Stuck between a rock and a brick - please advise

[gedanken]

Currently, I am a pre-med student. I am in the Honors College at my University. I entered college with close to 45 credits coming out of high school, so I am pretty much at 90 credits after this Fall semester. I am probably a Senior, in terms of credits. My issue is that due to outstanding family issues, i.e. financial issues where I need to finish my education asap due to the death of a parent, I really am looking to enter medical school as soon as possible.

One of the things I was considering was leaving college without a B.S. and entering medical school. I know this is what I want to do. I am an, "A student. In addition, I have extensive research which was patented - has my name on the patent - and is currently at F.D.A. phase 3.

Do you think I can get in?

[sgMD]

Currently, I am a pre-med student. I am in the Honors College at my University. I entered college with close to 45 credits coming out of high school, so I am pretty much at 90 credits after this Fall semester. I am probably a Senior, in terms of credits. My issue is that due to outstanding family issues, i.e. financial issues where I need to finish my education asap due to the death of a parent, I really am looking to enter medical school as soon as possible.

One of the things I was considering was leaving college without a B.S. and entering medical school. I know this is what I want to do. I am an, "A student. In addition, I have extensive research which was patented - has my name on the patent - and is currently at F.D.A. phase 3.

Do you think I can get in?

what about the MCAT? you need to take it I think.

Think twice before making any decisions. The fastest way out is not always the best.

Cheers,

[B_W_]

what about the MCAT? you need to take it I think.

Think twice before making any decisions. The fastest way out is not always the best.

Cheers,

I agree w/ SG. It may seem difficult at the moment but if you are genuine about you info then I would wait and opt out for a N. American school. Besides you have a better chance of making up the income later on by going to school in the US/Canada as it'll be easier to secure the residency that you want compared to being a foreign grad.

[raptors]

I just wanted to cement what the others have preached.

In the long run a North American School is the best way to go. You probably can't forsee the consequences at this point of trying to take the "short" route and going to a Carribean school, but like the othesr have mentioned already residency, rotations/clinicals in various cites, stigmatization the list goes on.

Your life will be a lot tougher.

There's multiple thread on the board you could probably search on more advantages and disadvantages.

[tequila_mockingbird]

you say you are having financial issues that make you want to go to medical school faster. I understand how hard that can be, but going to medical school in the carib earlier will not help!

a lot of schools are loosing loans, and many more schools only offer one loan in which it's harder and harder to get that loan. so, you'll have money problems going to the carib....what's the use if you have debt but can't even finish medical school?

the schools that offer stafford, ie govt loans, require the MCAT, and are more competitive. You say you are an A student, which is great, but you need to kick some butt on the MCAT for St. George, Ross, and AUC.

finish your degree. get the great grades. then if you need to, work to make some money before you enter medical school.

and like everyone has said....the north american way is the best way because you get all the perks!

don't rush. cos remember like i always say it doesn't matter how fast you are going if you are going in the wrong direction, aight?

[seattle]

I totally agree with what everyone else posted here. I am sorry about the death of your parent. It must be very tough on you. I would, as everyone else here pointed out already, study hard for the MCAT and take it! See how you do! I don't want to repeat what others have said, so here is some new information since you asked:

For the September 2009 class entering statistics:

This was a very strong class. Average MCAT for Canadian students ranged in the 33-36 range and the average GPA was 3.60+

Average MCAT range for US students was 27-31 and GPA = 3.50+

Many in our class were Kinesiology majors, chiropractor, PhD and M.S., M.B.A degrees, nurses as well.

Saba is NOT an easy school. The program is accelerated (runs faster than most U.S. medical school curriculum) so make sure your background is sufficient to handle this pace!

Also, here is the inside scoop from the faculty; I know because they told me this (no rumor!) - once you are accepted they send your file to Saba and they do review your "verbal" subsection MCAT score. The reasoning is that they feel a low score in this area signifies an inability to read, filter, reorganize, and assimilate volumes of reading in a short amount of time. This is a critical skill where a lack thereof in this area has killed some from the Saba program! BEWARE!

