Sgu does not care about you or your safety [Archive]

medstudent84

10-29-2009, 11:29 PM

Dear all,

My rash words written the night before my exam where falsified and exaggerated.
I had been stressed the last few months and felt helpless so I turned to this public forum to get my anger out.

I had been robbed twice and felt frustrated that no one was helping me fast enough.
After I had been robbed off campus, the school was able to provide us with housing right away to double rooms.
My roommate and I instead decided to switch housing with our friends living on campus and they'd be living in our place off campus.

After meeting many times with school administration, after the fact, I realize that they actually help students a lot and make them feel safe even though it is not apparent on a day-to-day basis.
What happens behind closed doors is sometimes hard to see.

The deans' office doors were ALWAYS open to us and they would always do their best to appease us during stressful times.

I want people to realize that I did get a little freaked out by my 2 incidences, but one has to realize that accidents happen anywhere.
I am an isolated case and I do not want people to think poorly of SGU and Grenada because of the words I wrote before. It does not reflect the typical experience of a student at SGU.

The local people that you meet on campus, the beach, or at the markets are usually welcoming and friendly people. Besides my experience of med school the island has a lot of offer with weekend activities, hashes, and boat cruises. You know things you can't enjoy during the winter in other places
Grenada is a beautiful island and at the end of the day there is no better stress relief than the Grenadian sunset, and a day at the beach.
Despite my incidences I have enjoyed myself and the unique experiences SGU and Grenada have to offer.

To anyone that wants to become a doctor, SGU is a great school and many successful doctors have graduated from here. I am proud to be a student at SGU and I look forward to completing my studies and becoming a doctor in the near future.

mangmang

10-29-2009, 11:40 PM

For all applying or still here just wanted to fill you in on how inhuman SGU staff is.

In brief, my roommate and I were living off campus in True Blue, 5 min from school and got robbed by machete point in our home. A guy climbed up to our balcony, jumped in, grabbed me, told me and my roommate that he was going to kill us several times and then told us to just give him our money. Mind you we are 2 small girls, so it was quite traumatic.
This was 2 days before our 1st path exam.

We told the school what happened and didn't feel safe there and needed to live on campus. We found 2 empty dorm rooms which we could stay in but they DENIED us!

So we did the only thing we could do was to go to our friends here.
Our 2 guys friends were kind enough to switch with us since they live on campus so we swapped rooms without housing knowing b/c they wouldn't help us.

What happens then? WE GET ROBBED ON CAMPUS! The cleaning staff left my dorm room open and some local guy came in and just stole my laptop and walked out!

SGU is not claiming any responsibility, will not put up cameras (even though this is cheap and a major deterant), and instead wants to kicks us off campus!!!!!! and they keep harassing us in the middle of exam week.

Needless to say, SGU does not care about you just so you know!
Do not apply here, it's not safe and the people just don't care about you, just your money and how to quickly steal it from you.

Im really sorry to hear u had to go through that, Did u try to talk to the Dean of students and to ur SGA rep?maybe they can help u

laclipps

10-29-2009, 11:40 PM

How do you know it was a local guy that came in and stole ur laptop? but that sucks to get robbed twice in a week.

digitalising

10-29-2009, 11:42 PM

Have you posted on "Talk to the Chancellor?" If not, I highly recommend you do so that action can be taken. Sometimes the top doesn't know what's going on at the bottom.

conjuctiva

10-30-2009, 12:07 AM

How do you know it was a local guy that came in and stole ur laptop? but that sucks to get robbed twice in a week.

what you think it was a student? hahahah

and as for the OP.. welcome to St. George's University and Grenada :peace:

payme2

10-30-2009, 12:21 AM

It sucks that you were robbed, but things like this happen around my US undergraduate school as well. We have shady people selling drugs and mugging students.

It seems as if the Caribbean islands are lawless like the wild, wild west. Do more violent crimes happen on the island, and are those crimes ignored as well? What happens if you don't pay the thieves? Like, you didn't have any money on you. They'd be pissed, but they probably won't come back.

If you were to hand over couple hundred dollars, they'll come back to get more money later from you.

laclipps

10-30-2009, 01:45 AM

what you think it was a student? hahahah

and as for the OP.. welcome to St. George's University and Grenada :peace:

The way she said it seems like she saw the person who took the laptop. I was not implying a student took it, but you never know. Students have stole books, notes, and phones from various study areas, including inside the actual anatomy lab during official lab hours [where only med students are].

SuperDorm7

10-30-2009, 02:19 AM

It's very sad you had to go through that especially during 4th term exams. The fact the matter is SGU staff really doesn't give a crap. Whether it is the IT department, the housing department and even some of the academic departments (clinical skill and micro), they have no concern for the students.

TheFooBar

10-30-2009, 04:58 AM

You do have my sympathies for the hardships you've experienced. However, I wonder if you'd indulge a few questions.

For all applying or still here just wanted to fill you in on how inhuman SGU staff is.

In brief, my roommate and I were living off campus in True Blue, 5 min from school and got robbed by machete point in our home. A guy climbed up to our balcony, jumped in, grabbed me, told me and my roommate that he was going to kill us several times and then told us to just give him our money. Mind you we are 2 small girls, so it was quite traumatic.
This was 2 days before our 1st path exam.

Where's the response of your landlord in all of this, since they are the ones who failed you? Failing to have bars on the balcony seems to be a significant oversight. Did you ever ask that your balcony be secured? Did your landlord explain the very significant risk you were taking by renting an apartment without important security features?

We told the school what happened and didn't feel safe there and needed to live on campus. We found 2 empty dorm rooms which we could stay in but they DENIED us!

Were any reasons provided?

So we did the only thing we could do was to go to our friends here.
Our 2 guys friends were kind enough to switch with us since they live on campus so we swapped rooms without housing knowing b/c they wouldn't help us.

What happens then? WE GET ROBBED ON CAMPUS! The cleaning staff left my dorm room open and some local guy came in and just stole my laptop and walked out!

I have to echo the thoughts already put out there; did you see said "some local guy" walking off with your laptop or is the identity of the robber pure conjecture on your part?

SGU is not claiming any responsibility, will not put up cameras (even though this is cheap and a major deterant), and instead wants to kicks us off campus!!!!!! and they keep harassing us in the middle of exam week.

What reasons are they providing for wanting to eject you from campus?

Needless to say, SGU does not care about you just so you know!
Do not apply here, it's not safe and the people just don't care about you, just your money and how to quickly steal it from you.

In terms of your personal safety I would suggest the party who failed you isn't SGU, but your former landlord.

It does sound like SGU failed in securing your personal property, and for that I can understand your frustration. However, I have to express disbelief that their reaction to your claim of theft is to eject you from campus. I wonder if there is more to the story and would be interested to hear the reasons provided by the university regarding your ejection.

Finally, to reiterate what has already been said, if you understandably want to take SGU to task for the laptop, I encourage you to continue your complaints higher up the chain of command.

ipitythefool

10-30-2009, 08:21 AM

I do feel sorry for you. It must suck to be robbed twice. The person above is right. Your landlord is responsible for the failure to secure your apartment with adequate safety and you should do all you possibly can to hole him/her accountable. But this being Grenada i don't think u will get same level of response/ success as in US. Also have you filed a complaint to police about this? In the past it has helped other people

The laptop being stolen on campus is totally SGU responsibility however. It was stolen from your apartment due to the maids irresponsibility. Definitely complain to people higher up. All the best. Let us know how it turns out.

lamarconcini

10-30-2009, 09:54 AM

She is not blaming SGU for the robbery, she is rightfully upset because SGU has not helped her out since it happened.

SGU wants to kick her out of the dorms because she is not registered to live there, she switched with her friends without housing permission.

laclipps

10-30-2009, 11:34 AM

I think it is wise to bring a laptop lock down, and secure it to the desk [most desks at SGU have two holes]. I know its an inconvenience to lock it each time, but a thief will most likely not bother with your laptop and move on to the next. Even if SGU does compensate for the loss, going thorugh all the hassle without a laptop for the rest of the term is unimaginable. It's better to lock it than take a risk. Just advice to ppl coming into the island.

mauricebiship

10-30-2009, 12:08 PM

I'm really sorry to hear that. Although it's the landowner's fault for the initial robbery, SGU should have done a much better job dealing with the situation.

All I gotta say is that this school is full of a bunch of clowns especially in the clinical skills department. They make us go to the hospital when theres an outbreak of the flu, possibly H1N1.

They should revamp the entire IT, housing & security departments and replace the employees with competent people who actually know what theyre doing, and not chatting on Skype or watching YouTube videos all day.

Drs. M, P & R, I hope you're reading this thread.

sugar-shack-boy

10-30-2009, 12:58 PM

Sorry that you had to go through all of this "medstudent84". Even when you moved onto campus, you still got robbed. Yikes!! I wonder what security was doing? Hmm. Probably checking all students for their proper IDs with stickers and letting all their local friends through the gate as usual. That really frustrates me.
Now what frustrates me even further is how the administration/housing is dealing with the situation. Obviously, you along with most of us are just students and nothing more to the school. As long as we pay them $$$, that’s all they care. Unless you have political power back home to support you, complaining to anyone here is useless, even the DOS. Some departments are so inefficient and unprofessional that it really makes me think twice about letting my friends and family members from the states apply here. Enrollment has exceeded 500 students for 1st term medical students in Grenada. That’s not even mentioning the 100+ students who will be joining them from the UK. To me, this is definitely going downhill. What use to be a “good” school is now going down the drain. Maybe I should’ve gone to Ross or even AUC. What the heck, it’s too late for that.

digitalising

10-30-2009, 02:31 PM

aust0042

10-30-2009, 04:25 PM

rokshana

10-30-2009, 04:52 PM

Nice to see that this thread is bringing in a number of new people, although this comment:

"They make us go to the hospital when theres an outbreak of the flu, possibly H1N1."

Was a little strange. Try calling in when you're doing rotations to say you're not coming in because of the flu outbreak and see how that goes.

that was my thought too when i read that...if you are uncomfortable being around sick people, then you may want to rethink your career choice...

i can understand the reaction of saying that they would have to leave campus...simply because they weren't supposed to be on campus to begin with...but if there were 2 empty spaces on campus i'm surprised that they wouldn't have jumped to take the money for the board, like another poster stated there must have been something else...

an as posted before, you shouls post something on the talk tot he chancellor board...many times Chancellor M isn't made aware of these things and once he does know, he is very responsive to students' concerns.

SuperDorm7

10-30-2009, 05:26 PM

I agree 100% with what you said. On another note, I wonder if SGU usually offers flu shots to students or if the vaccine shortage has come into play. I know the docs at GND general received their flu shots.

The doctors at GND general have received their vaccine and as such will not get sick when exposed. This isn't the same for students. The clinical skill department only instruction for student is to wash their hands when they go to the hospital and NEVER URGED the student to get vaccinated even when it is available at the clinic. As a result, students are exposed and WILL get sick. Anyone will tell you that this isn't the proper way to function for a medical school. As I have stated earlier, there are departments in this school that doesn't give a CRAP about the students. If there is a problem or concern that the student want to address to these departments, we're ignored and brushed off. It is only when the deans and people at higher up are involved that something gets done.

sugar-shack-boy

10-30-2009, 05:47 PM

I anticipate that everything is improving for the 2 students who got robbed. I know that if I were in their shoes, I would react just the same or maybe even worst. We should try to empathize with the 2 students. I understand that the 2 students have swapped rooms with their friends, probably without the knowledge of the housing office. But as a reminder, they have been robbed by a stranger who told them that he would kill them. Any normal human beings would be extremely frightened and totally stressed out, especially right before a pathology exam. I’m sure most of us have never had a machete held to our necks and told that if we move, we’ll die.

Golding

10-30-2009, 07:31 PM

Rough situation. You definitely have my sympathy as far as the robberies go. But I do agree with TheFooBar's assessment. It's sometimes really easy to blame the school for our big problems, because many of us have grown accustomed to blaming the school for our littler problems. SGU, especially housing, is composed of drones that follow orders and aren't allowed to make judgment calls outside of protocol. If the Chancellor is made aware of the situation, you have more of a chance of being able to go on campus.

Then just make sure you keep your valuables safe. At minimum lock your laptop, and at most keep it with you at all times. Hopefully you had the laptop insured...

bbm113

10-30-2009, 08:30 PM

I dont think medstudent84 is posting on here so people can give her advice. I think she's posting it because no matter how safe you are, we are still targets down here that could use extra help from SGU.

presando

10-30-2009, 08:41 PM

digitalising

10-30-2009, 08:56 PM

The on-campus incident should be investigated vigorously by the school. The off-campus incident is, as others have pointed out, a landlord issue. However, even in the States criminals will climb up on balconies and enter homes that way, so this isn't something that's "only in Grenada."

They run a safety patrol through the neighborhoods where most students reside. The only thing I've wondered about is whether they have a late-night/off-route shuttle that will take students back to their homes when the regular buses stop running. Apart from increasing these patrols there's not much the school can do to ensure safety off-campus. Some say that the school can use its heft to put pressure on landlords to improve security, but with so many landlords it will be difficult. The best would be for the residents of the individual buildings and establishments to band together to request and/or force improvements.

Cameras are not cheap, despite what the OP said. It can cost tens of thousands of dollars for a small system and hundreds of thousands for a large one. Add to that the cost of implementation, setting up a central monitoring center, and the maintenance which would likely be increased in the tropical setting, and you're looking at a sizable investment. This isn't an argument against putting it in place, just pointing out that it's not easy, especially on an island where getting equipment in a timely manner or at all can be dicey.

laclipps

10-30-2009, 09:30 PM

I think the gist of the problem on campus is that security lets people who are not affiliated with the campus inside. That's an issue I never understood from the beginning. How does the school keep on allowing it. SGU should put up trespassing signs that it is private property and prosecute violators. And any security guard allowing locals on campus should be fired. Obviously, that doesn't solve the problem, but reduces the number of occurances. SGU should take full blame for the on-campus incident until the secure the campus properly, not having a faux security booth at the entrance.

DiscoDoc

10-30-2009, 09:34 PM

They run a safety patrol through the neighborhoods where most students reside. The only thing I've wondered about is whether they have a late-night/off-route shuttle that will take students back to their homes when the regular buses stop running.

I know they do have an off-route bus that runs (I think it's the "G"), but I'm not sure how it works exactly.

ModernDayGilligan

10-30-2009, 10:27 PM

...I think she's posting it because no matter how safe you are, we are still targets down here that could use extra help from SGU.

I didn't want to get into this but, wow. What an unfortunate perspective to have. I can't imagine how exhausting it would be to walk around every day with that kind of fearful idea on my mind.

The simple safety fact is this - nowhere is immune to burglary, and no matter how cautious you may be, crime still occurs.

This is a separate issue, but I read the crime reports and am amazed at the kind of things people carry around with them. Nobody in their right mind walks home through Central Park with hundreds of dollars in their pocket along with their passport, credit cards and ID. So I don't understand why people do this on their way home from Bananas (walking alone, no less).

...especially if "we are still targets down here".

::sigh::

bbm113

10-30-2009, 10:51 PM

I didn't want to get into this but, wow. What an unfortunate perspective to have. I can't imagine how exhausting it would be to walk around every day with that kind of fearful idea on my mind.

The simple safety fact is this - nowhere is immune to burglary, and no matter how cautious you may be, crime still occurs.

This is a separate issue, but I read the crime reports and am amazed at the kind of things people carry around with them. Nobody in their right mind walks home through Central Park with hundreds of dollars in their pocket along with their passport, credit cards and ID. So I don't understand why people do this on their way home from Bananas (walking alone, no less).

...especially if "we are still targets down here".

::sigh::

I didn't say that things aren't dangerous everywhere, and yea i'm pretty sure most people walking through Central Park have their ID on them and their credit cards.

I said the school could help us. My friend got robbed and when she asked for a copy of the police report from campus security, they told her they couldn't find it.

And they dont target us??? haha, do you even go to SGU?

rokshana

10-31-2009, 12:01 AM

I didn't say that things aren't dangerous everywhere, and yea i'm pretty sure most people walking through Central Park have their ID on them and their credit cards.

I said the school could help us. My friend got robbed and when she asked for a copy of the police report from campus security, they told her they couldn't find it.

