6years?

[Ihealpeople]

Hello, and thank you for taking the time to read my question.

Why is it that the 2nd Faculty of Medicine at Charles University requires six years to complete rather then the usual four one would expect from a U.S. or Caribbean school?

[Eternalstudent]

It's meant for people straight out of high school with no pre med requirements or undergrad education

[shrey]

And it's not just the 2nd faculty of Charles. It's pretty much most of the medical schools in European countries, with the exception of the UK (which has 5 year and 6 years programs) and Scandinavian ones (which are usually 5 1/2 years in duration). In some countries, medical school is 7 years in duration (as with the case of the German schools).

[Ihealpeople]

Thank you both for your replies.

I still find it hard to believe, mostly because I cannot phatom it. Why on earth would they have a six year program and then offer on top of that a "premed" program that lasts for an additional five months? lol

I dont expect or think I want an answer to that question, but thanks anyways to both of you again for your timely replies.

As this is my first and now second post, I'd like to add that these are great forums and I cant help but mull around in them endlessly. Thank you very much to the Admins and everyone else that keeps these forums running.

[shrey]

Ihealpeople, you asked a good question and a few others asked the same thing previously on this forum so I'm sorry because I will answer that question ;)

The simple answer is that "it's a waste of time". Actually that's partially incorrect. As these medical schools are mainly meant for student right out of high schools, the premed programs sort of prepare them for the entrance exam. This is specially targeted towards students from other countries (like the US), where their secondary education (high school) is not equivalent to the European secondary school system, so they basically are aiming to help students catch up with all that stuff they didn't learn back when they were in high school and also to prepare them for the entrance.

The way the medical school system works: 6 years in duration; 3 years (years 1-3) devoted to preclinical sciences (like anatomy, biophysics, histology, embryology, biochemistry, pathology, physiology, pathobiochem, pathophysiology, cell biology, biology and genetics, microbiology, pharmacology, immunology etc.) and the next 3 years (years 4-6) are devoted to the clinical subjects (internal medicine, surgery, psychiatry and so on).

Personally, I couldn't stand the idea of studying for 6 loooong years but now that I've become accustomed to it, I actually feel that the system is really good (because you end up studying every subject in such detail that you get a good, strong grip of the subject).

[Eternalstudent]

On the other hand the pre-med program is expensive and takes 5 months. If you have half decent sudy habits (necesssary anyway for success in medical school) you can teach yourself the basic concepts of biology physics and chemistry alot faster than 5 months. With no prior knowledge I would estimate 2-3 weeks per subject up to a month at worst. All this assuming 6-8 hours a day with a good review book. On top of that they do teach you chemistry biology and physics anyway so you don't need to know everything anyway because you will repeat that information in the first year. Just my 2 cents here but in conclusion I wouldn't waste my money on a pre-med program, because it's simply overkill.

[shrey]

Eternalstudent, I couldnt agree with you more. The pre-med program is truly a waste o money (the only advantage they get is that, they get accepted into the University without a doubt). But it's true that all these basic science subjects are self-teachable and shouldn't be a problem if you're using good books.

Good luck!

[Sharkey]

Friend of mine has a degree in biochemistry from a UK university and he was accepted straight into third year of one of the faculties of charles medical school. my cousin also had a degree and was accepted as well into the third year but this was for polish medical school. so anything is possible

[Eternalstudent]

I'm glad I won't be that dudes patient then. IMHO the pre clinical courses (Anatomy, Physiology, Biochemistry) at the undergrad level are taught well below the level of knowledge need by an M.D. At my undergrad institution the physiology was passable, but the Anatomy was very superficial compared to the medical resources I used in addition to the lecture notes and the textbook provided in the syllabus.

The Biochemistry would have been advanced enough if I did a degree in it, but research oriented, emphasizing the latest advancements in the molecular aspects of biochemistry rather then the needed clinical perspective.