So, here is my 2 cents - FINISH your Bachelor's degree! Keep up the "A" level work, especially in science courses. Make sure you have taken an Anatomy class! Very helpful! Take the MCAT! Then if you are in the 3.6+ GPA and 30+ MCAT range, apply to M.D. programs in the U.S. If you are in the 3.4+ and 26+ MCAT range, apply to D.O. programs in the U.S. If all should fail, THEN ONLY consider coming down here. The others have already given you a brief introduction on all the hoops you will face if you come down here. Please DO NOT place trying to finish quickly as your main priority. Medicine is a LONG ROAD - there are no short-cuts in life in this career path. Do it the right way! and Best of luck to you!:cool:

[schrizto]

To the OP, wouldn't your school adjust your financial aid accordingly for your situation?


For the September 2009 class entering statistics:

This was a very strong class. Average MCAT for Canadian students ranged in the 33-36 range and the average GPA was 3.60+

Average MCAT range for US students was 27-31 and GPA = 3.50+

:eek: The average stats for the Canadians are insane! Were they not able to land a Canadian/US medical school?


Saba is NOT an easy school. The program is [U]accelerated (runs faster than most U.S. medical school curriculum) so make sure your background is sufficient to handle this pace!



I did not know that. Wouldn't that hurt Saba students because some were already underqualified for a US medical school?

[sgMD]

To the OP, wouldn't your school adjust your financial aid accordingly for your situation?



:eek: The average stats for the Canadians are insane! Were they not able to land a Canadian/US medical school?



I did not know that. Wouldn't that hurt Saba students because some were already underqualified for a US medical school?

canadians typically need 3.85+ to get into a Canadian MD school and MCATS of around 33. But I highly doubt it that canadians in Saba have MCATs of 33-36 and gpa's of 3.6+. I am just skeptical about this, that's all!

Many of us can get into a US school, (I personally got into dentistry in the US) but since we cannot get loans more than 150K, we choose to go to Saba.

[seattle]

Hi sgMD,

The statistics I provided for the September 2009 class (Canadian students) is very accurate. I am in this class and it is a fact that most everyone fell in the range of 33-36 MCAT (no rumor) and GPA range of 3.60+.

This was statistically speaking, the highest achieving class Saba has had ever in it's history - not my opinion but what was said to me by faculty, no joke!

Take this as a real example (from someone who went thru all this):
With 108 entering September 2009, Saba has employed an indirect weed-out process by making the Block exams extremely tough to get the numbers down. In order to do this, they made our lab and theory exams very difficult. Our Anatomy Block 2 exam was all USMLE format, with paragraph style case study questions. Our embryology questions were all "K type" old National Board Question format from the 1980's. What this means is that multiple answers exist; not just one! You have to get the combination correct. Even in this kind of environment, close to 50% of the class scored in the 90+ range. That was outstanding and completely blew away the Anatomy faculty.

We also have chiropractors, M.B.A., engineers, nurses and PhD in our class. This is a very competitive class; September classes usually are. For some reason, a lot of these Canadians were not able to get into an MD program in Canada. I personally know friends in this class that have MCAT scores of 33, 35, 36 and over 3.6 GPA but did not get into any schools in Canada.

I was not aware though that Canadians can apply to U.S. medical schools. I thought there would be citizenship issues. And if they can apply to U.S. schools, I don't know why they didn't or if they didn't. They definitely have the stats to get in for sure!

[seattle]

SgMD,

Forgot to mention...in reference to your post "wouldn't that hurt the Saba students...."

Yes, you are correct that Canadians with unusually high stats are messing up the curves for the American underachievers and the latter are just getting kicked out of school right and left down there!

Saba used to be a 2nd chance school for Americans with sub-par GPA and/or MCAT scores (within reason though). However, the new trend post-2006 has been to get a very high influx of Canadian over-achievers who for whatever reason go to Saba and not the U.S. as a second option. Therefore, the Americans for the most part are just not making it in the program and get weeded out very quickly in 1st semester.

The program at Saba in 2nd and 3rd semester is insanely difficult!!! For example, in excess of 1000 power point slides to memorize in detail every 3 weeks for Block exams when taking Biochem, Physio, Genetics, and Epidemiology simultaneously. The weaker students just plain fail in the program. However, the stronger Candadians that I mentioned make it through all the way!