And they dont target us??? haha, do you even go to SGU?

you may be new here but modernday has been around for quite some time and no he doesn't attend sgu, his wife did and they has spent more time on island than any of the med students.

yes robbery occur and yes students get hit, but lets face it if you keep thousands of dollars in cash in your home, have all sorts of electronics around, have a few cars, you will be a target, regardless of being a student or not...its just that the students are more open than the locals about leaving things about...

and the police can be very helpful...we did get robbed (and no we weren;t targeted because we were students, 2 other houses in our gated complex were hit and locals lived there, one got hit twice!) and the police were out at my house within half an hour, dusted the whole place for prints and managed to recover my car within 2 hours and my roommates computer within the week.

bbm113

10-31-2009, 12:14 AM

rokshana

10-31-2009, 12:29 AM

So the two girls that were threatened to be killed are at fault here. They didn't have bars on their windows on the 2nd floor?? They are not looking for a lecture on how to be safe. It is unfortunate what happened to them, and I agree with the girls in saying that their are things that SGU could do to help ensure our safety on and off of campus.

maybe not PC, but maybe...how careful were they looking for a place to live?...esp as a girl you have to make safety a priority, even if that means spending more money for a safer place..

how careful were they about keeping things, electronics, jewelry, money, hidden and low key...i know someone who was robbed of 10K (his whole loan check) because he kept that much in cash in his house because he didn't want to open a bank acct in gnd...:shock: please that is just askin to get hit...

it is terrible that they were assulted and they very well could have taken all the precautions and this still happened, but more oftern than not, many crimes are those of opportunity...walking by yourself at 4AM back to school from banana's...you will be a target, just as you will be if you do the same thing on the LES in NYC. And there is but so much responsiblity you can lay on sgu's door when you live off campus.

and as the economy has gotten worse so has the crime rate everywhere in the caribbean as well as in the US, its not just a gnd thing.

SuperDorm7

10-31-2009, 01:13 AM

yes robbery occur and yes students get hit, but lets face it if you keep thousands of dollars in cash in your home, have all sorts of electronics around, have a few cars, you will be a target, regardless of being a student or not...its just that the students are more open than the locals about leaving things about...

I completely disagree with your statement. By this logic, if you own nice things and live in Grenada, you're not covered by the law of this country and it is pretty fair for you to get robbed. Again, because you own nice electronics, have cash in your own home and have a few cars around, it is fair that you will be a target of crime in your own HOME. These girls are the victims. Yes, you're right crimes happens in Grenada just like it happens in the US. But the logic is if you know students are getting robbed, why can't the great security force do a better job patrolling and protecting. You already know who the targets are and it doesn't take a genius to figure out the pattern. Here's one pattern that everyone notices, when Banana has events that doesn't involve the school, students that lives around there get robbed. There is clearly a lack of competence with the head of security in this university. I totally empathize with the girls and hope things get better for them.

ModernDayGilligan

10-31-2009, 01:34 AM

You already know who the targets are and it doesn't take a genius to figure out the pattern.

I don't live near a lot of students. I live in a predominately Grenadian neighborhood and have heard of several robberies over the last few weeks. It's not targeted only at students.

There has been a recent increase in nonviolent crime, and it's much more likely that a small group of criminals are behind the majority of these incidents.

The only pattern here is that the majority of crimes have been crimes of opportunity - residences improperly secured, and quite often, valuable belongings in plain view. Any night a student's residence is robbed, you can count on the fact that a non-student's residence was robbed on the same night not too far away... (You won't find non-SGU incidents on the SGU Crime Report bulletin, but you will in the weekly newspaper.)

Regardless of the police work we're accustom to in the US, the old fashioned non-CSI Miami work that's done here does get results. Good descriptions go a long way in communities where everyone knows everyone and the police know all the troublemakers.

Folks are too busy blaming SGU security to notice the paramilitary posse with camo and machine guns that goes out looking for the fella who holds up a girl on her way home from Bananas - but they definitely go out, and they do find their suspect.

rokshana

10-31-2009, 01:37 AM

Here's one pattern that everyone notices, when Banana has events that doesn't involve the school, students that lives around there get robbed. There is clearly a lack of competence with the head of security in this university. I totally empathize with the girls and hope things get better for them.

one i wouldn't think the school would have any authority to control things outside the gates of the school, so while bananas is close to the school and its patrons are pretty much sguers,but two, it really isn't the school's responsiblity...why doesn't BANANAS gear up security when these events happen? if sgu students stopped going to bananas because of safety issue, bet you they would then beef up security.

and i did state that the local authorites do actually do something (at least they did so in my case)...and i would imagine if you actually looked at the number of students that have some sort of criminal action against them vs those that don't, the stats are probably pretty low...wonder if there is anything actually done like that...there are over 2000 students at sgu and probably less than 100 of them ever have anything happen if the sgu reports are accurate.

bbm113

10-31-2009, 02:09 AM

SGU has a responsibility when their isn't enough housing on campus. And you cant argue if people want housing they'll eventually get it. I have several friends that didn't get off of the waiting list a month into the new term, and were force to find places off of campus.

laclipps

10-31-2009, 02:30 AM

Actually SGU has no responsibility for providing security outside of campus. Like the above poster said, it should be bananas providing security. And most campuses in the US do not have housing for every student attending, and SGU is no different.
But SGU should warn students of unsafe places off-campus, and places they recommend against living. Furthermore SGU shoudl provide better service to accomodate, at least temporarily students that have been through a traumatizing experience.

digitalising

10-31-2009, 03:47 AM

SGU has a responsibility when their isn't enough housing on campus.

No, they don't. If you go to many medical schools in the United States, they do not offer on-campus housing at all, which means that you have to find your own. My undergraduate institution in Baltimore didn't give housing to juniors and seniors so we had to find our own places. Baltimore is significantly more dangerous than Grenada as a whole - when I was there, students were mugged, stabbed, and even murdered a block from the campus. The attached medical school was downtown in the middle of the ghetto (and I mean literally the projects), and you would be laughed off if you asked about on-campus housing.

Here, students live in a much more spread out, with roads that are less accessible. If you look at a map of Grenada, LAE, Calliste, Grand Anse, True Blue, and Mont Toute take up a sizable portion of the southwestern portion of the island. It would take dozens of patrollers to be able to hope to secure that area, especially as they are striated with roads. The school to its credit does run security patrols in areas with high student populations, but to say that it's the school's responsibility to ensure that everyone off campus is safe, especially when some students choose to live as far away as the golf course, is simply not true.

As for your previous statement that there is no law for people who have nice things - the people who get robbed are the people who have things that others want, like money, electronics, jewelry, or clothes. People who don't have stuff that no one wants don't get robbed, because no one is going to make the effort to break into someone's house and take a bunch of junk that they don't think has value. It has nothing to do with legality; it's the practical assessment of the situation. Why do you think the President of the United States has the Secret Service protecting him, whereas your average school board member has a lock on his or her door? It's a matter of incident likelihood.

No one is blaming the OP for being robbed - there's no excuse for putting a knife to someone's throat for money. What is being pointed out are tips for future students who will move off campus as to how they can improve their security.

TheFooBar

10-31-2009, 04:09 AM

So the two girls that were threatened to be killed are at fault here. They didn't have bars on their windows on the 2nd floor?? They are not looking for a lecture on how to be safe. It is unfortunate what happened to them, and I agree with the girls in saying that their are things that SGU could do to help ensure our safety on and off of campus.

They are not at fault for being robbed. However, it was an unsurprising consequence of choosing to live in a place without the necessary security features. It isn't much different than leaving your front door unlocked while you are away; it doesn't mean you should be robbed but it also means that you shouldn't fall out of your chair in shock when it does happen.

I'm not sure how you and others expect SGU to ensure our safety off campus. Do you have any specific suggestions or is the idea that since you're here to attend SGU that they are in some way responsible for you 24/7? If you have a problem with general security isn't the local law enforcement the responsible party?

I'm all for holding the school accountable for school related topics but "the medical school I go do doesn't provide quality security for my private residence off campus" complaint honestly blows my mind.

AngryBaby

10-31-2009, 07:23 AM

SGU does what it can to ensure off-campus safety, e.g. offering security pickup if you need a ride after dark. In fact, when I was there for the last 2 years campus security drove up and down our little cul-de-sac off-campus 2-3 times throughout the day and maybe at night when we were asleep for all I know.

SGU does their part and there's always notices about being careful/safe off-campus.

AngryBaby

10-31-2009, 07:31 AM

one i wouldn't think the school would have any authority to control things outside the gates of the school, so while bananas is close to the school and its patrons are pretty much sguers,but two, it really isn't the school's responsiblity...why doesn't BANANAS gear up security when these events happen? if sgu students stopped going to bananas because of safety issue, bet you they would then beef up security.

Anyone with a modicum of common sense agrees with this statement. You kids need to stop hanging out there until 2-3 or whatever it is in the morning when you know it's a high risk area. Bananas is a private enterprise and if you guys stopped showing up it'd be in their interest to hire 2 guys w/ or w/out a car to patrol that little stretch of road up to SGU.

Kids...

AngryBaby

10-31-2009, 07:34 AM

And to pre-empt a potential rebuttal, I went to undergrad in North Philly which can be a pretty rough area. We'd walk through the streets late at night/early morning to go to and come back from parties when I was there but when kids got mugged coming back from drinking off-campus nobody blamed the school.

digitalising

10-31-2009, 07:34 AM

Anyone with a modicum of common sense agrees with this statement. You kids need to stop hanging out there until 2-3 or whatever it is in the morning when you know it's a high risk area. Bananas is a private enterprise and if you guys stopped showing up it'd be in their interest to hire 2 guys w/ or w/out a car to patrol that little stretch of road up to SGU.

Kids...

For what it's worth, I've actually noticed increased security guards in front of Bananas, both in the day and in the nights. They mainly stick around to the area in front of Bananas though rather than walk along True Blue Drive though.

RedBird

10-31-2009, 10:29 AM

But SGU should warn students of unsafe places off-campus, and places they recommend against living. Furthermore SGU shoudl provide better service to accomodate, at least temporarily students that have been through a traumatizing experience.

SGU does warn students about the unsafe off-campus places, if you bother to ask. When I was looking for an apartment, I spoke to the housing office about each of the places I was seriously considering, and they told me about recent crime/complaints surrounding each of them.

CANeh

10-31-2009, 10:37 AM

Anyone with a modicum of common sense agrees with this statement. You kids need to stop hanging out there until 2-3 or whatever it is in the morning when you know it's a high risk area. Bananas is a private enterprise and if you guys stopped showing up it'd be in their interest to hire 2 guys w/ or w/out a car to patrol that little stretch of road up to SGU.

Kids...

Wait a second grand pa!! You mean it is not safe to hang out at or around a drinking establishment at 2-3AM in an underdeveloped country when you know other students have been harassed and robbed with a rusty tetanus infected machete??? Rubbish.

CANeh

10-31-2009, 10:42 AM

SGU does not have a responsibility to petrol the country for your safety. A student has the responsibility to think clearly and take precautions to make sure you find a safe place in a safish neighborhood. SGU students have been robbed right outside campus... next to Kwaliti indian restaurant. That is how close it can be. You are foreigner, you have money, and you are an easy target. What better can someone ask for.

SGU should bring this issue up with the area police and see if something more can be done. If students are concerned they should post on the chancellor's forum.

SGU campus is very safe. I do notice locals can come and go as they please on campus, but it is not usually a problem. You can isolate yourself on club-Med SGU. But I did find it funny that they checked your ID coming into campus only if are on the bus. Everyone should have their ID checked and if non-sgu should register at the gate.

Campus Housing Staff. Oh... I don't have the time to comment on this. Somewhere in the past I posted that they should all be retrained or replaced... or transfered to work at Glovers. But then again, students there will suffer by not getting food on campus.

Phrenetic

10-31-2009, 11:52 AM

Electronics, purses, bookbags, laptops disappeared from various offices and study spaces at the medical school (top 30) where I did research prior to coming to Grenada. We also had at least 1 assault on or very near campus every month on average. The population was smaller than the SGU population. The campus police would give the same common sense safety instructions and advice as we get here at SGU.

I'm sorry about what happened to the OP, but I really don't see why there is such outrage against SGU.

The world is a dangerous place and bad things happen to good people even when they do everything right. It doesn't matter if you are in Grenada or New York.

kananaskis_girl

10-31-2009, 12:14 PM

Keep this thread on topic and civil folks, general warning to all.....

sugar-shack-boy

10-31-2009, 01:22 PM

TheFooBar

10-31-2009, 02:02 PM

I know that several of the posters here probably have taken the 2nd path exam already. Most of you probably agree with me that it’s an extremely challenging exam. To be robbed and threatened your life away right before the exam, that’s no excuse for the university to not play a part in this and get those two victims on campus immediately.

You are confused. They were robbed and their life threatened before the FIRST pathology exam.

The problem they were having this week is that the university was insisting they move out of the dorm room they didn't rent from the university.

Until the OP (or one of their supporters) can explain why the university refused to rent them the alleged empty dorm rooms I have to reserve judgment if moving them onto campus was even possible. It is clear the OP has left out salient details like the reason for their on-campus eviction was because they were effectively squatting in a dorm room.

I also don't understand where this notion of "if I am robbed off campus I should immediately get to move on campus, and if that doesn't happen then clearly SGU is an uncaring institution that doesn't care about me" comes from. I know of no university where being assaulted or robbed would GUARANTEE you an immediate housing spot. Sure, they may rent to you if they have space but a guarantee, no.

bbm113

10-31-2009, 03:24 PM

The room is being paid for. 2 guys offered to switch living spaces with the 2 females.

rokshana

10-31-2009, 03:32 PM

The room is being paid for. 2 guys offered to switch living spaces with the 2 females.

nonetheless they did not inform housing of said switch, so technically the girls are not living on campus and are occupying a room that is not theirs...while maybe the school could be more sympathetic, there is no real responsiblity to allow them to stay in a room that is not assigned to them which they are not paying for. Basically subletting is not allowed and visitors are only allowed to stay for a week per term and if you are doing either generally you stay under the radar...

and its not like they couldn't have made that switch legally...when i wanted to get out of my on-campus housing to live off campus, all i had to do was find someone who was not already on the wait list to take my spot...i posted it on sgupost and within a week i had someone who was interested...done deal. They could have just been upfront with their plan and it they had, maybe they would have been able to stay on campus, since they would have been assigned the room.

rokshana

10-31-2009, 03:47 PM

this is not just a gnd thing....crime has increased throughout the caribbean basin

http://www.valuemd.com/american-university-caribbean-auc/185420-robberies.html

http://www.valuemd.com/ross-university-school-medicine/178870-do-you-want-know-how-much-crime-dominica-has-increased.html

sugar-shack-boy

10-31-2009, 05:15 PM

I’ve wondered how I would react to a case like this if I were to be the victim. First, get robbed at machete point with my life threatened. Spoke to SGU about it. SGU not being professional and helpful. Then get robbed a second time on campus and the university plans to throw me off campus, even though I've been robbed twice. Hmmm. I wonder what I would think about the university then. I guess there's no empathy. Oh well, most of our lives go on as if nothing has happened to the 2 victims.

TheFooBar

10-31-2009, 05:31 PM

The room is being paid for. 2 guys offered to switch living spaces with the 2 females.

As Rok alluded to, the male students don't have the authority to decide who lives in the room they paid for. The right to sublet is understandably withheld for on-campus housing.

The guys should have read and understood the housing contract that they signed.

TheFooBar

10-31-2009, 06:13 PM

Then get robbed a second time on campus and the university plans to throw me off campus, even though I've been robbed twice.

The university plans to throw them off campus because they don't have an agreement to lease them a room. The students should have ensured that their (effective) sublease was within the rules.

Hmmm. I wonder what I would think about the university then. I guess there's no empathy. Oh well, most of our lives go on as if nothing has happened to the 2 victims.

I have plenty of empathy for the students regarding their attack. However, that doesn't seem to be the focus of their outrage. There was no "Landlord at (apartment name) does not care about you or your safety" post, as I recall.

Instead the OP seem more interested to warn us about how SGU evicts people living in dorm rooms without a housing contract but radically skews it as "SGU evicts fourth term students from on campus during exam week because we complained about being robbed." For this I have no sympathy.

MaxPower311

10-31-2009, 07:49 PM

digitalising

10-31-2009, 08:19 PM

I'm guessing some of you didn't do too well on the verbal section of the mcat...she never blamed SGU for being robbed off campus...therefore any argument blaming the victims for the initial robbery, whether there is any validity, is irrelevant. So maybe we should end that discussion and keep those opinions to ourselves. If you were robbed and had your life threatened, the first thing you want to hear isn't "well it isn't SGU's responsibility, you were being irresponsible" etc. When someone reports a rape, it's not acceptable to say, "well look at what they were wearing"

Most of the posts you are referring to are directed not to the OP but to those that state that it's somehow SGU security's responsibility for protecting students who live off-campus.

