NVAO Situation

[tnawaey]

Has anyone called NVAO in Holland to find out exactly what is happening? I will call them later tonight since it's 5am over there right now.

I am concerned because I just received my acceptance packet for January 2010 and I don't know what is going on with the school.

If the school is rejected by NVAO, what will happen to its current students and those in residency?

If anyone has any further information or advice for me, please post. I hope this can be resolved soon.

[kobester]

Well we had a meeting with the Dean earlier in the week. According to him the NVAO is not authorized to approve/deny. They assessed the school last year, and majority of the issues received "satisfactory" except for a couple of things. Financial statements and Research.

According to the Dean, they have began the process to get things going for research etc. He will be the new person in charge (chairman of research committee) etc. I dont know much about financial situation.

Nevertheless the report by NVAO (it is on school's website) says that once the school makes these adjustments then they can reevaluate it and reassess their conclusions. They havent denied the school "Yet".

[HMI]

Well According to him the NVAO is not authorized to approve/deny.

Approve/Deny what? To be in WHO?

If NVAO is not authorized to do so, why is Dean even bothering to get research going?

[Pomeroy]

Approve/Deny what? To be in WHO?

If NVAO is not authorized to do so, why is Dean even bothering to get research going?

While it's not an issue right now, when Statia is part of the Kingdom of the Netherlands, our current accreditation with the Antilles will be gone. At that time, new accreditation will be likely necessary. So addressing the accreditation deficits is prudent and necessary. But it clearly is not an "emergency" to address at this time and will take time to address...it's a long term and ongoing process

[Pomeroy]

Has anyone called NVAO in Holland to find out exactly what is happening? I will call them later tonight since it's 5am over there right now.

I am concerned because I just received my acceptance packet for January 2010 and I don't know what is going on with the school.

If the school is rejected by NVAO, what will happen to its current students and those in residency?

If anyone has any further information or advice for me, please post. I hope this can be resolved soon.

NVAO affects nothing related to currents students. Nothing related to the school in general affects residents...they are done. The school could close and it wouldn't affect them directly.

[Statia Graduate]

No one can say how closing the school will affect anyone, residents and students alike. I can say one thing, it will likely become much more difficult to obtain a license.

[vasman132]

it hasn't affected any states yet statia grad. don't jump to conclusions. and this is not new news either. if something was going to happen against SESOM, it would have happened already.

[Statia Graduate]

I was only speaking in reference to the school closing. I have no idea how that would affect any of us. Attendings, residents, and students. I would imagine that it would make it difficult, but I really don't see it being impossible.

And I'm curious about what you mean, WHAT hasn't affected any of the states yet?

[vasman132]

the NVAO situation.

[Statia Graduate]

the NVAO situation.

Completely agree.

[tnawaey]

I tried calling NVAO- no luck

I sent two emails. Here is their response- I'm not sure they know more than the school and its students.

Dear Sir

The programme Doctor of Medicine (MD) from the Saba University School of Medicine received a positive assessment:



Met vriendelijke groet | with regards
*****************
afdeling Communicatie | Communication Department



SECOND RESPONSE: (after I specifically told them to tell me about Sint Eustatius)

I do not know, you have to ask that to Sint Eustatius.

Met vriendelijke groet | with regards
*****************
afdeling Communicatie | Communication Department

Nederlands-Vlaamse Accreditatieorganisatie (NVAO)
Accreditation Organisation of the Netherlands and Flanders
Parkstraat 28 | 2514 JK Den Haag
Postbus 85498 | 2508 CD Den Haag
PO Box 85498 | 2508 CD The Hague
T 31 70 312 2328
M 31 6 231 06 846
F 31 70 312 23 01



I'm still confused. And since I received my acceptance package last week, I have 3 more weeks to send my $500 deposit. Do any of the current statia students have any updates??

[Pomeroy]

I tried calling NVAO- no luck
I sent two emails. Here is their response- I'm not sure they know more than the school and its students.
The programme Doctor of Medicine (MD) from the Saba University School of Medicine received a positive assessment:
I do not know, you have to ask that to Sint Eustatius.
I'm still confused. And since I received my acceptance package last week, I have 3 more weeks to send my $500 deposit. Do any of the current statia students have any updates??

Not sure what you are confused about. Actually not sure what you are looking for. There have been multiple statements about this issue.

NVAO has no legal authority to carry out an Accreditation in the Netherlands Antilles. The recent reports are not "accreditation" reports. It should not be confused with accreditation. That likely won't happen until 2011. This is only an assessment, and creates the opportunity to make necessary changes.

For USESOM it was a welcome review of our processes. Our U.S. based curriculum is different than the Netherlands. While successful for it's purpose, clearly the U.S. system does not allow us to fit the framework of the Netherlands accrediting body at this time....“it would be virtually impossible for the Netherlands Antilles medical schools to be fully compliant with all Dutch accreditation standards.” There were 4 areas of concern, and all are being addressed (research, faculty, committees, new campus)

Research: The administration is working on addressing the needs expressed, including forming a research committee. We need to further enhance research into the curriculum. The committee will start by creating the protocols and policies necessary to create a thorough, educational research experience for students. Student participation is in the near future.