That is why I have taken such a huge amount of time to mention how competitive it is down here on the island. There are people that post here that want to use Saba as a quick fix so to speak, that means to just bypass the MCAT or somehow "trick" the U.S. system and try to get an M.D. Trust me, the nature of Saba's competitiveness and tough curriculum will just plain weed these people out in 1st semester by Block 2 exams! I have seen it so I know!!

[darkmansaad]

uh first semester is not hard, 2nd semester is not hard, 3rd semster is not hard....MED SCHOOL IS HARD
i really dont understand why all this input about first semester is being given to someone whos trying to make a long term choice. and what is this post about how many slides you have to memorize??!?!? dude, it gets WORSE, WAY WORSE!!!! if i started writing about my war stories of 3rd year and how i could barely get any reading done for stupid CCE exams after being on call Q4 up all night, everyone would think this is impossible and only geniuses make it through med school. anyway in closing =

read the posts of sgmd/bw/raptors have hit this on the head. people get weeded out every semester believe it or not........

[mario345]

SgMD,

Forgot to mention...in reference to your post "wouldn't that hurt the Saba students...."

Yes, you are correct that Canadians with unusually high stats are messing up the curves for the American underachievers and the latter are just getting kicked out of school right and left down there!

Saba used to be a 2nd chance school for Americans with sub-par GPA and/or MCAT scores (within reason though). However, the new trend post-2006 has been to get a very high influx of Canadian over-achievers who for whatever reason go to Saba and not the U.S. as a second option. Therefore, the Americans for the most part are just not making it in the program and get weeded out very quickly in 1st semester.

The program at Saba in 2nd and 3rd semester is insanely difficult!!! For example, in excess of 1000 power point slides to memorize in detail every 3 weeks for Block exams when taking Biochem, Physio, Genetics, and Epidemiology simultaneously. The weaker students just plain fail in the program. However, the stronger Candadians that I mentioned make it through all the way!

That is why I have taken such a huge amount of time to mention how competitive it is down here on the island. There are people that post here that want to use Saba as a quick fix so to speak, that means to just bypass the MCAT or somehow "trick" the U.S. system and try to get an M.D. Trust me, the nature of Saba's competitiveness and tough curriculum will just plain weed these people out in 1st semester by Block 2 exams! I have seen it so I know!!

bookmark this post, and read it again two years down the road, when you are studying for CK/CS/Step3, and are expected to know a LOT more than just book knowledge and random factoids that show up on step 1.

i am not saying that saba is not a challenge, but its definitely doable. people before me did it. i did it. you will do it too.

and i dont believe that the exams have gotten harder. anatomy hasnt changed in 2 years. it hasnt changed in 2000 years.
if you have the concept down and do practise qns, you will get through medical school - at any stage of medical school. its simple as that. same old peroneal nerve, drop foot and dr. cuma B.S. still applies.
if YOU take it upon yourself to memorize useless information like the insertions and origins of medial pterygoid, then thats your business - and its good for you. no one expects you to know more than basic anatomy so you can use that anatomical background for pathology later on. but dont use that to highlight your or your class's intelligence.

and again, i HATE how this notion that the september class is somewhat 'superior' is still around.
i know that for some reason, the september class tends to have more whiners, political, ********* and neurotic people who need to take an ativan before coming to school every day. every class has exceptional people, lets leave it at that and there is no reason for an undergraduate medical student to have a chip on their shoulder - you have not accomplished anything yet, sweetheart.

and i really doubt that kids with 3.7 gpa and 36 mcat would come down to saba by choice. that is just laughable. even more laughable is the notion that 'canadian students dont know whether they could apply to U.S. because they have 'citizenship' issues'. that is just complete bull****, and amusing coming from a Cdn student who is so hell bent on showing how intelligent all Cdn students are compared to our fellow american students.

you really believe that a cdn student actively seeking a medical school seat wouldnt know about this well known fact that you can apply to american schools? and not only LCME state or private schools, but also D.O. schools!? coz i feel sorry for anyone who went to saba with a 3.6 GPA and 30+ MCAT without even applying to atleast D.O. schools in U.S.. I feel sorry for them because they dont know what they are getting themselves into coming match time in 4 years.

and if you happen to be one of those cdn students who went to saba with those stellar marks, then your credibility as a 'smart cdn student' goes down with that horrendous decision.