Your friend could be fine as long as he studies the material on his own time from Medical (as apposed to undergrad) textbooks but if he doesn't patient beware. I'm surprised an institution as reputed as Charles would accept that dude straight into year 3. In a graduate entry situation your friend ought to be looking for 4 year programs. Either way it takes 4 years but at least the first year is designed to get your preclinical knowledge from the undergrad to the medical level. Those programs over all are designed for people with an undergrad background in the medical sciences

[shrey]

I find that hard to believe Sharkey. I don't know which medical faculty of Charles University are you referring to (there are 5 of them) but I don't think the First Faculty WOULD do this. You can ask pretty much anyone in this faculty and they will tell you that transferring is the hardest part. The First and the Third faculties are are very very strict when it comes to transfers. They only accept transfers if the subjects and the ECTS points are similar to the system here (usually this never happens). They do however, accept lots Erasmus students studying for a year or so but not in terms of transferring permenantly.

Yes, it is possible to transfer between the faculties (With the exception of the 3rd faculty) but even that's not so easy (I've only met 3 students so far who've transferred and they said it was not easy at all because they've had to take so many classes which weren't in their curricula. This means that if you're in the 4th year, you would still need to take courses from years 1,2, and 3 which weren't in your curriculum).

I'm a student at the First Fac. and I do think that the quality of education is really good. The standards are quite high and some professors do really drive you to your limits (to the extent that you feel like giving up) but at the end you realize that they're just helping you out.

The level of the undergraduate sciences is nothing but detailed. They go into a lot of depth with almost every preclinical subject. I remember how rigorous and intense anatomy and histology were. I thought it was a waste of time to go into such depth but little did I realize that it has really helped me with Physiology.

Also as I've mentioned in some posts, getting in is the easy part. Staying in and passing every year is the tricky part. It can be a torture...which explains the high attrition rates at the First Faculty (many either fail or leave the year because they couldn't cope up, or wasted too much time, procrastinated, or just didn't study the right way.) So don't be mistaken when you hear students saying "Oh, the entrance exam was a piece of ckae"...you ask the same students how the 1st or 2nd or 3rd year was, and then the truth comes out ;)

[shrey]

I hightly doubt that. I've only met 3 students at the First Faculty of Charles who've transferred (one from UK and the other 2 from 2 other faculties of Charles University). There are 5 different medical faculties so I'm not sure which one you are referring to....but the first and the third faculties are very very strict on transfers.

The 3 studetns I've met told me that it's not easy to get transferred because they've hard to take a lot of extra courses which weren't in their curricula (which means even if you're in the 4th year...you still have to take courses from the 1st,2nd, and 3rd years which weren't in your curriculum).

Regarding the quality of education. I'm quite satisfied. They do go into such minor details especially with the preclinical subjects and this can sometimes be very very frustrating...but at the end you realize that it does help in one way or the other. I remember how intense and rigorous my anatomy class was and I thought there was no point of learning in such detail coz we would end up forgetting anyway...but it has really helped me with Physiology. You can ask anyone at the First Faculty and I'm sure a majority would point out that the preclinical subjects are very detailed, rigorous and intense and it's quite hard to keep up unless one really works hard. This also explains the reason why the First Faculty has the highest drop-out and attrition rate. Tons of people do fail or leave every year either because they couldn't cope up with the rigor or just didn't study right. So I'm wondering which faculty did your friend get into?

Also getting into the Faculty is easy...and that's not at all the big part. Staying in and passing every year is the hard part. It can actually be a torture because they have so many rules and regulations and different types of tests (Class tests, credit tests, final exams etc.)

[LF1Student]

Friend of mine has a degree in biochemistry from a UK university and he was accepted straight into third year of one of the faculties of charles medical school. my cousin also had a degree and was accepted as well into the third year but this was for polish medical school. so anything is possible

This is 100% not true. If he studied biochemistry he would be exempted from a few of the classes (biochemistry and medical chemistry) but he would not have been able to go into 3rd year.

