Mississippi Proposed Rule Change on licensing foreign medical grads

[azskeptic]

http://www.msbml.state.ms.us/regchanges/30.II.02.100.pdf

[jonasp]

Its odd that the states with the most rural communities that are in dire need of physicians are the quickest to adopt california's list.....Add another one to the list I guess.

[leadsled]

It's interesting that a State like Mississippi would not do their own research and make their own list. It sounds like the easy way out in the legislative process to adapt another states list and tag on its own piece of legislation. California is the most screwed up state in the union! i wouldn't trust jack from a state liike California. Mississippi Legislators must be lazy!

[azskeptic]

Small states don't have the money or trained staff to do it. note that the Caricom accreditation agency CAAM is another way for schools to meet it.

It's interesting that a State like Mississippi would not do their own research and make their own list. It sounds like the easy way out in the legislative process to adapt another states list and tag on its own piece of legislation. California is the most screwed up state in the union! i wouldn't trust jack from a state liike California. Mississippi Legislators must be lazy!

[jonasp]

Small states don't have the money or trained staff to do it. note that the Caricom accreditation agency CAAM is another way for schools to meet it.

Yes I saw this. Very interesting, thats the first time a state has given recognition to a caribbean agency.Perhaps this will start a trend.

[azskeptic]

Rule was enacted march 12, 2009 by the Board.

Yes I saw this. Very interesting, thats the first time a state has given recognition to a caribbean agency.Perhaps this will start a trend.

[DoctorJ]

what will happen to those who received a license before but med school isn't recognized by Ca?

[azskeptic]

Doesn't speak to that in the law but it would appear from my reading of it that if your school isn't California approved or CAAM approved Ms doesn't license. Contact the Board to verify your situation

MSBML Homepage (http://www.msbml.state.ms.us/)

what will happen to those who received a license before but med school isn't recognized by Ca?

[jonasp]

what will happen to those who received a license before but med school isn't recognized by Ca?

They are disapproved.I am sure those in residency in Mississippi from schools that are now affected will be grandfathered in but the rest are out of luck.

[azskeptic]

I'd check on it. It doesn't have any language that speaks to that

They are disapproved.I am sure those in residency in Mississippi from schools that are now affected will be grandfathered in but the rest are out of luck.

[Shiz77]

Ack first Oregon, then the match and now Mississippi. Non cali approved school owners must be shaking in their boots. Then again some of the schools might be calling an end to a decade of profit. Maybe that's why SMU hasn't applied for Cali and still rents their buildings, it's a temp operation :p

[jonasp]

I'd check on it. It doesn't have any language that speaks to that


Your right it should be checked on....but if a resident in miss. tries to fight this he will prob win its counterintuitive........then again so are a lot of these laws so yes it definitely needs to be checked.

[azskeptic]

Hmmm, if you check my postings since 2003 you'll see I predicted this but few believed it would come...the tightening of rules....you can't have pirates involved in medical education without the Navy sailing in...

Ack first Oregon, then the match and now Mississippi. Non cali approved school owners must be shaking in their boots. Then again some of the schools might be calling an end to a decade of profit. Maybe that's why SMU hasn't applied for Cali and still rents their buildings, it's a temp operation :p

[azskeptic]

http://www.msbml.state.ms.us/lil/req.PDF

[jonasp]

Sounds like you can do residency there if a program wants you...they just won't give you a full license after residency.

[MD4Now]

It sounds like it but this could change as well. Since the date of this paper is 2007 and the new licensure rules were 2009. So we clearly dont know. But i would agree with you that we can do residency there.

[jonasp]

Yeah that would be absurd that they allow you train in their state to become a full fledged physician and then say oh by the way...you can't get a license because you studied histology on an unapproved island. Would not be surprised in the least bit if no one on the miss. board thought about this.

[LqdPls]

When I called the medical board of Mississippi they were unable to tell me whether or not this ruling has anything to do with residency. But without any doubt, the ruling goes into effect Jul. 1st, 2009. After this date, anyone who graduates from a medical school that is not approved by either California or CAAM-HP will not be able to get licensed in the state of Mississippi. Furthermore, this ruling is not only groundbreaking, but it sets a very important precedent. A regional governing body has been established, and it appears that the state of Mississippi has recognized its authority as absolute.

BTW, I forgot to mention, straight from the horses mouth. If your school is either not approved or disapporved, but CAAM-HP gives you the stamp of approval, this will override Cali ruling in the state of Mississippi. Sounds almost too good to be true, so stay tuned. At the very least, the people who I talked to appeared slightly confused.

