Kasturba Medical College, Manipal

[dopplerthesexybeast]

I'm totally new to this website, so I guess I should say hello to everyone out there. Hey guys!

So here's the topic... I've been looking at attending Kasturba Medical College, Manipal for some time now, knowing that it is consistently ranked among India's top medical schools. Coming from the US, and knowing that India has more medical schools than my country, I consider this to be a very good thing. It's also a lot cheaper than schools in my country (although this is just a bonus and not my motivation). I was getting consistently more and more excited, until someone told me that Kasturba Medical College had had its permission to grant the MBBS degree beyond 2009 revoked.

I've been doing some research on this. The website for the India Ministry of Health, as updated July 15, 2009, says that the Mangalore and Manipal campuses have had their permission revoked. WHY? If the Manipal campus is so highly recognized, why would their permissions be revoked?

I'm graduating with my bachelor's in 2011, so I will not fall before the provisional 2014 deadline in the granting of my MBBS if I go to KMC, and this is very distressing.

[coolest35]

I'm studying at another Med School in the same country, Medical Council of India (Governing body) revoked their license.. and as a result it wont qualify for IMED or WHO listing.. meaning you wont be eligible to write the USMLE. Plain and Simple. Also, I have some friends who are caught up in all this.. and as far as I could tell there's a reason why they've revoked the license. Its a sub par medical school according to Indian Standards (which are pretty freaking high).. PM if you wanna know more cause I'm pretty sure Ill start up a fire here lol..

[dopplerthesexybeast]

I find it interesting that it's sub-par when I've always heard it was one of the top schools. Do you have any recommendations for good medical schools then?

[coolest35]

Well I find it subpar because I had friends who were doing absolutely terrible in the Med School that i'm attending in right now.. and now they're at Manipal.. and are doing pretty well.. now i've seen these guys and i've lived with them aswell.. and I dont think a person can undergo such a huge transformation at all that they start passing all of their exams. Maybe this was the reason why MCI revoked their licence.. who knows? You may inquire about places around Puna if you are still interested. I'm currently attending in Gujarat..

Before even thinking about med school outside north america, have you tried applying over there? IMO my endaveour of coming to india is such a HUGE gamble... think about this.. we will eventually graduate from india.. but if you dont do well or even if you do well on the board exams (USMLE).. the chances of landing a residency in the US are very low.. infact this years match.. 47.2% of the IMG's (approx 13-15k applicants) matched.. so you have a 53.8% of "driving a taxi" lol.. I dont want to make it sound like its impossible.. or you cant do it.. but its near impossible and I just wanted to let you know how difficult it is before you make hasty decisions.

I took the ''shortcut'' and directly started med school here in india after Gr 12, which I think was a mistake I guess because I should have done bachelors there, applied to schools there.. if not there then I guess somewhere in Europe would have been the last option. Just my opinnion..

[dopplerthesexybeast]

I'm coming from a bachelor's degree in biology, so it's not like I'm starting fresh. I do know what I'm getting into, but what I will likely end up doing is acting as a military physician, which is totally different in terms of a residency from your standard US residency program. People keep telling me that I'd be shooting myself in the foot by going to an Indian medical school, but that degree with a US passport and military ID card is different than that degree without one, and in all likelihood I may not end up in the US anyway. The MBBS degree is recognized worldwide, though, so that's a non-issue.

[coolest35]

Well, even if you are acting as a military physician, you have to be certified by the same governing body that governs ALL of the other physicians so I don't think that'll let you off any easier. I'll get the degree and have a US Passport, I dont think this holds any advantage at all. There was a 5% difference between US IMG (47.2%) matches this year from ALL IMG (42% approx) matches.. so 5% difference wont matter.. especially by the time you apply for a residency.. As for the degree recognized everywhere, thats where there are shades of grey everywhere... depends on what you mean by "everywhere".

Lets say you want to go to Canada.. its next to impossible to get accredited
Europe.. some countries do offer accreditation depending on your exam scores (easier then USMLE)
Australia same thing as above....

now I dont know your history in the US (born/naturalized), but since your a citizen, you've stay for atleast 5 years.. packing up and moving else where is very difficult.. and belive me.. ive been living in India for 3 years now and its TOUGH and TERRIBLE. Again, I dont want to make it seem like the odds are against you, and I definatly dont want to keep you away from achieving your dreams.. im just telling you what I think would have been beneficial to me several years when I was initially prospecting about this whole going overseas and getting this degree faster..