The only students that where allowed to go into 4th year were 3 that came from that collage in Luton because they school was not aware of the reputation of the university.

[HaematoxylinEosin]

Eternalstudent, I couldnt agree with you more. The pre-med program is truly a waste o money (the only advantage they get is that, they get accepted into the University without a doubt). But it's true that all these basic science subjects are self-teachable and shouldn't be a problem if you're using good books.

Good luck!

Exactly, I totally regret I went to the premed course. If you are not able to study the stuff for the entrance exam by yourself, stay away from medschool.
Besides, I know shrey is an expert, everything I read was 100% according to what I have experienced, but you just don`t have a free entrance just because you went to the premed course.
That`s what all of us heard and believed. When the day came though some students failed. Two (1US, 1Swedish) just missed one or two little points and no matter how much I tried to talk for them and asked for an exception, Doc. Samcova (I think very highly of her though) was as cold as ice and there was no way for them to be admitted. I was so sorry for them, they spent all this time & money for absolutely nothing.
One of them passed an entrance exam at the first faculty later and is happy there today, but don`t believe that because of the premedcourse 'you will get accepted without a doubt'. Not at the 3LF.

[shrey]

Oh I see. I guess they're making admission harder and harder as the years go on. I haven't heard of students failing after having taken the premed course but I wouldn't be surprised now as the faculty is gaining a lot of reputation (especially after the recent rankings and stuff).

[HaematoxylinEosin]

Oh I see. I guess they're making admission harder and harder as the years go on. I haven't heard of students failing after having taken the premed course but I wouldn't be surprised now as the faculty is gaining a lot of reputation (especially after the recent rankings and stuff).

that's what I believe. It really seemed like they did that only to show us how difficult it was going to be there & even repeated over and over again: ''This is Charles University''!!! :lol:
It worked though, made a big impression on me - but the Czechs seem to look at Charles like it was the best University in the world...it's not bad & it's certainly not easy @ all - but they should see it a little bit more realistic. ;)

[shrey]

AHAHAHAHAHA true. I just met a lady the other day who asked me if I went to Charles and I said yes and she was like "oh wow, it's so hard, it's so reputed, it's such a tough degree and very much up there" and here I was, pondering if this lady knew any other medical universities out there or any country other than the Czech Republic for that matter.

So going by her reply, I should be very very thankful for studying here 'cause IT'S CHARLES UNIVERSITY! THE BEST (in a post-communist and in it's price range as an upperclassman of mine points out lol.)

[HaematoxylinEosin]

I believe it's also the very oldest University in Europe, isn't it?
But oldest doesn't mean best, which doesn't mean that it's not again. Just like it doesn't mean that students from a great University are great doctors and vice versa.
However: You get excellent education, studies are veeeeery hard as already stated. And all in all they provide you with everything you have to know in order to be a fantastic doc.

[shrey]

True that. I would have definitely transferred to some other school otherwise. If you don't mind me asking, are you currently studying medicine too?

[HaematoxylinEosin]

True that. I would have definitely transferred to some other school otherwise. If you don't mind me asking, are you currently studying medicine too?

don't mind at all.
I'm just scared to go in such great depth. I know, it's nothing compared to what U.S. students have to go through, but here in Europe it's not that common. (Can't imagine to fail and then having to pay so much money back). I went to the premedcourse at 3lf and then was allowed to visit a few months with the Czech students (for free). Sometimes with the English speaking as well. I decided to earn the money first and then go back as they offered me to come back whenever I want (which is really nice). But now i figured out (thanks to this forum) there are other, less expensive medschools. So I'm gonna go there this year if everything works out.
However, I don't expect to find a better University than Charles in Eastern Europe (Central, excuse me). I think of it very highly. But since I'm not too excited about the city, nor the people - I'm ok with getting to know another one & other people. And I hope the University will be somewhat alike....

