England

[akp]

There has been a rumor that AUC has been accepting to many students and they are not able to facilitate them in second semester so they weed them out in first, is this true? we have also been told that they only have room for 5% to do clinicals in the U.S. and the remainder have to do clinicals in england, and then it is very difficult to practice in the states,is this true?

[microphage]

No, there's no truth in that. People fail out because they don't study. The grades aren't based on a curve so theoretically, everybody can pass but that never happens because 1/4 of the incoming class never realize that they are here to study and not sit on white sandy beachs all day.

If I can make it to 3rd, anybody can.... I'm pretty stupid, just ask my wife.

[WantMD]

I completely agree with microphage. When school starts here, you better hit the ground running because your first exams are three weeks away. Most people I know in 1st semester study most nights until 9-10pm, some even later.

This has nothing to do with AUC. It's a matter of reality. That's what it takes to become a doctor. AUC like most Caribbean schools offers chances to some people who have less than perfect records. Some people take this opportunity and run with it, others as you point out don't make it. It's a blessing that schools like this exist and shouldn't be held as a negative.

If you think this is bad, France has a pyramidal medical school system. Almost anyone can get in, seriously. If you pass high school, you can get into medical school. There's a catch, after year 1 is over, pass or fail they select the top 15% to go into year 2. A starting class of several hundreds boils down to 60-70 at graduation. This gives everyone a chance, attrition is built into the program by design.

Come to SXM and study hard, you'll do fine. Never mind the others.

WantMD :-)

[AUCMD2006]

being 4th semester i've yet to hear anyone being forced to go to UK, seeing the available slots they vary between 60-over 100 per semester now depending on class size that will determine competition for your #1 choice. you rank your tope three choices and a weighed GPA is used to put you in class rank. this is usmle, gpa, extra curricular activities so if two people want a site it goes to the higher rank. phil green told us two weeks ago that in the last two years hes only had 1 person not go to their first choice region.

regions are midwest, east coast, west coast, and south, oh and europe. so you may not get the hospital you want but you will probable end up in the same city unless you want to wait until the next rotation start and get bumped to number one for that slot.

you have to understand that carib schools get left overs from US schools so any site will typically only have 4-10 spots per rotation so that is why we have so many affiliated hospitals. there is promising news for a new sit in chicago for all cores but we have been told to wait until our interview 5th semester to see if it goes through by then.

word generally is to not hold your breath and choose from what is available then rather than hope contracts go through. we have been waiting for a florida site since i got here and they just got it last month as an example. study do well clinicals are there but you have to be flexible.

[swimmer]

Yeah....I heard this rumor when I was in SXM too. The only thing keeping me from rotating in the States was STEP 1. Don't worry about AUC clinical spots- they exist. Worry about Step 1.

[akp]

So what you are saying is that if you do well on your step one you can for sure rotate in the states. What does well mean give me some numbers. What is the percentage of Auc students last semester, that want to do rotations in the US, are granted rotations in the US, per class. Is there some stipulation that the school has made with the us rotating hospitals that AUC students have to make a certian or higher score on step 1 to get rotations in US? Why are there spaces left in the US untaken if most students want to do rotations in the US. If I have to do rotations in england will I be eligible to get licenced in all the same states that Auc students who did rotations in the US are eligible to be licenced?

[microphage]

So what you are saying is that if you do well on your step one you can for sure rotate in the states. What does well mean give me some numbers. What is the percentage of Auc students last semester, that want to do rotations in the US, are granted rotations in the US, per class. Is there some stipulation that the school has made with the us rotating hospitals that AUC students have to make a certian or higher score on step 1 to get rotations in US? Why are there spaces left in the US untaken if most students want to do rotations in the US. If I have to do rotations in england will I be eligible to get licenced in all the same states that Auc students who did rotations in the US are eligible to be licenced?