[jenson300]

Its a sub par medical school according to Indian Standards (which are pretty freaking high)....

I thought they had revoked it because they did not have adequate facilities in proportion to the high number of students they were taking each year.

You might want to go to Search for Colleges (http://mciindia.org/apps/search/) and search

Course name : MBBS
Recognition status: All
Select a state: Karnataka
University: Manipal University

It said something different under "Status of MCI recognition" two weeks ago.

Anyway, they give a link to Contact Us (http://mciindia.org/common/contact_us.htm) saying to contact for up to date information.

I'd say it would be risky to enroll at this point of time because of the uncertainties..... I'm sure that they are reassuring prospective students. The truth is, this will all be over when the right amounts go to the right places.

[coolest35]

I thought they had revoked it because they did not have adequate facilities in proportion to the high number of students they were taking each year.

You might want to go to Search for Colleges (http://mciindia.org/apps/search/) and search

Course name : MBBS
Recognition status: All
Select a state: Karnataka
University: Manipal University

It said something different under "Status of MCI recognition" two weeks ago.

Anyway, they give a link to Contact Us (http://mciindia.org/common/contact_us.htm) saying to contact for up to date information.

I'd say it would be risky to enroll at this point of time because of the uncertainties..... I'm sure that they are reassuring prospective students. The truth is, this will all be over when the right amounts go to the right places.
Well I said I dont know the exact reasons why the MCI revoked their license, but I felt that the school was subpar in general. Whatever problems they have on top of that would just add to the reasons why I personally would not want to attend.

And I agree with you, its risky to enroll there.. and I don't think a license from the MCI can be ''bought'' -- 'all over when the right amounts go to the right places'. I dont think it's that easy to corrupt a medical governing body, but who knows.. it might be hehe ... if that's the case then that's creates an even worse image of the school!

[dopplerthesexybeast]

I wasn't saying that by acting as a military physician the testing standards would be any different, just that they have a different residency program. They have guaranteed residency programs for people who qualify; I made a 99 on my ASVAB, and I got offered a place in the Army's program with Johns Hopkins, so I know I qualify. If you go into residency with the military, provided that they have programs set up, they put you in the residency. It's not like applying to some teaching hospital's residency program in the dark, not at all. That's all I was saying. Besides, if I can't pass the testing required of graduates of foreign medical schools, I shouldn't be practicing medicine anywhere, period.

I've got a family in Kerala there I can stay with during vacations and whatnot, and I've lived in a so-called "third world" country before, albeit not India itself. Despite being a US-born, white, blonde, ethnically Irish woman, I enjoy living in these "third world" situations. I understand what I should and should not wear, where I should and should not go, what I should and should not say. I understand the cramped, dirty, smelly metropolitan areas. I've seen the child beggars, the heaping piles of trash, felt the sweltering heat. I assure you that there is nothing hotter than riding in the back of a taxi, packed third-world style, with no air conditioning and the windows rolled up through the Sahara desert in the middle of July. I understand what you're trying to say with warning me about how it is to live in India, but I obviously don't expect you to have known that I've lived in those same situations before.

As to KMC's accreditation, that too is what I thought. Everything I checked that had any statistics showed me that KMC does have an extremely large entrance class compared to other schools, 250 I believe, and I can see how their facilities would get out of hand. I'd seen something on another website (if I find it I will post it) about KMC being given provisional permissions up until 2014 for a class size of 250, which leads me to believe that it may very well be something to do with accommodating their (very large) class size. 250 students is more than most American schools have, at any rate. This in itself makes more sense as to how a college consistently ranked in India's top ten can lose its permissions, when India certainly does not have a small pool of medical schools.

[coolest35]

Well I dont know its your call now, I've told you what I know and I guess you can research more and make a decision, although if I was in your place.. I would certainly not come here!

As for your ''ASVAB'', its given in High School.. Im presuming you've taken SAT's, MCAT's etc (any other higher level standardized testing) and its very different. If you are offered a position at THE BEST MD program in North America, I dont see why you would even consider going out of the country to persue the same education. As for the residency program with the military, would you be able to provide more information on that? I'm kinda interested now lol... As for the USMLE, its not about the passing.. its about obtaining a competitive score. Passing rates have gone up over the years, and its not all about passing! If you end up JUST passing.. I gaurantee you wont land a residency.. that's why you have to go above and beyond. Anyways just saying.