[shrey]

Well have you also looked into the Polish schools? I do know that Poznan and Jagiellonian have a very good reputation and they also have tons of American universities tied up with them for rotations/electives and such. They're also CA accredited but I think they might be slightly more expensive.

6 years is long so it's good you're taking out the time to do your research (else you might get frustrated too quickly and feel like leaving the program in between).

Good luck with everything!

[HaematoxylinEosin]

Well have you also looked into the Polish schools? I do know that Poznan and Jagiellonian have a very good reputation and they also have tons of American universities tied up with them for rotations/electives and such. They're also CA accredited but I think they might be slightly more expensive.

6 years is long so it's good you're taking out the time to do your research (else you might get frustrated too quickly and feel like leaving the program in between).

Good luck with everything!

really appreciate your advice, thanks a lot. I've never been interested in Polish Schools. But I started to look at some after I read you post.
It's not so bad with the tuition. My parents would love to help me, but I don't want them to carry such a financial burden, especially now that I know that Romanian & Bulgarian schools are so much cheaper. Some stuff sounded really good, but I also read (especially about Hungary) how corrupt those schools were. What I read has shocked me. I'm actually scared now. I don't need the best medical school, but I want to be a good, well educated doctor, whom patients can trust & who knows what’s best for them. With a primitive education (please, I don’t know if that really is the case!!!) I wouldn’t be much of a help, rather dangerous :rolleyes:

How important is the name of the school if you want to work internationally, do you know? I’m German, residency here shouldn’t be a problem after graduating from a EU-university.
But after that, I’d love to work for ‘doctors without borders’ in Africa or other poor areas of the world. What should I do for that? Have you heard about Malta? I’m desperately trying to get some information, especially about the tuition. Their website won’t tell me :noidea: and here it’s hard to find anything about it….but it’s in the EU so that would be a big advantage for me.
Anyways, I’m starting to realize how outstanding Charles seems to be among Central & Eastern EU-schools. Looked up their ranking. And I guess the name IS more important than I thought it was…or I’m just mislead again by some posts.

Yeah, I want to make the right decision, don’t want to regret anything, making mistakes is not too wrong when you learn from them, but some things are better to be prevented and sometimes it’s too late to learn…
It’s good you’re happy with the way you chose. I’m pretty sure you’ll do great. Read ALL your posts last week, seems like you know what you’re doing. And it’s very nice you’re helping people with your knowledge and experience. Thank you.

[shrey]

You're most certainly welcome. I just help people out 'cause I've received a lot of help before I chose Charles and I'm grateful to those who've been there for me and who guided me or rather helped me make a more clear decision. So I guess it wouldn't hurt to give others advice about a thing or two right? :)

Regarding Malta, it's an awesome school as they have tons of contacts with the UK medical schools and a few US ones too (I heard that one of the Malta graduates is currently doing his residency in Mayo clinic which is rather outstanding). However, it is quite expensive (around the $30,000 range --the last I checked, it was around $28,000 for non-EU citizens; but since you're an EU citizen, I think it would be a lot lot cheaper. Perhaps contacting them would be the best idea to get first hand info.) It's a 5 year program and they have a set of requirements (depending on whether the student did an Arbitur or a French or a European Baccalaureate).

Secondly, you can also consider the British/Irish medical schools as they're rather cheap for EU citizens (around 1,500-2,000 pounds as opposed to the 25,000 pounds they charge for non-EU citizens). They are competitive, and you do have to take an entrance exam, but they do certainly have tons of contacts with South African, Australian and New Zealand schools In fact, once you graduate and specialize in the UK, you can go to Australia/NZ without any entrance exam (AMC exemption) and can directly start working (as a locum).

The other option as you say is going to a school in the EU. Regarding schools in EU, I don't think ranking matters all that much, especially for the English programs. As long as the university offers a solid program and is CA accredited (if you have any future interest of working in the US), then it ought to be a good school. I do know a few off the top of my head. Poland has Poznan and Jagiellonian (and one other school). Hungary has Semmelweis and Debrecen. Croatia has Zagreb. CR has Charles First Faculty of Medicine and I'm pretty sure Romania has 1 school too.

