Standards slipping at Saba?

[thedeepend]

I am currently going to school here and it is seems that there is not enough control over curriculum. Certain teachers are able to just teach whatever they seem interested in and losing focus of the overall goal - practicing and writing boards. I feel that I have to study to pass their lame tests and not for truely learning the material that we will need to prosper as an MD. I am wondering if this is a new trend and I am hoping that I did not make the wrong choice of schools. I have a friend that is strongly thinking about going to school here and I don't know if I would recommend it. Other schools that might maintain the focus on important material and have better quality teaching staff maybe be a better idea.

[huxald]

Couple of things;

Don't let anything get in between you and learning medicine. If you feel like you aren't getting what you need; supplement it with extra studying.

What makes you think clinicals or any other aspect of your career will be any different...this is why they call it the Art of Medicine, because part of it involves character. NEVER doubt your own abilities and ALWAYS take ownership for your own learning irrespective of who's teaching you.

when you feel stressed and are doubting...just join in the grumbles with your friends during a study break, and then get back to work.. :D

SUSOM is licensed in all 50 states...and has betting putting out students who have gotten residencies in orthopedics/derm/etc...maybe they are doing something right...

It's the student that makes the school, not the other way around.

You only get out of things what you put in...so take as much as you can, and enjoy the ups and downs of this boot-camp....errr....journey.

All the very best!

[Tellingitlikeitis]

just thought you should know....
american medical schools have increased enrollment about 3 years ago, which means that for the 2011 match there will be many more american grads to compete with. Means that you need to be doing amazing on your step 1.
good luck

[Dr.30564]

just thought you should know....
american medical schools have increased enrollment about 3 years ago, which means that for the 2011 match there will be many more american grads to compete with. Means that you need to be doing amazing on your step 1.
good luck


just great . . .

[thedeepend]

You make a very good point. Sometimes it just seems that they might not have your best interests in mind, but maybe I am not seeing the whole picture. Thanks for the input!


Couple of things;

Don't let anything get in between you and learning medicine. If you feel like you aren't getting what you need; supplement it with extra studying.

What makes you think clinicals or any other aspect of your career will be any different...this is why they call it the Art of Medicine, because part of it involves character. NEVER doubt your own abilities and ALWAYS take ownership for your own learning irrespective of who's teaching you.

when you feel stressed and are doubting...just join in the grumbles with your friends during a study break, and then get back to work.. :D

SUSOM is licensed in all 50 states...and has betting putting out students who have gotten residencies in orthopedics/derm/etc...maybe they are doing something right...

It's the student that makes the school, not the other way around.

You only get out of things what you put in...so take as much as you can, and enjoy the ups and downs of this boot-camp....errr....journey.

All the very best!

[ElGuapo]

Yup, there are certain professors who seem to think we are in a Phd program in their particular subject and not in med school. But alas, that's just something we have to deal with. There's always BRS, Kaplan, First Aid etc. to help you pick out the high yield/board relevant stuff. It's by no means something that is unique to Saba. I know friends enrolled in American schools who tell me that some of their professors have no clue about what's important as far as the boards are concerned.

At the end of the day, there's so much you'll simply have to relearn anyway. Can the average 4th semester student honestly say that he remembers all of anatomy as well as he knew it at the end of 1st semester? He's going to have to relearn a lot of it and chances are he will consult with Kaplan/BRS/First Aid etc. and key in on the high yield information.

[darkmansaad]

Point #1 - if you are in basic sci classes you have no idea what you are talking about and have no idea what is on the boards or how to study for it. Shut up, study what your prof gives you and try to do the best with what he says regardless of how you feel about it. Get through basic sciences, and then study for your boards based on previous threads or (reliable!) advice you have gotten on how to study. I got mostly B's and C's in my basic sci courses and unfortunately never complained about it on ValueMD and then smoked my boards.

And yes, tellingitlikeitis is 100% correct. Good luck matching without a 90+ (most likely 95+) for average competitiveness after 2010 match, and guess what? Crying on ValueMD about the profs or the NBME saba gives you at the end and how they shouldnt fail people that fail by a few points wont save you or them from scrambling and possibly not getting a spot. So it looks like the advice i've been giving on this board for the past 2 years = Shut up, stop crying and work your behind off, is now pretty much the only way your going to get a spot PERIOD. And if your scores arent great (and i dont mean bad i mean not a 99), establish a solid connection at programs you rotate at, they may be your only bet for a spot in the future.

[sydneyriver]

DarkMan,

"Good luck matching without a 90+ (most likely 95+) for average competitiveness after 2010 match?"

Could you provide a reference for this?

Regards,

[darkmansaad]

Ummm, use your common sense. American med schools will have increased enrollment and are in the process of adding entire new schools. Meantime, the residency spots are going to stay static and possibly drop...the numbers are out there if you would like to google them I am not going to because a) I am not affected as I match 2010 and b) Do your own work. Already its hard enough to match without somewhat decent #'s and I have seen many people with 85's on the boards as IMG's not match and have to scramble. In the future with AMG's (american med grads) with the same board scores or higher, they will most definitely take any spots for Independent Applicants (IMG's, DO's, etc) and will force the board score rate to go over 90 even for Family Med and the lesser competitive specialties. This will also almost completely kill any chance for IMG's to hit the uber competitive specialties and will also most likely murder the Caribbean Medical School market except for the Big 4 (SGU, Ross, SABA, AUC) as they are licensed in all 50 states and have good clinical rotation connections which will probably be the main "in" for prospective grads that dont have stellar boards. If you dont believe me or think im full of it, google it yourself, american grads have been telling me about it for the last few years as well. This day has been coming for a LONG time, only way to get ready for it is to stop crying and just work hard.

[JeebusLives]

just thought you should know....
american medical schools have increased enrollment about 3 years ago, which means that for the 2011 match there will be many more american grads to compete with. Means that you need to be doing amazing on your step 1.
good luck

Lame... maybe i should have rushed and gone for 2010.

[med etudiant]

S. 973: Resident Physician Shortage Reduction Act of 2009 (GovTrack.us) (http://www.govtrack.us/congress/bill.xpd?bill=s111-973)

[med etudiant]

AAMC : Legislative Action Center -- Urge Expansion of Medicare Support for Graduate Medical Education (GME) (http://capwiz.com/aamc/issues/alert/?alertid=13474961&PROCESS=Take+Action)

Take 2 minutes and write your senator and congressman. I actually received a personal email from my senator a week after I emailed him. This link makes it fast and easy to write him/her.

[Experienced]

Couple of things;

Don't let anything get in between you and learning medicine. If you feel like you aren't getting what you need; supplement it with extra studying.

