Questions about HMI and The Medical University of Lublin?

[skkalkat92]

Okay well I know many people disagree with the idea of going outside of the US to go to medical school, but I am still considering some schools for after high school [which would be next year]. Now I've also heard many things about this college, but I don't know how many of them are true, so please I wanted to ask the people who are attending, attended, or who have someone close attending/attended in particular. But if anyone else has an information about this school please feel free to leave a comment.

1. Well i was told that if you do the 6 year MD program right after high school that for the last two years you could come back to the US and finish up your rotations either in Chicago, Ohio, or New York. But recently after researching, some people are saying that you can no longer come back to the US to do rotations because all three of these hospitals no longer have affiliations with HMI. Is this true ?

2. Now I'm not sure if this is true either, but I heard that HMI s not a recognized school in the states of california or texas. Is this true ? and what exactly does it mean if a state does not recognize a particular school? [Does that mean you cannot complete residency in that state?]

3. I understand that Poland is a third world country, so the way of living will not be the same as it is in the US, but how are the living conditions?

4. I heard that the school is very unorganized and that the student himself has to learn everything on their own? Does this mean that the school itself is very hard? [And is it true that they let you retake some of the tests?]

That's all the questions that i had in mind at the moment. But if you have any other comments or particular experiences, please share !

Thanks and your help will be very much appreciated.

[Elssha]

I'm entering the 4-year program this fall, which is basically where 4-1 and 6-3 join up after the 6-year people finished their pre-med courses. I've gone to Poland, Lublin in particular, many times growing up.
One thing i'd like to open with, I don't think jumping on the 6-year bandwagon is the best idea if you have good college prospects in the states. I wouldn't trade my undergrad experiances for a few less years before graduating med school... even if they paid me.

1- the last two years can be done in the states, but only if you pass your USMLE step 1. I have not heard anything about the hospitals withdrawing.
2- HMI's Lublin and one other school (i'd have to check which) IS recognized in CA and other states that many foreign schools aren't. This basically means that the state recognizes the school as being on-par with US counterparts for that state (it has a list of requirements a school needs to fulfill) and thus requires no extra tests/ nostrifications to be completed before being allowed to practice med/ apply for residencies in that state. It's one of Lublin's selling points.
3- It isn't a third world country, it's part of the EU and has a healthy economy Economy of Poland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia . As for living conditions, of course they're gonna be different, even moving from one state to another can translate to different living conditions. The language barrier will be your biggest problem, as for the rest I'd suggest a search through this site vs asking such loaded questions and hoping someone will give paragraphs on the differences.
4- We're spoiled in the states. Half the time you can do well in a class from simply going to class, staying awake and learning what you're told by the instructor. In Poland (and as I understand it, most of the world) students are expected to study, come to class to clarify/better understand what they read, NOT to hear info for the first time. I don't think the school is very hard as med schools go, but seriously, med school isn't supposed to be easy by any stretch of imagination. We're going to be responsible for countless lives...

[sp1124]

1. the easiest way to guarantee yourself USA rotations through HMI is passing step 1, plain and simple. i don't know of anyone who has passed that hasn't been allowed into one of the american hospitals. regarding the cities, new york (as far as i know) perennially accepts students, whereas the other hospitals don't have as many spots so they tend to fill up.

2. not true. lublin just got CA approval a couple years ago so you're free to practice there and i havent heard anything about not being able to practice in texas.

3. poland isn't a 3rd world country (although i have heard it referred to as such by some of my more arrogant friends). the living conditions can be largely the same, with some exceptions:
- walking/public transport instead of cars since you're in the city
- not any racial diversity besides the other students in the program
- different currency, language, culture
- no taco bell :(

4. some departments in the school are unorganized but the self-study is prevalent anywhere you go. as far as passing and cheating and all of that goes, they are a little too lax on that and it can really foster bad habits and mindset if you don't have a fairly strong set of principles. all in all though, they give you what you need to pass the boards and be a doctor, as long as you are an honest student.

[Elssha]

LOL
no taco bell or other 'fast-ethnic' food we're used to here... the stuff they do have doesn't taste the same, even McDonalds. The Euro food there is very good though, and the meat products are far superior to anything i've been able to find stateside (if you don't shop at the big supermarkets... those are starting to have the stuff like we have here).

[Bubkas1]

What's the first time pass rate on USMLE Step One with these schools associated HMI? Why not ask HMI? Then ask me.

[sp1124]

yes, bubkas1, the rates aren't that great (somewhere in the 60's), but that is more due to the "admit everyone" mentality than it is the schooling.

here's a thought: if you don't go to med school of lublin, have never gone here, and never plan to go here, stay off the forum. that way, prospective and current students can get advice from ppl who actually go here or have gone here.