Romania also has some nice medical schools. One of the schools that comes to my mind is the Cluj Naopoca University (which I think is also CA accredited) which is simply considered the Charles University of Romania or the Jagiellonian of Poland. It's quite competitive (I think they have an intake of only 24-30 students per year) and they do have a distinguished faculty. They also offer medicine in Romanian and French (which is why a lot of the French medical students from France are flocking to this university. I saw this on youtube. You can check it out: YouTube- Europe's medical students flock to Romania)

Sure I've heard of several people commenting about the credibility of Romanian and Bulgarian schools (that they can bribe and pass) but I think they say this is out of sheer ignorance. The ones who probably say this are either unsatisfied with the life there or aren't doing well or are perhaps lazy and have nothing else to do other than critique the university. Do check out Cluj Naopoca if you're considering Romania. There are other univs. like Oradea and Iasi (I have a friend studying in Iasi) but I don't know how they compare to Cluj. If you're thinking of Bulgaria, I'm no expert (I'll leave that to devildoc) but I've heard that Sofia and Pleven are rather good.

Croatia might be another option. Zagreb university offers 6 as well as 4 year programs that are CA accredited so I'm pretty sure it's a good school ('cause getting an CA accreditation is no piece of cake!)

Then there's Latvia and Lithuania. I have no clue about them except that Riga Standins University in Latvia and Kaunas Uni. in Lithuania are supposed to be the best (but I don't think they accredited) and they do offer English programs.

So I guess the options are endless. All of these programs will ultimately give you a solid foundation in my opinion (as long as you do your part by working hard and staying on top of the game). Once you're done, you can then chose where you want to practice. And if you're interested in travelling a lot, then perhaps working for the WHO or a doing some sort of temporary volunteer work can get you started (as you'll get to travel around quite a bit, based on which you can later decide where you want to work.)

[HaematoxylinEosin]

You're most certainly welcome. I just help people out 'cause I've received a lot of help before I chose Charles and I'm grateful to those who've been there for me and who guided me or rather helped me make a more clear decision. So I guess it wouldn't hurt to give others advice about a thing or two right? :)

Regarding Malta, it's an awesome school as they have tons of contacts with the UK medical schools and a few US ones too (I heard that one of the Malta graduates is currently doing his residency in Mayo clinic which is rather outstanding). However, it is quite expensive (around the $30,000 range --the last I checked, it was around $28,000 for non-EU citizens; but since you're an EU citizen, I think it would be a lot lot cheaper. Perhaps contacting them would be the best idea to get first hand info.) It's a 5 year program and they have a set of requirements (depending on whether the student did an Arbitur or a French or a European Baccalaureate).

Secondly, you can also consider the British/Irish medical schools as they're rather cheap for EU citizens (around 1,500-2,000 pounds as opposed to the 25,000 pounds they charge for non-EU citizens). They are competitive, and you do have to take an entrance exam, but they do certainly have tons of contacts with South African, Australian and New Zealand schools In fact, once you graduate and specialize in the UK, you can go to Australia/NZ without any entrance exam (AMC exemption) and can directly start working (as a locum).

The other option as you say is going to a school in the EU. Regarding schools in EU, I don't think ranking matters all that much, especially for the English programs. As long as the university offers a solid program and is CA accredited (if you have any future interest of working in the US), then it ought to be a good school. I do know a few off the top of my head. Poland has Poznan and Jagiellonian (and one other school). Hungary has Semmelweis and Debrecen. Croatia has Zagreb. CR has Charles First Faculty of Medicine and I'm pretty sure Romania has 1 school too.