And for what it's worth, I did quite well on the verbal section of the MCAT.

jackbnimble

10-31-2009, 08:28 PM

[QUOTE=rokshana;1173520]this is not just a gnd thing....crime has increased throughout the caribbean basin/QUOTE]

Happy Halloween,

Jackb

digitalising

10-31-2009, 08:36 PM

SGU not being professional

This accusation gets thrown out a lot here. Please explain how SGU acted unprofessionally in this case. I can understand unhelpful, but the two qualities do not necessarily overlap.

digitalising

10-31-2009, 08:37 PM

[QUOTE=rokshana;1173520]this is not just a gnd thing....crime has increased throughout the caribbean basin/QUOTE]

Well hi Rokshana, I seem to recall some of your similar responses to those pointing to crime in Grenada over the years. You are to be admired for your consistency.

While admittedly less intelligent than you, I am always at a loss to understand when one points out deplorable behavior in an effort to minimize horrendous behavior.

Happy Halloween,

Jackb

JackieB, I don't think Rok's post was intended to be taken the way that you did, but to each his/her own.

TheFooBar

10-31-2009, 09:42 PM

While admittedly less intelligent than you, I am always at a loss to understand when one points out deplorable behavior in an effort to minimize horrendous behavior.

How does pointing out the crime problem is systemic and ranges beyond Grenada in any way minimizing horrendous behavior?

jackbnimble

10-31-2009, 09:53 PM

How does pointing out the crime problem is systemic and ranges beyond Grenada in any way minimizing horrendous behavior?

sgu rocks

jackb

rokshana

10-31-2009, 10:42 PM

Well hi Rokshana, I seem to recall some of your similar responses to those pointing to crime in Grenada over the years. You are to be admired for your consistency.

While admittedly less intelligent than you, I am always at a loss to understand when one points out deplorable behavior in an effort to minimize horrendous behavior.

Happy Halloween,

Jackb

OMG what a blast from the past....and amazing that your 1st post back be directed at me! some things never change...

so how would this be handled down under? would a med school in Oz be considered responsible for giving housing to some one robbed while they lived off campus...or be responsible for their safety off campus to begin with?

my point certainly not to take away from the rising crime rate in GND, if there is such a rise ( seems that its getting more aggressive not necessarily more numerous, but not being there at the moment i can only speculate on that), but to say these economic times are making such acts more of an occurrance...and the school has not responsiblity to provide housing for its students, the fact that they do is a bonus. Would i hope that the school would help me out in a time of need?...i would certainly hope so, but do they stand in loco parentis? no...everyone who is at sgu (with the exception of the undergrad maybe) are of legal age...they are responsible for themselves and they chose to come to sgu, hopefully fully aware of the dangers that are inherent to living in a developing country...what if this DID happen in NYC? what would they have expected then?

the school IMHO has shown that they are pretty supportive of student needs...they were able to get 2000 med and vet students restarted into classes in 3 weeks after a cat 5 hurricane hit the island...repaired that same island campus within 5 months to have everyone start back on the island, returning back to them the board they paid in gnd so they could rent places in LI and Miami and the other places the vet students went, moving an entire class from SVG mid term because of violent actions against students, and refunded many their deposits for off campus housing. They moved graduation to accommodate student wishes and concerns , even changing a quiz date so people could go home for easter...

i would imagine if those girls wanted to take a leave of absence because of the 2 incidents, they would be granted one...they could go home recooperate and recover and come back, into campus housing (properly) and hopefully feel safer.

TheFooBar

10-31-2009, 10:57 PM

Because, bringing up crime stats elsewhere is just a shell game--it is not relevant. Presumably, the OP was not suggesting crime is limited to Grenada or even that inadequate response to crime is uniquely a problem in Grenada.

As Jonathan Swift said, "it is impossible to reason someone out of something they were never reasoned into in the first place."

jackb

Swift also said "I have been assured ... that a young healthy child well nursed is at a year old a most delicious, nourishing, and wholesome food, whether stewed, roasted, baked or broiled." Is this really the kind of guy you want to side with?

I can see where you think the statistics are irrelevant. However you are apparently trying to reason me out of the relevance of the statistics when I was never reasoned into it in the first place. Nice try, though.

The question was about your assertion that the posting of the statistics somehow "points out deplorable behavior in an effort to minimize horrendous behavior." I'll concede the "points out deplorable behavior" part but you still have yet to offer anything justifying the rest of your assertion.

Pointing out others are suffering doesn't, by necessity, minimize an individual's suffering. Suffering isn't a zero-sum game.

jackbnimble

11-01-2009, 12:21 AM

OMG what a blast from the past....and amazing that your 1st post back be directed at me! some things never change...

so how would this be handled down under?

(snipped out in an abundance of confusion)

i would certainly hope so, but do they stand in loco parentis? no....

loco parentis? no..

loco parentis yes, but that does not address the point. Maybe you mean the Spanish definition of loco, rather than the Latin?:)

Cheers,

jackb

bbm113

11-01-2009, 12:27 AM

Maybe the problem here is that not everyone (including the 2 girls, and future students) are aware you are on your own down here. SGU reps never stress that once you step off of campus they are not accountable for anything that happens to you, and that you will probably have to live off of campus at some point through your time on the island.

jackbnimble

11-01-2009, 12:51 AM

digitalising

11-01-2009, 01:24 AM

That is sensible and while some would suggest loco parentis, many of us believe the school should do a better job of forewarning students. At Gtwn, any student could contact campus police and get escorted home from the Med School library after 11pm. Undergrads had this option available to them as well. 14,000 students between undergrads, grads, law students, and med students. Is it absolutely SGUs responsibility to protect all students within Grenada or SVG environs? Of course not. Is it in their best interest to provide as much security as humanly possible? I would think so. Unfortunately, we hear too many stories of them continuing to fall short in this endeavor.

Jackb

How have they fallen short here? There are off-route shuttles that will take students home at night and security will drive you home as well. If you or a friend are hurt ANYWHERE, even in your house off-campus, call 777 and the school will arrange for someone to meet you at the school clinic, and then get you to the hospital in their own ambulance if necessary.

I agree with bbm's previous post though - maybe students don't have the proper expectations. A lot of the incoming class is straight out of college, which may mean that they've not had to find a place on their own before. My landlord was surprised by the level of detail I put into clarifying my lease, and I wouldn't have known what to look for in an apartment and what to iron out in a lease if I hadn't lived in my own place during undergrad.

The Crime Reports have not made a mention of a theft on campus (although not everything makes it on there), but here is the report for what I assume is the OP's incident: https://qp2.sgu.edu/QuickPlace/grenadacrimereports/Main.nsf/h_Library/673F9D8A0DF1441B04257631007A30F7/?OpenDocument

And SVG? Do you go to this school? I'm a little confused as that campus has been shut down for quite a while, mainly because of the security incidents that were apparently rampant.

jackbnimble

11-01-2009, 05:56 AM

Do you go to this school? I'm a little confused as that campus has been shut down for quite a while, mainly because of the security incidents that were apparently rampant.

No, like I wrote..I went to medical school in Washington DC. I am sorry but does that mean I cannot have an opinion about SGUs response to safety or find fault with your excuses ala.... many in the class are just out of college? Caveat emptor and move on, huh?

Oh, one more thing. Glad SVG got closed down. That is a step in the right direction. No I did not know. When I was on this forum the last time, a friend was deciding between SGU, Flinders, and BGU. She ended up in Israel. I also have a close friend (ex-wife actually) that went to SGU.

jackb

digitalising

11-01-2009, 07:46 AM

No, like I wrote..I went to medical school in Washington DC. I am sorry but does that mean I cannot have an opinion about SGUs response to safety or find fault with your excuses ala.... many in the class are just out of college? Caveat emptor and move on, huh?

Oh, one more thing. Glad SVG got closed down. That is a step in the right direction. No I did not know. When I was on this forum the last time, a friend was deciding between SGU, Flinders, and BGU. She ended up in Israel. I also have a close friend (ex-wife actually) that went to SGU.

jackb

It's not that you can't have an opinion, but it's difficult to have an informed opinion when you have not experienced it first-hand and don't know the actual facilities and services that ARE available. The fact that you did not know that SVG was shut down, something that happened over two years ago, means to me that you probably don't have a broader view of what's going on on the ground at SGU beyond what you've read on this forum (or more narrowly, in this thread) where a minority of students post.

My comment regarding "just out of college" was not an excuse but an explanation. Unfortunately, many people seem to equate the two.

jackbnimble

11-01-2009, 08:10 AM

It's not that you can't have an opinion, but it's difficult to have an informed opinion when you have not experienced it first-hand and don't know the actual facilities and services that ARE available.
...
My comment regarding "just out of college" was not an excuse but an explanation. Unfortunately, many people seem to equate the two.

I would simply welcome efforts to address the issues and decrease the frequency of them as opposed to endless defense mechanisms. Don't worry, it will not undermine your degree merely by acknowledging the dangers you and your colleagues face. The facilities and services strike many of us as INADEQUATE and reactive rather than proactive.

Sincerely,
jack

digitalising

11-01-2009, 08:38 AM

I would simply welcome efforts to address the issues and decrease the frequency of them as opposed to endless defense mechanisms. Don't worry, it will not undermine your offshore degree merely by acknowledging the dangers you and your colleagues face. The facilities and services strike many of us as INADEQUATE and reactive rather than proactive.

Sincerely,
jack

Thanks for the off-shore degree crack. I haven't heard one in a while. Ironically, I learned about this school from SGU graduates who were doing residency at Georgetown while I was there doing my graduate degree.

Go Hoyas. /sarcasm

Anyway, I went back and found the Georgetown blotter post you were referring to (I believe it is http://www.valuemd.com/st-georges-university-school-medicine/124837-yet-another-crime.html#post528748). SGU does the same thing, although one has to have student-level access to read the crime reports.

As for ways to improve security:
- Housing seminars for those who have not rented before and may be unaware of what to look for in a lease.
- Security seminars to help know what to look for in a building, I.E. bars on the windows (not that this would have helped in this situation since the intruder came in from the balcony), properly trimmed bushes and trees, etc.
- A list of approved landlords - this is already in place if one contacts the housing offices.
- Students realizing that if they're drunk, they probably shouldn't walk through areas where people are known to be regularly mugged (you'll probably accuse me of blaming the victim here, and you'd probably be right to be honest). 5 EC for a cab isn't going to kill you when you've spent a lot more than that on your night out. I know that the OP was about a home invasion, but most of the incidents on the crime reports are muggings.
- Reading the crime reports regularly to understand what's going on and where (Hill Crest Drive, for example, seems to be a favored target for activity, as was Hummingbird Lane in LAE last term).

I am an advocate for taking care of your own safety (not quite to the degree of J.P. at Hopkins, but I wasn't exactly torn up about what happened after two of my fellow students were murdered), which is not always possible, but a little education and common sense do go a long way. That said, no one should be a victim of crime, but there are criminals out there, and saying that you should go along your merry while someone else takes care of security is neither logical nor effective.

Your suggestions to improve our "inadequate and reactive" security?

kananaskis_girl

11-01-2009, 08:49 AM

last general warning on this thread, trolling will not be condoned....edit your postings to comply with the TOS

jackbnimble

11-01-2009, 09:37 AM

last general warning on this thread, trolling will not be condoned....edit your postings to comply with the TOS

Are you referring to me? I simply find SGU's institutional laisse faire approach to student safety to be anachronistic to what we are supposed to be about. If you will point to the necessary edits, I will replace those with "SGU rocks" or the verbiage of your choice.

Without further guidance, I do not know which posts to edit.

Thanks,

Jack

jackbnimble

11-01-2009, 09:57 AM

As for ways to improve security:
- Housing seminars for those who have not rented before and may be unaware of what to look for in a lease.
- Security seminars to help know what to look for in a building, I.E. bars on the windows (not that this would have helped in this situation since the intruder came in from the balcony), properly trimmed bushes and trees, etc.
- A list of approved landlords - this is already in place if one contacts the housing offices.
- Students realizing that if they're drunk, they probably shouldn't walk through areas where people are known to be regularly mugged (you'll probably accuse me of blaming the victim here, and you'd probably be right to be honest). 5 EC for a cab isn't going to kill you when you've spent a lot more than that on your night out. I know that the OP was about a home invasion, but most of the incidents on the crime reports are muggings.
- Reading the crime reports regularly to understand what's going on and where (Hill Crest Drive, for example, seems to be a favored target for activity, as was Hummingbird Lane in LAE last term).
...
Your suggestions to improve our "inadequate and reactive" security?

I did not attend; however, all of those as starters. Proactive transparency rather than reactive defensive actions. Uncomfortable subjects warrant more, not less, discourse.

Again, it was inexcusable that some students at SGU found out about actual sexual assault, albeit off campus, via VMD. Some of the general discussion was along the lines of, "not wanting to air our dirty laundry." I find that grossly inadequate and lacking. But again, you seem to have decided my having not attended SGU negates my commentary. That's fine. I believe Sam and others echoed it and she was a student on the island at the time.

Eureka, we agree...go Hoyas!

Jack

Phrenetic

11-01-2009, 10:36 AM

Thanks for the off-shore degree crack. I haven't heard one in a while. Ironically, I learned about this school from SGU graduates who were doing residency at Georgetown while I was there doing my graduate degree. Go Hoyas.

Anyway, I went back and found the Georgetown blotter post you were referring to (I believe it is http://www.valuemd.com/st-georges-university-school-medicine/124837-yet-another-crime.html#post528748). SGU does the same thing, although one has to have student-level access to read the crime reports.

As for ways to improve security:
- Housing seminars for those who have not rented before and may be unaware of what to look for in a lease.
- Security seminars to help know what to look for in a building, I.E. bars on the windows (not that this would have helped in this situation since the intruder came in from the balcony), properly trimmed bushes and trees, etc.
- A list of approved landlords - this is already in place if one contacts the housing offices.
- Students realizing that if they're drunk, they probably shouldn't walk through areas where people are known to be regularly mugged (you'll probably accuse me of blaming the victim here, and you'd probably be right to be honest). 5 EC for a cab isn't going to kill you when you've spent a lot more than that on your night out. I know that the OP was about a home invasion, but most of the incidents on the crime reports are muggings.
- Reading the crime reports regularly to understand what's going on and where (Hill Crest Drive, for example, seems to be a favored target for activity, as was Hummingbird Lane in LAE last term).

Your suggestions to improve our "inadequate and reactive" security?

The 3 points I have bolded are already being done (I am a first termer here on the island).

There is a very nice checklist document on SGU Post that details all the safety features you should look for in a rental place and the points you should clarify before signing a lease.
There is also a recommended off-campus housing list available from the Housing Office.
There are also seminars on island safety and campus safety which are part of mandatory freshman orientation. Some of my classmates chose to skip those sessions, and if they do something that was clearly warned against in the sessions and encounter trouble, they have nobody to blame but themselves.
The crime reports are posted and updated regularly on SGU Post.

Jackbnimble cannot possibly know any of this (not that it is any of his business, IMHO), because he doesn't have access to any of these STUDENT resources. The information and resources are for SGU students, not for people who for some strange reason that may be best understood with the help of a therapist, feel the need to deride a school which they have never attended and never even stepped foot in.

Did an SGU student take what Jackbnimble thought should have been his residency spot, I wonder?

If I went on a Georgetown med school board and started criticizing their facilities, safety, etc. I would be labeled as a troll immediately. We are being more than tolerant here.

Phrenetic

11-01-2009, 10:49 AM

Are you referring to me? I simply find SGU's institutional laisse faire approach to student safety to be anachronistic to what we are supposed to be about. If you will point to the necessary edits, I will replace those with "SGU rocks" or the verbiage of your choice.

Without further guidance, I do not know which posts to edit.

Thanks,

Jack

I'm curious to know what you mean by "institutional laisse faire approach" and even more curious to know the data and its sources upon which you are basing this grand pronouncement.

I'm even more curious to know what you mean by "anachronistic to what we are supposed to be about". What are we "supposed to be about"? And who are "we"?

digitalising

11-01-2009, 10:52 AM

I did not attend; however, all of those as starters. Proactive transparency rather than reactive defensive actions. Uncomfortable subjects warrant more, not less, discourse.

Again, it was inexcusable that some students at SGU found out about actual sexual assault, albeit off campus, via VMD. Some of the general discussion was along the lines of, "not wanting to air our dirty laundry." I find that grossly inadequate and lacking. But again, you seem to have decided my having not attended SGU negates my commentary.

You are referring to an incident from two years ago from a thread that has been dead for the same amount of time. If you think that nothing has changed since then you are seriously mistaken.

Rather than your commentary, perhaps you can talk about the "proactive" measures to which you allude?

Phrenetic

11-01-2009, 10:59 AM

accidental double post

TheFooBar

11-01-2009, 11:19 AM

I did not attend; however, all of those as starters. Proactive transparency rather than reactive defensive actions. Uncomfortable subjects warrant more, not less, discourse.

Do you have any specific suggestions on what should improve? Your suggestion is somewhat nonsensical buzz words ("Proactive transparency", "address the issues") with random insults. As it stands it is impossible to know if "Proactive transparency" has been implemented because it says nothing specific or constructive.