What makes you think clinicals or any other aspect of your career will be any different...this is why they call it the Art of Medicine, because part of it involves character. NEVER doubt your own abilities and ALWAYS take ownership for your own learning irrespective of who's teaching you.

when you feel stressed and are doubting...just join in the grumbles with your friends during a study break, and then get back to work.. :D

SUSOM is licensed in all 50 states...and has betting putting out students who have gotten residencies in orthopedics/derm/etc...maybe they are doing something right...

It's the student that makes the school, not the other way around.

You only get out of things what you put in...so take as much as you can, and enjoy the ups and downs of this boot-camp....errr....journey.

All the very best!

Listen very carefully to what Hux said. Read it again and if you need to write it and put it on your mirror, do that. Read it every day and when you question your decision to come to Saba, I want you also to remember 5 little words:

EXTRAORDINARY FIRST TIME PASS RATE

Then say 'Cleveland Clinic, Mayo Clinic, Dalhousie, derm, ortho, derm' until you are ready to grab a book again and become a physician.

E.

-

[Experienced]

AAMC : Legislative Action Center -- Urge Expansion of Medicare Support for Graduate Medical Education (GME) (http://capwiz.com/aamc/issues/alert/?alertid=13474961&PROCESS=Take+Action)

Take 2 minutes and write your senator and congressman. I actually received a personal email from my senator a week after I emailed him. This link makes it fast and easy to write him/her.

Thanks for this !!! I just wrote mine. Like he said, it takes 2 minutes.

E.

-

[Dr.30564]

Thanks for this !!! I just wrote mine. Like he said, it takes 2 minutes.

E.

-

ditto. simple and takes a minute.

[med etudiant]

Thanks for writing! Spread the word (or link in this case) to fellow students!

[darkmansaad]

I have an alternative theory to the intense amount of crying I see on this msg board. I think people need to stop being internet gangsters and need to get laid a little more to relax them from their studying stress. The best way to do this is to workout and do cardio and get jacked. When you wake up and look in the mirror and see 6 abs looking back, you will smile in the morning i promise you. Then when you go to campus and wear a tight muscle tee and catch girls checking you out, you will smile more. Then when your relaxed self aces a test and goes to open mic night and one of those girls earlier is at swinging doors drunk and hitting on you, you will really smile.

And vice versa if you are a girl reading this

[thedeepend]

Point #1 - if you are in basic sci classes you have no idea what you are talking about and have no idea what is on the boards or how to study for it. Shut up, study what your prof gives you and try to do the best with what he says regardless of how you feel about it. Get through basic sciences, and then study for your boards based on previous threads or (reliable!) advice you have gotten on how to study. I got mostly B's and C's in my basic sci courses and unfortunately never complained about it on ValueMD and then smoked my boards.

And yes, tellingitlikeitis is 100% correct. Good luck matching without a 90+ (most likely 95+) for average competitiveness after 2010 match, and guess what? Crying on ValueMD about the profs or the NBME saba gives you at the end and how they shouldnt fail people that fail by a few points wont save you or them from scrambling and possibly not getting a spot. So it looks like the advice i've been giving on this board for the past 2 years = Shut up, stop crying and work your behind off, is now pretty much the only way your going to get a spot PERIOD. And if your scores arent great (and i dont mean bad i mean not a 99), establish a solid connection at programs you rotate at, they may be your only bet for a spot in the future.

Thanks for your input. It seems like it's just the way things are. Bottom line I know I have to bust my ***. I just don't like my time wasted. I do very well in school, but I would like to focus on areas that are relevant. Not the fancy of a teacher, who likes a certain subject and wants to waste an abundance of time on it.

[gumby]

Thanks for your input. It seems like it's just the way things are. Bottom line I know I have to bust my ***. I just don't like my time wasted. I do very well in school, but I would like to focus on areas that are relevant. Not the fancy of a teacher, who likes a certain subject and wants to waste an abundance of time on it.

Whatever teachers you have in basic sciences, they have nothing to do with your board scores or getting a good residency. It is all up to you. The sooner you realize that passing basic sciences is just another hoop to jump through, and not the end all be all of your medical education, the sooner you will quit worrying about your 'time' being wasted. You have to get through basic sciences. Big deal. Everybody has the same challenge. Where you make your own success is in your independent preparation for the boards. That has nothing to do with what school you go to, who your professors were, what lectures covered or didn't cover, or whatever distracting though might creep into your head.
One last thing, you have no idea what is 'relevant'. All basic sciences are relevant, all the minute details matter. Most of the things done by doctors can be done equally well by PA's, nurses, technicians, etc. What makes the difference, and why earning your MD is such a big deal, is all the details. You get the big bucks not for doing the ordinary and routine stuff, but for the ability to handle the out of the ordinary and unusual. That's why you have to study so much. Now go read something.

[ZIMAgo]

I have an alternative theory to the intense amount of crying I see on this msg board. I think people need to stop being internet gangsters and need to get laid a little more to relax them from their studying stress. The best way to do this is to workout and do cardio and get jacked. When yo

How about growing a mustache too? nothing like smiling with a tight stache and maybe a friedly pair of mutton chops

[mrkaleel]

Saba's standards are not slipping and if anything our avg step score are increasing. Dont take for granted any material you are learning. If you feel it's not enough, its up to you to make up the time by studying relevant stuff on your own, you are already deep in this program and at the end of the day you will be the one who will face the music on match day with your scores. But, however you feel, it is enough and many Saba grads have proved it. Nobody on the island should have the feeling of self-entitelment to diss the program when its the only thing giving them a chance after being rejected most other places.

[darkmansaad]

wow, i think you guys should memorize whatever mrkaleel and gumby just said. Nurses, PAs, techs, and other glorified midlevels are moving on doctors turf non stop so if you cry about little details on books that podiatrists and pa's use for THEIR boards what does that make you? Not saying podiatrists and pa's are bad, but if you guys want any respect as a physician it starts now with taking responsibility for your own results and not crying about your professor or the curriculum. Now let this thread die

[atropine]

wow, i think you guys should memorize whatever mrkaleel and gumby just said. Nurses, PAs, techs, and other glorified midlevels are moving on doctors turf non stop so if you cry about little details on books that podiatrists and pa's use for THEIR boards what does that make you? Not saying podiatrists and pa's are bad, but if you guys want any respect as a physician it starts now with taking responsibility for your own results and not crying about your professor or the curriculum. Now let this thread die
A lot of the details we are learning are completely useless...a lot more of them that we think are useless are not, and are things that will make us doctors and not midlevels. Midlevels function by protocols, algorithms and formulas. Doctors are supposed to function by a better understanding of medicine for all those instances when you can't apply your patient to a prewritten formula of patient care. For instance CRNAs are trying to take over all anesthesia care in the US right now, but they have no idea how to handle more complicated ASA 4-5 cases.

[Dr. Jay]

Did SABA just increased their tuition?

