Getting into SABA, making the cut...

[ajd]

This is my first post here, although I have been a lurker for quite some time. I am at the point where I need some advice. I currently have my sights set on SABA as my first choice. It's one of the big 4, but the smaller class sizes are attractive to me and also, first and foremost, the lack of a requirement for the MCAT.

Currently, I possess 66 credits with a cGPA of 3.26 but I don't possess any of the prerequisites for SABA, although I am currently working on them. I plan to take CHEM, BIOL and ORG CHEM, which, with labs, will bring me to exactly 90 credits. The problem is, there isn't any room (or desire on my part) to take a whole year of physics and then take the MCAT.

What I am concerned about is applying to SABA with only 90 credits, no MCAT, and only the bare minimum prerequisite requirements (no physics, no math). If I end up with roughly a 3.2 to 3.3 GPA, what would my chances be of getting into SABA? My situation is a bit complex, basically I am 25 years old and I've been working F/T as an EMT for 3 years... all my schooling has been done part-time or through night school or distance education.

If I don't get into SABA I would consider MUA, but the last thing I want is to go to all the trouble of completing 90 credits, and then be told "MUA premed", because I would just go that route now if that's going to be the case... does anyone know what my chances would be? Thanks for the help...

[rokshana]

guy...you're a sophomore...use the remaining credits to finish the prerequites for med school, a US med school, take the mcats, get your degree and apply to US med schools...you still have a really good chance to get your GPA to a competitive level and have all the prereqs still to get all As and have a science GPA of 4.0...which will go a long way in getting into a US med school...

you are not some 19 or 20 year old who feels that everything should be now, now, now...you should be old enough to realize that sometimes spending the time to get things right is well worth that time...take the MCATs, complete your degree, go to a US school...the caribbean should be your last choice not your 1st...

[ajd]

guy...you're a sophomore...use the remaining credits to finish the prerequites for med school, a US med school, take the mcats, get your degree and apply to US med schools...you still have a really good chance to get your GPA to a competitive level and have all the prereqs still to get all As and have a science GPA of 4.0...which will go a long way in getting into a US med school...

you are not some 19 or 20 year old who feels that everything should be now, now, now...you should be old enough to realize that sometimes spending the time to get things right is well worth that time...take the MCATs, complete your degree, go to a US school...the caribbean should be your last choice not your 1st...

Hi Rokshana,

I appreciate the advice. It is definitely something I have considered. There are a few reasons I am considering the caribbean besides the lower admission requirements. These include cheaper tuition fees, and a 3 semester cycle which will allow me to complete the degree quicker. Trust me, at almost 25 years old, I have learned that there is "no rush for anything", that's why I have waited until I am 25, and have saved up enough money to go through medical school without requiring any loans... but at the same time, I don't want to be finishing my residency when I'm 40 years old - I want to have enough time to enjoy the medical profession without working until I'm 70.

To get into a CDN or US school, I would need to complete my degree, plus the prerequisites, which means approximately 83 more credits... (35 lower level credits, then 48 upper level for the degree). For me, completing 83 credits, plus taking the MCAT to get into a medical school, versus completing 36 credits and getting into a carribean school means the difference of about three years while working full-time. Further to that, I am not convinced I can get high enough marks to meet the requirement of most medical schools (3.7 to 3.8 gpa). I'm not against doing the MCAT, but if I can get in without doing it, then it saves me having to take two semesters of physics, possibly a math course, plus an MCAT prep course.

Lastly, I think going to the caribbean would actually be a great lifetime experience. Studying medicine in the states is alright, but studying it on a small island, with small class sizes and a great oceanview is something else entirely... there's downsides to everything, and either path I choose will be a challenge. The question I have asked myself, however, is am I ready for medical school, and the answer is "yes". Two or three years ago, I wasn't. When you're ready, you're ready... doing another 3-4 years of college could actually make me a worse physician in the end, as at some point, schooling becomes redundant and it's time to actually "get up and go".