Now if you had said "implement a list of crimes reported to SGU that are accessible to all students in a timely fashion" that would be a specific (and even constructive) comment that we could tell you if it had been implemented since you were last informed years ago that we lacked ... "proactive transparency."

Again, it was inexcusable that some students at SGU found out about actual sexual assault, albeit off campus, via VMD. Some of the general discussion was along the lines of, "not wanting to air our dirty laundry." I find that grossly inadequate and lacking.

Without a lot of additional details it's difficult to comment. Perhaps you wouldn't mind if we keep the conversation in the here and now? If you feel we need to rehash something you're going to need to provide the details or a link.

Also, by pointing out deplorable behavior doesn't that minimize horrendous behavior? I remember reading that but I couldn't get any specifics on how it worked, though.

But again, you seem to have decided my having not attended SGU negates my commentary. That's fine. I believe Sam and others echoed it and she was a student on the island at the time.

Your knowledge is clearly years behind, and worse your out of date knowledge doesn't seem to bother you in the slightest. Since you don't humor us with specifics we don't even know how many years behind your knowledge is. Our knowledge is current and yes, that means it should hold more weight that yours until you come and meet us in 2009.

Your comments may have been valid years ago, but it is impossible to really understand your position and if it is still relevant since you prefer to insult us, use meaningless buzz words, and take every opportunity to construe comments in the most skewed fashion to support your years old theories rather than have a constructive conversation with us.

One last time - do you have any specific suggestions on what should improve or do differently here?

ravigoteti

11-01-2009, 09:45 PM

nonetheless they did not inform housing of said switch, so technically the girls are not living on campus and are occupying a room that is not theirs...while maybe the school could be more sympathetic, there is no real responsiblity to allow them to stay in a room that is not assigned to them which they are not paying for. Basically subletting is not allowed and visitors are only allowed to stay for a week per term and if you are doing either generally you stay under the radar...

and its not like they couldn't have made that switch legally...when i wanted to get out of my on-campus housing to live off campus, all i had to do was find someone who was not already on the wait list to take my spot...i posted it on sgupost and within a week i had someone who was interested...done deal. They could have just been upfront with their plan and it they had, maybe they would have been able to stay on campus, since they would have been assigned the room.

I agree.

In general, if there's any problem, the best thing to do is to contact the respective department for help. Yes, there may be officials/secretaries/whoever, who are not responsive or helpful. I've myself had encountered such situations but the first thing one could do is contact housing and let them know the situation. I'm sure they could have helped with something.

I'm not trying to give an advice or anything here. I very much sympathize with the victims and it must have been a traumatic experience getting robbed twice in midst of exams (?).

One thing that baffles me is the security post checks. Like someone already mentioned before, the guards just check the vehicles and not the people who just walk into the campus. I think its high time they change that. You cannot have random locals wandering into the campus. Its certainly a cause of concern.

Wh0Kares

11-02-2009, 07:27 AM

jackbnimble

11-02-2009, 08:57 AM

not sure how our facilities strike you as anything when you have zero idea or experience with our 'offshore' facilities

As they say in legal parlance, you are claiming facts not into evidence.

Actually, I have been there twice. Furthermore, I received PMs and emails from nine current and past students concerning safety at SGU. I provided one of them a contact to a NIH lab. Not to mention, I did not do my residency in a vacuum...that is, I know many SGU grads. Digi was correctly pointing out that my information may be dated...yet he/she did not ascertain that to be the case. Were it dated, I would have simply pulled up the thread from two years ago and reposted it. Instead, the current subject heading makes the point much better than I ever could...Sgu does not care about you or your safety...and that thread commenced last week. I was not the OP, one of your classmates was. Was that simply one person's experience? If I am to believe the PMs and emails I have received, apparently not. If you are so convinced we are wrong, then you have nothing to be concerned about. I simply believe much more could be done and that the school admin should provide more support. As a concerned parent of a teenage daughter that has been traumatized in the past, I assure you that not all that find fault with inadequate safety are trolls.

I was asked by the "first termer" that felt qualified to prescribe therapy what I meant by safety being what "we are all about." I would hope it is self-evident but as physicians and medical students--health without safety is short lived.

Off to catch a flight to a medical meeting in Denver complete with snow...

Be safe,
jack

Wh0Kares

11-02-2009, 09:43 AM

As they say in legal parlance, you are claiming facts not into evidence.

Actually, I have been there twice. Furthermore, I received PMs and emails from nine current and past students concerning safety at SGU. I provided one of them a contact to a NIH lab. Not to mention, I did not do my residency in a vacuum...that is, I know many SGU grads. Digi was correctly pointing out that my information may be dated...yet he/she did not ascertain that to be the case. Were it dated, I would have simply pulled up the thread from two years ago and reposted it. Instead, the current subject heading makes the point much better than I ever could...Sgu does not care about you or your safety...and that thread commenced last week. I was not the OP, one of your classmates was. Was that simply one person's experience? If I am to believe the PMs and emails I have received, apparently not. If you are so convinced we are wrong, then you have nothing to be concerned about. I simply believe much more could be done and that the school admin should provide more support. As a concerned parent of a teenage daughter that has been traumatized in the past, I assure you that not all that find fault with inadequate safety are trolls.

I was asked by the "first termer" that felt qualified to prescribe therapy what I meant by safety being what "we are all about." I would hope it is self-evident but as physicians and medical students--health without safety is short lived.

Off to catch a flight to a medical meeting in Denver complete with snow...

Be safe,
jack

find fault with inadequate safety? oh please where on earth would find a place that has no complaints of safety? NO WHERE....you got 9 emails that said they are concerned about safety? woopdy doo..ill get you 1000 people on the island that never had a safety problem...

i don't have a problem admitting that there are safety problems down here because after all grenada is part of the real world not a wonderland...what i have a problem is your lack of knowledge about the current facilities and security measures that we have and your self-proclaimed right to criticize something just because you 'visited' here twice god knows when and got a few emails of concern....

it does not take away from your 'onshore' degree to step aside and stop commenting on issues that you have very limited first hand experience on and leave it up to the people who actually live down here..its only common sense no?...i can name countless number of people including myself who have been living off campus and never had a single 'safety' problem, so your 9 outdated emails is really no basis to make conclusions regarding the safety of a country or the schools attempts to do the best it can...

if you have taken stats in the past, you would know your sample size and your indirect ways of concluding facts is laughable.

digitalising

11-02-2009, 11:04 AM

Digi was correctly pointing out that my information may be dated...yet he/she did not ascertain that to be the case.

Actually, I did ascertain this to be the case as you were alleging that the school was covering up what had happened and providing the SVG thread as evidence. Furthermore, you thought the SVG campus was still open, indicating that your knowledge of the school is at best not current and at worst woefully inadequate.

Sgu does not care about you or your safety Again, while your suggestions as to how to improve security are welcome (but unsurprisingly absent from all of your posts), you do not have enough experience to make this accusation. As I and others have referenced in previous posts, SGU does take pains to protect its students, both from crime and from injury. Whereas in the States you would have to go to an ER if injured and wait for hours, at SGU you call security and they have a doctor or physician extender on campus to assess your condition and provide treatment as necessary. Furthermore, name one other school which would move an entire class into the States after a hurricane so that they could finish their term. In any case, you have chosen to ignore these points in favor of repeating the same tired arguments.

As WK said, nine e-mails out of the hundreds of people who visit this forum and the thousands who go to this school is a next to insignificant sample size. I think it's nice of you to help get people contacts, no matter what you may think of our degrees.

Enjoy your trip.

TheFooBar

11-02-2009, 03:21 PM

Digi was correctly pointing out that my information may be dated

You are incorrect. Not "may be" dated. Your information is dated. You're commenting about SVG without understanding that it has been closed for quite some time. You made exactly zero effort to update your years old information. The clear assumption you made is everything you knew years ago still applies today.

Was that simply one person's experience? If you had read, you'd understand that it was two people's experience and the issue the have with the school is them ejecting them from campus for squatting in a dorm room.

I have faith in your ability to skew this to meet your needs, but it isn't a matter of safety but contract law (since you seem to think this is somehow a legal setting). The girls were living somewhere without authorization, apparently in a sublease where the original tenets didn't have the right to sublet. That's the event that precipitated the OP.

If I am to believe the PMs and emails I have received, apparently not. Were these PMs and emails you received years ago, back in the days of SVG?

If you are so convinced we are wrong, then you have nothing to be concerned about. If you are correct you could do us the favor and humor us with specifics on how things can be improved.

I simply believe much more could be done and that the school admin should provide more support. So we're back to meaningless catch phrases. "Provide more support." Your comment is so vague, non-specific, and meaningless the school could literally hand out jock-straps and claim they provided more support for the student body.

To answer my own question, you can't provide a single specific suggestion of what should be improved.

As a concerned parent of a teenage daughter that has been traumatized in the past, I assure you that not all that find fault with inadequate safety are trolls. We're not saying that all people who find fault with inadequate safety are trolls. Just you. You're even trolling the SGU Forum moderator. Then again, maybe that's how it was done years ago.

jackbnimble

11-02-2009, 04:25 PM

... indicating that your knowledge of the school is at best not current and at worst woefully inadequate.

If you say so; however, you might not realize that I keep getting information from your colleagues about safety issues at your school. I have had two residents in the past two years that graduated from SGU. Is n sufficiently robust to make conclusions complete with confidence levels? Of course not, but I never claimed such. I received about 30 emails from nine different people, in some cases we became friends, in other cases they were simply telling me about further instances. You are correct, we never corresponded about the demise of Vinnies. As I understand it, that is probably a good thing. When this latest thread came up, again it was not my original post, but the subject is ..Sgu does not care about you or your safety, it was forwarded to me. So while the most egregious case I know of (sexual assault) is two years old, other examples abound. You may chose to discount my opinions, I trust you are less cavalier with your classmates'.

you do not have enough experience to make this accusation.

Ok. but I disagree. You would think I was advocating limiting IMGs to community FP residencies in North Dakota. I am simply promoting safety and that SGU handle the lack thereof in a more constructive manner.

As I and others have referenced in previous posts, SGU does take pains to protect its students, both from crime and from injury.

No, it appears to me, they take pains to limit the fallout when crime and/or injury information gets out. There is a difference and it is not really so subtle.

Whereas in the States you would have to go to an ER if injured and wait for hours, at SGU you call security and they have a doctor or physician extender on campus to assess your condition and provide treatment as necessary.

Not really.

Furthermore, name one other school which would move an entire class into the States after a hurricane so that they could finish their term.

You discount sexual assault because it was two years ago while pointing to a hurricane evacuation many more years ago? Are you serious? As I understand the history books, the evacuation was handled well by SGU. I will give you that.

As WK said, nine e-mails out of the hundreds of people who visit this forum and the thousands who go to this school is a next to insignificant sample size.

Nine individuals, nearly 30 emails/PMs. If every email is going to be evaluated for statistical significance, few would be read. Furthermore if I regaled you with stories of a good SGU grad that I worked with in LA (true,) you would probably accept the compliment, regardless of the length of time ago that happened. Again, I would think the fact that many are not assaulted does not limit the impact to those whom are or minimize the trauma they suffer.

In closing, I believe the laisse faire approach of sweeping bad news under the carpet is most unfortunate and rampant at SGU. You don't share that sentiment...the good news, in that case, is that you are there. The good, for me, is that I am not.

More will likely forward me information, but next time I will just read, shake my head, and not respond.

Best wishes,
Jackb

failure2thrive

11-02-2009, 04:37 PM

I just want to say that I think security on campus is great. I know off campus is a different story, but I would never feel the need to discourage someone from coming to school here over security concerns. The few times I have had reason to interact with security employees here were for only minor problems which were handled promptly and professionally.

Maybe we could all go get our own machetes to carry around so we can feel safer off campus.

Kongakut

11-02-2009, 04:46 PM

Right and some guy holding up the manager of Glover's with a gun makes the campus feel really safe. There is no lock on the SGU door. It's wide open.

MaxPower311

11-02-2009, 04:54 PM

I always wondered that when I was there...checking every vehicle but anyone being able to walk in

To be fair though, many US colleges try to keep crime hush hush, or not do everything they can to make students aware of off-campus crime with student victims...I'm thinking of one big school in particular but don't want to say the name b/c I may be completely wrong as to which school it is

TheFooBar

11-02-2009, 05:25 PM

In closing, I believe the laisse faire approach of sweeping bad news under the carpet is most unfortunate and rampant at SGU.

Last night one of the food establishments on campus was robbed at gun point to the tune of $1,500 EC (about $566 US). How do I know this? Because SGU posted the information less than 24 hours after the event for every student to see.

Can you explain how this fits in with your insistence that SGU is "sweeping bad news under the carpet?" Because if there was something to sweep under the carpet, an on-campus armed robbery seems like an excellent candidate.

I believe you refuse to review and revise your beliefs contrary to any evidence provided.

bbm113

11-02-2009, 05:47 PM

repeat post.

bbm113

11-02-2009, 05:49 PM

lol, is everyone still arguing that SGU shouldn't do anything about this? or is it his own fault because he should have chained down his tin jar with his 1500EC in it like we have to chain down our laptops on campus because the maids leave your door wide open??

Phrenetic

11-02-2009, 07:55 PM

Here is the crime report from Georgetown University for the month of October (52 incidents total):

Please see the post by TheFooBar below - a far better formatted one than I could manage.

Thanks TheFooBar!

TheFooBar

11-02-2009, 08:10 PM

Allow me.

October 01 2009
Theft: Clothes were taken from a laundry room.
08-10612
0ctober 01 2009
1623

Harbin Hall
No suspects or witnesses have been identified
October 02 2009
Assault-Simple: Two students were removed from the area after fighting each other. One student was slightly injured.
08-10621
October 02 2009
0220

Darnall Hall
The persons involved have been identified. Both parties declined to press charges.
October 03 2009
Assault-Simple: DPS took into custody a disorderly, combative male ( non student) who had refused to leave after legally instructed to do so.
08-10634
October 03 2009
0044

Copley Hall
The subject was identified and arrested by MPD for disorderly conduct and assault on a police officer.
October 04 2009
Assault-Simple: Two students were fighting which resulted in one of the students being injured.
08-10651
October 04 2009
0158

Village C
S1 and S2 were identified. Both parties declined to press charges.
October 04 2009
Theft: Clothes were taken from a laundry room.
08-10657
October 04 2009
1805

Copley Hall
No suspects or witnesses have been identified.
October 05 2009
Theft : The complainant stated that she had her go card and key stolen while the items were on the bench.
08-10661
October 05 2009
1830

Kennedy Hall
Case is under investigation.
October 06 2009
Theft: A secured bicycle was removed from a bicycle rack.
08-10671
October 06 2009
0800

Harbin Hall
No suspects or witnesses have been identified
October 07 2009
Unlawful Entry: A suspect entered the premises without authorization after officially being barred.
08-10674
October 04 2009
0244

Copley Hall
A warrant was taken out.
October 07 2009
Theft: The complainant stated that she had her tote bag which contained several items stolen from a cubicle.
08-10679
October 07 2009
1830

Lauinger Library
No suspects or witnesses have been identified.
October 07 2009
Theft: A secured bicycle was taken from a bike rack.
08-10680
October 07 2009
2000

Village B
No suspects or witnesses have been identified.
October 09 2009
Destruction of Property: Unknown suspects threw a brick at a residence shattering the window.
08-10705
October 09 2009
0232

3600 Block & Prospect St. NW
No suspects or witnesses have been identified.
October 15 2009
Theft: Clothes were taken from a laundry room.
08-10782
October 15 2009
952

Kennedy Hall
No suspects or witnesses have been identified.
October 15 2009
Theft: A brief case was taken from the bookstore.
08-10785
October 15 2009
1346

Leavey Center
Case is under investigation.
October 15 2009
Drug Violation: Unknown substance tested positive for marijuana
08-10792
October 15 2009
1839

Village A
Evidence was confiscated. Owner was identified.
October 16 2009
Drug Violation: Unknown substance tested positive for marijuana
08-10801
October 16 2009
2042

Harbin Hall
Evidence was confiscated. Owner was identified.
October 16 2009
Theft: A firearm was removed from the bag of an off duty Law Enforcement Officer.
08-10802
October 16 2009
2241

McDonough Gym
Fire arm was returned to owner. Subject was identified and arrested
October 16 2009
Concealed Weapon: Subject from case 08-10802 was identified and caught with the fire arm.
08-10803
October 16 2009
2248

Village C West
MPD responded and arrested subject
October 17 2009
Drug Violation: Unknown substance tested positive for marijuana
08-10805
October 17 2009
0013

Village C West
Evidence was confiscated. Owner was identified.
October 17 2009
Drug Violation: Unknown substance tested positive for marijuana
08-10807
October 17 2009
0333