[atropine]

Did SABA just increased their tuition?
Yes they did just increase the tuition, I think by just under $1000 per semester.

[mario345]

Ummm, use your common sense. American med schools will have increased enrollment and are in the process of adding entire new schools. Meantime, the residency spots are going to stay static and possibly drop...the numbers are out there if you would like to google them I am not going to because a) I am not affected as I match 2010 and b) Do your own work. Already its hard enough to match without somewhat decent #'s and I have seen many people with 85's on the boards as IMG's not match and have to scramble. In the future with AMG's (american med grads) with the same board scores or higher, they will most definitely take any spots for Independent Applicants (IMG's, DO's, etc) and will force the board score rate to go over 90 even for Family Med and the lesser competitive specialties. This will also almost completely kill any chance for IMG's to hit the uber competitive specialties and will also most likely murder the Caribbean Medical School market except for the Big 4 (SGU, Ross, SABA, AUC) as they are licensed in all 50 states and have good clinical rotation connections which will probably be the main "in" for prospective grads that dont have stellar boards. If you dont believe me or think im full of it, google it yourself, american grads have been telling me about it for the last few years as well. This day has been coming for a LONG time, only way to get ready for it is to stop crying and just work hard.
??????
since when did American grads become the authority on predicting residency match dynamics.
medical school enrollment has been increasingly steadily every year for the last 15 years. no school doubles, or substantially increases its graduating class in one year because there are a lot of logistics that go behind this, and it is impossible to do this overnight.
as for new schools, the only one i know which is opening next year is in Pennsylvannia - the number of schools has stayed around 130 in U.S, and enrollment has not exceeded over 5-10% per class.
secondly, if you compare the match results from year to year, all residency programs have increased spots (except radiology).

how else do you expect to deal with this doctor shortage and increasing student load? and residency programs have absolutely no issues with this because its cheap labor that they are getting.
residents run hospitals and if you are a competitive applicant, you will definitely find a spot of your liking [except derm, orth, rads].

lets not try to create panic among students and discourage anyone. there are ~23000 residency spots available in total every year. ~14000 or so are taken up by U.S. grads. the difference is up for competition among IMGs.
Among the IMGs, the carib students from U.S. from a top 4 school have atleast 4 things going for them:
1) 2 years of U.S. hospital clerkship
2) visa status
3) U.S. doctors LORs
4) langauge proficiency

this on top of the scores.

i dont know why is there such a negative attitude about this residency match stuff. just this year IMGs were scrambling into anesthesia which is considered a competitive residency!

there are still spots open for FP, IM and surgery after match has finished and residencies have started. so please, stop misleading students and potential applicants based on only what you have 'heard' from american students. they are not some god's gift to earth and probably know just as much as us.

best of luck to you in the match, hope you get in to your first choice.

the above information is synthesized from Iserson's guide to residency, which is considered the bible of matching and residency process. its not from google, american grads, or some enthusiastic PDs.

[darkmansaad]

If you think i formulate my opinion SOLELY on opinions of others (much like anyone who really believes anything on internet forums...like ValueMD), you dont know me very well. That was just a figure of speech, I do my homework and learn about the situation I am in...thats my take on it, and it has about as much validity on your take on it. However, I will add the caveat that I am not wrong about stuff like this and get enough emails and msgs on a daily basis from other students asking me advice on various issues. Im not saying Im the man...but im saying that you should relax and listen, you rarely ever agree with anything I post and I think if you get away from that you'll see what Im saying is fairly accurate.

Also......its still a good idea to go along with my train of thought because if you are prepared for my doomsday scenario and your scenario ends up being the correct one...then you will be insanely prepared and will have almost no problems matching. And isnt that what you REALLY want?

But if your wrong and Im right ....then anyone going along with your train of thought miiight be in a sticky situation.......gotta prepare for the worst while hoping for the best my man


PS - my twin brother had to scramble for a spot this year (American student with 230/256 on his steps). Trust me there were no IM available, and the surgery prelims (pure hell on earth) were gone within 48 hours. He got a transitional year purely on connections and is reapplying. Also scramble is the worst experience you will encounter with phone lines that dont work and faxes that dont go through. If you would like to avoid it, try listening to me, I've been there.

[mario345]

i hear you, and i am not disagreeing with you. I really admire your aggressiveness and the train of thought, and people need to develop it too because it gives meaning to this education. However its best to research everything before making a decision.
anyhow, before i continue, i would like to correct myself on two accounts:
1) i mistakenly said that spots for IM were still available. I meant to say that spots for IM were still available long after the scramble. Other stuff is genereally true about the match this year.
2) I think the number of spots of residencies (23000 and 14000) may be a bit outdated as the iserson i have is from 2003. I think it shouldnt be that off though, and there should be a proportion increase in both.

yes it is getting very difficult to match, esp. for IMGs, and anyone who thinks otherwise needs to wake up. however, this is where carib grads from top 4 schools are better than the rest of the IMGs.
first of all, if you look at it...SABA graduates 180 in any given year, ross does 250...auc and st. george's are similar i think....overall, top 4 carib schools are less than a 1000 applicants. this, along with the fact that 80-85% will match into IM/FP/Psych/Surgery.
The 10-15% remaining, will not apply to competitive residencies unless there scores are 95+, with LORs with some research done. this, plus that they are US citizens.
i think this narrows down the pool a LOT, compared to someone from india or russia [the resident i am working with now, had triple 99 on his usmles, but he only secured a prelim in surgery as he is from nepal]. thats how bad it is if you dont have establiushed U.S. residence.
im not saying that its a piece of cake, but its definitely EASIER to match given our odds are slightly improved.

im trying to match in a competitive residency as well, and i have everything going against me, i.e. have only 3 weeks to write the CK and will finish rotations on the first day of residency thats if i get them back to back. still im gonna try.

i am hopeful that i will match though because i want to and i am actively pursuing it. seeing how anesth. was scrambled into this match gives me hope. hopefullu it wont come down to that, but if it does...im gonna be on that fone like caramel on that cake i saw at starbucks on my eay to the gym but didnt eat. ;)
whats the worst that can happen? will sit out a year...well that was gonna happen anyway, as i started in jan 07. :)

again best of luck to all of us matching this year. it will put an end to a LONG arduous road.

[Experienced]

I'm wondering which professor will flee Saba next? First it was Dr J (path), then Dr K (neuro), and now Dr A (genetics, biochem) and Dr F (ethics, psych). Any guesses who's next??

E.



-

[mario345]

dr. C! hehehe ;)
i hope not, i loved the hawaiian shirts in the morning.

[Experienced]

YouTube - **** McCartney - All Things Must Pass [live, Madrid \'200"]400 Bad Request

[darkmansaad]

heres a tip if you have a year off....apply through the NIH website they have research opportunities available to those with their MD degree available. Instead of working some schmo job to pass the time, get a job with an NIH research grant and get something published....especially if its in a field you are applying to. That will open more doors than you think......

