at getting our piece of the pie....medicine or bust!
That's the American way.

[teratos]

But guess what? We're all adults here. If I lose money it's on me.

Many people don't see it that way. You can now sue your stockbroker if you lost money...I saw the commercial on TV. Also saw one for people injured by NAIL GUNS. That's right, I said nail guns. Seems to me these things are dangerous from the get-go, but not everyone is smart enough to see it. G

[anencephalic]

But guess what? We're all adults here. If I lose money it's on me.

Many people don't see it that way. You can now sue your stockbroker if you lost money...I saw the commercial on TV. Also saw one for people injured by NAIL GUNS. That's right, I said nail guns. Seems to me these things are dangerous from the get-go, but not everyone is smart enough to see it. G

Welcome to the land of the litiginous! If you can sue corporate America for spilling coffee in your lap or burning down your house with pop tarts while you went to the grocery store, should any of this be a surprise?

ALoha,

[FLK]

[quote=FLK]
This reply isn't just directed toward FLK, it's directed to everyone with the same elitist attitude, from medical boards on down. .

I am not sure that advising people who can't make the minimum standards of some off-shore medical schools to take an inventory on their abilities, prior to spending money at a place that would admit a carrot, to be elitist.

I would advise Stevie Wonder to avoid applying to American eagle for a pilot's position too. I see no difference, but I have made my point.

[wolfvgang22]

I guess it just goes to show there's two sides to every coin.....

Now, where's that darn nail gun gone.....?? :lol:

[levator]

[quote=FLK]
This reply isn't just directed toward FLK, it's directed to everyone with the same elitist attitude, from medical boards on down. .

I am not sure that advising people who can't make the minimum standards of some off-shore medical schools to take an inventory on their abilities, prior to spending money at a place that would admit a carrot, to be elitist.

I would advise Stevie Wonder to avoid applying to American eagle for a pilot's position too. I see no difference, but I have made my point.

people that have been through a foreign medical school or people that are here now have seen first hand the "people" that maybe should not have ever come down here. i am not talking about people that work hard and dont get all the good results they want; and i am not talking about people that messed up in college and needed a second chance. i am talking about people that come here, withdraw from classes repeatedly, dont take anything seriously, party all the time while in the meantime, they accum. a huge debt and before they know it, they are gone back to the states to flip burgers. or people that are not mature enough to take on medical school.... a favorite quote: "Thats an artery!!! What do you mean??? Thats not fair!!!". When i was admitted, there was no strenuous application process. i was glad for that then because i did not have the best mcats. but it wasnt until i came down and saw people failing, dropping like flies around me in first semester, that i realized how many of the "wrong" people were here. One of my anatomy lab partners when i started at auc was repeating anatomy for the second time. he ended up failing it again and having to repeat it a third time. when i started my third semester, he was starting first all over again. one day, he disappeared from the school. I see this every semester because i know each and everyone of the first semester students since i am involved in the anatomy department and the failing out trend has become more obvious since i started. When the T.A's organize the mock practicals for anatomy, i have to put up a sign up sheet for the anatomy class to sign up. I usually leave the exact amount of spaces for the class. as the semester goes on, there are more and more gaps on the sign up sheet. its depressing sometimes. I think what FLK is saying has a good point. the problem with it is that most people will not realize it until its them or a friend of theirs that it happens to after they are here. Usually its a friend that needs a ride to the airport in the middle of the semester because he is going home for good. :roll:

later,

[FLK]

Right.
Look, not everybody has the ability or the desire to become a physician.
I remember many people at AUC that flunked out, and then were able to gain admission to Spartan or some other place
I have no idea what happened to them but my guess is that most are doing something other than medicine.

I think it's not only fair, but necessary to advise to people who cannot achieve the minimum ( and lax ) standards to secure admission even to AUC, that they ought to do a serious inventory of their abilities, and perhaps consider an alternate career.