All that being said, I've learned to never shut doors. Who knows, if I get good enough marks in my science courses I am currently taking, then perhaps it will motivate me to go for the MCAT and a canadian school, but I feel at this point I know myself pretty good and, without psyching myself out, I can safely say I think I will end up with either B+ or A-'s in most of these courses... getting an A+ or a 4.00 takes mastery of a subject and chemistry and biology have never come "naturally" to me. The amount of effort required also needs to be balanced. Sure, I could get an A+ in org chemistry, but it might take me months and months of studying... how do you value a grade versus time spent achieving it? What is better, spending 8 months for an A+, or spending 2 months for an A-?

[sgMD]

your situation and chances for admission is not predictable because 1) you have not taken your science courses yet, and hence no science gpa is known 2) you dont want to take the MCAT 3) you didn't specify whether you go to a reputable university, or a community college?

These are the 3 things that will get you into medical school... Saba cares about the school you attended.....I can't stress enough, they KNOW the level of difficulty of each school you attended and like to take students from those schools with the highest reputation (maybe another reason why their students did so well in matching this year)...

If you get straight A's in science courses, or even B+ish, you will be fine.... but science courses are sometimes very hard for some people to do well in them specially certain courses like OchemII... If you do well on your science courses, and attend a reputable universtiy and not a community college, you should get in with no MCATs.... but if you do bad in even one of the classes (say get a C+ in Ochem), then maybe they ask you to write the MCAT.... remember, Saba is gettin more competitive each year and more students apply there so...

And regarding US vs Carib schools, you mentioned that you would want to finish earlier and that if you attend US school it takes longer to graduate.....this is in fact not true in most of cases.... in most cases you finish your MD in 4years realistically.... you will have to take some time off in between etc to study for USMLEs and arrange your rotations etc, which eventually will make you graduate after 4 years.... I know of one guy who attended Saba and finished in 3.5years but he did all rotations back to back and moved all over US for rotations....

carib should be your 2nd choice.

[gumby]

ajd, no disrespect, but you are living in a fool's paradise. Expecting to gain admission to Saba, or any other respectable Caribbean medical school for that matter, without a bachelor degree or MCAT is silly. Even worse, your postings suggest that you don't want to work harder than you have to in order to get accepted to medical school. You have no idea what is in store for you if, and I stress if, you get accepted to ANY medical school. Use this time now to learn how to study and master any material presented to you. This is a necessary skill for medical students, residents, and one that is honed by physicians for the rest of their lives. You are picking a lifetime of learning by deciding to be a physician. Don't think you can shortcut it at any step. The MCAT is unbelievably easier than the USMLE. Man up and take it. Go to a US school and save yourself the hassles we face as Caribbean students.

[rokshana]

Hi Rokshana,

I appreciate the advice. It is definitely something I have considered. There are a few reasons I am considering the caribbean besides the lower admission requirements. These include cheaper tuition fees, and a 3 semester cycle which will allow me to complete the degree quicker. Trust me, at almost 25 years old, I have learned that there is "no rush for anything", that's why I have waited until I am 25, and have saved up enough money to go through medical school without requiring any loans... but at the same time, I don't want to be finishing my residency when I'm 40 years old - I want to have enough time to enjoy the medical profession without working until I'm 70.

To get into a CDN or US school, I would need to complete my degree, plus the prerequisites, which means approximately 83 more credits... (35 lower level credits, then 48 upper level for the degree). For me, completing 83 credits, plus taking the MCAT to get into a medical school, versus completing 36 credits and getting into a carribean school means the difference of about three years while working full-time. Further to that, I am not convinced I can get high enough marks to meet the requirement of most medical schools (3.7 to 3.8 gpa). I'm not against doing the MCAT, but if I can get in without doing it, then it saves me having to take two semesters of physics, possibly a math course, plus an MCAT prep course.