[rokshana]

.

im trying to match in a competitive residency as well, and i have everything going against me, i.e. have only 3 weeks to write the CK and will finish rotations on the first day of residency thats if i get them back to back. still im gonna try.

if that is true, you will sit out a year, because you won't be able to get your ECFMG certfication in time to start a residency...

[tanthalas]

I'm wondering which professor will flee Saba next? First it was Dr J (path), then Dr K (neuro), and now Dr A (genetics, biochem) and Dr F (ethics, psych). Any guesses who's next??

E.



-

Whoa...I knew Dr. A was leaving which SUCKS cuz she's a great prof...but Dr. F also? Is Dr. F going to the same place as Dr. A?
Dr. F is a very cool guy...this really blows...I'm assuming Dr. A's departure means that biochem is going to get tougher particularly if Dr. C picks up the slack.

[mario345]

if that is true, you will sit out a year, because you won't be able to get your ECFMG certfication in time to start a residency...
there are ways around that....

[mario345]

..............edited

[mario345]

heres a tip if you have a year off....apply through the NIH website they have research opportunities available to those with their MD degree available. Instead of working some schmo job to pass the time, get a job with an NIH research grant and get something published....especially if its in a field you are applying to. That will open more doors than you think......
thanks dude...
i looked into it research as well...and i already have 2 projects finished...but i find research very time consuming and something im not 100% enthusiatic about.
however, i will definitely look into this, as i will have more time.

[thedeepend]

The situation here is still tentative. The loss of several good teachers has been balanced out with the gain of some very good new ones. The new neuro guy Dr. O rocks. The other guy, not so much. The loss of Dr. C is very hard in Psych. I am predicting the worst shelf scores ever!
The big difference is that the failing rate has gone up significantly here. It seems like a deliberate attempt to increase income for the school or just keep the absolute best students to have the best Step 1 scores. The weeding-out process of the 1st few semesters now applies to all the semesters. They will fail you no problem. This was not such an issue in the past. From talking to old professors, it is definitely different and not necessarily for the best.
If you make it through, then I have no doubt that you will be prepared to rock the step. Although people should know that about only 30% of a class make it all the way through without having to repeat a class. Just FYI to those considering the school.

[rokshana]

or maybe the caliber of students have changed now that saba is taking in more students?

[thedeepend]

That is possible, but they are not taking that many more. They are physically unable to handle much more than 100-110 per semester. The may class started at just over a 100 and they were down to high eighties pretty fast. The island just can't handle more. I have heard it is getting harder to get in and the standards are going up. Thus, you would figure that the classes are getting smarter. Who knows?

[darkmansaad]

stop crying, most people in the match this year have reported that interviews are harder and harder to get by. I am not exaggerating I am extremely worried and I am not applying for a crazy specialty with insane scores and LOR's. Your only attitude should be survive and persevere....if you think basic sciences is tough/stressful......just wait til match.

ps that goes double for you canadians. Honestly, the need for a visa precludes you from most upper residencies or top programs. I know some of my friends with baller scores and not getting any love from their top choices and settling for their backup specialty just cuz they need visas. I will write a detailed post about my match experience and those i speak to regularly (theres a few people i regularly exchange convos with and experience with) to give you guys an idea but it IS NOT PRETTY especially now more than ever and WILL GET WORSE. Get busy living OR get busy dying


NOW LET THIS THREAD DIE!!!!!!!!!

[thedeepend]

Thanks for your input Saad. I'm not really just crying about it, I want people to know what to expect by coming here. The schooling is not terrible, it is hard but very managable, IMO. Yes, in some ways, it is good for the challenge and hopefully that translates into being that much more prepared for our exams. You may just have fond memories of the way it was, but it has changed. You message is good though: just persevere, have a good attitude and bust your ***. I agree totally. Saba is still a very good school, but for people applying it might be better to at least consider other schools. If I knew it would be this way, I would have strongly considered other schools.
Of the best things about Saba is the cost, but the loan program is terrible! It will not be much different in cost by the time I finish Saba, with the pooh poohty Ed-invest loan and it's ridiculous rates, or if I had gone to St. Georges. If they had good loans, it would be the best way to go, hands down.
Just my 2 cents.

[darkmansaad]

ok we agree, if you have a choice go to St Georges

for reasons that are long and complicated and i will explain in my post match ValueMD post.
Actually, let me rephrase. If primary care is ok with you, go to saba, as you will get the same thing as you would get sgu at 1/3 the price. If you want baller residency specialty or good location....i would think about paying the premium for SGU. I am sure i will match wehre i want in what i want...but i am just as easily not going to...but i will give final thoughts after i match for those trying next year and the year after that. For now...i stand by what i say above.

ps - the education at saba was great. the profs were great. my friends were great. the typical med school losers in class were terrible to deal with, but no escaping that. im referring to pure connections from sgu, which you get for paying triple the tuition. hit you back on the flipside....keep bustin your tail and doing WORK

[atropine]

If you had the money to afford SGU and you're a Canadian trying to match back home, I'd say Ireland or Australia is a much better idea than SGU.

For Americans it seems like SGU is the best bet.

[Snakes on a Cane]

Good call, atropine

[survivors]

There seems to be a mob-like mentality here on this site.

Voice a few concerns and there are a number of "regulars" that will attack you. Is there nothing else you have to be doing?! Than to constantly monitoring this site in case your plans are exploited?!

May be this time you should pray 6 times a day because we are not going to let this slip.

[darkmansaad]

New account? 5 posts? all today? Threads that start out with the words "So I hear..."?

ZERO LEGITIMACY
Im not saying that your wrong or right, im just saying what your saying carries zero worth. If i were to make any accusations, people would believe me on the sole basis that a) i've been posting regularly (not inflaming) since I got in and b) 75% of people on this forum know who i am like my face and name if not my email address. You cant make up a new account and make up these accusations. And secondly this isnt NYU or Michigan State Medical School. This is Saba. You went here for a reason, dont forget that reason. And as for low grades, I was a b-/b student the entire time here except for my 4th semester. You wouldnt guess it from my board scores and Letters of Rec. Thats because I learned and didnt let a number tell me that i dindt do good or not. ALSO NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR GRADES ON THE ISLAND SERIOUSLY....NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR GRADES WHETHER ITS AN 83 OR 99 IN PATH.

Get back to studying

[buddababa]

survivor, you have a shelf on monday...study for it

[survivors]

There seems to be a mob-like mentality here on this site.

Voice a few concerns and there are a number of "regulars" that will attack you. Is there nothing else you have to be doing?! Than to constantly monitoring this site in case your plans are exploited?!

May be this time you should pray 6 times a day because we are not going to let this slip.

[Tellingitlikeitis]

your telling me kid!