Faculty: The school is actively working towards improving and increasing the faculty pool. Recruitment is an ongoing process.

Committees: The school is adding those committees deemed necessary for self governance and to address that part of the Netherlands framework. The organization of the committee structure is vital to effective decision making as well as the efficient communication in the university. The school understands that.

New campus: The challenges of economics, a worldwide challenge, stalled efforts to develop the land acquired in 2007. Updated plans and finance documentation are in progress.

Our status with WHO and those bodies necessary to qualify students for "boards" is not an issue. The school has the full support of the transition government on Statia, in the "old" Netherlands Antilles, and from the Netherlands.

The NVAO assessment report and experience was a positive one for SESOM. The areas noted for better fitting into the Dutch educational framework are minor and are all in process of being addressed by Administration with the full intention of conforming prior to a future accreditation by the NVAO. Further, as the NVAO states in their report, “Having witnessed the level of the students and faculty and the commitment to medical education, the assessment committee is confident that the school will be able to implement the necessary changes in order to become NVAO accredited in the future.”

In the mean time, USESOM administration is ready to continue operating, without pause, prior to, during, and beyond the Dutch transition, and well into the future. Under the new dean, the future appears to be bright.

So what are you confused about? :doh: And if the dynamics of the SESOM situation bother you that much, even before you get here, I'd suggest going elsewhere... nothing is more predictable than change, adaptation, and a dynamic environment. But we'll still all be docs!

[AmericanFMG]

Has anyone called NVAO in Holland to find out exactly what is happening? I will call them later tonight since it's 5am over there right now.

I am concerned because I just received my acceptance packet for January 2010 and I don't know what is going on with the school.

If the school is rejected by NVAO, what will happen to its current students and those in residency?

If anyone has any further information or advice for me, please post. I hope this can be resolved soon.

With the exception of AUC, all the med schools in the NA will be closed within the next few years or have to transfer to another island because of the fact that Netherland is taking over these islands and it won't recognize these school and then all will lose their charter and then their WHO recognistion.

[med etudiant]

With the exception of AUC, all the med schools in the NA will be closed within the next few years or have to transfer to another island because of the fact that Netherland is taking over these islands and it won't recognize these school and then all will lose their charter and then their WHO recognistion.

Really? Any facts to back up that statement? Or do you work for the NVAO? Sprechen sie Deutsch?

[Shiz77]

Hey med etudient sorry this is totally off topic but speaking of Dutch, has anyone ever told you that you look like Armin Van Buren??

[med etudiant]

Hey med etudient sorry this is totally off topic but speaking of Dutch, has anyone ever told you that you look like Armin Van Buren??

lol no never Armin Van Buren (I love his music though- esp. when running) People say I look like Brad Pitt though.

[Pomeroy]

With the exception of AUC, all the med schools in the NA will be closed within the next few years or have to transfer to another island because of the fact that Netherland is taking over these islands and it won't recognize these school and then all will lose their charter and then their WHO recognistion.

Totally incorrect and ridiculous, but thanks for the entertainment!

[tnawaey]

thanks for the clarification Pomeroy.

the fact that current students were freaking out on the other threads got me a bit worried...

are you currently a student at Statia? Any advice for an incoming student?
I am planning on getting books ahead of time and studying in advance. Do you recommend a subject that I should review for the first term?

thanks

[med etudiant]

Anyone know why CompassionMD is banned?

[med etudiant]

anyone? please? I thought he was an excellant mod.

[batsheep]

from what I know...

he just did that to let himself focus on study

[HMI]

Quote:
Originally Posted by AmericanFMG http://static.valuemd.com:81/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.valuemd.com/st-eustatius-medical-school/179889-nvao-situation-2.html#post1130777)
With the exception of AUC, all the med schools in the NA will be closed within the next few years or have to transfer to another island because of the fact that Netherland is taking over these islands and it won't recognize these school and then all will lose their charter and then their WHO recognistion.


Totally incorrect and ridiculous, but thanks for the entertainment!

i think amerricanfmg is making a good point. why would netherland want other small schools like st eustatius when it have AUC, right? they can easily put their resource toward auc instead.

[vasman132]

auc is not part of the netherlands.

[JLea]

auc is not part of the netherlands.

Exactly! When the Netherlands Antilles dissolves and the BES (Bonaire, Sint Eustatius, Saba) islands are assimilated into the Netherlands, Sint Maarten (the island that hosts AUC) will become its own country under the headship of the Netherlands (much like Curacao is now). Therefore, the NVAO did not visit AUC to make an assessment.

Now, how can people who are presumably smart enough to be in medical school be so ignorant that they fly off the handle and believe every lie and rumor that is perpetrated? Come on, do some simple research and seek out the sources for yourselves - read what is written, assimilate it and know the truth.