Lastly, I think going to the caribbean would actually be a great lifetime experience. Studying medicine in the states is alright, but studying it on a small island, with small class sizes and a great oceanview is something else entirely... there's downsides to everything, and either path I choose will be a challenge. The question I have asked myself, however, is am I ready for medical school, and the answer is "yes". Two or three years ago, I wasn't. When you're ready, you're ready... doing another 3-4 years of college could actually make me a worse physician in the end, as at some point, schooling becomes redundant and it's time to actually "get up and go".

All that being said, I've learned to never shut doors. Who knows, if I get good enough marks in my science courses I am currently taking, then perhaps it will motivate me to go for the MCAT and a canadian school, but I feel at this point I know myself pretty good and, without psyching myself out, I can safely say I think I will end up with either B+ or A-'s in most of these courses... getting an A+ or a 4.00 takes mastery of a subject and chemistry and biology have never come "naturally" to me. The amount of effort required also needs to be balanced. Sure, I could get an A+ in org chemistry, but it might take me months and months of studying... how do you value a grade versus time spent achieving it? What is better, spending 8 months for an A+, or spending 2 months for an A-?

if you are canadian, then, well things could be a bit different...i'll leave it up to the canadians here to give the appropriate advice about whether it is fesiable for you to still get into a CDN school or not, but if you are US then i still stand by my advice, the tangible and intangible advantages to being a USMD graduate are well worth the time commitment - yes even if its another 3 years- to get the US degree...your GPA is such with the amount of credits you still have to take that you could get your gpa in the 3.6-3.7 range...with a competitive MCAT, you would be competitive for a US school...

while they advertise the ablity to finish in 36 months, realistically that is the exception rather than the rule...it will, like the poster before me has stated, time between rotations, time to study for the steps, make the time from start to finish at least 4 years...and with the added expenses of traveling to the islands, living in the islands (most of the caribbean islands have a cost of living that rivals NYC), moving around for rotations...going to school in the caribbean usually is not the cheaper option...

and a "great experience" is not a reason to come to school in the caribbean...that type of experience can certainly be had by doing away electives in 3rd world countries and doing volunteer or mission work as a med student or resident....heck you can do locum tenens work abroad after you finish your residency.

do a search...you are not the 1st to consider all these points and others as well as myself say the same thing...you should exhaust all you options in the states (or canada) before contempalting comeing to the caribbean...yes it is a good option, but it should be the LAST (i'm not even going to say 2nd or 3rd...those should be exhausted as well)and frankly, only chance to get an MD degree.

3 more yrs and you are 28...start then and you will finsh by the time you are 32...3 more years and you are practicing by the time you are 35...you can still retire by 60!!!:D

[B_W_]

No one here is an admin. officer so no one can tell you if your stats are good or not. What I can say is that I contacted the office before I had all the prereqs and they said under no circumstances would they admit without them.
Honestly though, if you have questions about what your chances are, no one here can help you except to give the stats and circumstances that we got in with.

[BrendaB_MD]

I think you are setting yourself up for failure. Medical school is very demanding. Do yourself a favor and give yourself the best chance of succeeding by taking the prerequisites and demonstrating to yourself that you can handle a demanding load of boring material before your turn your life upside down and invest a small fortune in medical school. Believe me, medical school will be more demanding than anything else you have attempted academically. Historically, only about 50% of off-shore students make it to residency. I suspect this will get worse as competition for residency spots intensifies over the next few years. You want to enter this at the top of your game rather than by doing the bare minimum. Otherwise, you risk ending up as part of the significant group of off-shore med students with nothing but debt to show for their efforts.

Be patient. You get one shot at this. The schools will always be here. One more year will not make a huge difference in your career but it may have a significant impact on your chances for success in medical school.

There is no doubt that you will be able to find a school who will admit you with your current qualifications. Resist this temptation. An offer of admission to a carib school is NOT an endorsement of your ability to complete the program. Rather, it is an endorsement of your ability to pay. Thus, the onus is on you to determine if you are truly ready. You might succeed if you enter now; however, I think your odds of success will be significantly improved if you take your time, take the prerequisites, sit for the MCAT, etc.