[atropine]

There seems to be a mob-like mentality here on this site.

Voice a few concerns and there are a number of "regulars" that will attack you. Is there nothing else you have to be doing?! Than to constantly monitoring this site in case your plans are exploited?!

May be this time you should pray 6 times a day because we are not going to let this slip.

We should all be more like darkman and just tell you to quit whining and grow up. Instead we're all trying to give you helpful advice in a friendly way, and now we're attacking you? Patience is running thin, soooo:

1. Get off VMD and go study for your shelf and NBME
2. Anyone who is cheating is only doing themselves a disservice come NBME + Step 1 time, so don't worry about what they're doing. I know med students are mostly Type A, but why are you comparing your scores to cheaters anyway?
3. Badmouthing your own school in a public domain isn't very intelligent
4. The school isn't condoning any cheating, and they responded appropriately to the information they received by making new questions
5. Looking at old test questions is common at universities...my undergrad course websites had old photocopied exams which you could study off. You can study from 1000s of questions from Qbank, Kaplan, RR, etc and invariably many similar questions will show up on your test. It doesn't matter if a question shows up word-for-word on the real exam as long as you understand the material that they're examining and don't just memorize what the answer was. If you just memorized the answer, see #2 above.

[Tellingitlikeitis]

they dont condone cheaters, but its ok if some of the staff are convicted drug offenders right? hahaha

[darkmansaad]

you guys are lucky someone like me does not have mod power i would seriously block you losers. You ignored the key part of my post: NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR GRADES ON SABA!

you can cheat for that A, you know what, have it. You have the step 1 which is uncheatable trust me, it twists physiology into immuno into path and then asks for the pharmacology as the answer. Good luck getting good scores with cheating on that. And oh yeah if you think getting res is easy...ask anyone on the interview trail even with ridiculous scores i know MANY people that are hurting for interviews.

Worry about yourself, let the world fall apart if it wants...you study for YOURSELF and your OWN BOARD SCORE. If people truly are cheating, time will separate them eventually....being a doctor is the most respected profession on earth my friend and only your hard work will take you there. And you shouldnt insult 'regulars' like myself. We go through a ridiculously confusing process of 4 years and try to make sense of it for the people behind us instead of inciting some sort of internet rebellion...show some respect for the advice and the time i take out of my day for people ill probably never meet.

Oh yeah you also ignored why your account was created this morning at 9 am.........real legitimate user who MUST BE UNBIASED....right?

[awelchnp]

Come on Darkman...... don't take the TROLL bait :rolleyes:..... You have a UCLA interview to prep for....Get to it!!!!! Good luck BTW!!

[survivors]

I'm just a bit curious why some students who are spending most of their time on here are quite worried about the truth that is being said here.

Stop wasting your time and your parents' money on here and instead of feeling like you can cheat and get by you should be studying at this point and perhaps worrying about what might happen to your "hard earned" 98s might not be a good idea since you have no control over that.

The only article you have control over is to chose to be honest or chose to use the back doors for everything you do. And so far you have chosen the back doors on Saba and I'm hoping that the school will finally realize to show you the backdoor out!

I am not going to sit here and argue with a bunch of students who have lost their manners and can't understand one bit that they are suppose to become doctors and cannot confront someone who is simply trying to have a conversation on the reality that people have cheated instead to be bombarded by 2 people who are scared from their lives. And to think that you two can stop me is something to ponder about!

Perhaps if you knew who I was would have stopped you a long time ago.

I know most of your parents those who are decent and honest to be exact. We are not going to ruin your lives if you have been honest you have nothing to worry about. End of discussion.

[Dr. Jay]

New account? 5 posts? all today? Threads that start out with the words "So I hear..."?

ZERO LEGITIMACY
Im not saying that your wrong or right, im just saying what your saying carries zero worth. If i were to make any accusations, people would believe me on the sole basis that a) i've been posting regularly (not inflaming) since I got in and b) 75% of people on this forum know who i am like my face and name if not my email address. You cant make up a new account and make up these accusations. And secondly this isnt NYU or Michigan State Medical School. This is Saba. You went here for a reason, dont forget that reason. And as for low grades, I was a b-/b student the entire time here except for my 4th semester. You wouldnt guess it from my board scores and Letters of Rec. Thats because I learned and didnt let a number tell me that i dindt do good or not. ALSO NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR GRADES ON THE ISLAND SERIOUSLY....NO ONE CARES ABOUT YOUR GRADES WHETHER ITS AN 83 OR 99 IN PATH.

Get back to studying





Darkman...if you don't mind me asking, what was your mcat score. You seem to be a good standardized test taker.

[darkmansaad]

I'm just a bit curious why some students who are spending most of their time on here are quite worried about the truth that is being said here.

Stop wasting your time and your parents' money on here and instead of feeling like you can cheat and get by you should be studying at this point and perhaps worrying about what might happen to your "hard earned" 98s might not be a good idea since you have no control over that.

The only article you have control over is to chose to be honest or chose to use the back doors for everything you do. And so far you have chosen the back doors on Saba and I'm hoping that the school will finally realize to show you the backdoor out!

I am not going to sit here and argue with a bunch of students who have lost their manners and can't understand one bit that they are suppose to become doctors and cannot confront someone who is simply trying to have a conversation on the reality that people have cheated instead to be bombarded by 2 people who are scared from their lives. And to think that you two can stop me is something to ponder about!

Perhaps if you knew who I was would have stopped you a long time ago.

I know most of your parents those who are decent and honest to be exact. We are not going to ruin your lives if you have been honest you have nothing to worry about. End of discussion.

no offense but you are an idiot. Your in saba to become a doctor not bring renegade students to justice. And your post seems to insinuate that I cheated on saba? Are you high? I just said I was a B student tops most of my time there, that would make me a horrible cheater first off and second off that wouldnt explain my board scores nor my grades in rotations nor my letters of rec.

Seriously get off your high horse and read my post to which you replied to. You dindt answer one single point I made, all you did was make irrational moral arguments with nonsensical statements about "truth" and "honor" and "decency" and something about if i knew who you were I would stop posting. It sounds to me like you are George Bush Jr the way you talk and the threats you seem to make which again make zero sense. I never debated if you were right and wrong lets get that straight. All I said was you are in med school to become a doctor and if you work hard then if everyone around you is cheating it wont matter. They wont cheat on their boards and they wont cheat on their residency applications, PURE AND SIMPLE.