[med etudiant]

Interesting there is only 6 schools accredited by CAAM

[ol' man]

This ruling by Mississippi (I'm a resident of Mississippi) actually could help some of you. If other states look at this and see that Mississippi and Arkansas, the 2 most backward states in the US, cannot think for themselves, these other states may re-think their positions. Amazing that two states with the biggest shortage of doctors will let a state that can't even balance their budget make decisions for them...

[Caerus]

Could you please tell me which med schools are CAAM-HP approved. I wasn't able to find it on their site. Thanks.

[med etudiant]

Maybe CAAM will be the new gold standard?

[azskeptic]

CAAM-HP (http://www.caam-hp.org/assessed_schools.html)

Could you please tell me which med schools are CAAM-HP approved. I wasn't able to find it on their site. Thanks.

[nevisbutterfly]

http://www.msbml.state.ms.us/regchanges/30.II.02.100.pdf

I would be very scared to start medical school in the Caribbean these days. When I started the CA list included CA and a couple of other states I was not interested in - I had NO idea that so many states would adopt the CA list. I did check out my school at the time and CA was not a concern for me. The Boards can change things in a hearbeat that is just wrong.

http://www.valuemd.com/state-medical-licensing-information/173053-lawsuits-ca-list.html

[Aviv Imanuel]

You got it, saves money and they trust the source.



It's interesting that a State like Mississippi would not do their own research and make their own list. It sounds like the easy way out in the legislative process to adapt another states list and tag on its own piece of legislation. California is the most screwed up state in the union! i wouldn't trust jack from a state liike California. Mississippi Legislators must be lazy!

[Aviv Imanuel]

It happens in Texas too.


Sounds like you can do residency there if a program wants you...they just won't give you a full license after residency.

[Aviv Imanuel]

No it is not wrong, it seems wrong when you are affected, and in the absence of a National License, each state can make rules on their own as they please. Actually a state can go as licensing only US Graduates, like in the case of Optometry. So, it can get worse if we consider it closely.







http://www.msbml.state.ms.us/regchanges/30.II.02.100.pdf

I would be very scared to start medical school in the Caribbean these days. When I started the CA list included CA and a couple of other states I was not interested in - I had NO idea that so many states would adopt the CA list. I did check out my school at the time and CA was not a concern for me. The Boards can change things in a hearbeat that is just wrong.

http://www.valuemd.com/state-medical-licensing-information/173053-lawsuits-ca-list.html

[Aviv Imanuel]

I remember that, touche mate, touche. I concede on it. I remember you making FSMB presentations about it too.;)


Hmmm, if you check my postings since 2003 you'll see I predicted this but few believed it would come...the tightening of rules....you can't have pirates involved in medical education without the Navy sailing in...

[jonasp]

It happens in Texas too.

Yeah both situations make no sense.We will pay you to work for our state for X amount of years while we train you to become a competent independant physician in your chosen field, and when your done you can never work in our state because well......your incompetent.Again I have no problems with states adopting california or becoming stricter in the way they handle this situation but use a little logic when coming up with rules.

[Aviv Imanuel]

That I agree, it does not make sense. If a state does not want IMG's from non-CA approved schools, then do not let them do residency either. It's a slap in the face.

Yeah both situations make no sense.We will pay you to work for our state for X amount of years while we train you to become a competent independant physician in your chosen field, and when your done you can never work in our state because well......your incompetent.Again I have no problems with states adopting california or becoming stricter in the way they handle this situation but use a little logic when coming up with rules.

[LqdPls]

You got it, saves money and they trust the source.

Saves money for whom? Schools pay out of their pocket for all site visits, and administrative costs that precede and follow.

[LqdPls]

It happens in Texas too.

Actually Texas has released the death grip on their rules slightly. You can do residency in Texas, and if you come from a school that is either disapproved or not approved in another state and you want a state license, you are dealt with on a case by case basis.

[Aviv Imanuel]

Trust me on this one, it saves them money. Bear in mind a mere school visit is what, avg. $50k? And you need a minimum staff of at least 3 regular employees, plus their benefits, etc. It is not as simple as you think. And not a lot of schools want to risk the chance of paying and being turned down, ask SMU. Administration.

Saves money for whom? Schools pay out of their pocket for all site visits, and administrative costs that precede and follow.