Darnall Hall
Evidence was confiscated. Owner was identified.
October 17 2009
Theft: Cash was removed from a wallet left in an unsecured area
08-10812
October 17 2009
1807

McShain Lounge
No suspects or witnesses have been identified
October 17 2009
Theft: A jacket was removed from a coat rack
08-10813
October 17 2009
0023

Copley Formal Lounge
No suspects or witnesses have been identified.
October 18 2009
Assault-Simple: The complainant reported being involved in a fight. He did not report any injuries.
08-10814
October 18 2009
0123

Village A
The second party left the scene before his identification could be verified.
October 18 2009
Assault-Simple: Two students were removed from the area after fighting each other.
08-10832
October 18 2009
1715

Village C East
The persons involved have been identified. MPD was notified.
October 18 2009
Robbery-Weapon: A employee was robbed by an unknown male with knife. She received a minor injury.
08-10833
October 18 2009
1830

Leavey Center
MPD notified. The suspect was not identified. Case is under investigation.
October 19 2009
Burglary 1: An unknown suspect threw a rock at a professor's office and stole a university laptop.
08-10837
October 19 2009
0801

Harris Building
No suspects or witnesses have been identified.
October 19 2009
Theft: Cash and an IPod were removed from a gym bag when left in an unsecured area.
08-10843
October 17 2009
1330

McShain Lounge
No suspects or witnesses have been identified
October 19 2009
Unlawful Entry: A suspect entered the premises without authorization after officially being barred by management.
08-10849
October 19 2009

1739

Epicurean Restaurant
The suspect was officially barred.
October 20 2009
Assault-Simple: A complainant reported being assaulted by a suspect and as a result, he received injuries.
08-10858
October 20 2009
1441

Darnall Hall Roadway
The suspect was arrested.
October 21 2009
Theft: An unknown male was apprehended as he attempted to leave the bookstore with unpaid merchandise.
08-10865
October 21 2009
1739

Leavey Center
Subject has been identified and was barred from campus. MPD responded and arrested him.
October 22 2009
Theft: An unknown suspect stole a video projector from an unsecured area.
08-10876
October 22 2009
0845

Reiss Science
No suspect or witnesses have been identified.
October 23 2009
Theft: An unknown person stole a book bag form a cubicle.
08-01878
October 23 2009
1448

Lauinger Library
No suspects or witnesses have been identified.
October 23 2009
Theft: The subjects stole a hand sanitizer dispenser from an unknown location.
08-10881
October 23 2009
0245

Unknown
Suspects have been identified.
October 23 2009
Theft: Unknown persons removed banners from a fence.
08-10885
October 23 2009
1415

North Kehoe Field
No suspects or witnesses have been identified.
October 24 2009
Harassment: Complainant received unwanted corresponence from a suspect.
08-10899
October 24 2009
1708

Harbin Hall
Suspect has been identified. Case is under investigation.
October 24 2009
Theft: Suspects stole two traffic signs from a public street.
08-10893
October 24 2009
0157

McCarthy Hall
Suspects have been identified.
October 25 2009
Theft: A wallet was stolen from an unsecured area.
08-10909
October 25 2009
1505

Lauinger Library
No suspect or witnesses have been identified.
October 25 2009
Theft: A wallet was stolen from an unsecured area.
08-10911
October 25 2009
1700

ICC
No suspects or witnesses have been identified.
October 27 2009
Theft: An unknown person stole a laptop from an unsecured area.
08-10929
October 27 2009
1725

McDonough Gym
No suspects or witnesses have been identified.
October 27 2009
Theft: An unknown person stole a jacket.
08-10931
October 27 2009
2130

Lauinger Library
No suspects or witnesses have been identified.
October 28 2009
Theft: Cell Phone and wallet were stolen from an unsecured locker.
08-10937
October 28 2009
1630

Yates Field House
No suspects or witnesses have been identified.
October 28 2009
Theft: IPod, cash and credit cards were stolen from a gym bag when left in an unsecured area.
08-10940
October 28 2009
2200

McDonough Gym
No suspects or witnesses have been identified.
October 29 2009
Drug Violation: Unknown substance tested positive for marijuana
08-10953
October 29 2009
1713

Village A
Evidence was confiscated. Owner was identified.
October 29 2009
Drug Violation: Unknown substance tested positive for marijuana
08-10956
October 29 2009
2152

Village A
Evidence was confiscated. Owner was identified.
October 30 2009
Theft: A secured bicycle was removed from a bicycle rack.
08-10967
October 30 2009
1436

Lauinger Library
No suspects or witnesses have been identified.
October 31 2009
Theft: Clothes were taken from a laundry room.
08-10982
October 31 2009
1449

McCarthy Hall
No suspects or witnesses have been identified.
October 31 2009
Burglary I: An unknown suspect entered into a residence and stole a laptop and camera.
08-10985
October 31 2009
2011

McCarthy Hall
MPD notified, case is under investigation.
October 31 2009
Burglary I: An unknown suspect entered into a residence and stole a cell phone.
08-10987
October 31 2009
2151

McCarthy Hall
MPD notified, case is under investigation.
October 31 2009
Burglary I: An unknown suspect entered into a residence and stole a laptop.
08-10988
October 31 2009
2149

McCarthy Hall
MPD notified, case is under investigation.
October 31 2009
Burglary I: An unknown suspect entered into a residence and stole two cameras.
08-10989
October 31 2009
2151

McCarthy Hall
MPD notified, case is under investigation.
October 31 2009
Burglary I: An unknown suspect entered into a residence and stole a laptop.
08-10990
October 31 2009
2153

McCarthy Hall
MPD notified,case is under investigation.
October 31 2009
Burglary I: An unknown suspect entered into a residence and stole a computer.
08-10992
October 31 2009
2245

McCarthy Hall
MPD notified, case is under investigation.
October 31 2009
Burglary I: An unknown suspect entered into a residence and stole a laptop, cell phone and Ipod.
08-10993
October 31 2009
2149

McCarthy Hall
MPD notified, case is under investigation.

Phrenetic

11-02-2009, 08:17 PM

And here is the SGU crime report, and not just for October, but from August 30th until last night (11 incidents total):

Grenada Robbery (https://qp2.sgu.edu/QuickPlace/grenadacrimereports/Main.nsf/h_Library/2A8E92D85104BB620425766200587531/?OpenDocument)

Community Advisory – Grenada – True Blue – Glovers Restaurant – Robbery Posted on 2 November 2009 – 11:10AM On 1 November at approximately 11:15PM a male supervisor at the Food services (Glovers restaurant) reported that around 11:05PM on Sunday 1st November,...

GrenadaTheft/Vandalism (https://qp2.sgu.edu/QuickPlace/grenadacrimereports/Main.nsf/h_Library/AE2F8350267B35480425765F0081056E/?OpenDocument)

Community Advisory – Grenada – True Blue, – Dirt Road Near The Main Security Booth – Theft/Vandalism Posted on 30 October 2009 – 5:30PM On 30 October A fifth term vet student, residing off campus, reported that on Thursday 29th October, 2009, she parked her Suzuki...

Grenada Robbery (https://qp2.sgu.edu/QuickPlace/grenadacrimereports/Main.nsf/h_Library/612936175313BA9F0425764D006F6DD7/?OpenDocument)

Community Advisory – Grenada – True Blue – Rahaman Apartments, Bayfront – Robbery Posted on 12 October 2009 – 4:15PM On October 10th between the hours of 4:00AM and 9:00AM a perpetrator(s) entered the students apartment and stole the following items: one (1)...

Grenada Robbery (https://qp2.sgu.edu/QuickPlace/grenadacrimereports/Main.nsf/h_Library/301DCFE2EAC80F0D042576410077B566/?OpenDocument)

Community Advisory – Grenada –True Blue – Human Anatomy Wet Lab – Robbery Posted on 30th September 2009 – 5:20PM A female student residing at the Grand Anse campus, reported that on Monday 21st September, 2009, she visited the human anatomy wet lab around 7PM...

Grenada Robbery (https://qp2.sgu.edu/QuickPlace/grenadacrimereports/Main.nsf/h_Library/C68E94811D54909C04257641007739F2/?OpenDocument)

Community Advisory – Grenada –True Blue – Human Anatomy Wet Lab – Robbery Posted on 30th September 2009 – 5:20PM A female student residing off campus reported that on Monday 28th September, 2009, she went to class at the human anatomy wet lab at 5:30PM. She...

Grenada Robbery (https://qp2.sgu.edu/QuickPlace/grenadacrimereports/Main.nsf/h_Library/D9AC7B807E08640804257641007526BC/?OpenDocument)

Community Advisory – Grenada –True Blue – Human Anatomy Dry Lab – Robbery Posted on 30th September 2009 – 5:10PM A female student residing at the True Blue Campus reported that on Tuesday 15th September, 2009, she went to the human anatomy dry lab around 7:45AM....

Grenada Robbery (https://qp2.sgu.edu/QuickPlace/grenadacrimereports/Main.nsf/h_Library/92C558BDBB5FF9DE0425764100750F8F/?OpenDocument)

Community Advisory – Grenada –True Blue – Human Anatomy Wet Lab – Robbery Posted on 30th September 2009 – 5:10PM A female student residing at the True Blue Campus reported that on Sunday 30th August, 2009, a quantity of money was stolen from her purse. She...

Grenada Robbery (https://qp2.sgu.edu/QuickPlace/grenadacrimereports/Main.nsf/h_Library/673F9D8A0DF1441B04257631007A30F7/?OpenDocument)

Community Advisory – Grenada –True Blue – Hill Crest Drive – Robbery Posted on 14 September 2009 – 10:00AM At about 8:50PM on Friday 11th September, 2009, a female student residing at Hill Crest Drive, True Blue, reported that someone had just robbed her and...

Grenada Robbery (https://qp2.sgu.edu/QuickPlace/grenadacrimereports/Main.nsf/h_Library/3C0E2D830A863F340425762A00529D77/?OpenDocument)

Community Advisory – Grenada –True Blue – Between the Vet Teaching Hospital (V.T.H) and True Blue Campus – Robbery Posted on 7 September 2009 – 10:00AM At about 1:40AM on Saturday 5th September, 2009, a female student who resides at the True Blue Campus, reported...

Grenada Robbery (https://qp2.sgu.edu/QuickPlace/grenadacrimereports/Main.nsf/h_Library/88574F2B8B4530CF0425762A00528941/?OpenDocument)

Community Advisory – Grenada –True Blue – Between the Vet Teaching Hospital (V.T.H) and True Blue Campus – Robbery Posted on 7 September 2009 – 10:00AM At about 1:30AM on Saturday 5th September, 2009, two (2) students, one male and one female, reported to The...

Grenada Assault (https://qp2.sgu.edu/QuickPlace/grenadacrimereports/Main.nsf/h_Library/E74813C984F0148E042576260071E413/?OpenDocument)

Community Advisory – Grenada –Grand Anse – IGA Supermarket – Assault Posted on 3 September 2009 – 4:30PM On Thursday 3rd September, 2009, at 2:30PM A female student residing off campus, reported that around 7:30PM on Tuesday 1st September, 2009, she and her...

jackbnimble

11-02-2009, 08:48 PM

Here is the crime report from Georgetown University for the month of October:

But then that is not a problem for you as you are at SGU.

Jackb

kananaskis_girl

11-02-2009, 09:43 PM

But then that is not a problem for you as you are at SGU.

Jackb

just like the SGU issues are not a problem for you as you are not in Grenada.... :rolleyes:

kananaskis_girl

11-02-2009, 09:55 PM

I was part of the first class where it was not mandatory to go to the SVG campus for 5/6th term and I felt SGU handled the student concerns very professionally, along with the class ahead of us where SGU relocated everyone who asked to be from SVG back to GND for their comfort and peace of mind. Yes, incidents happen, but I think this can be said for every school (as multiple posters on this thread have already pointed out). However, the onus still needs to be on the individual. Having lived both on campus and off campus in GND, I can say that if you act smart and inform yourself as to the resources available to you, there will be very little problems (and yes, I understand that things can still occur, and that just is bad luck). When I lived off campus, I was by myself and did not have a vehicle....never had any issues late at night coming back from the campus, they have an off-route bus that will take you pretty much right to your doorstep and the guard riding shotgun usually walked me up to my door.

Back to the original topic at hand, I believe that things could have been handled in a better way, but some of this needs to be in the hands of the victims as well. Who did they talk to about this? If it was some low-level secretary at the housing office they probably wouldn't have gotten anywhere. However, going to talk to one of the Deans would have most likely resolved this situation very quickly, all of them are approachable and care about the students. How about talking to one of the counselors at SGU as well?? There are so many SGU resources and they are announced to the student body, it's just that many students are more interested in getting drunk at Banana's every night rather than taking care of themselves in a foreign country, it's time to cut the umbilical cords when you go away to medical school.

And, for the record, I am one of the harshest critics of SGU if you take a look at my posting history. Yes, lots of things can be improved at the school but never did I feel the school was "hiding" crimes or covering them up or unwilling to help students who asked for it.

jackbnimble

11-02-2009, 10:57 PM

just like the SGU issues are not a problem for you as you are not in Grenada.... :rolleyes:

Touche', but that is really not the point.

I simply find the response to safety issues to be counterproductive and less than optimal. The defensive posture many take belies the information some current and past students have relayed. I seldom find blaming the victim to be constructive.

That said, the campus awareness blotter is more than we saw a couple of years ago. However, some of your colleagues point to other issues that did not make it to the report...but then, hey, as you roll your eyes at me, what do they or certainly I know..I'm not there.

Anyway, thanks for responding. I would not have re-entered this discussion had a recent SGU grad not forwarded me the link to this ..Sgu does not care about you or your safety..thread. Two days later while some are rushing to make a point, someone is held up at gunpoint? Yes, I received the information before it was posted here. Ironic, no?

You seem to echo my desires of safety and although I disagree with your placing so much of the onus on the victim, I appreciate that your experience is better than that of others.

Jackb

digitalising

11-02-2009, 11:07 PM

TheFooBar

11-02-2009, 11:50 PM

I simply find the response to safety issues to be counterproductive and less than optimal.

I know I sound like a broken record, but do you happen to have suggestions for specific improvements (or even specific criticisms) to the less than optimal response to safety issues? Because can't your statement be said about every single place in the history of mankind because nobody has ever achieved *the* optimal response to any issue?

I'd even settle for you defining "the response to safety issues" but I fear that's not going to happen either.

I'm not saying there are not improvements to be made. However for someone who is so sure the system is woefully broken you can't seem to describe a specific problem or specific improvement. Yet being unable to actually identify and quantify any problem doesn't seem to slow down your insistence that there are huge massive problems and that we will soon be under a crime wave of Georgetownian proportions.

However, some of your colleagues point to other issues that did not make it to the report...but then, hey, as you roll your eyes at me, what do they or certainly I know..I'm not there.The issues that are listed in the blotter are those that are reported to the University Security Department. I have yet to hear someone claiming they reported a crime to said authorities but didn't see it posted.

While you take others to task for any minor assumptions like the one you just made I see you don't feel burdened by the same restrictions. Sigh.

Two days later while some are rushing to make a point, someone is held up at gunpoint? Yes, I received the information before it was posted here. Ironic, no?No. When SGU students want to find out the crimes they probably go to the large CRIME REPORTS button on MySGU rather than look on VMD.

TheFooBar

11-03-2009, 12:06 AM

I like how encouraging people to be responsible for their own safety and giving advice on how to get help is considered to be "blaming the victim." If I encourage a patient to improve their health and give them strategies for doing so, is that considered "blaming the patient?" I think Bioethics would frown on that.

In Jack's world, yes, you're blaming the patient. Because when someone engages in dangerous activities, be it walking back to campus soaking drunk or eating too much pizza with too little exercise, it is clearly not their fault; that fault belongs to SGU.

TheFooBar

11-03-2009, 12:10 AM

It might be the late hour, but the tag on this thread of "nuclear trainwreck" cracks me up.

Phrenetic

11-03-2009, 08:32 AM

Touche', but that is really not the point.

I would not have re-entered this discussion had a recent SGU grad not forwarded me the link to this ..Sgu does not care about you or your safety..thread. Two days later while some are rushing to make a point, someone is held up at gunpoint? Yes, I received the information before it was posted here. Ironic, no?

Jackb

You have repeatedly asserted, in almost every post, that some unnamed parties keep forwarding you information regarding safety at SGU.

I can't help but wonder - who are you? A Georgetown educated family doc (that's the only conference I could find in Denver right now, but I only spent 48 seconds searching, so I may be way off) by day and which superhero by night? Batman? Superman? Spiderman?