And now for the cocky part of my response. Until you prove to me that
a) you are a student who has FINISHED his saba curriculum (yeah thats me)
b) has aced all his boards (yeah thats me again)
c) has golden letters of recommendation (yup, me again)
d) have made helpful posts about his experience in an attempt to help those behind him avoid the mistakes he has made (oh yeah...thats me again) rather than BIASED posts where he spouts righteousness (oh snap! thats you!)
e) is in the actual match, therefore making his point of view completely superior to yours to anyone that reads this forum who wants to do all of the above and then match (OH MY! thats me again!)

your responses prove nothing but futile troll mongering. THIS IS DARKMAN OUT, not feeding the troll any longer. If you have any logic based posts that can counter this one, point by point...let me know. By the way you wont, because IM RIGHT AND YOUR NOT.

Ps - im also more jacked than you not to mention probably smarter and better looking. I own your life

Lesson to spectators to take home from this post - work hard, and you will never have to worry what the guy next to you is doing. And yes i know people in my class with lower board scores that are ROCKING their interviews (for competitive specialties no less) simply because they worked hard during rotations and raised their game for step 2. They dont worry about people next to them, they worry about themselves. Who are you going to be?

[Dr. Jay]

Do people who have gone through a masters program usually do better in their medical school courses than one who starts med school right after undergrad?

[survivors]

no offense but you are an idiot. Your in saba to become a doctor not bring renegade students to justice. And your post seems to insinuate that I cheated on saba? Are you high? I just said I was a B student tops most of my time there, that would make me a horrible cheater first off and second off that wouldnt explain my board scores nor my grades in rotations nor my letters of rec.

Seriously get off your high horse and read my post to which you replied to. You dindt answer one single point I made, all you did was make irrational moral arguments with nonsensical statements about "truth" and "honor" and "decency" and something about if i knew who you were I would stop posting. It sounds to me like you are George Bush Jr the way you talk and the threats you seem to make which again make zero sense. I never debated if you were right and wrong lets get that straight. All I said was you are in med school to become a doctor and if you work hard then if everyone around you is cheating it wont matter. They wont cheat on their boards and they wont cheat on their residency applications, PURE AND SIMPLE.

And now for the cocky part of my response. Until you prove to me that
a) you are a student who has FINISHED his saba curriculum (yeah thats me)
b) has aced all his boards (yeah thats me again)
c) has golden letters of recommendation (yup, me again)
d) have made helpful posts about his experience in an attempt to help those behind him avoid the mistakes he has made (oh yeah...thats me again) rather than BIASED posts where he spouts righteousness (oh snap! thats you!)
e) is in the actual match, therefore making his point of view completely superior to yours to anyone that reads this forum who wants to do all of the above and then match (OH MY! thats me again!)

your responses prove nothing but futile troll mongering. THIS IS DARKMAN OUT, not feeding the troll any longer. If you have any logic based posts that can counter this one, point by point...let me know. By the way you wont, because IM RIGHT AND YOUR NOT.

Ps - im also more jacked than you not to mention probably smarter and better looking. I own your life

Lesson to spectators to take home from this post - work hard, and you will never have to worry what the guy next to you is doing. And yes i know people in my class with lower board scores that are ROCKING their interviews (for competitive specialties no less) simply because they worked hard during rotations and raised their game for step 2. They dont worry about people next to them, they worry about themselves. Who are you going to be?

You are extremely rude and full of yourself. To be honest I don't know how you can even argue with me when you have no idea what is going on at the school since you are a successful doctor and somehow have so much time to be on here!! The issue is that you are being rude and two that you are condoning cheating. Cheating is in and of itself a wrongful act no matter how it affects other students' scores. I do not attend the school myself and my daughter is NOT failing the course but that is besides the point. It should not be those who fail be the ones who care. YOU should care that at your school there are cheating going on and instead of condemning them you are attacking me for raising the issue which I have every right to. As if someone in the US says that leave the terrorists alone because they are not killing you nor does it affect your life in America BUT their acts are wrong and we should fight that!! DO YOU NOT AGREE?

It is very simple the professors and the students all agree that cheating took place and they have acted to change the exams thereafter which is an appropriate immediate response and I command them for doing so but the cheating that took place must be tackled and dealt with accordingly.

Attacking me will satisfy you but won't change a thing at the school that you so rightfully care about but are on the wrong side. I did not accuse you of cheating because you are not here as you say. But since you are in the hospital and might be after a position that someone else took because they cheated I would then want to see your reaction and not only your reaction but to see how those who care about you react.

I will not be arguing with you because quite frankly you make no sense and all you seem to be doing is to have the NEED to tell everyone how smart and bright and full of work you are but then you are on this site all the time.

I congratulate you for your successful position that you managed to secure on ValueMD.

[awelchnp]

You are extremely rude and full of yourself. To be honest I don't know how you can even argue with me when you have no idea what is going on at the school since you are a successful doctor and somehow have so much time to be on here!! The issue is that you are being rude and two that you are condoning cheating. Cheating is in and of itself a wrongful act no matter how it affects other students' scores. I do not attend the school myself and my daughter is NOT failing the course but that is besides the point. It should not be those who fail be the ones who care. YOU should care that at your school there are cheating going on and instead of condemning them you are attacking me for raising the issue which I have every right to. As if someone in the US says that leave the terrorists alone because they are not killing you nor does it affect your life in America BUT their acts are wrong and we should fight that!! DO YOU NOT AGREE?

It is very simple the professors and the students all agree that cheating took place and they have acted to change the exams thereafter which is an appropriate immediate response and I command them for doing so but the cheating that took place must be tackled and dealt with accordingly.

Attacking me will satisfy you but won't change a thing at the school that you so rightfully care about but are on the wrong side. I did not accuse you of cheating because you are not here as you say. But since you are in the hospital and might be after a position that someone else took because they cheated I would then want to see your reaction and not only your reaction but to see how those who care about you react.

I will not be arguing with you because quite frankly you make no sense and all you seem to be doing is to have the NEED to tell everyone how smart and bright and full of work you are but then you are on this site all the time.

I congratulate you for your successful position that you managed to secure on ValueMD.


Survivors has officially spoken up and removed all DOUBT........................ nuf said

[sgMD]

I really don't want to get involved in this argument here, but as a saba student who will be starting this January, I would highly appreciate it if you could keep all this mess within the school and not here on a public forum. Talk to the dean or the profs if you're really concerned!

what you are doing will harm your daughter and US too because the reputation of the school is more important than getting an A or a B on a test. People can't cheat on the board exams and that's what seems to be most important. Cheaters can't get good scores despite the fact that they had A's in med school, but those who didn't cheat and got B's, like Saad, will do good on the USMLEs.... so why you worrying so much about this whole cheating thing?

Cheating happens in every school and every program. I attended the best university in Canada (10th in north amerca) and yeah, I did see with my own eyes how some students would cheat on the final exams. This does not mean that the best university in canada is crap!!!!!!!!!! and as you said, the admins and profs have plans to deal with this whole cheating thing and they will get everything under control... so really no point for you to attack the reputation of the school like this here in the public...