The USMLE and specialty exams do not descriminate. You either pass or not.
To me anybody that advocates enabling a person to invest lots of time and money, when they probably ought to consider another career, does that individual a great disservice
At least if a person re-evaluates why they failed to make it into AUC, they can try to rectify the problems before heading off to Spartan, etc and not wash out deep in debt.

the schools don't care if somebody flunks out after 32 semesters, or worse, graduates and never apsses the USMLE ...they still get paid

From my days in residency, I remember a PGY1 family practice resident who attended a non-big 3 school. somehow this guy even passed USMLE's and got a residency.
He was so grossly incompetent, he was actually kicked out of the residency about 4 months into the year. ( which anybody that's done any residency knows how hard it is to be fired )

So who did him a favor by admitting him?

[wolfvgang22]

Ok, I'm back with my nail gun!
.....What, you're still talking about this!? :chatter:

I said I have a nail gun!

Who wants to play "Pin the tail on the donkey"?
:-jumprope

[prncs1027]

I personally have not even applied to AUC or any caribbean or US medical schools for that matter. However, I know that I am not going to even bother applying to US medical schools because I know that I will not get in. I will give you guys my complete honesty here. I messed up my freshman year of undergrad...not knowing what i wanted to major in, I ended up taking useless classes and doing miserably in them. Then I was put on probation for that following year for a drop in my gpa due to these classes. During my probation year, my mother had a stroke leaving her paralyzed. So the same year...I had to withdraw from the university both semesters to spend time with my mom and help her go through therapy, it was a very emotional time for her, my dad, and myself. I know that withdrawals look extremely bad on medical school applications, but was it my fault I had to withdraw? Was I not supposed to spend the time with my mom and family in the time of need and while she was in the hosptial lying between life and death for 4 months? That is when I REALIZED I wanted to pursue a career in medicine. However when i realized this, my gpa was already at 2.10. I am vigorously working hard and bringing this up now. I think that caribbean medical schools are a great opportunity for people like myself who realize too late that a career in medicine is what I wanted. Thanks to Caribbean schools, I will get my second chance at life and at pursuing a future education that the US school would never have offered me. US medical schools don't look past the numbers, if they see a 2.1, the application is straight up tossed into the garbage.

YES people will say I wasn't good enough to go to a US medical school. But does it matter what they think? As long as you know you can do it and work hard to acquire your dream, it doesn't matter what anyone else thinks about you. So RajPatel, I don't think you should let what anyone in these forums say about you not getting accepted to AUC get to you, they don't know you as a person and they don't know your history and nor will they know mine. They've just gotten used to bashing on others for their own pleasure. I think med school does that to people sometimes.

[AUCMD2006]

you're right US schools don't look at the numbers but caribbean schools look toomuch at them, at least the bottom line numbers. they don't care about your mom, withdrawing from school or anything other than the coupling of an ability to pay and an empty seat.

you can say you have the drive and desire all you want but actions speak loder than words and no one can understand the amount of work it takes to get through basic science. it is beneficial to prospective students to get honest opinions about what people who have gone through the s*it think it takes to get through. i agree that some basic demosntration of your abilities in undergrad to gain admission to a lax school sucj as ross/auc/sgu is needed but not necessary. so it would be to your benefit to tyake what these people say and even though yoiu don't agree with it try and understand why theu feel that way because there is some truth to it.

finally could everyone please stop saying that these schools are giving you an opportunity! they ain't giving you anything! whatever you get out of then you earn anf fight for.

[options]

I agree that taking risks in life can be necessary to achieve what you want. I attend AUC, and I consider this the biggest risk of my life. Not being a U.S. graduate, I have no guarantee of residency. But because AUC has been around for 27 or more years, publish a match list and USMLE pass rates, and have over 4k grads working in the U.S., I made the decision to come here.

The amount of money I am taking out to attend medical school does not allow me to gamble on a new, unproven school.

I don't understand why you wouldn't want to attend a school that gives you the best chance for success.

[Skipper]

well people want to take a risk than why not.....SMU-DWI---

you can get your MD in 6 weeks....

:lol: :lol:


the skipper