Why and who would send their "concerns" about safety at SGU to some random person who has no authority, no affiliation, no involvement at/with SGU? This makes as much sense as someone from Georgetown emailing and PMing me their concerns and then me going on a Georgetown message board and berating the school. Let's look at this logically. What purpose would this sort of behavior serve? None other than trying to sling internet mud on the school either because someone has a personal vendetta and/or simply too much idle time on their hands.

Your "concern" for our safety has been duly noted by a random bunch of people posting/reading this. Thank you. Please feel free to pick up another hobby.

As far as the original problem, although I am only a first termer, I see many resources in place to help students. Most faculty advisors seem to be very helpful. Did the victims in this situation contact their faculty advisors to get their help? Did they contact the Dean of Students? Did they post their concerns on Talk to the attention of the Chancellor?

I really sympathize with them and feel terrible that they had to go through such an ordeal. However, based on the information provided here, it doesn't appear that they acted wisely in the aftermath. They went to the housing office and were met with resistance. Who knows, the secretary may have had a fight with her husband that morning, so you can't just give up after speaking with 1 person. Instead of following up and using the multiple resources others and I have pointed out, these students chose to violate the student housing contract and move into a dorm room to which they have no legitimate claim. How is this the school's fault?

(And for all the griping about maids, I don't know of any med schools in the states that provide maid service in their dorm rooms.)

Phrenetic

11-03-2009, 08:39 AM

But then that is not a problem for you as you are at SGU.

Jackb

Yes and I am feeling quite safe here at SGU with our 11 crimes in 2 months, compared to your 52 crimes in 1 month at Georgetown.

I just can't resist asking again, and how are safety issues at SGU a problem for you? Seriously, are you Batman?

MaxPower311

11-03-2009, 08:02 PM

Phrenetic

11-03-2009, 08:36 PM

double post

digitalising

11-03-2009, 08:41 PM

No, you may not just say!

/kidding (I hate tagging posts with instruction for interpretation, but that's the safest bet unfortunately)

Phrenetic

11-03-2009, 08:42 PM

Maybe someone mentioned this but how can you compare SGU vs Georgetown without taking into account the number of students and number of students+townspeople in both? I think you should look at it on a percentage or ratio. Not saying how it'll work out when you crunch the numbers but it should be taken into account

Now that's assuming that this thread is relevant anymore...and i think we know the answer to that

/just saying

SGU student population 8,000 .......... 6 crimes/month average
Georgetown student population 15,000 .......... 52 crimes/month

The township size is not something for which we need to adjust because it is part of the variable of interest. The safety of students in Grenada is what's being called into question. There are 0.75 crimes per 1,000 students per month at SGU and 3.47 crimes per 1,000 students per month at Georgetown. That's the bottom line.

routedoctor

11-03-2009, 09:14 PM

I am very sympathetic to anyone that is a victim of crime. I'm not a lawyer (or a doctor....yet) but I can give you a little advice. These ideas are worth what you paid for them.

1. File a Small Claims Suit against University Support Services, LLC. Your allegations can be numerous (as long as they are above board) but for starters, you can claim they failed to warn you about the level of crime on the island. This is (unfortunately) a well-known trick in our legal system now. Their cost of defending even a Small Claims suit (they will need a lawyer in NY if I am not mistaken) may be higher than just buying you a new laptop.

2. Don't friggin' go to Grenada if you aren't insured for everything. Taking a dog? Insure them. Taking any prized possessions? Insure them. Keep all the police report incident numbers and get copies of the reports. Your insurance company won't risk the penalties of defaulting on a first-party claim.

3. Take a self-defense class. Sure, if you are 5'2" and 100 lbs you aren't going to fight, but if you are 6'0" 200 lbs, a black belt, have some law enforcement training, and a bit of a "hair trigger" your options broaden a bit :)

4. Consider rooming with someone larger.

5. You did bring a baseball bat to Grenada right, for "recreational purposes"?

I've got more ideas but you get the jist.

RouteDoctor

MaxPower311

11-03-2009, 09:47 PM

SGU student population 8,000 .......... 6 crimes/month average
Georgetown student population 15,000 .......... 52 crimes/month

The township size is not something for which we need to adjust because it is part of the variable of interest. The safety of students in Grenada is what's being called into question. There are 0.75 crimes per 1,000 students per month at SGU and 3.47 crimes per 1,000 students per month at Georgetown. That's the bottom line.

Like I said, not sure how it would work out when you crunch the numbers..try not to be too defensive without reading past the first sentence

guess that's the bottom line:crazy:

jackbnimble

11-03-2009, 09:47 PM

I know I sound like a broken record, but do you happen to have suggestions for specific improvements (or even specific criticisms) to the less than optimal response to safety issues? Because can't your statement be said about every single place in the history of mankind because nobody has ever achieved *the* optimal response to any issue?.

As I stated previously, about two years ago:

The Jeanne Clery Disclosure of Campus Security Policy and Campus Crime Statistics Act, codified at 20 USC 1092 (f) as a part of the Higher Education Act of 1965, is a federal law that requires colleges and universities to disclose certain timely and annual information about campus crime and security policies. All public and private institutions of postsecondary education participating in federal student aid programs are subject to it. Violators can be "fined" up to $25,000 by the U.S. Department of Education, the agency charged with enforcement of the Act and where complaints of alleged violations should be made, or face other enforcement action.

The Clery Act, originally enacted by the Congress and signed into law by President George Bush in 1990 as the Crime Awareness and Campus Security Act of 1990, was championed by Howard & Connie Clery after their daughter Jeanne was murdered at Lehigh University in 1986. They also founded the non-profit Security On Campus, Inc. in 1987. Amendments to the Act in 1998 renamed it in memory of Jeanne Clery.

Access To Timely Information

Schools are also required to provide "timely warnings" and a separate more extensive public crime log. It is these requirements which are most likely to affect the day to day lives of students. The timely warning requirement is somewhat subjective and is only triggered when the school considers a crime to pose an ongoing "threat to students and employees" while the log records all incidents reported to the campus police or security department.

Timely warnings cover a broader source of reports (campus police or security, other campus officials, and off-campus law enforcement) than the crime log but are limited to those crime categories required in the annual report. The crime log includes only incidents reported to the campus police or security department, but covers all crimes not just those required in the annual report, meaning crimes like theft are included in the log. State crime definitions may be used.

Schools that maintain a police or security department are required to disclose in the public crime log "any crime that occurred on campus…or within the patrol jurisdiction of the campus police or the campus security department and is reported to the campus police or security department." The log is required to include the "nature, date, time, and general location of each crime" as well as its disposition if known. Incidents are to be included within two business days but certain limited information may be withheld to protect victim confidentiality, ensure the integrity of ongoing investigations, or to keep a suspect from fleeing. Only the most limited information necessary may be withheld and even then it must be released "once the adverse effect…is no longer likely to occur."

The log must be publicly available during normal business hours. This means that in addition to students and employees the general public such as parents or members of the local press may access it. Logs remain open for 60 days and subsequently must be available within 2 business days of a request.---

I will probably get banned for this post. But, hey, as Winston Churchill said,..."..The truth is incontrobertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but there it is."

Likely, we will be colleagues one day and I hope we have all learned from this.
..
I was never really interested in the strong presentation by many of M&M tables with relative statistics about the likelihood of similar acts elsewhere. I never found those arguments compelling. This is not an actuarial exercise, but is an awful example of a school being derilect in their responsibility. That was the full thrust of my position. I am sorry if I did not make that point well. Belief and sincerity do not define truth; it exists despite belief and sincerity.

Good luck,

Jack

digitalising

11-03-2009, 09:54 PM

Two years ago...

OK, ALL of that information is included on the crime reports which are freely accessible, 24/7, to all students and SGU members (not to parents, but most people here are not minors). Unfortunately, most perpetrator descriptions tend to run into the "black male, with dreadlocks" vein which doesn't really give the police much to go on. Our logs go back years. If you have any other suggestions, please make them. You may want to run them by your e-mail contacts to make sure that they're not already in place.

Also, I don't know if it's a typo - "incontrovertible." Unless Churchill was drunk when he said it, which is a very real possibility.

digitalising

11-03-2009, 10:00 PM

Wh0Kares

11-03-2009, 10:05 PM

As I stated previously, about two years ago:

when are you ever going to comprehend that two years ago is TWO YEARS AGO..not today..lets say it together ..yes you got it ....t-w-o y-e-a-r-s a-g-o.... i can translate in different languages too...your knowledge about grenada has expired..yes lets do this one together too...uh huh there we go...E-X-P-I-R-E-D.

rokshana

11-03-2009, 10:17 PM

my question is why jackb has a chip against sgu? i don't see him going to the ross forum or the auc forum and taunting them about the lack of their respective schools on safety....there certainly have been numerous threads on other school fora about safety crime rates, etc, yet it is sgu's forum that he fixates on...of course the "my friend...ex-wife actually" may have something to do with that...

Wh0Kares

11-03-2009, 10:21 PM

I am very sympathetic to anyone that is a victim of crime. I'm not a lawyer (or a doctor....yet) but I can give you a little advice. These ideas are worth what you paid for them.
RouteDoctor
not sure if these ideas were for humor or not but im pretty glad im not paying a cent for them

3. Take a self-defense class. Sure, if you are 5'2" and 100 lbs you aren't going to fight, but if you are 6'0" 200 lbs, a black belt, have some law enforcement training, and a bit of a "hair trigger" your options broaden a bit :)
and i bet if she was Quinton Rampage Jackson from the UFC holding a rocket launcher that would broaden the options even more..but shes not...

4. Consider rooming with someone larger.

yes as if rooming with a girl who is 5'8 instead of 5'2 or even a 6'0 tall dude is going to scare a big guy slashing his machete in the air...who is stupid enough to try to fight a bum who has nothing to lose swinging a machete? whether 5'2 or 7'8

5. You did bring a baseball bat to Grenada right, for "recreational purposes"?

oh yes a small girl swinging a baseball bat is definately going to win over a 6'0 tall dude swinging a sword

I've got more ideas but you get the jist.oh dear...

jackbnimble

11-03-2009, 10:32 PM

You have repeatedly asserted, in almost every post, that some unnamed parties keep forwarding you information regarding safety at SGU.

Yes, friends I made on this board before and some I have recently made. One wrote to the list,

"...I for one appreciate Jackbnimbles input and concern for safety of the students in St. Vincent and Grenada. I think some of the people involved with this university would do well to show as much concern as someone like Jackbnimble who doesn't even have a personal stake in this ongoing situation..."

I can't help but wonder - who are you? A Georgetown educated family doc (that's the only conference I could find in Denver right now, but I only spent 48 seconds searching, so I may be way off)

Just an Epidemiologist (MPH) guy that went to Georgetown Med then did a pediatrics residency. Now an academician. We are collaborating with a group at the University of Colorado School of Medicine--one of the centers in an ongoing meta study on Maternal and Child Epidemiology. I teach, both in the classroom and in the hospital with joint appointments in the School of Public Health and the Medical School.

Why and who would send their "concerns" about safety at SGU to some random person who has no authority, no affiliation, no involvement at/with SGU?

Some haven't felt a lot of support in GND. Some are just curious about my thoughts and ideas. Some have requested advice while others have offered it. One asked for a referral to a lab at NIH thinking it would help in applying for a more competitive residency. Yet another provided information about his issues with the Registrar's office at Georgetown (getting transcripts, iirc) as if that would minimize the OP.

Again I will bring your attention to medstudent84's original post:

"..SGU is not claiming any responsibility, will not put up cameras (even though this is cheap and a major deterant), and instead wants to kick us off campus!!!! and they harass us in the middle of exam week. It's not safe and they just don't care about you..."

This was forwarded to me, and as they say...the rest is history.

(And for all the griping about maids, I don't know of any med schools in the states that provide maid service in their dorm rooms.)

You got me there;)

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and wrong....HL Mencken

Good luck,
JackB

jackbnimble

11-03-2009, 10:38 PM

The township size is not something for which we need to adjust because it is part of the variable of interest. The safety of students in Grenada is what's being called into question. There are 0.75 crimes per 1,000 students per month at SGU and 3.47 crimes per 1,000 students per month at Georgetown. That's the bottom line.

Belief substitutes experimentation with rationalization, circular reasoning, and speculation.

I am told, my opinion on safety is worthless because I never attended SGU. Double standards aren't really becoming---did you attend Georgetown Med?

I recall a quote in Pedriatrics that anecdotes are useless because they may point to idiosyncratic response. Fitting, no?

Jack

digitalising

11-03-2009, 10:40 PM

Jackie B, please post your own ideas instead of quotations from historical figures. The Clery Act was a start, albeit extremely dated.

digitalising

11-03-2009, 10:42 PM

And no one said that your opinion was worthless, just dated. If you have new ideas for us then that's wonderful. If not, then please stop obfuscating.

jackbnimble

11-03-2009, 10:45 PM

.of course the "my friend...ex-wife actually" may have something to do with that...

..................?

Wh0Kares

11-03-2009, 10:48 PM

i don't even know why anyone forwards anything to this guy..he has as much power to change things as the next guy on the street...i don't go forward my concerns about my school to some guy in Zimbabwe...i direct them towards the chancellor...common sense...

rokshana

11-03-2009, 10:50 PM

Endocrinology or endocrinological psychiatry via the internet, Rok?

so why don't you answer the question that has been posed to you many many many times here...you think sgu is doing it wrong...you have made your criticism...now make it constructive...

explicitly, what would you suggest sgu do?

routedoctor

11-03-2009, 10:55 PM

Stop blaming the victim by offering advice, RouteDoctor!

I think you missed the point, as no one is blaming anybody. I can't tell if your sarcasm was on par with mine or not.

But if you are a twenty-something it's possible that you haven't yet figured out that 911 isn't a contract, it's a suggestion. Being victimized sucks, but luck favors the prepared.

If you haven't figured out that the cops and the university aren't there to prevent crime or help you when one has been committed then that's tragic. The University is there to do damage control, and the cops are there to solve crimes after they happen, not to "protect" you or prevent them from happening in the first place.

The landlord has no responsibility (zero) for anything in this scenario.

Just my 2 cents. Buy insurance and be prepared for the STHTF.

Personally I'd file small claims and haul them in to talk about this.

RouteDoctor

jackbnimble

11-03-2009, 10:55 PM

And no one said that your opinion was worthless, just dated. If you have new ideas for us then that's wonderful. If not, then please stop obfuscating.

Oh, please ... medstudent84's post was originally scribed at 1229AM, 10/30/09. It was edited 17 hours and 57 minutes minutes later. You seem neither compelled by earlier issues nor those more recent. The subject title speaks to the timeliness of my posts.

By the way, the problem with Clery is enforcement outside the continental US and it's territories.

As penance you might try saying, "go, Hoyas" four times in rapid succession or at the very least, "go Phillies."

Jackb

routedoctor

11-03-2009, 10:57 PM

Wh0Kares

11-03-2009, 11:03 PM

Quoting >> not sure if these ideas were for humor or not but im pretty glad im not paying a cent for them <<

It's clear that you completely missed the point.

And oh yeah, "oh dear?" That's just plain flaming dude.

RouteDoctor

if all of us are missing your 'point' then obviously you couldn't manage to get your point across ...now...lets try again..what was your point?

digitalising

11-03-2009, 11:07 PM

I think you missed the point, as no one is blaming anybody. I can't tell if your sarcasm was on par with mine or not.

But if you are a twenty-something it's possible that you haven't yet figured out that 911 isn't a contract, it's a suggestion. Being victimized sucks, but luck favors the prepared.

If you haven't figured out that the cops and the university aren't there to prevent crime or help you when one has been committed then that's tragic. The University is there to do damage control, and the cops are there to solve crimes after they happen, not to "protect" you or prevent them from happening in the first place.

The landlord has no responsibility (zero) for anything in this scenario.

Just my 2 cents. Buy insurance and be prepared for the STHTF.

Personally I'd file small claims and haul them in to talk about this.

RouteDoctor

It was sarcasm.

digitalising

11-03-2009, 11:10 PM

Oh, please ... medstudent84's post was originally scribed at 1229AM, 10/30/09. It was edited 17 hours and 57 minutes minutes later. You seem neither compelled by earlier issues nor those more recent. The subject title speaks to the timeliness of my posts.

By the way, the problem with Clery is enforcement outside the continental US and it's territories.

As penance you might try saying, "go, Hoyas" four times in rapid succession or at the very least, "go Phillies."

Jackb

Except that I posted suggestions within minutes for how the OP could get results, whereas you swept in and started flinging accusations and insults.

I'm well aware that laws in the United States don't apply to foreign countries. I knew that when I was 5. I referenced it because it was an actual suggestion that you put into this thread (so far you're at 1) and the vast majority of the points raised by the law have already been in place for a while.

I need to work on my Internet sarcasm. I suppose that I should add in the tags, even though they're the equivalent of laugh tracks.