Please do us a favor and keep your thoughts for yourself, or else we all have to deal with yet another ego that saba students cheat! whatever happened to this organ called the brain?

[atropine]

attacking me for raising the issue which I have every right to.

No, everybody attacked you for attacking the school, which is not the issue here. Everybody's on your side about cheating being wrong, all right?


and I command them for doing so but the cheating that took place must be tackled and dealt with accordingly.

OK, we're all ears with your suggestions for how you're going to find these students who cheated. Until then, get off ValueMD and stop fighting pointless battles for your kid. We all know who she is, too, and you're not giving her a good name to have her mom come and whine about her problems on the Internet.


But since you are in the hospital and might be after a position that someone else took because they cheated I would then want to see your reaction and not only your reaction but to see how those who care about you react.

This is my last post, so read what has already been mentioned very, very, very, carefully. Maybe it will sink in your head this time: Nobody can cheat on the boards, and competition for residency positions will be based off those, as well as your letters of recommendation. Read that sentence a few times, because it's been told to you at least 5 times now. Got it?

I think this thread can be closed now.

[darkmansaad]

hey i liked that part where he compared "cheating" on saba to terrorism and how we should fight it in all its forms. That was a great argument

[survivors]

It simply amazes me how angry some of you get which makes me ponder!

It must bother you however that some of your own classmates are failing directly because of such pathetic cheating and no one is man or woman enough to say anything about it.

Maybe it is my parental feelings that made me upset enough to care but it is shameful that you come online and insult me and threaten me about knowing who my daughter is so that you can simply get by and worry about the boards later.

This just shows to me and proves to me and whoever else reading these posts what amazing students are being trained to be doctors at Saba and I truly regret that! Even though you are only a few and do not represent saba that is for sure. But it is sad that you think your actions only matter in the context of what affects you and only you.

The school is not being attacked by me and I'm NOT trying to make the school look bad. I am raising a conversation to see what people think who are dealing with the situation over there on campus. And so far there are 3 students that appear so ever frightened that all I have received is insults and anger towards me even saying anything about it as if it is my fault to have people cheat over there.

Simply amazing.

[survivors]

hey i liked that part where he compared "cheating" on saba to terrorism and how we should fight it in all its forms. That was a great argument

For an amazing scholar like you I am afraid you have completely misdiagnosed this one! Read it carefully and perhaps you can realize that you literally made up words to fit your empty argument.

I said the act of cheating is like the act of terrorism they are both wrong in and of themselves regardless of the effect of its outcome and if you disagree with that then simply say I disagree no need for smart comments.

[survivors]

I will no longer be posting on here. I believe this conversation that I was hoping to have with some reasonable students is getting into a preschool drama and arguments with 3 students.

Have a wonderful life and a great future ahead and hopefully you will one day realize that your decision affects more than just you.

Bye

[MissCrabette]

Did it ever occur to you that curving an exam is at the professor's discretion and not a student's God given right? Yes, those who cheated got higher grades, but those who failed did so because they obviously didn't know the material well enough. Nobody is failing because of the cheaters. As many people have told you before, focus on yourself and forget what the others are doing. They are not hurting you (or your daughter).

You say that you are NOT trying to make the school look bad, yet I'm pretty sure you said you would consider bringing this up to the attention of the school's affiliated hospitals and accreditation organizations. How is that NOT making the school look bad?

You still didn't answer the one question that has been asked over and over again. How do you propose they find the cheaters? I'm really curious. The school clearly came out and admitted that there was a problem. What more could they possibly do? How do the school's actions qualify as condoning cheating?

[TEXAG]

http://i.pbase.com/v3/82/429782/1/45214471.lock.gif

[amyames]

This is certainly not the way to help your daughter. Sure, you got the word out that there was cheating, but what have you accomplished other than that?

You wanted to call the school's clinical affiliations? How in the heck do you think that would even remotely help your daughter? Just for the problem of the moment (which will pass, and even if your daughter has to repeat so be it), you would ruin your daughter's and the rest of the student's medical careers? I cannot even believe you would think of doing that.

Couple of semesters ago there was a big to do about the 5th semester exit exam where the school started using the NBME, however, at that time they used the NBME forms you could do for a fee....so lots of kids did the exams before hand and scored really well and other students tried to study on their own and got punished because they didn't make the cut off score. but you know what? yes, there were a lot of hurt feelings and resentment towards the administration and the kids who had "cheated", but in the end...the kids that had to go back sucked it up, took the comp again...and most of these kids ended doing really well on the step 1 exam and are successfully in clinicals. in short, they took a crappy situation, made the best out of the situation and came out stronger for it.

so, you should be telling your daughter to focus on herself....get back to the books, worry less about everyone else...like everyone says....it's all about step 1....so focus on the most important goal right now and stop trying to stir up trouble that will ruin all the student's lives.

[sgMD]

It must bother you however that some of your own classmates are failing directly because of such pathetic cheating and no one is man or woman enough to say anything about it.


it happens in every school and every program... I've personally dealt with worse than this: I had an A- grade in one of my courses and the prof would not give it to me (and he didnt bell curve down the marks!)... that happened at UofT (#1 canadian school)...



Please let this thread die...

[rokshana]

You are extremely rude and full of yourself. To be honest I don't know how you can even argue with me when you have no idea what is going on at the school since you are a successful doctor and somehow have so much time to be on here!! The issue is that you are being rude and two that you are condoning cheating. Cheating is in and of itself a wrongful act no matter how it affects other students' scores. I do not attend the school myself and my daughter is NOT failing the course but that is besides the point. It should not be those who fail be the ones who care. YOU should care that at your school there are cheating going on and instead of condemning them you are attacking me for raising the issue which I have every right to. As if someone in the US says that leave the terrorists alone because they are not killing you nor does it affect your life in America BUT their acts are wrong and we should fight that!! DO YOU NOT AGREE?

It is very simple the professors and the students all agree that cheating took place and they have acted to change the exams thereafter which is an appropriate immediate response and I command them for doing so but the cheating that took place must be tackled and dealt with accordingly.

Attacking me will satisfy you but won't change a thing at the school that you so rightfully care about but are on the wrong side. I did not accuse you of cheating because you are not here as you say. But since you are in the hospital and might be after a position that someone else took because they cheated I would then want to see your reaction and not only your reaction but to see how those who care about you react.

I will not be arguing with you because quite frankly you make no sense and all you seem to be doing is to have the NEED to tell everyone how smart and bright and full of work you are but then you are on this site all the time.

