longtime lurker, first time poster...

[djw05401]

The subject line says it all... I read as much as I could, for a long, long time, before posting. I meant this to be my first post, but I just couldn't ignore the Jag reject a few threads down in this forum. Seriously considering foreign because I did less than stellar my first round through undergrad. Bad enough that I don't really want to post the numbers. No BCPM GPA to speak of... But bad enough overall that a postbacc isn't going to do what I need, by a long shot. The vital question is a two part-er, and the 600 pound gorilla in the corner of my room.
a)As a US citizen, do I stand a chance of getting an internship/residency in the country in which the school is located, or elsewhere in the EU, given that I score well on whatever the local equivalent to the Steps may be?
b)Would said internship/residency be paid, in the style of the US, or is it considered additional training for which I would need to incur additional debt? (I've looked and looked and haven't found a clear-cut answer to either.) Obviously this leads to a second question - Assuming A is "sure" and B is "paid", and I pick up reasonable fluency in the local language along the way (in 6 years? Easy enough...) would I then be able to work in that country? For a variety of reasons, if I leave, I wouldn't be all that interested in coming back to the states, as you may have picked up... I'm sure I'll have other questions, but I've found quite a few answers in some of the older posts. I have some other questions regarding funding and such, but I'd be getting way ahead of myself to even think about worrying about such things at this point. One step at a time... Thanks in advance...

[tennisball80]

Why not the big 4?

[djw05401]

'It's my understanding that the Big4 are harder on their criteria for admission, more expensive, and absolutely require that some portion of the clinicals be done in the US. I'm looking, if possible, for a route that gives me the option of staying where I happen to be. It also seems to me that the two primary routes to practice are to go through the Steps and come back to US, or stay where you are - sounds more difficult to go to a carib school and practice in, say, the Czech Republic than to just go there in the first place. I'm not under the impression that there are alot of jobs on Saba, even if you could, in theory, do ALL clinicals and residency there and get licensed. Although... there was a thread somewhere buried way down deep in the main forum about the Netherlands Antilles becoming part of the Netherlands proper. So IF that happens, IF they re-approve the schools under the new government, etc., that might be an interesting potential path to Europe. Anyone have more details on th ecurrent status of that, beyond wikipedia basics? :) That said, I'm an odd duck - the idea of 4-6 years in a place with no winter would depress the daylights out of me, no pun intended, and that wouldn't help my studies any. Then there's the mobility of an EU degree and license. I know, I'm difficult. lol

[devildoc8404]

a)As a US citizen, do I stand a chance of getting an internship/residency in the country in which the school is located, or elsewhere in the EU, given that I score well on whatever the local equivalent to the Steps may be?

Depends on the country. You can get residency in Bulgaria, for example, but it's almost impossible in the UK without an EU passport. Every country will have its own requirements.

b)Would said internship/residency be paid, in the style of the US, or is it considered additional training for which I would need to incur additional debt? (I've looked and looked and haven't found a clear-cut answer to either.)

GME here is not paid. It is paid in other parts of the EU, but amounts vary. That's why there's no clear-cut answer.

Obviously this leads to a second question - Assuming A is "sure" and B is "paid", and I pick up reasonable fluency in the local language along the way (in 6 years? Easy enough...) would I then be able to work in that country?

If you try to learn the language? Six years is more than enough time. If you don't put any effort into it, you won't learn it nearly well enough. However, the rhino in the room is whether or not you would WANT to work in that country. Check out physician salaries in some of these countries before you decide what you are doing in that regard.

For a variety of reasons, if I leave, I wouldn't be all that interested in coming back to the states, as you may have picked up...

Europe's great, but I would recommend that you don't close any doors prematurely. I would recommend taking the USMLEs over here, making sure that you can work in whatever place you are looking at, and finding options for an EU passport. I would love to work in some areas of Europe, but I fully plan on completing residency in the States so that I will always be able to come back. (Also, there are jobs overseas available with US state licensure...)

I have some other questions regarding funding and such, but I'd be getting way ahead of myself to even think about worrying about such things at this point.

Funding varies on whether or not the school has FFELP approval, VA approval, etc. You can get US federal and private education loans at schools with these approvals. Otherwise, no way.

Hope that helps!

[djw05401]

Thanks for the great answers... As usual, it breeds more questions.

Oddly enough, the UK wasn't high on my list, so residency in that country isn't an issue. I say that only because the few "foreign" schools I'm aware of operating in UK boundaries are either gone now or will be soon because of charter issues and such... Obviously I don't mean the ACTUAL british schools. Could have made that statement more clearly.

Someone posted awhile back as to whether or not time spent in school/residency counted towards the minimum time to get PR or citizenship in a country. Does anyone have solid info on this for their own personal corners of Eastern Europe?

I know there's a limit on the time you can take between the end of school and the USMLE - two years, maybe? After passing the USMLE, are those scores good forever, or could the time to take the test AND the scores expire, leaving me utterly without a way to do a residency in the US, say, 7 or 8 years down the road? Unlikely that I would need that, but you're right about not closing doors...

Has anyone gone the route of legally immigrating to a country for reasons unrelated to school, then going to med school, getting citizenship/PR in that time, and then leveraging that into a better residency due to the EU passport? Maybe I'm overcomplicating that...

unpaid GME = 3-5 more years of loans? Or am I missing a piece of that puzzle?

Trying to learn the language is integral. I have no desire to be "that guy" who has lived (wherever) for 6 years and still can't speak a lick of the local language - not only would it make school and clinicals quite difficult, but it's takes away most of the experience and benefits of living in another country, as well as makes permanent residency very difficult in most cases, if you don't speak it. In 6 years, I could reasonably become truly fluent, I believe, even learning it on top of school.

I'll take a look at salaries in those areas... To some degree, I think it's balanced by the lower debt load, but then again I already have some undergrad debt.

All countries seem to require proof of funds for your proposed stay before they'll allow you in the door. This seems to create a gap where no staffords are flowing because you're not enrolled yet. Does this mean that immigration control would expect me to pay up front for the first year and have living expenses in the bank, but stafford loans could be used to pay the remaining years?

If I did complete residency in the states, I would likely have to complete residency again in the country in which I wanted to work, correct? It seems the licenses don't transfer well, from what I've read...

Schools must be eligible for stafford loans - I can pull a year's worth of tuition and expenses out of thin air, maybe, but not much more...

[sakoba]

your answers were very helpful