And please stop trying to force your religious views on me. I didn't like it at Georgetown and I don't like it now.

Do you have any suggestions for how to improve security?

jackbnimble

11-03-2009, 11:25 PM

And please stop trying to force your religious views on me.

I am sorry you thought I was trying to do that. My religious views are Modern Orthodox Judaism and don't know how you really believed I was forcing my religious beliefs on you. My joke about penance was meant as such.

Sorry,
Jack

jackbnimble

11-03-2009, 11:26 PM

[.........

digitalising

11-03-2009, 11:32 PM

Phrenetic

11-03-2009, 11:51 PM

Yes, friends I made on this board before and some I have recently made. One wrote to the list,

"...I for one appreciate Jackbnimbles input and concern for safety of the students in St. Vincent and Grenada. I think some of the people involved with this university would do well to show as much concern as someone like Jackbnimble who doesn't even have a personal stake in this ongoing situation..."

Just an Epidemiologist (MPH) guy that went to Georgetown Med then did a pediatrics residency. Now an academician. We are collaborating with a group at the University of Colorado School of Medicine--one of the centers in an ongoing meta study on Maternal and Child Epidemiology. I teach, both in the classroom and in the hospital with joint appointments in the School of Public Health and the Medical School.

Some haven't felt a lot of support in GND. Some are just curious about my thoughts and ideas. Some have requested advice while others have offered it. One asked for a referral to a lab at NIH thinking it would help in applying for a more competitive residency. Yet another provided information about his issues with the Registrar's office at Georgetown (getting transcripts, iirc) as if that would minimize the OP.

Again I will bring your attention to medstudent84's original post:

"..SGU is not claiming any responsibility, will not put up cameras (even though this is cheap and a major deterant), and instead wants to kick us off campus!!!! and they harass us in the middle of exam week. It's not safe and they just don't care about you..."

This was forwarded to me, and as they say...the rest is history.

You got me there;)

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and wrong....HL Mencken

Good luck,
JackB

Belief substitutes experimentation with rationalization, circular reasoning, and speculation.

I am told, my opinion on safety is worthless because I never attended SGU. Double standards aren't really becoming---did you attend Georgetown Med?

I recall a quote in Pedriatrics that anecdotes are useless because they may point to idiosyncratic response. Fitting, no?

Jack

I have great respect for your academic and professional achievements. I also have a lot of respect for Cicero, who wrote: "...rational ability without education has oftener raised man to glory and virtue, than education without natural ability." Picking mostly inconsequential elements out of my and others' comments and debating those inconsequential points in an attempt to obfuscate the lack of logic in one's own reasoning is not a sign of anything desirable.

So, I will detail my points in bullet form, in hopes of receiving logical responses:

1. Why are you concerned with safety at SGU? Please refrain from repeating "I referred an SGU student to the NIH" or any other similar lines, which in no way explain your particular deep interest.

2. I did not bring Georgetown into the discussion, you did. You felt the need to point out the superiority of your school/education with your "off-shore" remark and your mention of Georgetown. I simply followed up on the data you provided and put it in context. Furthermore, I posted the information, otherwise known as data in context, on this board, and not in any Georgetown fora. So please point out where I have employed a double standard?

3. Thus far I have provided data, information and personal opinion only. There are no anecdotes in any of my posts on this thread. You are the one who has used anecdotes to construct arguments. Please explain the intent of your comment regarding "anecdotes".

4. You were not told that your "opinion on safety is worthless". Please point out where you were told this.

5. You were told, repeatedly, that the motivation for your concern about safety at SGU is unclear and were asked to clarify it repeatedly. Please see point #1.

6. You were told, repeatedly, that the information and anecdotes you have posted are dated at best, or misguidedly erroneous.

7. You were asked, repeatedly, to provide concrete evidence of particular shortcomings in SGU's security system. Please feel free to provide them now.

8. You were asked, repeatedly, to provide concrete suggestion for improving the specific security shortcomings you appear to be perceiving. Please feel free to provide them now.

jackbnimble

11-03-2009, 11:57 PM

digitalising

11-04-2009, 12:01 AM

Only know a few of those areas, but sounds right, doable, and financially viable. Are there many/any security cameras? Also, if ten is the number, you have one more because you said One in front of Bell, then moved it out in the succeeding para.

Jack

That's because I meant to type Bourne there instead of Bell. I think it's a waste of resources to put a phone hardlined to security when the head office is ten meters away. They're not cheap though, but I think it's better than cameras in all of the dorms as that would be ridiculously expensive - you'd need at least 24-36 for SD6 alone if you put one at each end of the hallways.

Furthermore, with cameras you require a dedicated operations center with monitors. If you put several dozen cameras around campus, you need a space to monitor them from as well as monitors and associated equipment. Not only do you factor in the cost of all of this equipment, but also the associated shipping, duties, installation, and maintenance. I'll bet that the alert posts will be more durable and weather-resistant than cameras, especially in the tropical mess that we have down here.

Phrenetic

11-04-2009, 12:14 AM

OK, I'm going to try to turn this thread back.

On campus security - we don't have alert stations, where students can just run out to a phone and contact security directly. I think this would be a great thing to have.

Maybe a distribution could be:
- One outside of the library
- One in front of each pair of SDs (SD3 and SD5, SD6 and SD1, and one in between SD2 and SD4).
- One next to the Chancellery for the resident halls up there
- One next to the Upper student lot for those dorms.
- One near Black Sand beach.
- One next to the DES building (behind Bell).
- One in front of Bell
- One behind the vet anatomy building.
- One behind Caribbean house

That's ten in total. I haven't put one in front of Taylor because the security booth is right there, nor one in front of Bourne because DPSS is there. Another possibility is the steps leading down to Black Sand beach as they are pretty long. They wouldn't be actual phones - just a button with a speaker and a microphone, which would reduce the likelihood of theft or vandalism.

Great suggestion, Digitalising. This should be brought to the attention of the Chancellor (maybe posted on Talk?).

Several people are complaining that cars and buses are being checked for IDs while pedestrians aren't. The current configuration at the main gate simply doesn't permit control of pedestrian traffic. Cars and buses block the guards' view of the sidewalk and the open hills that lead down to Taylor and the Vet building. Extending the fences and having a pedestrian "gate" as well would certainly change this, but this might be going a little overboard, IMHO. The campus would start resembling a camp, and not the good kind.

On a more cynical note, if anyone knows of a place on the planet where more than 1000 humans live in a community and there is no crime, please let me know where it is so I can move there.

digitalising

11-04-2009, 12:24 AM

Several people are complaining that cars and buses are being checked for IDs while pedestrians aren't. The current configuration at the main gate simply doesn't permit control of pedestrian traffic. Cars and buses block the guards' view of the sidewalk and the open hills that lead down to Taylor and the Vet building. Extending the fences and having a pedestrian "gate" as well would certainly change this, but this might be going a little overboard, IMHO.

I think that's a good idea. You wouldn't need a gate, just a zealous guard or two who would chase after people who come in without showing ID. After a while the students would get used to it and the guards would just bother those who don't have their IDs or who are not students.

The campus would start resembling a camp, and not the good kind. I'll bring the graham crackers and marshmallows if you bring the chocolate.

On a more cynical note, if anyone knows of a place on the planet where more than 1000 humans live in a community and there is no crime, please let me know where it is so I can move there.

The closest I can think of is Koh Yah Noi island, Thailand. Spent a week there - left my keys in my scooter, my room unlocked, and fell asleep on the beach from 1-3 AM feeling perfectly safe. This is what the locals do as well (minus the sleeping on the beach part - I think they prefer their homes, but I hate mosquito netting and that's what I was sleeping under). There are about 3000 people on the island, and they have a 24/7 7-11 (7-11 in Thailand is awesome, by the way. If you're ever lost in Bangkok, buy a map at the 7-11 and use the 7-11's marked on the map to navigate your way to wherever you need to go. I realize I just used 7-11 too many times).

Of course, if something had happened it would have been my fault for letting my guard down. Nothing did though, which is why I think that's the closest you can get.

TheFooBar

11-04-2009, 07:08 AM

Access To Timely Information

Schools are also required to provide "timely warnings" and a separate more extensive public crime log. It is these requirements which are most likely to affect the day to day lives of students. The timely warning requirement is somewhat subjective and is only triggered when the school considers a crime to pose an ongoing "threat to students and employees" while the log records all incidents reported to the campus police or security department.

So there's something resembling a real live constructive idea. It's telling that your one idea is two years old and appears to be copy and pasted from somewhere else.

The only problem is we already have that. Easily accessible and frequently updated crime log of all crimes reported to campus security? Check. Weekly emails that update us on the state of Crime and Safety in Grenada? Check.

So I'll grant your idea was (presumably) appropriate two years ago, but the challenge isn't to provide old idea that have already been implemented. Things have changed, evolved, and are in fact different.

Maybe I can put it in terms you may better understand:

Pt comes to you. You evaluate them and say "you need to drop a few pounds." Two years come by and the pt comes back. Rather than reevaluate the patient, see where they are now, you just continually repeat to them "you need to improve your health." After repeating that for 20 posts, er, minutes, you finally offer up a suggestion, "drop a few pounds."

Problem is the pt has already done that, 15 (or more) months ago.

Now I know you're very fascinated with the *subject line* of the OP. But if you read the OP and the ones that follow you'd understand the event that started this all off had nothing to do with safety but them being evicted for squatting. It's not a subtle difference, no matter how much the OP portrays it as such.

I will probably get banned for this post. But, hey, as Winston Churchill said,..."..The truth is incontrobertible. Malice may attack it and ignorance may deride it, but there it is."

You seem to like to recycle quotes a lot, even two years ago. Consider finding your own voice. Or to put it in terms you might better understand:

"A witty saying proves nothing." --Voltaire

So we're right back to where we were - Do you have any specific suggestions on what SGU should do (or even specific things SGU is doing wrong) ... that haven't already been implemented for at least the last 15 months?

TheFooBar

11-04-2009, 07:24 AM

Oh, please ... medstudent84's post was originally scribed at 1229AM, 10/30/09. It was edited 17 hours and 57 minutes minutes later. You seem neither compelled by earlier issues nor those more recent. The subject title speaks to the timeliness of my posts.

You've stated over and over that the subject of the post somehow proves you're right.

However, the content contained under the subject title doesn't back up your assertions. Granted, you have to read the OP, realize that it lacks certain critical details, some of which still have not been provided. Reading the following posts (not just the subject lines) you'd understand the event that precipitated the OP has nothing to do with safety but that the university was evicting them for squatting.

So I'll ask a question again that has already been posed to you- With regards to safety, how did the university fail the OP? If you're not up to providing general constructive advice, maybe you can make do with the specific example that somehow proves your two year old ideas.

By the way, the problem with Clery is enforcement outside the continental US and it's territories.

Withholding the loan funds, or even the threat, seems like an excellent method of enforcement.

TheFooBar

11-04-2009, 07:42 AM

"...I for one appreciate Jackbnimbles input and concern for safety of the students in St. Vincent and Grenada. I think some of the people involved with this university would do well to show as much concern as someone like Jackbnimble who doesn't even have a personal stake in this ongoing situation..."

No one is saying that you don't have concern. We're just saying you don't actually understand the current situation and that your ideas, notions, and thoughts are all two years out of date.

Again I will bring your attention to medstudent84's original post:

"..SGU is not claiming any responsibility, will not put up cameras (even though this is cheap and a major deterant), and instead wants to kick us off campus!!!! and they harass us in the middle of exam week. It's not safe and they just don't care about you..."

As has already been pointed out, the OP unsurprisingly very wrong on the "cheap" cost of implementing cameras.

The reason SGU wanted to evict them was explained away in following posts. It has nothing to do with security, but to do with that they didn't have a lease for the room they were living in. This might fall under "blaming the squatters" though, but I'm willing to take the heat.

Maybe your thought is that SGU should be responsible for the stolen laptop of someone who was squatting in a dorm room? If so, just say that rather than saying a whole bunch of nothing.

For every complex problem, there is a solution that is simple, neat and wrong....HL Mencken

There's a difference between a philosophy and a bumper sticker -- Charles Schulz

TheFooBar

11-04-2009, 07:55 AM

On campus security - we don't have alert stations, where students can just run out to a phone and contact security directly. I think this would be a great thing to have.

You forgot one in the manager's office at Glovers.

For my money (and I'm all about simple solutions where appropriate), I'd try and find some way to redo the section of the wet lab where students place their belongings. I remember during our first term a student had a valuable phone stolen from her bag at this location. According to our handy-dandy crime report three students this term had items stolen from their bags, all in the same night.

I don't know if the space is large enough to put in lockers, similar to those in Charter so students would have the option of securing their belongings. Even simpler would be to allow students in the off-hours to place their belongings within the lab itself, but I don't know if that's a reasonable idea since the number of out of class hours I spent in the wet lab total exactly zero.

jackbnimble

11-04-2009, 09:12 PM

1. Why are you concerned with safety at SGU?

I am concerned with safety for many of the reasons we all are. I consciously chose to become an epidemiologist, a physician, a husband, a father, a friend etc. A few months ago, my teenage daughter was given GHB and raped while attending dance camp. That has served to heighten my awareness and sensitivity towards matters of safety and trauma specifically as they relate to children. Why do you seem to suggest nefarious motivations absent evidence of them?

2. I did not bring Georgetown into the discussion, you did.... So please point out where I have employed a double standard?

Sure you did, complete with campus police blotters in an attempt to keep score. You expressed eternal damnation towards my offering an opinion on SGU having never attended.

In post #75, ..jackbnimble cannot possibly know any of this (not that it's any of his businees,) or six posts earlier, ...it's difficult to have an informed opinion when you have not experienced it first hand..

The irony did not escape me when you point to my not having been a student at SGU as sufficient to disqualify me from rendering an opinion on the safety there. You did not observe the same standard (double standard, if you will) in defending SGU by pointing to Georgetown's crime absent the little fact that you never attended Georgetown Med. You did provide data and an in depth anova of per capita crime rates. How did you weigh three instances of clothes taken from laundry room at Gtwn?

4. You were not told that your "opinion on safety is worthless". Please point out where you were told this.

I trust you are not serious in your inquiry, but try posts 69 and 75 for starters.

5. You were told, repeatedly, that the motivation for your concern about safety at SGU is unclear and were asked to clarify it repeatedly.

I provided such. You simply did not like or respect the concern. That is your prerogative.

6. You were told, repeatedly, that the information and anecdotes you have posted are dated at best, or misguidedly erroneous.

You are correct, I provided the sexual assault reference from two years ago as the most egregious episode that I knew about. I did not claim it was the most recent. However, you are right, I did not provide information about clothes being taken from the laundry room or the hand dispenser being stolen. But we did not go without that information as you provided it from Georgetown. I think you label it the data you provided. Thanks.

7. You were asked, repeatedly, to provide concrete evidence of particular shortcomings in SGU's security system.

I believe you determined that SGU, with five times the number of incoming students each year as the largest US private school (and similar tuition) is unable to afford the installation or maintenance of video cameras.

The defensive posturing of many renders constructive and collegial discussion moot. In spite of that, specifics were provided.

Rokshana, that we roundly disagree on safety issues does not connote a "chip," instead simply a sincere disagreement.

--I am busy these days and will take a hiatus from this board, but will wish all the best.

JackB

digitalising

11-04-2009, 11:02 PM

Please read the edited OP.

Wh0Kares

11-04-2009, 11:58 PM

Please read the edited OP.

yup that should put an end to our colleague's consistently outdated an inaccurate comments...move along doc.

Phrenetic

11-05-2009, 04:52 PM

I am concerned with safety for many of the reasons we all are. I consciously chose to become an epidemiologist, a physician, a husband, a father, a friend etc. A few months ago, my teenage daughter was given GHB and raped while attending dance camp. That has served to heighten my awareness and sensitivity towards matters of safety and trauma specifically as they relate to children. Why do you seem to suggest nefarious motivations absent evidence of them?

First, and foremost, I am very sorry to hear of your daughter's ordeal. I hope there are not many people here who can empathize with that; unfortunately, I happen to be someone who can. I hope she will recover quickly and not suffer from any lasting consequences.

In light of your circumstances, I understand why you are especially motivated to advocate for improving safety in places where young people live and study. Nonetheless, my original pointed questions were focused on why you chose SGU specifically. There are many university campuses in the United States where far more egregious crimes against young people occur much more frequently than here at SGU. So, the defensive tone, which you correctly perceived, stemmed from the fact that your singular interest in SGU did not appear to have a rational basis.

Sure you did, complete with campus police blotters in an attempt to keep score. You expressed eternal damnation towards my offering an opinion on SGU having never attended.

In post #75, ..jackbnimble cannot possibly know any of this (not that it's any of his businees,) or six posts earlier, ...it's difficult to have an informed opinion when you have not experienced it first hand..