[yahooking]

Lublin has a great environment, its a great campus and great teachers. I have completed the course in lublin. HOWEVER all the greats go to the polish Students. American students are treated like shit at the university. We have no say in anything that goes on. Only DONATING students are told about research. Kids whose parents give money under the table get by easily then other students. I have seen this first hand... The university doesnt care for the american students as they will ALWAYS comeevery year with tons of money. They raise tuition like no other with jumps of upto 20%. HMI is no help after you are in poland its impossible to get ahold of anyone when you want to complain about something. BUT if you call saying i wanna go to poland someone will answer the phone in like 2 mins tops.. they are terrible at communication. Students are hardly ever told anything until they reach the class. The CEO of HMI claims they are still fixing up and they have less problems then the carrabian schools. Ok hes a DUMB CEO HMI has been around for more then 10 years now. I think thats enough time for any company to get their act together. When i question the CEO on this... he talks really fast to avoid other questions. (Typical Indian Business man) The school is like 99 % Indian people. and they get by much easuer then others. I say if your last name is PATEL and you want to get out of med school easily go to HMI, but dont count on passing the USMLE unless you know you can pass the usmle without being taught anything. Theres no challange anymore for students, its a shame a student can take upto 4 retakes and pass with the same credit as students who pass the first time. Its a Damn shame. When you call HMI ask about this and ask them to give you contact information of someone who doesnt indirectly work for HMI or someone who doesnt owe HMI for favors. Trust me i have seen idiots who dont know extravascular hemolysis pass. Its a damn shame i tell you. And by the way they will keep raising their fees... on average poland costs roughly 20 Grand a year for just uni and HMI fees. Lets not forget 10 grand to HMI just for sending you there. on average count on spending 30-40 Grand a year. Possibly more when poland converts to the euro.
I suggest you get your money back and apply to Antigua or Ross. And if your going from High School... You will regret it. Undergrad in America is an experiance not only to teach you books... but it will teach you howto study, have fun, and be a responsible person.

[sp1124]

yahooking,

i agree with most of what you said. this school goes way too easy on the students, which sucks out the motivation for the lazier students and provides a need for self-motivation if you are to succeed. also the communication with hmi is terrible while in poland, but i heard it gets better when going to rotations. they also did raise the tuition once for a terrible excuse (bad currency conversion rates even though they were at a 5-yr high). finally, i would not recommend the 6 year program to anyone as the first two years seem solely devoted to building bad social and studying habits, leaving 1/4 students highly superior to 3/6 students.

what i don't agree with you on is that research is not only for donating students. 30 of us are going to be starting research projects with the anatomy dept in the fall and i'm sure i'm not the only one of the 30 that has not donated anything.

every school overseas will have its pros and cons. the reasons that i chose poland was because it was the most affordable school that offered (1) rotations in USA, (2) history and experience of making doctors, (3) stafford loans, and (4) approval by all state medical boards. another benefit that it doesn't hurt to have is an EU degree. the major drawback (the motivation factor) didn't stop me because i've always considered myself self-motivated anyway. after being here, i wouldn't change a thing except maybe coming here after undergrad.

[Elssha]

Okay, not to sound overly nitpicky, but the english major part of my brain is cringing.

Having said that...
1- can you give examples of the difference? Do we get worse classrooms? scrap cadavers? Its understandable that they'll favor their own... people who'll stay and practice there, who know the language and culture vs those who come for a couple years and will probably never look back. I'm sure that's true of any international med school that caters to both foreign and domestic students (unlike the carrib ones, which are exclusive to US med students).
2- I know first hand that friends I talk to in Poland think much the same of the fact that if you fail a class at a US school, you don't have to repeat the whole year (as is apparently the case in most of schools over there). This difference is why they have the makeup tests. Oh, and from what i hear, the makeups get harder each time you take them (the prof's are harder on you).
3- can you elaborate on the research you mentioned? I'm curious...