[mario345]

p.s. DMS is not a september semester student either, neither are hundreds of other students who did just fine on their Step 1, i.e. accomplished what they had to after finishing the 5 sems on saba.

so...again, that shows you that sept. class doesnt mean anything. undergrad GPA doesnt mean anything in medical school. its level playing field. i can safely say that my 2.5 from UT is much much much better than your 3.7 from York. there is too much variation in undergrad GPAs, and sure, you may be able to secure a seat in september purely based on a high numerical GPA, but once you are in medical school, all these terms like 'smart', 'competitive', etc are thrown out, as its a completely new ball game.

[seattle]

how does the loan issue work for the Canadians who want to go to a U.S. medical school? Do you have good loan options?

[seattle]

I seemed to have caused some waves based on the earlier post regarding the September class.

My intention(s) are not to "boast" about high statistics, but rather to state a known fact - that September classes at the Big 4 schools tend to be more competitive than January/May classes and the entering statistics concurrently are usually higher.

And this particular class does have a greater share of prior graduate degree candidates (M.B.A, Ph.D, M.S., CRNA, etc.) compared to other semesters currently on the island. That does NOT imply this class is "smarter" or "better" than other classes. Responses in this forum seem to draw incorrect conclusions from my previous post.

All of this sidetracked my original intention for the OP, which is that I feel this individual should carefully weigh their prior science background, give the MCAT a chance and truly weigh the disadvantages of a Caribbean route versus a U.S. or Canadian medical school. We all agree if choice given, the OP should avoid saving time as the primary reason to come down to the island if there may be a realistic chance of gaining admission to a North American M.D., D.O. or Canadian medical school.

[darkmansaad]

yes but you made a terrible mistake. you started talking about how great the september class is. if you have read any posts on this forum you know that is the fastest way to start a post war with mario, THE FASTEST WAY

haha much love mario, when i saw that comment i was waiting to see how fast and how articulately you responded to that. you didnt let me down

[seattle]

Yes, oh wise one - Darkmanassad - you are totally correct! Ha! Ha! I guess that was a quick way of creating "The Perfect Storm" with Mario. Anyways, I hope the OP considers all their options carefully before jumping island bound.

I think what really got some people in my class to have huge egos was that the faculty kept boasting how this was the "smart class". Big mistake! It only caused the already over-inflated egoists to just get that much more inflated. (I wasn't anywhere close to those 33-36 MCAT score individuals).

I can't wait until Dr. W and Dr. L - known tough professors to burst some of those bubbles starting next semester. :nono:

[mario345]

how does the loan issue work for the Canadians who want to go to a U.S. medical school? Do you have good loan options?
ofcourse you do.
if you can get a loan for being a carib student, you will definitely get loans to attend an american school.

[bigkap87]

I'm sorry about your situation. It seems like you have received excellent advice already. If you want my two cents as a Saba grad in residency, definitely shoot for US schools, you can't rush this process, this is your future and this decision potentially shapes your future and you want to give yourself the best opportunity to do WHATEVER you so choose. Saba is a good school, but it may limit your options in residency (as with all other foreign med schools). Anyhow, hang in there and study your *ss off for MCATS and rock it. If you have any questions please let me know.

[seattle]

Bickap87,

Excellent advice - well said. I hope the OP takes all these comments and seriously considers the paths open to him/her.

Best wishes on your residency! It's great to see successful Saba graduates carrying on the tradition!! What did you match into?:D

[bigkap87]

I was lucky and matched into a great residency program in Internal Medicine. Good luck to you Seattle and all the rest, just hang in there it definitely gets better. With hard work, you will soon realize that Saba prepares you well.

[jacksun]

I would think long term the BSc would be valuable, MCAT I think is a must if you don't have a degree.

[seattle]

Jacksun,

As far as I can tell (not being in Saba Admissions Office), the MCAT is required of those students who completed their science courses at a community college and/or had significant "C" level grades in the science pre-requisites and/or had a cummulative science GPA that fell below 3.00

That seems to be the new trend for pre-screening applications.