Romania also has some nice medical schools. One of the schools that comes to my mind is the Cluj Naopoca University (which I think is also CA accredited) which is simply considered the Charles University of Romania or the Jagiellonian of Poland. It's quite competitive (I think they have an intake of only 24-30 students per year) and they do have a distinguished faculty. They also offer medicine in Romanian and French (which is why a lot of the French medical students from France are flocking to this university. I saw this on youtube. You can check it out: YouTube- Europe's medical students flock to Romania (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X_INbu1MKdM))

Sure I've heard of several people commenting about the credibility of Romanian and Bulgarian schools (that they can bribe and pass) but I think they say this is out of sheer ignorance. The ones who probably say this are either unsatisfied with the life there or aren't doing well or are perhaps lazy and have nothing else to do other than critique the university. Do check out Cluj Naopoca if you're considering Romania. There are other univs. like Oradea and Iasi (I have a friend studying in Iasi) but I don't know how they compare to Cluj. If you're thinking of Bulgaria, I'm no expert (I'll leave that to devildoc) but I've heard that Sofia and Pleven are rather good.

Croatia might be another option. Zagreb university offers 6 as well as 4 year programs that are CA accredited so I'm pretty sure it's a good school ('cause getting an CA accreditation is no piece of cake!)

Then there's Latvia and Lithuania. I have no clue about them except that Riga Standins University in Latvia and Kaunas Uni. in Lithuania are supposed to be the best (but I don't think they accredited) and they do offer English programs.

So I guess the options are endless. All of these programs will ultimately give you a solid foundation in my opinion (as long as you do your part by working hard and staying on top of the game). Once you're done, you can then chose where you want to practice. And if you're interested in travelling a lot, then perhaps working for the WHO or a doing some sort of temporary volunteer work can get you started (as you'll get to travel around quite a bit, based on which you can later decide where you want to work.)

So I checked on all your advices & wanted to let you know how much I appreciate your help.
I guess I like Romania the most & Oradea makes a pretty good impression on me. The vid was great - just wish I hadn't read the comments on youtube underneath it. :hail:
I really need to learn about all the international rules - how to do this & that. Seems to me like here in Germany we have no idea about international regulations...
But just one more question (it might be stupid): If I finish studies successfully in Romania & also residency in a Western European country, can work anywhere world?
I know it's not that easy right after University to get into residency somewhere else, but if you're done with that & a 'real' doc, you should be able to practice anywhere, shouldn't you?
Or do you have to have special tests (exams) for that as well?
The WHO-work is a great idea, I already did some volunteer work & I'm going to continue, next time with more knowledge on how to help hopefully....
thanks a lot shrey!

[shrey]

Oh, that's really cool (I meant volunteering in the WHO and all). And you're welcome :)

Unfortunately, the medical profession is a such a highly regulated profession. So you would still need to take exams to work in another country (like the USMLEs for the US or the Canadian licensing exam for Canada etc.) Really sucks 'cause it just makes things hard but I guess it's fair 'cause it involves people and any country wouldn't like to take any risk in registering their doctors if you know what I mean.

But the exception is for the British medical schools. They directly get to work in Australia and New Zealand if they choose to (as a locum). They don't really need to take the AMC exam.

Good luck with everything! and do keep us updated how things are working out in Oradea! (if that's where you're planning to go). I've heard that Oradea is a rather diverse medical university (which is nice!)

[devildoc8404]

FYI, at last check Zagreb (English) does not yet have California accreditation. Good program, though, and a nice city. I would live in Croatia in a heartbeat, and the director of the English program there is terrific.

Also, NO. If you complete residency in a Western European country you cannot work in the US. You would need to be accepted to and complete that residency again, in the US, in order to be able to practice there. It isn't fair, but I guess it does maintain a modicum of quality control.

Shrey, that is great about UK+Australia+NZ, if you can get a UK residency!

[shrey]

Unfortunately, I'm pretty sure I can't land a UK residency. They have such a messed up system. They've made it uber-hard to get into the FY program as they already have enough of graduates graduating from their schools. Secondly, I heard that it's pretty hard even for EU citizens to get into a residency if they haven't attended a British medical school.

