order of events

[AnnieDH]

Hi everyone,
I'm a Canadian citizen (ON) & a dental hygienist turned prospective med student interested in SABA and had a few questions.

What is the order to complete stuff in in order to get back to Ontario to do residency and practice? I only hold Canadian citizenship & I've heard a lot of talk about getting a "statement of need & J-1 visa" to do residency in the states.

This is how I understand it...it might not be correct which is where you informative people come in the picture :

- 2 years Basic sciences in the carib followed by USMLE Step 1
- Clinical rotations in the USA & at some point complete Step 2 (ck & cs)? **When does this occur?**
- Apply for residency in the states... I hear it's tough to get the H-1B so if I need the J-1 then would I have to do USMLE Step 3, all MCCEE steps & then get a Statement of Need in order to get the J-1? If so, what order do these events occur? When would I write USMLE Step 3? Can I write MCCEE Step 1&2 before the USMLE Step 3??
Do I need to go through CaRMS to show that I attempted to get a residency spot in Canada but didn't make it so therefore I need the J-1?

Hope my questions make some sense...I've checked it out on the cpso website but perhaps I missed some impt. info.

Any help would be appreciated as I'm trying to get a "timeline" of what to expect. Also, if there's anything else that you all feel worthwhile to mention, please do!

Thanks!

[little_indian_boy]

Hi everyone,
I'm a Canadian citizen (ON) & a dental hygienist turned prospective med student interested in SABA and had a few questions.

What is the order to complete stuff in in order to get back to Ontario to do residency and practice? I only hold Canadian citizenship & I've heard a lot of talk about getting a "statement of need & J-1 visa" to do residency in the states.

This is how I understand it...it might not be correct which is where you informative people come in the picture :

- 2 years Basic sciences in the carib followed by USMLE Step 1
- Clinical rotations in the USA & at some point complete Step 2 (ck & cs)? **When does this occur?**
- Apply for residency in the states... I hear it's tough to get the H-1B so if I need the J-1 then would I have to do USMLE Step 3, all MCCEE steps & then get a Statement of Need in order to get the J-1? If so, what order do these events occur? When would I write USMLE Step 3? Can I write MCCEE Step 1&2 before the USMLE Step 3??
Do I need to go through CaRMS to show that I attempted to get a residency spot in Canada but didn't make it so therefore I need the J-1?

Hope my questions make some sense...I've checked it out on the cpso website but perhaps I missed some impt. info.

Any help would be appreciated as I'm trying to get a "timeline" of what to expect. Also, if there's anything else that you all feel worthwhile to mention, please do!

Thanks!

Ok so you will spend approx 2 yrs on a carib island. then take a break and take step 1. then start 3rd and 4th yr clinicals in the states and where ever else you wish to go. You take step 2 ck and cs approx at the end of 3rd yr. Apply for match (residency) in sep of the yr previous to the match yr. J1 is a easy visa to get especially for ontario residents. H1 tougher since need to pass step 3 and step 3 requires you to graduate first with diploma in HAND. So most people won't have the time unless they take a yr off or if they started in a Jan class like myself. even then it is still tight but I am tryin to pull it off. For J1 from Ontario you need to pass MCCEE only. Every province has it's own bull shit rules. Sorry have to vent a little since I am sorry to say our country treats us like second class citizens once you do med school in another country. trust me you'll learn all this once/if you leave canada. I just took the MCCEE today. Very similar to step 2ck. Don't even bother studyin for it just take it after step 2 ck. Only MCCEE is needed for j1 not h1b. The other exams are mccqe1 and mccqe2 which are written during residency if you do residency in ontario. For Ontario you don't need to go thru carms first if you wanna apply to the states only for residency. But I think for other provinces like Alberta you do. Another bull shit rule which is honestly just a cash grab, and so is mccee by the way. Wow I'm pretty angry today, LOL! H1b is extremely difficult to get even if you have step 3 passed before the match. trust me I am going on interviews right now and fewer and fewer residencies offer it. Why, simple. It costs 5 grand and has a shit load of paper work associated with it. honestly by the time you graduate the H1 for residency might be a thing of the past. There are just too many qualified applicants who are willing to go on J1 (which is the most retarded visa in my opinion if you are thinking of living in the states for good). But hey most people have no other option. Lastly, think hard and long before you go to the carib schools - even the big 4 - sgu, ross, auc, saba. Things are getting tough. At the end of the day people who are getting decent interviews in IM at good schools in nice cities have 90's on step 1 and 2. In 4 yrs I don't see anything other than FM, peds, psych, and IM being an option for most IMGs. Look into DO schools if you don't mind living in the states forever. Most residency programs prefer DOs and another bull shit rule is that DOs can apply to their own residencies and ours (allopathic). MDs cannot apply to DO residencies or felowships. However I believe DO is only recognized in the states. DOs can do anything MDs do. Don't think they can't. Hell, the neurosurgeon at my current hospital is a DO.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck and if you dont know any of the acronyms - google is your friend. peace

[kananaskis_girl]

let it all out buddy..... hope the interview trail is going well, update me when you get a chance!!

[miasma]

yeah, j1 is a headache. i'm plannin for j1 and interviewing for residency right now. i plan to get a j1 waiver after residency....but yea...i would do h1b if u can...i wish my timing allowed me to.

