St. Matt and the big 3

[trinityalumnus]

If this has been discussed previously please accept my apologies. I'm new to this forum and only recently discovered St. Matt's. I've spent several weeks lurking on the ACU/Ross/St. George forums.

Would someone mind listing the pros/cons of St. Matt's up against the other 3, which seem to be the most commonly listed Carib schools to consider. Many thanks.

[rdecastro]

The major difference is that the big three are already approved in all 50 states. They also have a recognized, relatively long term track record, and are far better known to residency program directors than the other schools.

When Saba, and St. Matthews are approved by California they'll be well along to joining the big-three but even then, they'll be less well known. AUC for instance is usually (rightly or wrongly) ranked as #3 of the big three, mainly because it hasn't been around as long.

[tRmedic21]

AUC for instance is usually (rightly or wrongly) ranked as #3 of the big three, mainly because it hasn't been around as long.

26 years? Well, let me know when it's been long enough.... :lol:

[MDTOB]

trinityalumnus,

Unofficial rankings of the Carib Medical Schools are:
#1 St. George's
#2 Ross
#3 AUC
#4 SABA/St. Matthew's (this tie will be broken once California has approved St. Matthew's)
#5 MUA

Rankings are based on the following criteria:
1-the number of years a Carib Medical School has been around.
2-the number of graduates + practicing physicians.
3-the number of different Residencies the school's graduates are obtaining (i.e. anything other than Family Practice, Internal Medicine, and Pediatrics).
4-the USMLE Step I pass rate (very important!).
5-overall quality of education and instruction (i.e. quality of professors).
6-facilities and resources (i.e. labs, specimens, etc.).
7-student satisifaction
8-number of affiliated "Green Book" teaching hospitals (for clinical years).
9-number of approved states for practice, residency, and clinicals.

[wolfvgang22]

trinityalumnus,

Unofficial rankings of the Carib Medical Schools are:
#1 St. George's
#2 Ross
#3 AUC
#4 SABA/St. Matthew's (this tie will be broken once California has approved St. Matthew's)
#5 MUA

Rankings are based on the following criteria:
1-the number of years a Carib Medical School has been around.
2-the number of graduates + practicing physicians.
3-the number of different Residencies the school's graduates are obtaining (i.e. anything other than Family Practice, Internal Medicine, and Pediatrics).
4-the USMLE Step I pass rate (very important!).
5-overall quality of education and instruction (i.e. quality of professors).
6-facilities and resources (i.e. labs, specimens, etc.).
7-student satisifaction
8-number of affiliated "Green Book" teaching hospitals (for clinical years).
9-number of approved states for practice, residency, and clinicals.

I think St. Matts is a good school. NY approval proves that for us.
I also generally agree with your rankings and criteria.

Having said that, I would maintain that Saba should be ahead of St. Matts on the list, not tied, for the following reasons:

California has just finished it's site visit of Saba, whereas St. Matt has not yet had a site visit by CA that I am aware of, though it is reportedly scheduled. So Saba could very possibly get CA approval first! (The race is on... :wink: )

Secondly, by the criteria above(specifically numbers 1 and 2), Saba should be ranked higher than St. Matts.
Unless, for whatever reasons you haven't specifically mentioned, St. Matts excels on the other criteria more than Saba. If so, could you please explain?

Ok, that's my weekly post on "Which of these top 3 or 4 Carribean medical schools is best?" topic.
See you next week.
:P

[Junito]

There are many students here at Ross that decided to come here because it was supposedly the only Caribbean school that allowed you to return to the states after 4 semesters. Secondly Ross prides itself in the number of clinical rotations it offers to its students. Before I applied to Ross I asked if they would have rotations in Orlando and no one could give me a clear answer. Some said that by the time I leave Dominica Ross will have a clinical site there (they emphasized that since Ross had Miami, that it would eventually get Orlando and Tampa too). Others told me that it was not going to happen anytime soon because Orlando is very picky about who can rotate there. I checked the Orlando Regional Health Center and it seemed true. A month or two I come upon SMU, and see that they have clinicals there and that cores can be completed there too (correct me if I am wrong). Now is it me, or did SMU just disprove the big 3 theory. I see SMU already rivaling two of the big 3 schools. First AUC prides itself in providing an American style education in a tropical paradise. Yet SMU is now in the Cayman islands. Ross would trumpet from the mountain top that you can finish your time in Dominica after 16 months. SMU offers you the opportunity to leave their tropical paradise after 12 months (that is if you enroll in the MHSA program). I guess that the big 3 better look out for SMU is about to bring down the house. If I would have known what I have known now...I would have been studying in a tropical paradise called the Cayman Islands, rather than Dominica.

Honestly for those looking to find a great education in the caribbean...it's either SGU or SMU!

Juni

SMU here I come!

P.S. I don't care about reputation, I rather be in the US ASAP and get my clinical rotations done in Orlando!

[WestTexasRN]

Is SMU approved in FL for residency and licensure? Thanks.

[stephew]

these "rankings" are really meaningless. The points folks have put into them do reflect some conventional wisdom, but nothing more.

To make the right decision for yourself you should consider a school's pass rates and the % of any given class who makes it to the boards with their class (ie doesnt fail, dropout or decel), if you can get licensed in the state you want (dont go for the ploy that a school should be licensed in state "x" any day now. If its not licensed when you accept them, it can go either way), check to see if people are getting residencies in the area you'd like to go into, and after that consider things like cost, lifestyle etc.

This whole term "big three" is a silly thing that's gotten picked up on these boards. Its a problem because it groups together schools that shouldn't be lumped together in all cases, and leaves out others that might be just as good. But its a lazy short hand for newbies.