IF you want guanratees... here's what they pretty much tell everybody:
Pass Step 1, get an 85% GPA and don't do anything stupid on this island to get you in trouble and you're pretty much guaranteed your #1 choice. Oh yeah, and do some communjity service as well as SGA, AMSA office positions.

Passing step 1 and the classes is the most important thing.. everything else comes later(no duh). From what I gather, there are enough US clinical spots but you might have to do a little waiting if you are not competitive in you GPA, etc.

England rotations will actually cause less licensing problems..(kind of stupid if you ask me). For example, don't ever do clinicals in PA or you'll never get licensed in that state if you're an FMG.

[FLK]

There has been a rumor that AUC has been accepting to many students and they are not able to facilitate them in second semester so they weed them out in first, is this true? ?

no

this rumor has actually been around since the very first class hit second semester.
in reality, AUC's easy admissions policy probably admits ( always has , always will ) some people that for whatever reason will fail.....they continue the same habits ( partying ) that got them to the Caribbean in the first place OR their lousy college performance was the result of bad study habits, a learning disability or maybe they're just morons

whatever reason, I saw a lot of people flunk out in my day. The hard truth is that AUC had absolutely NOTHING to do with these failures.
The student gets 100% of the blame, since I saw very smart people flunk out, and I saw some very below average people do well, with sheer determination and hard work.

IMO, England is a FANTASTIC place to train for your 3rd year, and lots of the people at the top of my class ( me included ) chose to go there for 3rd year.
I have NEVER suffered one iota for that decision. To the contrary, it actually was a huge benefit not only in terms of my personal life ( getting to see another part of the world for a long period of time ) but professionally, in that the British system is more directed at a good history and physical ( which is what MS3's are supposed to be learning ) and less on the American version of medical school which is consult cardiology, infectious disease ,and get an MRI to tell you what to do.

It also made for a nice conversation topic at interviews, when you have 5 minutes to speak to the 15th interviewer of the day....I could talk about training in England, about socialized medicine, etc.
**HINT** Programs like to match candidates who can make conversation. Nobody wants to hire a person who will bore the program for the next 3-7 years



Finally, I will give the whole ENgland thing another plug : time management.
The key to this joint is : get in , get out ASAP. Keep it simple.
Go to a site where you can get the entire 3rd year done in an organized fashion, without gaps in between.
The best part of AUC is when you are done. People place a Hell of a lot of stock in clinical this, clinical that. In reality, clinicals are where you learn about 1% of what you need to know to be a physician. The next 50% you learn in your first 3 months of residency, and the rest over the next 50 years

I ought to make this a sticky.....maybe we'll call the thread bovine excrement debunked

[microphage]

FLK:
No kidding, there's been like 1 clinical question for every 10 questions. I'm this close to writing an automated forum answerer to these questions, it's called "Copy and Paste". haha

[rdecastro]

Good point.

Not sure if this has been covered in another thread - but how are the logistics handled? room and board, interviews back in the states, etc?

Are there any problems with doing rotations in England and then getting licensed anywhere in the states?

[wifeofDr2b]

Yeah....I heard this rumor when I was in SXM too. The only thing keeping me from rotating in the States was STEP 1. Don't worry about AUC clinical spots- they exist. Worry about Step 1.

Swimmer: could you clarify what you mean by Step 1 keeping you from rotating in the States? Did you mean b/c of the individual score or due to the schedule of starting/finishing rotations?

I know up until very recently, one could start their rotations in England/Ireland as long as they had taken Step 1....meaning you didn't have to wait for the results like you would have done if you were starting in the States. This is no longer the case since now where ever you start, you need to have a passing score before you begin rotations. Also, I know a lot of students and AUC grads end up choosing England/Ireland for their 3rd year since many of the electives can be done at one place, back to back....whereas in many places in the states, there could be a 1-2 week break in between the individual start dates of the rotations......which could end up delaying the timeline if someone was trying to make the match by a certain date. Did any of these reasons apply to you? Thanks!