The irony did not escape me when you point to my not having been a student at SGU as sufficient to disqualify me from rendering an opinion on the safety there. You did not observe the same standard (double standard, if you will) in defending SGU by pointing to Georgetown's crime absent the little fact that you never attended Georgetown Med. You did provide data and an in depth anova of per capita crime rates. How did you weigh three instances of clothes taken from laundry room at Gtwn?Let's see if we can clear up this misunderstanding.

You pointed out that you went to Georgetown and seemed to imply that you found the SGU administration to be less concerned with safety compared to your own alma mater.

I provided crime data published by Georgetown, alongside the equivalent SGU data. However, please note that I never called the administration or safety measures at Georgetown into question, precisely because I have not attended. In fact, I specifically stated that I was not qualified to go on a Georgetown message board and criticize their campus safety. Your assertion that I have applied a double standard is baseless and iniquitous: 1) you criticized safety at a school you have never attended or worked in, 2) you implied that your school was superior, 3) I provided publicly available crime data for both schools, 4) I gave NO criticism of your school. Where is the double standard?

In the post where I stated that you "could not possibly know any of this", I listed specific examples of safety and support measures in place at SGU, and I correctly assessed that you would not know this by virtue of not being a member of our campus community.

I trust you are not serious in your inquiry, but try posts 69 and 75 for starters.I did not call your opinion "worthless" in any of my posts. I called your motivation into question, and I opined that based on the information you had provided thus far, the inner workings of SGU were not your legitimate "business". I also called the merit of your assessment of SGU safety into question because it appeared baseless, or rather based on old and anecdotal information.

I believe you determined that SGU, with five times the number of incoming students each year as the largest US private school (and similar tuition) is unable to afford the installation or maintenance of video cameras. I made no such determination as I am neither an accountant nor a school administrator. In fact, I did not discuss the issue of cameras at all. If you disagree, please point me to a post. The SGU campus and facilities within it, including dorms, are shared by medical students and undergraduate students. Could you please provide a reference for your claim that SGU has 5 times the number of incoming students?

The defensive posturing of many renders constructive and collegial discussion moot. In spite of that, specifics were provided. I believe and trust that you are not so naive as to be surprised by some defensive posturing on our part. You must know by now that SGU students, along with other Caribbean medical students, are generally considered second- or even third-class citizens in the world of American medical academia, and are routinely discriminated against, often quite openly. Many of us have traveled quite thorny paths to the sandy beaches of Grenada and we work very hard to be outstanding in every way possible in hopes of overcoming the stigma associated with our "Caribbean MD" degrees. The "off-shore" remark in one of your early posts was more than enough to put many of us on alert. I hope you understand why attempts at denigrating our school, particularly by anyone who has very limited or no knowledge and understanding of it by virtue of being entirely unaffiliated, and whose motives are not clear, will not be perceived positively.

I wish you strength in coping with your circumstances and hope that you will find peace.

TheFooBar

11-05-2009, 06:26 PM

Could you please provide a reference for your claim that SGU has 5 times the number of incoming students?

He can't because he's wrong. SGU claims 5,424 total enrollment. NYU, the largest private school in the US, has around 40,000 enrollment (plus or minus a few thousand depending on the year. Right now they are around 44,000). We are, at best, 14% the size of the largest private university in the US.

So he's off by almost a factor of eight.

(To be very generous, he might have meant private medical school, but since he's all about making gross assumptions when denying anybody making reasonable assumptions, I have to go with, and I quote, "largest US private school" not largest US private medical school.)

TheFooBar

11-05-2009, 06:28 PM

yup that should put an end to our colleague's consistently outdated an inaccurate comments...move along doc.

Hopefully for at least another two years.

jackbnimble

11-05-2009, 08:52 PM

He can't because he's wrong. So he's off by almost a factor of eight.

Phrenfootalising,

Surely you jest.

Largest US private medical school entering class ca. 250. SGU Med annual entering classes 1200. (1200/250) = 4.8 times as many students with each annual entering class. I am sorry--I said about 5 times as many, I should have more correctly said 4.8X as many. Fine, put in 480% as many cameras as the largest private US Medical School, Drexel. OP suggests one camera would be an improvement. If it is not within the capital plan, let me know and I will contribute.

I, as you say, chose SGU because I was invited to review the posts.

Moral relativism arguments never really compel attentive audiences. Replies addressing safety at Georgetown, DC, Detroit, South Central, Baltimore, or the Bronx are not particularly germane to the stated subject. Safety should really not be "graded on the curve."

For you to suggest I cannot comment on SGU because I never attended (although correct) while you feel free to profer same towards Gtwn is textbook double standard.

You will note, I edited off-shore from my earlier post. I did not realize the geographical reality was offensive.

You must know by now that SGU students, along with other Caribbean medical students, are generally considered second- or even third-class citizens in the world of American medical academia, and are routinely discriminated against, often quite openly.

I cannot help you there. If SGU students consider themselves the foremost Caribbean school then the zillion other schools in the Caribbean must be apoplectic.

I hope you understand why attempts at denigrating our school, particularly by anyone who has very limited or no knowledge and understanding of it by virtue of being entirely unaffiliated, and whose motives are not clear, will not be perceived positively.

I do find fault with transparent and defensive attempts to deflect concerns for safety. Addressing safety issues is not going to undermine your position in the match or subtract from your step score. Frankly with some of us, it would enhance both. Denigrating your school was not my goal, instead I was commenting on safety matters. That you considered it denigrating points to your sensitivity. I guess having an outsider point to problems at SGU is the problem you see. Lack of safety is the problem I see. For you to suggest my concerns start and stop with sexual assault two years ago is simply untrue, but you knew that.

JackB

digitalising

11-05-2009, 08:56 PM

You can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him drink if he thinks it'll cause autism.

That's going to be it for me on this thread unless people actually have ideas for addressing security issues. The OP's edit has rendered most of the "SGU doesn't care about students" arguments moot. Until then, have fun ladies and gentlemen.

Wh0Kares

11-05-2009, 08:58 PM

Phrenfootalising,

I, as you say, chose SGU because I was invited to review the posts.

JackB

what i'm confused about is why would anyone seek the opinion of and forward emails to such a random character such as yourself about the on- going situation at SGU when you have no say, no power, no influence, no correct information on anything

as i said in another post that is like me sending my SGU concerns to some random character in Zimbabwe ...its just pointless

TheFooBar

11-05-2009, 09:36 PM

Phrenfootalising,

Surely you jest.

Largest US private medical school entering class ...

Sorry, you originally said, and I quote, "largest US private school" NOT largest US private medical school. Playing the that may be what I said, but not what I meant game isn't going to fly.

I'm now convinced you don't even read what you write.

Also, I'd appreciate it if you'd edit your post to remove my name from the text that I DIDN'T WRITE. Sigh. :doh:

rokshana

11-05-2009, 10:16 PM

just shows your info is dated in other things....Univ of Ill @ chicago COM has a total enrollment of 1300...so about 325 per class...

and sgu's enrollment is not 1200 per yr...

jackbnimble

11-05-2009, 10:42 PM

just shows your info is dated in other things....Univ of Ill @ chicago COM has a total enrollment of 1300...so about 325 per class...

and sgu's enrollment is not 1200 per yr...

Wow, U of IL is private? Who woulda thunk? Drexel (actually private as per my claim) says they are the largest.

I thought you guys told me 400 X 3 annual start dates. Sorry iiri.

Obfuscation and semantics in lieu of safety? I even volunteered to financially to contribute for safety.

JackB

Wh0Kares

11-05-2009, 10:51 PM

Wow, U of IL is private? Who woulda thunk? Drexel (actually private as per my claim) says they are the largest.

I thought you guys told me 400 X 3 annual start dates. Sorry iiri.

Obfuscation and semantics in lieu of safety? I even volunteered to financially to contribute for safety.

JackB

no we don't have 3 starts dates..we have two..your lack of knowledge never cease to shine through in each and every post...a teacher...how ironic.

kananaskis_girl

11-05-2009, 10:54 PM

I thought you guys told me 400 X 3 annual start dates. Sorry iiri.

nope, incorrect again....are you even thinking about SGU or do you think we are ROSS?? SGU only has 2 incoming classes per year....

and I'm with dig on this one for the suggestion. If this thread continues to stray off topic with no constructive criticism on HOW to improve safety at SGU, it will be locked and you can all continue this debate on Talk with the Chancellor where things might actually get done. Final warning to stay on topic people.....

Wh0Kares

11-05-2009, 11:01 PM

nope, incorrect again....are you even thinking about SGU or do you think we are ROSS?? SGU only has 2 incoming classes per year....

and I'm with dig on this one for the suggestion. If this thread continues to stray off topic with no constructive criticism on HOW to improve safety at SGU, it will be locked and you can all continue this debate on Talk with the Chancellor where things might actually get done. Final warning to stay on topic people.....

i vote for a lock...we rather take this issue up with the chancellor than a random powerless character who thinks we have 3 terms ..plus the OP already admitted that the school did offer a double room right away so her whole "sgu doesn't care about us" argument went right out the window

jackbnimble

11-05-2009, 11:18 PM

just shows your info is dated in other things....Univ of Ill @ chicago COM has a total enrollment of 1300...so about 325 per class...

and sgu's enrollment is not 1200 per yr...

--As the largest public medical school in the country, the UI College of Medicine is also the most diverse. Our 1,300 students hail from a wide variety of cultural and economic backgrounds.-- public ain't private. from UI COM website

Ok pick a number, say (700 students at SGU/250 at Drexel) = 2.8. Install 2.8 times as many closed circuit cameras as Drexel has. Or just install ONE as the OP says NONE exist. Or argue it's less safe at place X; therefore, it's deemed safe at SGU. Or just declare it safe by executive fiat.

JackB

rokshana

11-05-2009, 11:22 PM

i say lock

digitalising

11-05-2009, 11:25 PM

Lock, if for no other reason but the egregious math sins being committed (700/250 * 100 = 280, not 2.8).

YouTube- Children

Wh0Kares

11-05-2009, 11:29 PM

Lock, if for no other reason but the egregious math sins being committed (700/250 * 100 = 280, not 2.8).

YouTube- Children (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qh2sWSVRrmo)

hahaha oh man.....

TheFooBar

11-05-2009, 11:30 PM

Agreed. Lock - YouTube- Tom Lehrer New Math

jackbnimble

11-05-2009, 11:35 PM

nope, incorrect again....are you even thinking about SGU or do you think we are ROSS?? SGU only has 2 incoming classes per year

Sorry, I thought there were two annual classes in GND and one in the UK. I don't spend a lot of time on the particulars of the schools. My interest has, for the most part, been limited to questions of safety, step pass rates, and working with RUSM/SGU/AUC students during their clerkships, electives, and residency. I don't spend a lot of time comparing the intricacies of RUSM vs. SGU vs. AUC vs. CMU or the litany of other schools.

However, it seems evident that I have struck a nerve and rather than a mature discussion concerning safety I am left with ad hominem attacks.

It does warrant mentioning that the OP was originally dated 10/30/09 at 0029

It was edited 17hrs 57 min later 10/30/09 1826 and typos were corrected absent any material changes. 18 hours later and no material changes?

Then six days later it was effectively retracted in toto resulting in the latest edit. Strange, huh?

How's it go...ban dissent and claim victory? Amusing.

Thanks, but no thanks,

JackB

Wh0Kares

11-05-2009, 11:38 PM

Thanks, but no thanks,

JackB

does that mean we won't have to deal with your outdated, inaccurate, uneducated remarks about our school again? can this be true? CAN IT?

Phrenetic

11-06-2009, 07:13 AM

Sorry, I thought there were two annual classes in GND and one in the UK. I don't spend a lot of time on the particulars of the schools. My interest has, for the most part, been limited to questions of safety, step pass rates, and working with RUSM/SGU/AUC students during their clerkships, electives, and residency. I don't spend a lot of time comparing the intricacies of RUSM vs. SGU vs. AUC vs. CMU or the litany of other schools.

However, it seems evident that I have struck a nerve and rather than a mature discussion concerning safety I am left with ad hominem attacks.

It does warrant mentioning that the OP was originally dated 10/30/09 at 0029

It was edited 17hrs 57 min later 10/30/09 1826 and typos were corrected absent any material changes. 18 hours later and no material changes?

Then six days later it was effectively retracted in toto resulting in the latest edit. Strange, huh?

How's it go...ban dissent and claim victory? Amusing.

Thanks, but no thanks,

JackB

I have tried to be very patient, especially after you revealed the personal tragedy you have (recently?) suffered, but this is bordering the inane. Here is a quick recap of what has transpired here so far:

1. Some SGU student is robbed and vents her frustration (aka hissy fit) on this internet forum.
2. You sweep in, cape and all, to tell all of us how SGU is woefully inadequate and inept at keeping its students safe.
3. In the course of your random attacks, yes attacks - because if you reread your original posts you will notice that there was nothing constructive in them whatsoever, you reveal your complete ignorance regarding SGU.
4. You have now admitted the following, directly and/or indirectly:
a. you have no clue about the current SGU campus
b. you have no clue about the safety measures in place on the SGU campus
c. you have no clue about the size of our school
d. you have no clue about how our school operates
e. you, I quote, "don't spend a lot of time on the particulars of the schools"
f. you completely disregard rational arguments and choose not to address them
g. when you have no intelligent basis for argument you resort to insults... yes, accusing innocent persons of "ad hominem" attacking you is an insult

So, let me get this straight:
1. You "don't spend a lot of time comparing the intricacies of RUSM vs. SGU vs. AUC vs. CMU or the litany of other schools", but you waste your time recording time stamps on internet forum post edits, AND you feel that you are qualified to give an opinion regarding safety at the aforementioned schools?

2. Your "interest has, for the most part, been limited to questions of safety", but you don't bother to update your knowledge of the campus OR its safety measures?

3. You think this is some sort of an epic internet war where someone needs to "claim victory"?

Yes, Jack, you win! I bow my head in submission. Here, take my sword... :rolleyes:

There is a name for persons who behave like you on the internet, it starts with a T....

Peace. Out.

Wh0Kares

11-06-2009, 07:23 AM

is the second letter W? lol

rokshana

11-06-2009, 10:25 AM

gimme a break jack!! you state RUSM, AUC, SGU and CMU in the same breath...and i'm pretty sure you know the story about CMU, so definitely a dig...and one that I find offensive (to the point that you should preceive an infraction for flamming) as do i'm sure do my fellow sgu students/grads

you obviously think that the simple fact that you went to georgetown make you a somehow a more worthy doctor...frankly it just makes you lucky...lucky that at the time you applied to medical school that there wasn't more competition...

it is ironic that when obviously false, outdated information is pointed out to you, you don't accept that and say sorry, then its what you want others to do so...

nor do you EVER answer questions posed to you that if you were TRULY interested in safety concerns then you would as least attempt to do so...

and per one of your other posts....i don't really recall anyone inviting you here to address our safety concerns...

i misread the private school part, but that doesn't take away from the fact that UIC has class sizes that approach our term sizes...yes the total class size is twice that, but something you don't know (since you have never attended sgu...visiting your ex wife doesn't really count) that you spend the time with your term and the 2 terms really don't come together...we even have separate graduation ceremony.

and of course you've made no mention of DO schools (guess they don't really come to your mind do they?) which have class sizes that again approach 300.

my sympathies to your daughter, i hope she is getting the counseling she needs and obviously has a father that feels deeply and is supportive of her, but really, if you are concerned about the safety where young people are, its seems your energies are best directed at the dance camp to beef up THEIR security...and while i understand the trigger that the sexual assault in SVG may heve been for you, it did not occur ON campus nor have their been any reported on the gnd campus for a long time (if ever)...

in fact the response that sgu gave in the incidence that you are so oft to point out, does indeed show that sgu IS responsive to the concerns of safety, even if its out of their jurisdiction to control....in that case (that you fail to mention) the resolution was...sgu pulled out of svg (oh! that's right, you didn't KNOW sgu had left SVG) lock, stock, and barrel...because of safety issues on the island od st vincent...a place they had been for 30 year...do you have ANY idea how much that had to cost the school?? The school will (and does...100 million...HHC contract) spend the money for the best interest of the school...keeping the students happy and feeling safe is in the best interested of the school...

after IVAN, did you know that the school spent the money for a perimeter fence? for the safety of the students (personally I thought it was a waste of money...the campus itself is safe enough from outside forces, thievery on campus frankly is a student on student crime) and for increased number of security guards and introduction of security dogs...if the school really thought the use of security cameras were necessary then they would do them (of course to the OP if you think that cameras really are needed, tell the chancellor on the talk to the chancellor forum...that has time and time again proven to be fruitful but i did not see any post about this issue there).