The extent to which a school has been around matters mostly to the extent to which its likely to be around a few years from now; that is you dont want it going out of business with you in it, and life can be made hard if it goes out of business and you are looking for a license someday and there's no administrative office. The name recognition factor is an issue to the extent that program directors do become comfortable with one school over another and certainly if a school has been around longer a PD may have had more chance to work with those students but that's hardly a guarentee that duration= better chance at residency.

dont try to focus on lists of what the big three, four or 10" are and look at the factors above to help you make your decision.
good luck in your choice

[SMU_Information]

SMU is fully approved for licensure, residency, and rotations in FL. You can learn more on page 2 of http://www.stmatthews.edu/credentials.html.

We are also fully approved in NY.

SMU students and graduates are currently limited in:

Kansas-No licensure, residency, or rotations until 2012.
New Jersey- No rotations.
Maine- No rotations.
California- No licensure, residency, or rotations unless SMU is approved this fall.

Texas-SMU is currently recommending that students do not attempt to participate in rotations or residency in TX. Licensure rules for IMGs are still changing, and SMU can't predict what the final outcome will be in regard to Texas.

There are other states that consider all IMGs on a case-by-case basis.

[SMU_Information]

That was an excellent post, stephew. I didn't get to see it as I was typing my post, but those are great pieces of advice.

[AmericanIMG]

Steph makes a great point (like she usually does). your decision has to be the based on which school is the best fit for you...this can decision can only be made by gettin all the information that you can on the various schools and going from there. here is what i looked into when i was applying to the off shore schools

1- LICENSURE!!! many schools arent allowed to have their graduates (nor any students who have completed ANY medical classes at their school) practice in certain states throughout the US. best bet is to call the medical licensure dept in a few of the states that you expect to end up in and make sure that you will be good to practice.
2 - USMLE step1 pass rate (both of 1st time test takers and overall)
3 - percentage of matriculating classes that went on to take the step1 (i did this because say a school had 100 incomings. of those 100 only 80 took the step1 (20 dropped out, failed out or transferred). of those 80 lets say that 56 passed (70% of the 80). what this means is that only 56% of the matriculating class passed step1, even though it looks like 70% passed. i personally believe that this is a better way to gauge).
4 - retention rate
5 - school facilities/island safety/clinical rotations/graduates residencies

based upon all of these factors i chose St Matts and i havent regretted it for a minute...i was given admittance to a host of other Carib school as well. the education, the island, the opportunities...all are abundant at St Matts.

feel free to PM me if you have any questions

good luck!!!
:wink:

[TopGunner]

2 - USMLE step1 pass rate (both of 1st time test takers and overall)
3 - percentage of matriculating classes that went on to take the step1 (i did this because say a school had 100 incomings. of those 100 only 80 took the step1 (20 dropped out, failed out or transferred). of those 80 lets say that 56 passed (70% of the 80). what this means is that only 56% of the matriculating class passed step1, even though it looks like 70% passed. i personally believe that this is a better way to gauge).
4 - retention rate
5 - school facilities/island safety/clinical rotations/graduates residencies


#2-4: Any definitive statistics yet for SMU? Anyone know the stats for AUC?
#5: Is there a list of residency placements sorted by class year/type of residency/location for SMU?

[SMU_Information]

2) First Time USMLE Step I pass rate/78-81%. All attempts/99%.

3) Combine with #4 with #2 (everyone is now required to pass Step I before begining clinicals).

4) 91% retention rate.

5) http://www.stmatthews.edu/residencyplace.html

Have a good one.

[TopGunner]

Thanks for your reply. I have seen that link to SMU's residency placement, but I was wondering if you had anything more specific-- like what residencies at what hosipitals. Personally, I'm more interested with IM residency placements.

[SMU_Information]

No, we don't release exact info because not all of our grads have given us permission to post their information.

For example;

Alum A matched in Family Practice at Mercy Hospital, and has given their permission.
Alum B matched in Internal Medicine at General Hospital, and has ot given their permission.

If we posted the placement information like this;

Family Practice, Mercy Hospital
Internal Medicine, General Hospital

It would be very easy to contact that hospital department, ask for the SMU grad, and potentially cause a problem with someone who didn't give their permission.

Now, if we post it like this:

Family Practice, Internal Medicine

General Hospital
Mercy Hospital

It's much more difficult to identify specific individuals, and we can still post all placements.

There are drawbacks. For example, we have multiple grads in multiple specialties at one Chicago hospital, but if you look at our list it looks the same as if there were only one.

You can always contact the Alumni Coordinator, Mary Jenkins, at mjenkins@smucayman.com. Ask for any criteria you like (specialty, geography) and she will give your info to one of our Alumni Volunteers.

Our top 5 residency specialties are:

1) Family Practice
2) Internal Medicine
3) General Surgery
4) OB/GYN
5) Pediatrics

followed by the others listed on the website.

Have a good one,

[qnguyen]

hi jp, what about colorado?

[TopGunner]

OK, fair enough that you can't list exact residencies. However, do you have a list of the matching hospitals by year?

On the website it says "Reported Residency Placement including 2004 Match". How about residency sites JUST for 2004?

[SMU_Information]

We don't have anyone in Colorado yet, but we have reviewed their licensing laws and application and don't see a problem there.

Topgunner, I'll pass your suggestion on to the Alumni Coordinator.

[microphage]

Colorado is one of the more difficult states. They review each case on an individual basis and decide that way. I'm not a licensure expert but this is what I've read in the forums here.