As for your description you provided of yourself.. are you sure you want to come here? I mean there is definate sence of 'discrimination' here, I felt this towards me (even as an 'indian'), being a white blond, people treat you different, and its alot different attending an educational instutitute where people try and take advantage of you simply because you have the money. There are plenty of better alternatives in Europe like Austria for example! HECK I would go to Europe if I had a chance now lol..

[dopplerthesexybeast]

I was just saying that I was offered certain things then and still have recruiters after me, not that the ASVAB is the end-all to everything. Coming from a military family, I know better than that. I'm sure my SAT scores also had something to do with it, but your score on the ASVAB determines what you can and can't do in the military, and how much choice you have over your MOS. Make a 40 and you'll pass, but they're not going to let you go into, say, demolition. Make a 99 and you can do whatever you want; in other words, I'd be able to walk in, say what I wanted, and get it, period. It's the difference between being told that you're going be doing field medicine in Iraq and getting to choose whether or not to do it.

Truth be told, I've been called crazy for not going to places like Johns Hopkins, Cornell, etc., but it's just one of those things where you know what you want and you can't explain why.

And like I said, I have lived in those conditions before, I know what I'm getting into. When in Rome, you know? KMC has a reasonable amount of Australians who attend (considering the class size), and last time I looked at my uncle Australians do tend to be white, so I hardly feel like I'd be so completely foreign that it would be a case of "HOLY CRAP, A WHITE PERSON!" like in other places I have lived. Manipal is different from places like Mumbai, and I'd be uneasy about living in Mumbai, but when you've been the only white person living in a cramped, dirty, smelly city of millions in a "third-world" country between a mosque and a semi-collapsed building that's being used as a garbage dump, accosted every day by hawkers and child beggars, constantly eyeballed or blessed with many children, you experience and you learn from the people trying to take advantage of you.

If I am to study abroad for medical school, which is my ideal situation, there are three universities I have been looking at because they are considered some of the best in their countries according to all the research I have done, and that would be KMC, Manipal; AUC, Beirut; and Weill Cornell, Doha. I appreciate your concern and I understand you're only trying to prevent what you see could become a mistake in a field you happen to be knowledgeable about, but I'm not keen on a Western environment for my education because, well, it's not what I was raised with and isn't what I know. It's amusing to say this, but as much as I look like printer paper, I am like a half-Arab, half-Desi milkshake because of my upbringing, so these schools only feel natural to me. I would absolutely LOVE to attend KMC because I've heard nothing but good about it (except from you), but it's out of the question if permissions are not solid when it comes to be time for me to apply, and in that case my second choice would be Weill Cornell, Doha, which I am sure you will be happy to hear is a joint program with the US campus that uses several rotating professors between the two.

[dopplerthesexybeast]

And I'll be talking to a recruiter later on this week for the fine-tuned details of Army residency, so I'll keep you updated on that. I don't want to paint a picture here that's any less accurate than it could be.

[jenson300]

Truth be told, I've been called crazy for not going to places like Johns Hopkins, Cornell, etc., but it's just one of those things where you know what you want and you can't explain why.


Luckily you're in the less browsed parts of this forum, or everyone here would be calling you crazy also!!!!

Most people here would literally do anything to go to a US school. Just so many factors involved. There are just so many difficulties associated with being an International Medical Graduate, in terms of gaining a residency, general bias, etc.

But if you've got everything lined up for you as you say, then you pretty much can do anything you want to.

Weill Cornell is definitely a good option, maybe a better option than KMC, Manipal for the time being. Why don't you also consider European medical schools like Charles University?

[dopplerthesexybeast]

Again, I think it's an issue of the environment I grew up in. My current university often leaves me feeling left out because it's predominantly white/black in the demographic, and the only people I feel comfortable with are those who help me compete in Model Arab League every year and organize the annual South Asian dance competition... In other words, Arabs and Indians... So it's not so much the schools, it's the environments in which they are located. It's not necessarily KMC, it's India. It's a bonus that I've heard great things about KMC, but putting the two together is like a Godsend. What I've been told by some (but should apparently REALLY investigate) is a quality education, combined with a culture I love, it doesn't get better. It's the same thing with Weill Cornell, Doha.

So basically, there may be some excellent European schools, but I would have the same aversion to them as I would schools in my own country. That, and I can't tolerate a cold environment. It will be the middle of summer in Georgia and I will sleep with an electric blanket.

[dopplerthesexybeast]

Getting it in a little late on this, but for those who were interested...