Oh, that's really sad. I thought the 4 year program was CA accredited. I'm sure they can get it if they try. Btw if you don't mind me asking, is the English medical program in Bulgaria similar to that of the Bulgarian one? I ask because I was thinking that you should try and apply for CA accreditation for your university. They usually accept but the primary requirement is that the English program should be similar to the program in the native language. It is a sort of time-consuming, but I think there's a good chance that it may be CA accredited (in fact the only reason our faculty got the accreditation was 'cause of a Charles grad who applied for it a long time back.) Just something to consider.

[HaematoxylinEosin]

so actually it's the best thing to get into a UK residency, just to have the most options?
Then you could work in AU/NZ and anywhere in the EU.
I read that first come UK students from UK schools, then UK students from EU schools, then EU students from EU schools and then other international students from EU schools. Don't know about U.S. at all :(.
I know it's hard to get in there. The UK were so clever to build up a functional ********systm that provides them with enough doctors....which is not too good for us ;).

But what about Malta. I read that their system & recognition is very similar to UK schools. So do you know by any chance, if residency there allows you to work in AU/NZ?
However, I was not thinking about US/AU/NZ but rather African countries, Latin-American etc....3rd world countries all in all.
Working for the WHO for example, or other international institutions, where would you recommend to do your residency? The Sates?
That's almost harder to get in there for a non-american than for a EU-to get into UK res., isn't it?
I know I can't claim to have anything accomplished yet & thinking years ahead may seem ridiculous - but just want to make the right choices now - which would even help to decide which Uni to pick :rolleyes:.
Yeah, so far Oradea seems perfect for me (and yes, I'll keep you updated as well as I'm going to help other potential students as soon as I'll have the knowledge just as you two and some others do). But Devildoc's post made me read the entire Zagrebthread. I must say I'm a little impressed.
Checked on Croatia's possibilities to become an EU-country & it seems to be pretty soon.
So if I shouldn't be admitted to Oradea, I'd go there. Applying just in case.
But I also applied here in Germany, just because being a rather optimistic person - however, it's not really possible to be admitted :rolleyes:...in my case.

Also, I like the idea of studying in English, it's so much more international.

I was a little shocked when I read today that msucby wrote you'd need special exams after grad from a Polish University in order to get into residency in Germany... I thought it would be okay just to finish in a EU-country! I need to check on that. On the other side they actually would have to take ANYBODY. It's not easy at all to get into medshool here. You have to prepare already in High School, (that was my huge mistake & that's why I'm so careful with everything now) & the drop out rate in the first to years is around 40% I heard, in Frankfurt even 50% and that's for sure. After that people stay - or leave, but for non-academic reasons. Seems more relaxed however. I guess similar to France were the 1st year seems to be even harder to 'survive'.
Anyways, thanks to that - there is a signifant lack of residents and doctors in general here, so bad it's on the news quite frequently.
Getting into residency here after grad wouldn't be the thing (I hope) - they are desperately trying to find residents, but how much does it help me to practice in non-Eu countries....? I don't expect anybody to know that, but maybe you have an idea...anyways, thanks for the info guys, appreciate it. :peace:

[shrey]

Nope, Aus/NZ unfortunately only have this special deal with UK, Irish and US medical schools (in fact the USMLE steps are recognized in Australia).

If you ask me, I think the NHS messed up big time with the entire system. They were fools to create such a stupid system. They hired so many international doctors and trained and some of the trained doctors were deported back to their countries, including those who were undergoing training. Imagine the kind of money these non-EU citizens spent just to apply for a training course. RIDICULOUS if you ask me.

Regarding Croatia, yes, it's the next country (along with 3 others) which are waiting in line to be part of the EU.