[yahooking]

You get scrap cadavers, i belive the cadavar they have is many years old and i personally used it. (Ofcourse we werent allow to really work with it or diesct it.) Only the polish students get to do that. :/ Classroom wise the schedual is scrap for english students the priority seems to be in favor for polish students. They basically allocate very random times for classes some going as late as 9 PM. I know that the university IS fixing this matter but its very slow. ) As far as research, ill tell you one thing. They DO NOT post research oppertunities anywhere online or in the classroom, students who hunt for Research may get lucky, but i DO know that students who tend to SUCK UP and have terrible grades are given research over students who get remarkable grades. I have seen this first hand with a friend of mine, she aced anatomy and biochemistry but WAS NOT choosen over a student who takes re-takes for almost every test in biochemisty. The school even made a research group, which was specifically told to send email alerts to certain students. I am not aware of any details on your 30 student research for anatomy, BUT communication with HMI doesnt get any better. Im just glad to be done with the b.s of HMI. I just want to provide a clear understanding to people, because i know many regret it. HMI does NOT offer refunds of any kind uptil the 3rd week you are in poland. I mean can you really judge a school in 3 weeks ? They also fail to provide REAL information about the university and passing USMLE percentile. Are you aware that students who completed Lublin a year ago have still not taken the USMLE ? Many are back for rotations in lublin as well, which from what i understand are ok rotations in poland. I am disappointed that people stlill advise others to jump on to HMI's mind playing bandwagon. I advise you people to ask questions, and get your answers BEFORE you waste money and precious time. For you parents, dont send your kid to Poland because HMI ad's on Indian TV. Its nothing like the ads. The ads are not true images of ANY campus in poland, they are actually Medical Schools in INDIA. Where HMI outsources their ad development to.
The CEO bases Carrabian schools like no other when he does a speech, and i believe that he should not do that, because 1) He is NOT a doctor and 2) He propbably hasnt even been to any med school in the carrabian. He does not provide any clear facts in any speech he makes. So i wonder why people even listen to his false acusations and opinions.
The make ups are STUPID EASY...
SOME classes such as Pathology, Pharm, go harder on you for retakes.
Anatomy asked students questions such as Where is the bracial Artery...
OK YOU PASS..
WOW...

[Elssha]

i'm still not sure what kind of research you're talking about...
as for the retakes, I asked my mom (she graduated from the Polish section of that school) and apparently, retakes ARE noted. It's like getting a W in a US college. Yes, you didn't fail the class... but having them is still frowned upon and gives you neg points when people look at your transcripts.
Also, you said you finished Lublin. What are you doing now? Or are you still doing rotations in the US (and if so, where)?

[sp1124]

ok i don't know about the research situation while you were in lublin, but i know that there is a large group of us doing research in the fall. they picked the spots based on grades (more specifically anatomy grade). i find it kind of pointless proving this to someone who is not even in lublin anymore but still doubts some one who is there but here you go: Uniwersytet Medyczny w Lublinie : Research Programs (http://www.umlub.pl/research_programs_id_4512.html), that definitely looks like it is posted online.

also, i'm not trying to make anyone jump on a bandwagon, i'm just trying to represent things how i see them, which is why you see positives and negatives in each of my comments and i even said that it comes down to personal priorities so no prospective student should take someone's opinion as absolute truth.

also, although i agree with you about the cadavers, the schedule thing is a gross exaggeration. it's summer right now so there aren't any timetables up on the school website, but check back when the year is about to start and you will see that the schedule isn't that bad, with the exception of a couple of classes (which even polish students aren't immune from evening classes bc i see polish students coming from/going to class whenever i have an evening class).

retakes are dependent on the class, but most of the classes will eventually pass all of the students, which is why i say that a lot of students get sucked into a false mindset that they are doing fine in school.

[yahooking]

They just started posting the research now i guess. Although when i was there i didnt see any postings. As far as the retakes go, if you look at your friends final transcript no where does it mention that they retook the final exam. It just shows the grade. For example a student who has a passing mark of 3 the first time in lets say... Physiology hold the same weight as a student who took the test 2 times and has a 3. I agree that they are posting research online now which is a good thing, i wish we had the oppertunity. I guess voicing the problems in public really helps as they loose business if they keep up crap. ;)

[sp1124]

agreed, yahooking. they have the ingredients to probably make the best school outside of the states without changing their relatively low price (compared to other ESTABLISHED programs like ross and sgu), but they need to make some changes, and i think admission standards is the main one. i think if you look at all of the major problems that HMI has (usmle passing rates, losing a couple hospitals in the USA, etc.), it comes down to letting students in that were never going to actually make an effort to become a doctor and it was written all over their face from day one.

[JoeBoogie]

I applied for research last semester. I ran into the page you posted above somehow. I emailed the completed form to the address, No one ever replied. I am in good standing in my classes and actually putting in effort. Who replied to the research request and who should i contact?

[sp1124]

dr. greg in the anatomy department. if you go meet with him, you'll probably have a better shot

[JoeBoogie]

dr. greg in the anatomy department. if you go meet with him, you'll probably have a better shot

Will do thanks.

[Moldovanits]

Ross isnt that great either,yes its one of the big four, but as far as tuition you will usually comes out with more than 200k in debt. There class sizes i believe are 450 students, oh and if you fail a class you do have to retake the whole 15k semester over.