The US Army's residency programs consist of several Army teaching hospitals and residency specialties. Completing a residency usually requires about a year or so more than standard residencies through civilian programs, but you do get all the pay and benefits of being in the Army (Tricare, etc.); the Army does not deploy its residents and deployment for active-duty doctors generally lasts no more than one year. For every year of residency paid for, one year of service is required, and you serve as a "weekend warrior" while you're a resident (you're a Reserve). As an Army doctor, you're automatically a captain (the third officer rank), and you've got a special pay grade as a health professional that is meant to close the gap between military and civilian healthcare salaries, to keep you there. You also get 30 days vacation a year. If you enter the Army as a medical school graduate, you do not do boot camp training; you instead go directly to your medical training, but you still have to meet physical fitness requirements.

Alas, it doesn't work for foreign medical schools.

[coolest35]

so pretty much only open to American Med. Grads eh?

Ah that sucks! I was actually interested in that too.. oh well.

So I guess you can't really consider that as an option either?

[dopplerthesexybeast]

Oh, you could probably do it as a foreign medical graduate, I was just referring to their program of paying for every dime of your medical education. THAT is only open to US schools, but a resident is a resident, I suppose.

[coolest35]

oh sweet, would you be able to acquire more information regarding the requirements for residency? I'm guess only difference is you wouldn't go through the NRMP?

[jenson300]

From what I have heard, only US students are allowed directly into army residencies. Foreign students should have unrestricted medical licenses. I suppose that this applies for everyone..... Everyone except the able and well connected.

[dopplerthesexybeast]

Really? I'd asked about that and they couldn't tell me, not the the recruiters I had talked to. From what I gathered, if you had graduated from an accredited institution recognized by the WHO and various other bodies of authority, and if you were eligible to serve in the US Army, then you were eligible for an Army residency. They couldn't clarify that for me 100%, though, so take that with a grain of salt.

[jenson300]

Really? I'd asked about that and they couldn't tell me, not the the recruiters I had talked to. From what I gathered, if you had graduated from an accredited institution recognized by the WHO and various other bodies of authority, and if you were eligible to serve in the US Army, then you were eligible for an Army residency. They couldn't clarify that for me 100%, though, so take that with a grain of salt.

http://www.goarmy.com/amedd/docs/gmep.pdf


"....If a graduate of a foreign medical school, the applicant must possess an Educational Commission for Foreign Medical Graduates Certificate, have unrestricted licensure to practice medicine in the United States or U.S. territory, and have successfully completed one year of GME in an accredited program....."

[jenson300]

.......I'm guess only difference is you wouldn't go through the NRMP?........

It seems they have a match very much similar to the NRMP.

[dopplerthesexybeast]

Hmmm, I guess I assumed that a recruiter would be able to tell me more than what was on the website, being a live person and all. Go figure. Then again, I do live in Bodunk-Redneckville, USA...

So, essentially, a graduate of a foreign medical school is still eligible, they just have to jump through a few more hoops.

[jenson300]

Hmmm, I guess I assumed that a recruiter would be able to tell me more than what was on the website, being a live person and all. Go figure. Then again, I do live in Bodunk-Redneckville, USA...

So, essentially, a graduate of a foreign medical school is still eligible, they just have to jump through a few more hoops.

Those hoops are pretty big ones. Very few on this forum have not complained how hard it is for an international medical graduate. But it is definitely not impossible. Still... US med school would make things much less complicated. You wouldn't need to go into a civilian residency first. The army would pay your way through also.

[dopplerthesexybeast]

I know, and it would certainly be the easiest thing for me to do, it's just that I find it culturally lacking. I never liked living in the US. Still, medical school is two years away so I do have some time to make up my mind...

[megha881]

Kasturba Medical College had had its permission to grant the MBBS degree beyond 2009 revoked.

I've been doing some research on this. The website for the India Ministry of Health, as updated July 15, 2009, says that the Mangalore and Manipal campuses have had their permission revoked. WHY? If the Manipal campus is so highly recognized, why would their permissions be revoked?

I'm graduating with my bachelor's in 2011, so I will not fall before the provisional 2014 deadline in the granting of my MBBS if I go to KMC, and this is very distressing.

unfortunately as of now....it is only upto 2014. even the australian medical council will only accept students who have fulfilled this.

i guess just hope and wait. when i was going to KMC manipal they revoked and reinstated a few times and it was all a lie. but went so far that ecfmg temporarily wouldnt let us register.