[Aviv Imanuel]

I know pretty well the ins and outs of Texas, the so called case by case means this..."we gave a chance to have a hearing, and we therefore deny you". They want to save face with due process. Anyone that does not want to believe it, try them. I have seen a couple of these cases already, and it is very frustrating dealing with the Lone Star State Medical Board.




Actually Texas has released the death grip on their rules slightly. You can do residency in Texas, and if you come from a school that is either disapproved or not approved in another state and you want a state license, you are dealt with on a case by case basis.

[bstone]

This is very interesting. I have to comment a few things, tho...

After Katrina I was down in Hancock Co MS where I built a ran a tent-based medical clinic (the local hospital had been sacked and there was no medical help for almost 40 miles). I was having docs from across the US come in and volunteer for a week or so. The MS Med Board had enacted a quick rule saying if you are licensed ANYWHERE in the US you simply fill out a 1 page form and they would grant you a temporary unrestricted medical license in MS. I had every volunteer doc do that. They didn't check schools or board certs, but only that you had a license in another state.

If another Katrina comes (is likely) and myself or similar person runs such a volunteer clinic then it might just be possible for a Caribbean grad from a non-CA and non-CAAM HP school to get a temporary unrestricted license in MS for a few months and tend to people when they are in desperate need, but not be allowed to tend to them when things are "running smoothly".

[jonasp]

This is very interesting. I have to comment a few things, tho...

After Katrina I was down in Hancock Co MS where I built a ran a tent-based medical clinic (the local hospital had been sacked and there was no medical help for almost 40 miles). I was having docs from across the US come in and volunteer for a week or so. The MS Med Board had enacted a quick rule saying if you are licensed ANYWHERE in the US you simply fill out a 1 page form and they would grant you a temporary unrestricted medical license in MS. I had every volunteer doc do that. They didn't check schools or board certs, but only that you had a license in another state.

If another Katrina comes (is likely) and myself or similar person runs such a volunteer clinic then it might just be possible for a Caribbean grad from a non-CA and non-CAAM HP school to get a temporary unrestricted license in MS for a few months and tend to people when they are in desperate need, but not be allowed to tend to them when things are "running smoothly".

MS and other states have a dire need for physicians, completely blacklisting people from ever coming into your state no matter what, is counterproductive. I understand the need for regulation but there is a fine line between scrutinizing someone's credentials and banishment of a whole group of people.

[LqdPls]

If another Katrina comes (is likely) and myself or similar person runs such a volunteer clinic then it might just be possible for a Caribbean grad from a non-CA and non-CAAM HP school to get a temporary unrestricted license in MS for a few months and tend to people when they are in desperate need, but not be allowed to tend to them when things are "running smoothly".

Makes perfect sense

[bstone]

MS and other states have a dire need for physicians, completely blacklisting people from ever coming into your state no matter what, is counterproductive. I understand the need for regulation but there is a fine line between scrutinizing someone's credentials and banishment of a whole group of people.

Doesn't make much sense. Or any. At all.

[PediDoc2013]

My thoughts exactly. I know that in Arkansas, all but two or possibly three counties are medically underserved. However, in researching the members of the state medical board, the majority of them got their MD and did their residency at UAMS, and apparently want to keep that monopoly, no matter the cost to state residents.

Its odd that the states with the most rural communities that are in dire need of physicians are the quickest to adopt california's list.....Add another one to the list I guess.

[jonasp]

My thoughts exactly. I know that in Arkansas, all but two or possibly three counties are medically underserved. However, in researching the members of the state medical board, the majority of them got their MD and did their residency at UAMS, and apparently want to keep that monopoly, no matter the cost to state residents.

The reason is mostly ignorance. The state med boards don't know St. George's from MUA from Hamburger university let alone the ramifications of what they are doing.All they know is this law supposedly keeps "the bad men" away. Its like passing any other regulation law.The carib schools will need either to establish a quality regulation agency or pass California's inspection. Its too hard to fight this any other way. Its like like yelling at deaf ears.

[Aviv Imanuel]

These are regulations passed by folks who are EXTREMELY prejudiced and fail to see and recognize that there is a weed out system in place, not perfect but it has shown to work... The ECFMG. That in mind, you got the point...."The carib schools will need either to establish a quality regulation agency or pass California's inspection. Its too hard to fight this any other way. Its like like yelling at deaf ears."

Unfortunately some school administrators cant see the writting on the wall. It won't stop, it will end up being a snow ball effect. Unfortunately.