Unfortunately, a residency from any continental European country isn't recognized by US/Canada/Aus/NZ. They might just give a concession by letting you finish a couple of programs earlier, but you still have to reapply and do the whole thing over. I guess it makes sense as these countries are not English-speaking (in terms of the health care sector).

But if you can really get into Malta, I'd really recommend you to go for it. It's quite well recognized and you might get a better advantage when applying to UK in comparison to a UK grad who went to medical school in Poland of Czech Republic. Although my aunt told me that some of the Polish and the Czech doctors were excellent there (she's one of the recruiters to train graduates for her hospital). So if you had to chose between Malta and Romania or Malta and Croatia, Malta is the best choice. It's also a 5 year program which is nice and the studies are rather PBL-oriented.

[HaematoxylinEosin]

sheeeesh, that'S what I was expecting....it's ok :rolleyes:.
I know they don't take you after having finished residency in the States or Australia here either.
So I guess it's only fair.
Malta....it's awesome, almost know their website by heart.
I also called to figure out the price....:focus:
No, honestly, they were being very helpful & friendly, but it's simply just a little to much...lol

So, let's talk about 'poorer' countries...if you wnat to work somewhere in Africa, do you have to do residency over there?
How about India & South America?
Does anybody know? thanks in advance!!!

[devildoc8404]

Btw if you don't mind me asking, is the English medical program in Bulgaria similar to that of the Bulgarian one?

The programs are identical in length, coursework, and they are even taught by the same faculty -- well, at least by the profs who speak English!

I ask because I was thinking that you should try and apply for CA accreditation for your university.

We are. We requested the application form from the CA Med Board a couple of months back.

They usually accept but the primary requirement is that the English program should be similar to the program in the native language.

Yep, they are identical. But P.P. at the CA Med Board said that isn't the sole requirement, and that it could take up to a few years to review the program. (?!). Apparently the state government funding mess in CA is really slowing things down. At any rate, the Rectorate of the university is now working on the paperwork and hopefully, at some point, the school's English program will have CA approval. Unless they grandfather prior graduates in, however, that will make no difference for me and my current classmates.

It is a sort of time-consuming, but I think there's a good chance that it may be CA accredited (in fact the only reason our faculty got the accreditation was 'cause of a Charles grad who applied for it a long time back.) Just something to consider.


You're a good egg, shrey! =) Yeah, we are thinking along similar lines. It may not help us, but it could be a big difference maker for future students from the States who want to come to Bulgaria.

Hope you are well, and hang in there on the Pathology! You can do it...

[shrey]

sheeeesh, that'S what I was expecting....it's ok :rolleyes:.
I know they don't take you after having finished residency in the States or Australia here either.
So I guess it's only fair.
Malta....it's awesome, almost know their website by heart.
I also called to figure out the price....:focus:
No, honestly, they were being very helpful & friendly, but it's simply just a little to much...lol

So, let's talk about 'poorer' countries...if you wnat to work somewhere in Africa, do you have to do residency over there?
How about India & South America?
Does anybody know? thanks in advance!!!

LOL yes Malta's tuition is slightly on the higher side.

Regarding Africa, I don't think you would need to do your residency over there (with the exception of perhaps South Africa) although I'm not too sure on this. I think in Africa, India, and South America, as long as you're a qualified post-graduate, you can directly practice (although you might have to take licensing exams in these countries/continents).

@ devildoc - thanks man. Hope all goes well with you too. I just wish I got to the clinical segment of study...but I guess I just need to be more patient. Seriously though, Pathology SUCKS. If I saw Robbins and Cotran in the future, I really wouldn't mind giving them a piece of my mind regarding how they should have written two separate books - one for the medical students and the other for clinical pathologists. The profs. in Europe just don't seem to care whether it's used by clinical pathologists. The way they see it, as long as they read it (may be during med school or during their specialization), other s can do it too (including med students) and that's what pisses me quite a bit. Oh well, no point beating around the bush. I just have to suck it up and get used to it.