[kananaskis_girl]

the worst thing about the J1 is that the years you do under it don't count towards you gaining PR in the US.....the H1B does. Horrible system for us to try and break, but Canada is worse to go back to, I'd rather deal with immigration headaches in America

[AnnieDH]

Ok so you will spend approx 2 yrs on a carib island. then take a break and take step 1. then start 3rd and 4th yr clinicals in the states and where ever else you wish to go. You take step 2 ck and cs approx at the end of 3rd yr. Apply for match (residency) in sep of the yr previous to the match yr. J1 is a easy visa to get especially for ontario residents. H1 tougher since need to pass step 3 and step 3 requires you to graduate first with diploma in HAND. So most people won't have the time unless they take a yr off or if they started in a Jan class like myself. even then it is still tight but I am tryin to pull it off. For J1 from Ontario you need to pass MCCEE only. Every province has it's own bull pooh pooh rules. Sorry have to vent a little since I am sorry to say our country treats us like second class citizens once you do med school in another country. trust me you'll learn all this once/if you leave canada. I just took the MCCEE today. Very similar to step 2ck. Don't even bother studyin for it just take it after step 2 ck. Only MCCEE is needed for j1 not h1b. The other exams are mccqe1 and mccqe2 which are written during residency if you do residency in ontario. For Ontario you don't need to go thru carms first if you wanna apply to the states only for residency. But I think for other provinces like Alberta you do. Another bull pooh pooh rule which is honestly just a cash grab, and so is mccee by the way. Wow I'm pretty angry today, LOL! H1b is extremely difficult to get even if you have step 3 passed before the match. trust me I am going on interviews right now and fewer and fewer residencies offer it. Why, simple. It costs 5 grand and has a pooh pooh load of paper work associated with it. honestly by the time you graduate the H1 for residency might be a thing of the past. There are just too many qualified applicants who are willing to go on J1 (which is the most retarded visa in my opinion if you are thinking of living in the states for good). But hey most people have no other option. Lastly, think hard and long before you go to the carib schools - even the big 4 - sgu, ross, auc, saba. Things are getting tough. At the end of the day people who are getting decent interviews in IM at good schools in nice cities have 90's on step 1 and 2. In 4 yrs I don't see anything other than FM, peds, psych, and IM being an option for most IMGs. Look into DO schools if you don't mind living in the states forever. Most residency programs prefer DOs and another bull pooh pooh rule is that DOs can apply to their own residencies and ours (allopathic). MDs cannot apply to DO residencies or felowships. However I believe DO is only recognized in the states. DOs can do anything MDs do. Don't think they can't. Hell, the neurosurgeon at my current hospital is a DO.

I sincerely wish you the best of luck and if you dont know any of the acronyms - google is your friend. peace

Thanks for all the info! I think you answered all of my questions. Congrats on writing the MCCEE btw, hope it went well.
Np with the venting, I can only imagine how frustrating it is. I don't plan on living in the States forever, so the DO isn't an option for me. I believe you're right about them only being recognized in the states...
It sucks how things are getting tougher, but I'm still hopeful for more changes that will benefit the FMGs out there. It seems like with the hassle of getting back to Canada most people just end up staying in the states..obviously, there's more money & opportunity there...

I'm definitely putting a lot of thought into the carib med schools and I'm aiming for Jan 2011. Canadian med schools are out of the question for me. Thanks again, good luck with your clinicals/exams/residency/etc!

[atropine]

Hey Annie

I'm a student at Saba right now. Everyone's pretty much answered your questions but I just wanted to clear up your info about MCCEE. This is for IMG doctors and there's only 1 'step' of it that you have to write to both get the statement of need, and apply for residency in Canada. It's similar to the USMLE Step 2 CK, so you can basically study for both concurrently and write them at the same time. If you have any questions about Saba feel free to PM me or post on the Saba boards.

[AnnieDH]

Hey Annie
I'm a student at Saba right now. Everyone's pretty much answered your questions but I just wanted to clear up your info about MCCEE. This is for IMG doctors and there's only 1 'step' of it that you have to write to both get the statement of need, and apply for residency in Canada. It's similar to the USMLE Step 2 CK, so you can basically study for both concurrently and write them at the same time. If you have any questions about Saba feel free to PM me or post on the Saba boards.

Atropine,
Thanks for the reply as well. I actually assumed just that based on the other responses but much appreciated for clearing that up!!
I will eventually post more questions on SABA boards and pm you too..thanks for the offer!

Annie

[webber]

Hi everyone,
I'm planning to apply for the 2011 US match. I'm a Canadian citizen, from Ontario. I'm planning to take the CK this July. When do I have to take the MCCEE so I can apply for the J1? I know many people have said to do both the CK and MCCEE together, but I only have 6 weeks for the CK before starting another rotation, and I'm worried 6 weeks won't be enough for both CK and MCCEE. So, my question is, when is the latest I can take the MCCEE to still apply for the J1?
Thanks in advance!

[little_indian_boy]

Well if you are applying for the 1st round of the Canadian match (Carms) you might want to take it latest by Sep or Nov of the year previous to the Match yr. Nov might be cutting it too close since your score won't come till early- mid Jan. Yes, Canadians are quite slow. Your score comes by snail mail. You can only check if you passed online. If you are just going for the J1 and only applying in the USA then I think you could even take it in Jan of the same yr as the match. Programs only deal with visa paper work after you MATCH at their program. So you don't really have to show any proof of visa eligibility till after the match. You just state that you will go on a J1 in your online ERAS application in Sep. Heck you have no other choice unless you married an American or graduate early and try to go for an H1b.

Oh ya, just take the MCCEE after Step 2Ck and you'll be fine. Honestly, you don't need to study separately for it. I did pretty much the same as I did on Step 2CK.

Good luck!

[webber]

Thanks for the reply, little_indian_boy. I am not applying for carms, I just want residency in the States for now. Preferably, I'd like the H1b, just like everyone else, but I'd like to play it on the safe side and have the MCCEE done just in case I need the j1. So when I apply for ERAS this year, I'll have to specify which visa I'm planning to take? If I choose j1, would that hinder my chances for the H1b?