[clumsy_gurl]

Ajd ! i know where u r coming from ! I am in the same shoes as yours ! I am trying to finish up my course work from CC ( i have all A's so far) but I have to take MCAT's because i m in CC ( it is a requirement). However, if you are taking classes at a university and getting good grades then there are good chances of u getting in without MCAT.
Good luck

[darkmansaad]

the only response i disagree with is the part that says the mcat is easier than usmle, i disagree. otherwise yeah ur out of your mind, you shoudlnt plan on going to the caribbean if you want to live on a beach and go to med school go to san diego or miami. In a few years us classes will increase as will total us med schools with residency spots staying static. At that point, Carib and IMG applications will be SHOT. Good luck getting in from schools that are not big international ones (Cambridge, Oxford, etc), Carib schools not in the Big 4, and not having above 95's on both steps (and thats for FM or IM, forget anything more competitive as american grads take all the spots). You seem to lack foresight regarding the future of medicine. Anyone considering the carib should think about this....ESPECIALLY if you plan on applying to a non big 4 school. The other reasons the posters cited are also important assuming this scenario never happens and since IT WILL HAPPEN they are even more correct. Get your mind right

Darkman out

[olek]

Enough had been said already. I'll add that senior med students stress that PDs seem to question a lack of undergrad degree when applying for residency.

[mario345]

the only response i disagree with is the part that says the mcat is easier than usmle, i disagree. otherwise yeah ur out of your mind, you shoudlnt plan on going to the caribbean if you want to live on a beach and go to med school go to san diego or miami. In a few years us classes will increase as will total us med schools with residency spots staying static. At that point, Carib and IMG applications will be SHOT. Good luck getting in from schools that are not big international ones (Cambridge, Oxford, etc), Carib schools not in the Big 4, and not having above 95's on both steps (and thats for FM or IM, forget anything more competitive as american grads take all the spots). You seem to lack foresight regarding the future of medicine. Anyone considering the carib should think about this....ESPECIALLY if you plan on applying to a non big 4 school. The other reasons the posters cited are also important assuming this scenario never happens and since IT WILL HAPPEN they are even more correct. Get your mind right

Darkman out

i am not keeping up with future policy changes in medical education, however, there are certain points I would like to bring up from what you said.
namely, the U.S. med school seats may increase, but in no way they are sufficient to fill the gap that IMGs do. that is precisely why every IM department is filled with indian residents. because there is a huge pool available which did not take quarter of a million dollars over 4 years to train, and are happy to go for primary care residencies.
the residency programs only care about the competency of the applicant because they are not the ones who pay off your loans.
there just isnt that huge of a applicant pool in states, and it is unlikely to increase substantially given how much it costs everyone - the student, the government, the hospitals. There is a huge difference between an FMG vs an american citizen who's a carib grad because of 2 yrs of U.S. hospital experience, language, as well, the fact that the hospital doesnt have to worry about visa issues.

secondly, residents are actually profitable for the hospital because for each resident, the government pays the hospital ~ a 165 K grant, of which a resident takes anywehere between 45 K to 60 K depending on his PGY level. the more residents a hospital has, the more they get and easier it is for the attendings who dont have to do scut work for themselves.
that is why residency spots have increased in each of the hospitals i have went to.

lastly, many specialty spots have increased the spots this year...anesthesiology did for sure...IM always does...FP and psych, those are always unfilled...

so, if you are from a carib school, with good scores, i.e. >95s, have worked hard during rotations and have decent LORS, plus have one or two research projects, and dont come off as a tool on your essay...you can definitely go for a competetive residency spot with confidence (minus derm, opth, ortho, rads)...pathology, surgery, anesth, and ER are very doable...as long as you apply to many places...
and primary care...IM, FP, psych, peds...that shouldnt be a problem