The reason is mostly ignorance. The state med boards don't know St. George's from MUA from Hamburger university let alone the ramifications of what they are doing.All they know is this law supposedly keeps "the bad men" away. Its like passing any other regulation law.The carib schools will need either to establish a quality regulation agency or pass California's inspection. Its too hard to fight this any other way. Its like like yelling at deaf ears.

[jonasp]

These are regulations passed by folks who are EXTREMELY prejudiced and fail to see and recognize that there is a weed out system in place, not perfect but it has shown to work... The ECFMG. That in mind, you got the point...."The carib schools will need either to establish a quality regulation agency or pass California's inspection. Its too hard to fight this any other way. Its like like yelling at deaf ears."

Unfortunately some school administrators cant see the writting on the wall. It won't stop, it will end up being a snow ball effect. Unfortunately.

I think most admins see the writing on the wall they just gotta be careful, They can't afford to be disapproved. Not to mention it costs a small fortune to bring in california for the visit.

[Aviv Imanuel]

True, it does cost a small fortune in the amount of 60k. But that leads us to another important topic, one of the things that CA looks for is also the financial viability of the schools.


I think most admins see the writing on the wall they just gotta be careful, They can't afford to be disapproved. Not to mention it costs a small fortune to bring in california for the visit.

[jonasp]

True, it does cost a small fortune in the amount of 60k. But that leads us to another important topic, one of the things that CA looks for is also the financial viability of the schools.

Yes, but the point is no one should want to spend 60k unless they are confident they will get approved.Wasting money is one of the many reasons a school needs to be careful before inviting California for a site visit.

[Aviv Imanuel]

Just think about it for a second...60k for a well established school program is just a drop in the bucket. Any school that does not have that money to spare in something of such importance has simply financial issues, and you don't want to graduate from a school with financial issues since that portion, (finances) plays a role in the CA approval process. It can be interpreted as a red flag.

if you check in the CAMB website you will find what they are looking for in a school program in terms of criteria.

Good luck!

Yes, but the point is no one should want to spend 60k unless they are confident they will get approved.Wasting money is one of the many reasons a school needs to be careful before inviting California for a site visit.

[jonasp]

Just think about it for a second...60k for a well established school program is just a drop in the bucket. Any school that does not have that money to spare in something of such importance has simply financial issues, and you don't want to graduate from a school with financial issues since that portion, (finances) plays a role in the CA approval process. It can be interpreted as a red flag.

if you check in the CAMB website you will find what they are looking for in a school program in terms of criteria.

Good luck!

I understand that and the schools who are realistically looking for california inspection are not short of cash thats for sure, the point is no one should pay a dime if they aren't confident they will pass the inspection. The usmle is around 700 bucks for step 1 and ck and 1200 for cs if your an IMG. Aside from the numerous reasons you should not take the steps unprepared, throwing 700 bucks down the toilet whether or not you can afford it is a waste of money.I know smu wasn't too happy when they lost their 65k after thinking they would be approved. It wasn't solely the money-they have plenty of it, it was the totality of the disaster that happens when you get disapproved.

[corpsman]

News, come and get it!!! The executive director of the MSBML is in full support for the D.O. school they are planning to open soon. It's hard to fill all those seats if you have people from good ole missip running off to the caribbean. I was actually asked on the phone with him today, why i went to a carib school and did not go to a D.O. school instead. That's the only reason I started digging for information on it. I think somebody has some money invested???

[corpsman]

Gotta love politics

[RussianJoo]

News, come and get it!!! The executive director of the MSBML is in full support for the D.O. school they are planning to open soon. It's hard to fill all those seats if you have people from good ole missip running off to the caribbean. I was actually asked on the phone with him today, why i went to a carib school and did not go to a D.O. school instead. That's the only reason I started digging for information on it. I think somebody has some money invested???


I think this is the trend for the future. keep american doctors trained/taught in america.

[Aviv Imanuel]

Thye have sort of done that with Dentistry;)



I think this is the trend for the future. keep american doctors trained/taught in america.

[RussianJoo]

i guess the more reason to go to DO schools and not carib MD schools.

[Aviv Imanuel]

In all honesty, if the plans are to practice in the USA and not anywhere else, and your stats are good and were not acepted in an ordinary US M.D. program, go D.O. I just don't see the stigma or big deal about it.




i guess the more reason to go to DO schools and not carib MD schools.

[MDXRS22]

Another one bites the dust. This story will never end