[akp]

Hi do you think it was hardwer to get residency coming from england? Where did you do or are doing your residency? Are you a practicing physcian?

[teratos]

Are there any problems with doing rotations in England and then getting licensed anywhere in the states?

No, with England, you don't have to worry about "Green Book" sites. They are all considered "Green Book" if you go there. G

[darocky]

are there any disadvantages in getting residency if u do rotations in England? i'm sure the education is great there, but don't residency directors prefer students who do their rotaions in US rather than in a foreign country?

[microphage]

are there any disadvantages in getting residency if u do rotations in England? i'm sure the education is great there, but don't residency directors prefer students who do their rotaions in US rather than in a foreign country?

you should return to the US after your 3rd year cores and do your 4th year electives in the States. You set up your electives wherever you want(if they accept you that is and it better be a greenbook hospital).

[FLK]

are there any disadvantages in getting residency if u do rotations in England? i'm sure the education is great there, but don't residency directors prefer students who do their rotaions in US rather than in a foreign country?

that's why God created 4th year electives which should be done in the USA

[FLK]

Hi do you think it was hardwer to get residency coming from england? Where did you do or are doing your residency? Are you a practicing physcian?

start with my"profile"

[darocky]

what did u mean by "if they accept you that is"? what exactly do clinical hospitals take into consideration? and is greenbook hospital the same as ACGME accredited?

[darocky]

Microphage:

what are greenbook hospitals? does that mean ACGME accredited? and what factors do hospitals in the US take into consideration before allowing u to do 4th year electives there? is it tough to get a US hospital for 4th year rotations? are there a lot of people who end up doing 3rd and 4th year in England if they can't get a US hospital? thanks

[wolfvgang22]

what did u mean by "if they accept you that is"? what exactly do clinical hospitals take into consideration? and is greenbook hospital the same as ACGME accredited?

Greenbook is the same as ACGME accredited. It's called that because the ACGME directory actually has a green cover.

One good reason you would want to do your 4th year electives in the U.S. is so you can impress attendings and network with residency program directors and keep your eyes open for opportunities you wouldn't be able to notice from all the way over in the U.K.

Your USMLE score is everyone's number one evaluation tool. You will have to compete with others for ACGME spots in certain fields, such as Neuro, should you choose to do an elective in Neuro. An ACGME Neuro rotation is required by Texas for licensure (if that matters to you).

[microphage]

Microphage:

what are greenbook hospitals? does that mean ACGME accredited? and what factors do hospitals in the US take into consideration before allowing u to do 4th year electives there? is it tough to get a US hospital for 4th year rotations? are there a lot of people who end up doing 3rd and 4th year in England if they can't get a US hospital? thanks

I think the greenbook literally means a GREEN BOOK where the ACGME lists hospitals that have a residency program for the clinicals that they offer to students(or something like that). For example, if you wanna do a Surgery clinical rotation at hospital X, they better have a Surgery Residency program there or at least be under a umbrella of a hospital system that does. FLK, Teratos, Faith, Anne, etc would better people to ask about this.

As for 4th year electives, it's very easy to get rotations(just don't be expecting Johns Hopkin or anything). Fill appropriate paperwork and let MEIO's clinical department take care of the rest.

I've only heard of a few people doing their 4th year clinicals in England and even then it was only for a few rotations. You wouldn't want to do 4th year clinicals in England, you need the US clinical experience. Don't worry, 4th year US clinicals are a breeze to get even in the state you might live in(unless you're from Oregon, Penn, or Washington, etc..) :evil:

[darocky]

for anyone who knows (apologies if this has been asked before)....if you do 4th year clinicals in the US, how often do u have to move around from hospital to hospital? can u do all of the rotations in one or two hospitals? and if u do have to move around a lot, will they put u in a hospital nearby in the same city/state, or would they move u someplace farther away? how much input do u have regarding the hopitals(s) u want to do rotations at? thanks for the help.