I congratulate you for your successful position that you managed to secure on ValueMD.


i think you need to take a minute, breathe, and settle down....you are new to this forum, yet you come out swing about cheating at a school that you currently are not at....and the only imput you are getting is from your child....and frankly, it easily could be a defense mechanism to rationalize you daughter's low grade and maybe not wanting to admit to you that she is not doing well...

you should go back and read some of darkman's posts...thoughout the years he has proven himself helpful too many herer...are his posts a bit cocky? yeah...and sometimes i think it is partially tongue in check, but really? he walks the walk...he has been sucessfull in not only in classes at saba (which as in other med schools is not really that stressed come resident application time), but has proven that he learned what he needed to to do incrediably well on the steps and now is getting interviews in a competitive speciality...so whatever or however he portrays himself on this forum, he has earned the right to do so...

you daughter would be best serve to follow his lead...nose to the grind stone, work hard, study hard, head down, make it off island, rock the steps, work hard and shine in clinicals and you will be rewarded with great step scores and interview invites...and get a good residency spot...whining and crying about people doing better than you because they cheated isn't going to get you far...and being a medicore student in this day and age that feels that they are entitled is a receipe for failure.

and be grateful for the clinical students, interns, residents, and attendings, because frankly, if we didn't take the time out to give information and advice, vmd would not be a useful forum.

[B_W_]

:thumbsup:i think you need to take a minute, breathe, and settle down....you are new to this forum, yet you come out swing about cheating at a school that you currently are not at....and the only imput you are getting is from your child....and frankly, it easily could be a defense mechanism to rationalize you daughter's low grade and maybe not wanting to admit to you that she is not doing well...

you should go back and read some of darkman's posts...thoughout the years he has proven himself helpful too many herer...are his posts a bit cocky? yeah...and sometimes i think it is partially tongue in check, but really? he walks the walk...he has been sucessfull in not only in classes at saba (which as in other med schools is not really that stressed come resident application time), but has proven that he learned what he needed to to do incrediably well on the steps and now is getting interviews in a competitive speciality...so whatever or however he portrays himself on this forum, he has earned the right to do so...

you daughter would be best serve to follow his lead...nose to the grind stone, work hard, study hard, head down, make it off island, rock the steps, work hard and shine in clinicals and you will be rewarded with great step scores and interview invites...and get a good residency spot...whining and crying about people doing better than you because they cheated isn't going to get you far...and being a medicore student in this day and age that feels that they are entitled is a receipe for failure.

and be grateful for the clinical students, interns, residents, and attendings, because frankly, if we didn't take the time out to give information and advice, vmd would not be a useful forum.

+1 :thumbsup:
Suck it up buttercup; life's tough

[raptors]

:rolleyes:

I haven't read the whole thread, but the few posts I have read..talk about over reacting. I don't have time for this, I should be studying. PM me if there are any concerns because there really shouldn't be.

Stop spreading rumours please.

[mario345]

i dont know about your daughters account of cheating on saba...but there was DEFINITE cheating for the 2008 august shelf exam in which people who were failing their classes scored 770s on nbmes with 2 weeks of allotted usmle studying time...
anyhow, it wasnt really "cheating", it was a good move on their part to do all the NBME qns...and a dumb move on behalf of the people who did NOT look at the resources provided to them. it was also very unfair for many students to return to the island and take the exams. some fault did lie with the admin for NOT nullifying that exam...but still, it blew over.

the point is, these things tend to happen once in a while, and no one in their right mind approves of cheating - but its not the end of the world. its not as tragic as you are making iy out to be. if you are affected by it, then you should study harder instead of giving reasons why you failed, or why others succeeded because they might have cheated.

quite frankly, its quite impossible for anyone to cheat on SABA. the testing conditions are such that you cannot even talk or discuss anything. everything is on computers. and there isnt any time to bring in written notes or cheat sheets and use that during an exam. p.s. the consequences of cheating is so dire that no one in their right mind would try. if someone does dare to cheat even after all that, then they are doomed to get caught.
and please do not humiliate the professors on saba by calling them sell outs.

2 years down the road, you will be responsible for taking care of the sick, and it will be a matter of life and death with real life consequences, and it would be quite a shame if you are thinking "oh damn, i dont know this topic,diseases,management because either: a) i failed b) i cheated" well, thats unacceptable.

medical school is not so much that you memorize every single factoid, because by the time you graduate, many things will change. to me, medicine is ALL about character, vigilance, and decency - and i dont see either you, or your daughter displaying that here.

[JLea]

i dont know about your daughters account of cheating on saba...but there was DEFINITE cheating for the 2008 august shelf exam in which people who were failing their classes scored 770s on nbmes with 2 weeks of allotted usmle studying time...
anyhow, it wasnt really "cheating", it was a good move on their part to do all the NBME qns...and a dumb move on behalf of the people who did NOT look at the resources provided to them. it was also very unfair for many students to return to the island and take the exams. some fault did lie with the admin for NOT nullifying that exam...but still, it blew over.

the point is, these things tend to happen once in a while, and no one in their right mind approves of cheating - but its not the end of the world. its not as tragic as you are making iy out to be. if you are affected by it, then you should study harder instead of giving reasons why you failed, or why others succeeded because they might have cheated.

quite frankly, its quite impossible for anyone to cheat on SABA. the testing conditions are such that you cannot even talk or discuss anything. everything is on computers. and there isnt any time to bring in written notes or cheat sheets and use that during an exam. p.s. the consequences of cheating is so dire that no one in their right mind would try. if someone does dare to cheat even after all that, then they are doomed to get caught.
and please do not humiliate the professors on saba by calling them sell outs.

2 years down the road, you will be responsible for taking care of the sick, and it will be a matter of life and death with real life consequences, and it would be quite a shame if you are thinking "oh damn, i dont know this topic,diseases,management because either: a) i failed b) i cheated" well, thats unacceptable.

medical school is not so much that you memorize every single factoid, because by the time you graduate, many things will change. to me, medicine is ALL about character, vigilance, and decency - and i dont see either you, or your daughter displaying that here.

To quote oh so many Rush Limbaugh fans, "ditto!"

Work your butt off and learn what you need to learn. Worry not about the others in your class.

[darkmansaad]

i love this thread, first a terrorism analogy.

and now JLea has thrown in the Rush Limbaugh reference.....haha props man! All we need are some Obama healthcare references and this thread will be COMPLETELY off course!

but seriously JLea thanks, i laughed hard at that, nice work.

[atropine]

LOL this was my favourite line of the thread.


The school is not being attacked by me and I'm NOT trying to make the school look bad.


Meanwhile, the title of his/her thread was "Saba condones cheating!!!!!!!!!!!!."
Oh, and I noticed they also removed their comments about calling up hospitals and Holland to complain about Saba. :)

Who wants to make a bet as to how many Axis I and II disorders this person has? Anyway, back to studying. Good thread.

[wolfvgang22]

And with that, as a mod I'm calling this thread done.
It's a perennial topic, and I think both sides have expressed their views pretty comprehensively. Also, there is flaming going on which is against terms of service, and there is already another thread along the same lines going, anyway.

Have a great day,
~W