Furthermore, the Netherlands will not be pumping money nor resources into any medical school that is owned by private owners in another country. On the contrary, it is typically the medical schools that pump money into the local economy - directly and indirectly (through students paying rent, buying food, electricity, etc.). It is in the best interests of the BES islands and the Netherlands to keep the medical schools on the islands. Without USESOM, several hundred apartments and homes will go unrented. Duggins Grocery and all the other stores will lose revenue, restaurants and Winair will lose revenue. It is a lose/lose situation for the Netherlands to get rid of USESOM or any other reputable medical school that is now located in the Netherlands Antilles.

Now, one thing does give me pause for concern... The NVAO report gives the impression that USESOM needs to implement a research program. If our students are as poor researchers as has been exhibited in these "The Sky is Falling! NVAO threads," then we just may possibly be denied by the Netherlands. Come one people, take the time to gather your facts from the true sources and find out the truth. Please, stop trashing your own school on VMD. If you're not from USESOM and are trolling / causing trouble, then you are in violation of the TOS and should be dealt with accordingly.

Now, go study something.

[Pomeroy]

Originally Posted by AmericanFMG http://static.valuemd.com:81/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.valuemd.com/st-eustatius-medical-school/179889-nvao-situation-2.html#post1130777)
With the exception of AUC, all the med schools in the NA will be closed within the next few years or have to transfer to another island because of the fact that Netherland is taking over these islands and it won't recognize these school and then all will lose their charter and then their WHO recognistion.

HMI: i think amerricanfmg is making a good point. why would netherland want other small schools like st eustatius when it have AUC, right? they can easily put their resource toward auc instead.

Hey HMI, AmericanFMG doesn't have a good point/ It's no point at all! Private medical schools aren't "had" by any agency in the Netherlands or the Antilles for that matter. NVAO is not about ownership or where to put resources. The BES islands are becoming part of the Netherlands as the Antilles dissolves and NVAO represents the "national accreditation" for the Netherlands. They won't "own" any school in the BES (Bonaire, Eustatius, Saba).

[JLea]

i think amerricanfmg is making a good point. why would netherland want other small schools like st eustatius when it have AUC, right? they can easily put their resource toward auc instead.

Moreover, if you are truly a medical student (or rising medical student), how about learning how to spell, capitalize and punctuate?

Perhaps Windsor would be a better fit for you. And, you'd get to see Sint Eustatius every day and wish that you had not trashed the school which had given you an opportunity to graduate, match and eventually practice medicine.

[FutureStudent]

Nice to see another 'student' on the payroll :)

[Bubkas1]

FS, what school do you work for?

[vasman132]

i know. i wish i was on the payroll.

[NewbiePA]

I am not sure why St. Martin/AUC would be exempt from the NVAO. This forum seems to have an intelligent discussion of the role of the organization. I read on a website for the US Dept. of Education-Committee on Foreign Medical Education, that the NVAO is recognized by the USA as a legitimate accrediting body. So, would it mean that schools approved by the NVAO would be eligible for Stafford loans? Anyone have an opinion? Thanks

[JLea]

Sint Maarten (the Dutch side of the island) will not be a part of Holland, like the BES islands. Since they will not be part of Holland, they don't fall under the NVAO authority.

It seems that the owners of the Big 4 have got enough money and the back pockets of enough of our Congressmen and Senators to keep us from ever getting Stafford loans. It would be nice, though. Perhaps we should all show up at town hall meetings and yell at our representatives? Can we say "grassroots?"

Sure do wish the school would pay me for being a lackey for them...:doh:

[Evereadyclassic]

Sorry to post on your board even though I'm from Saba. Just thought I'd add my two cents. Saba does have a letter from NVAO stating that according to the accreditation standards that were set out it passes. However, as was correctly stated NVAO has no authority in Saba or anywhere else in the Antilles...yet.

The other schools, and Saba as well for that matter, were given a "to do" list, ours listed: involving all students and faculty in research activities. The reason for our Netherlands Antilles schools needing new accreditation is pretty simple. WHO has a rule that every medical school must be accredited by the country that their campus occupies (new rule actually written because of a school in England that was basically a doctor factory for other countries). Right now, we're all sitting pretty, we're all accredited by an international accreditation body (whose name escapes me right now) and NA accepts that. However, when the transition happens where our islands become part of the Netherlands proper, there is some gray area over how our schools would be dealt with should NVAO not accredit us.

The good news, is that the NVAO seems convinced that we'll be able to make accreditation when the time comes...if we make a few changes. Changes that are actually pretty good for us as students, as they are concerned that we should get more research experience and also they want some guarantee that if our schools go bankrupt that they have a contigency plan for everyone to graduate.

AUC as was also mentioned previously will not be coming under the authority of NVAO, and so does not have to make any changes. However, they have to live with going to the hell hole that is AUC.

[bighapa77]

the NVAO has not rejected USESOM. the committee that came to the island was an assessment for the NVAO accreditation, a process which will probably take place sometime in the next couple years. the results were posted on the website and there are four areas that need to be addressed. it has nothing to do with WHO nor with the stability of the school